From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - The Spiritual Battle Of America

Episode Date: May 12, 2022

This week, Sean and Rachel sit down with New York Times best-selling author and host of The Eric Metaxas Show Eric Metaxas to discuss the religious implications behind the possible overturn of Roe v. Wade. Eric claims that the issue is not one of women's rights, but is actually a war on God and religion as people living in a secular world believe He is a threat to personal autonomy. Eric later says that he is hopeful that revival is coming to America and faith will eventually make a comeback. Follow Sean and Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We'd love to talk business. 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardins today. We'd love to talk business. Everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm your host, Sean Duffy, along with my co-host for the podcast, but also my co-host and partner in life, Rachel Campos Duffy. Thank you, Sean. It's so good to be back at our kitchen table with everyone who's joining us because we have an amazing guest this episode. And I have to say that you and I, we love watching Tucker Carlson. We heard a monologue of his earlier in the week. And we're like, this is what we've been talking

about. And we need to explore this further. And the first person who came to our mind on discussing the spiritual battle that our country is in, that this really isn't about abortion and inflation and the border. This, what we are going through right now, this moment is a spiritual battle. And of course, we thought about Eric Metaxas, who of course is the bestselling author, New York Times bestselling author of so many books, including one of my favorite, Bonhoeffer, and also the host

of a syndicated radio show called the Eric Metaxas Radio Show, which, by the way, it's just it's just in like 120 cities around the country. So anyway, we're so happy to have you, Eric. Thanks for joining us this morning. Hey, I am honored. Thanks for thinking of me. Yeah. You know, it was interesting because Tucker was talking about, you know, this abortion bill. This this it just failed as we as we heard yesterday. But this abortion bill that came up didn't actually refer to women. It talked about, you know, pronouns and and, you know, again, more of this transgender language. And so what basically Tucker Carlson was saying is, look, this is all the proof you need that this really isn't about women's rights. And I've always thought, Eric, that the women's movement was an abortion movement masquerading

as a woman's movement. But actually, what was fascinating is that Tucker was saying, no, no, this is a war against God. Okay, that is the whole point. And isn't it wonderful that things have gotten so bad, so insane,

that even people like Tucker Carlson are willing to see and to say publicly what is really going on. It is, I mean, he's not known, you know, to be some big religious conservative, but he is a man of truth. And he is a man, he looks at the situation just like any of us. And you just say, listen, I know I'm not crazy. In fact, if you don't think what's going on is crazy, you're crazy. The only way you know you're sane is knowing that all of this madness is madness. And that at the heart of it, it's like algebra, you solve for X. If you're honest, it is a war against God. And I really think many Americans are waking up

to this. They're saying, you know what? I didn't, I wasn't going to go there, but the other side has gone so far, so dramatically, so quickly. It really seems like evil. It really seems like they have a desire to rip apart God's reality, whether it is male and female, babies in the womb. It's a kind of madness. And I think sane people are concluding, like Tucker, this is at its heart a war against God. So thank you for teeing that up. So Eric, as I try to navigate, what is the motivating factor behind people? And you lay it out, and Rachel has, and Tucker has. It's a war on God. It's a war on faith.

But if you look at, you know, whether it was this transgender movement, whether it was gay marriage, whether it was abortion, even socialism and communism, the church, people of faith have stood up and pushed back against those ideas. So is it that people of faith are opposed to the liberal socialist agenda? Or is it something else that it actually is a war on God? Anything that people of faith believe in, any issue that says, you know, if we can attack God, we can accomplish our agenda. Is it about the, is it about the policy or is it about God? You understand? Well, yeah. I mean, I, I think to be honest, it's about both. The reason I say that is that let's

be honest. We have friends with whom we totally disagree on these issues. And we know that they are not consciously at war with God. Now, there are some people that have given themselves over to this demonic rage. You can see it. It's a rage. You think, what is that? Those people have given themselves over to something. But there are other people for whom it is about policy. They say, well, we want to keep women safe. We have to keep abortions legal. They really believe that. So it's a continuum. The question is, what is it at its heart? Some people are aware of what it is. Most people are not aware of what it is. On this podcast, we can say what we believe it is and what I know that it is. It is a war against God. It's a rage against God. But it doesn't express itself in those terms, except rarely.

When you see the unbridled animus against the host, against the church, against it, when you see that, you say, you know what? This doesn't look like atheism. This looks satanic. Why are these so violently angry about people in America expressing their views? Maybe those views are different than yours, but where does this rage come from? I actually wrote a book. It's my most recent book. It's called Is Atheism Dead? And I talk, it's actually a tremendously encouraging. Is atheism dead? Yes. In other words, I think what I did in the book, there's a reason I'm bringing this up other than I want people to read my book. It's called Is

Atheism Dead? Because in 1966, Time magazine had the famous cover story, Is God Dead? Right. And it kind of implied that all the smart people and the scientists know that science is kind of pushing God and faith out. And the more science we know, the less we need God. This is the narrative we've all grown up with. It's the secular narrative. And the reason I wrote the book, Is Atheism Dead, was because I said, as somebody who has written other books about this, and I look about this, look into these subjects. I said, the evidence for God from science has become overwhelming. It is the greatest irony of 50 years. Science continues to point to God, but most

Christians have no clue about it. Like you're not hearing about it in the secular media, even in churches, most people aren't aware of it. So I said, I've got to put this into a book because the evidence is so strong. It's so crazy that the only question you could really now ask is, is atheism dead? And by saying that, I don't mean are people going to declare themselves as atheists. People will, there are people out there who are flat earthers. You know, are going to declare themselves as atheists. There are people out there who are flat earthers. They don't care about what the facts are. But realistically speaking, we've come to a time when it seems clear to me that atheism as an intellectual possibility, and I won't go into it for time, but that it really is dead. And so kind of what's happening is you're seeing a rawness because there's like a desperation on the other side that as the evidence from science.

Now, look, we could talk about science and the unborn. My wife ran a pregnancy center in New York for 12 years. I know that the better science gets, the more clear it is to everybody that what is in the mommy's tummy is not a comp of cells. It is more and more and more obvious that it's my brother, my little brother, my little sister. Everybody knows this. We know that the DNA, you know, science now knows that, oh, yes, by the way, it's not your body. It's another human being. So science keeps pointing away from this secular angry narrative. And I think people get angrier and angry. The anger comes out more because they can't kind of play games anymore. They can't play head games. But finally, in the book is atheism that I deal with atheism itself.

And this is why I'm bringing this up. At the end of the day, we've had enough time to look at atheism, to look at countries that have enforced atheism, to look at people who have tried to live as atheists. And what comes out, and this is what's kind of creepy, is that there was a time when you could say, well, atheism is neutral. It just doesn't believe in God. It doesn't believe in religion. It's neutral somehow. What we're seeing more and more is that those people who embrace that worldview, that there is no God, they really are at war with God. They are not really believing, oh, there's no God and hey, everything's cool. No, they realize that the whole concept of God is a threat to my personal autonomy. It's a threat. Who do you

think you are to tell me that you created me and that I owe you something? I owe you my life. I owe nobody anything. It's like this satanic rage that you get. John Milton's Paradise lost, you know, the figure of Satan. He says, better to reign in hell than serve in heaven. There's this kind of Reign in hell, then serve in heaven. There's this kind of rage. Now, look, when I say this, you guys know, as Christians, we know we're all fallen. We're all broken. We're all sinful.

It's only God and his mercy that calls us into a relationship with himself. So we all have this in us. The question is, do we give in to that prideful rage, which is scary and ugly? Or do we say, okay, Lord, I guess you're real. Help me understand who you are. So to me, the battle lines are becoming clearer and clearer and clearer. And what we're seeing right now, you see this over and over and over again, the left, the secular folks overplay their hands so dramatically that your average American with common sense says, hey, hey, hey, wait a minute. You don't go like with a mob to Alito's home or to Kavanaugh's home. That's not the American way. You guys are acting like you're scared of the truth and like you're going to do anything

like the old racists would would lynch the black man because they didn't trust that the judge would do it. So they're going to do it themselves. We have come to that place. And in a way, it's a good thing because it's clarifying to most Americans who are the good guys, who are the bad guys, who believes in the rule of law and who doesn't believe in anything except getting their way. That's where we are. Yeah, it is so interesting that the lines are becoming more and more clear. We'll be back with much more after this. You've always wanted to be part of something bigger than yourself. You live for experience and lead by example. You want the most out of life and realize what you're looking for

is already in you. This is for you. The Canadian Armed Forces, a message from the Government of Canada. It's fascinating when you think about this war on god i mean it is the original sin right the original sin in the garden of eden with this with the devil right the fallen angel was they wanted to be god exactly so many ways i mean abortion is about wanting to be god right like you're you're being pregnant and i've done it many times um you know there's a loss of control of your body. You know what I mean? Like you do, like, let's be honest. I mean, your body, you know, you're hosting another human in there and, and it makes you tired and it makes you, you know, sometimes it makes you throw up and, you know, there's lots of things that happen and that lack of control and that surrendering

is part of the process. But the other thing that I found interesting, because you talk about this rage, and there is, and I totally agree with your analysis, by the way, that there is this rage against God, this rage against, this pride, right? That, you know, they don't want to submit to God. But I also have seen, especially among a lot of women that I see in either at the universities, liberal women and many of their their protests and in the abortion movement. I see a lot of pain because ultimately, I think that that lifestyle that you said that, you know, that atheist lifestyle that, you know, it's not neutral. It actually does not bring about happiness. And I feel like there's a lot of fatherlessness pain. Oh, absolutely.

There's an epidemic of childhood trauma from the fact that we have literally destroyed the whole notion of childhood and the protection that we all used to understand under the family unit. Oh, look, you are absolutely correct. You are dead on. And listen, I say this publicly. I wrote about it in my previous book, my memoir, Fish Out of Water. When I was in my early 20s, not a believer, confused, graduated Yale. What do you do when your girlfriend gets pregnant and says, I'm going to have it taken care of? You say, well, of course you are. That's what everybody does. Thanks a lot. Can I help you? You want me to drive you? No. Okay. That's what everyone does. I did it. Okay. So the question is, if you do a thing like that, can you live with yourself knowing that you've done something wicked, unless you know that there

is a God who wants to forgive you, to embrace you, to heal you of what you did. And a lot of these women, they are in such pain over what they did, but they can't admit it to themselves because they don't know that there is a God who wants to embrace them, love them, heal them. If you don't know that that God is there, you have to reject the very idea that what you did could ever be anything except empowering and wonderful. And you have to scream that because the pain is too much. And so my heart goes out to these women because I know, I know that if you live in a secular world, you can't possibly admit that you did the wrong thing there. It's too painful basically. And also let's be honest, men have been selfish jerks. They've been taking advantage of women.

Women have gone along with this and participated in their own destruction and wounding. We are living in a sick world that has rejected God. This is the fruit of it. And no wonder many of these women are enraged at men because they have lived with men who really are toxic. They don't love you. They love what they can get from you when they can get it, but they're not willing to walk with you into old age and to hold your hand through the decades. They don't want that. They don't love you. And this is kind of the bigger conversation. Yeah. Can I, Sean, can I just say one more thing? I know we want to jump in, but so, cause I want to, I want us to play this clip. Eric, did you ever see Busy Phillips, the actress, give a speech on abortion during one of the women's marches?

I think I saw it a long time ago. I don't remember it, but I know what you're talking about in it. She basically says, I mean, the rage that came out of her, it was it it was both painful and almost demonic. And she was like, I would not have my car. I would not have this beautiful house. I would not have I mean, and she was screaming in a way that was so disturbing. It was literally of all the things I've seen around the abortion movement. There was nothing more disturbing to me than her speech that someone should die so she could have a nice, you know, car and a nice house. But when she was saying it, there was no joy in it. There was rage. And clearly, you know, this was a woman who felt like a trapped animal, probably when she did this and now is trying to use these material goods to justify and somehow help her deal with the pain. of it because, because, because I was allowed bodily autonomy at 15.

I just, I think we all have to, we have to be honest. There's pain. My heart breaks for that woman and for all the women who are coming from that place. We need to embrace them with love. I'm not going to say what they did wasn't wrong because I participated in the same thing and I know it's wrong, but the difference is I know that there's a God who loves me and who wants to forgive and bring total healing to these women and to show them how much he loves them and the life that he has for them. If they could get a glimpse of that, I think they would let go of this narrative and give God a chance in their lives. So I think it's just, I'm glad you played it. Eric, so you might say some people can stumble into their faith.

Some people can stumble into God or God will stumble into them as he's always trying to bring us into his fold as his children. for us that her son made, or Our Lady of Guadalupe, where Mary comes and basically transforms Mexico, and she is Our Lady of the Americas. That has happened in history, but what concerns me today is that we normally pass our faith, our religion, our knowledge of God from parents to children. And when Rachel and I go to church, we have a lot of kids. Sometimes some people might call us a clown show as we go to church. And sometimes because of our schedules, we become Roman Catholics. We don't always go to the same mass on Sunday. So we see a lot of different churches because we have to go to one that fits our schedule. I'm giving you too much information there.

But when we go, there's a lot of old people. There's not a lot of young families that are going to church anymore. And then I look at what's being taught, even in Christian families, when they send their kids off to a university, they come back with these leftist, atheist ideas, or even if they don't go to college, Eric, what they're getting on social media, which they spend so much time, it's such a rot of society, social media for our kids, that this war of saying, does God remain in our culture? Do we keep him alive and well and the values and the goodness that come from God and from our faith? Does that stay alive?

And if it does, how so? I mean, how do we prevail as believers and as parents in making sure we're passing this off to the next generation because if i look at it as a whole i get depressed sometimes i'm like i think we're losing i don't think even because it comes back to this principle too parents are concerned about presidential races and senate races and governor's races. The most important thing that we can do in anything that we touch is raise good kids, raise them in the faith, raise them to know God is the greatest job that we do because, one, it preserves our culture and helps save our kids and get them to heaven.

And I have more power with my kids than I do with anything else that I touch in my life. Well, look, you are singing my song, brother. Let me tell you something. All the books that I write, my radio and TV stuff, everything that I do is calculated to deal with exactly what you brought up. We are living now in a culture that is at war with everything we believe in. We talk about a war on God like it's abstract. It's at war with you as parents. It wants to steal your children, if not literally, then ideologically. These are facts.

Now, if people don't want to wake up to this, that's on them. They're part of the problem. We need to wake up to this. Many of us need to homeschool our kids, put our kids in a classical Christian school, put your kids in a place where they are not getting poisoned every day, okay? Some Catholic schools are the answer. You both, and I know some Catholic schools are practically pathetic. You need to take your kids and put them in a place where they're at least not getting poisoned, where they're not getting a message that, hey, don't listen to your parents. I mean, that's how bad it is. But honestly, I mean, look, I will get a plug in. My website is just ericmataxis.com. And once or twice a week, I will send out

my interviews, the videos that I do. I talk to people all across the spectrum on all of this kind of stuff, because I know that it's hard to get good information out there. You're like, where do I look? What do I, what do I, you know, if I turn on the TV, it's going to be all about politics, politics, but that's, that's fine, but it's not everything. We need so much more in all these directions. And I say, all the books that I've written are calculated to feed people, to give them hope, because I'll tell you the truth, knowing that things are bad is the first step to doing something about it. If you don't know that things are going insane, you're just going to kind of keep going with the flow. And going with the flow is what got us into this mess. We have leaders

that are pretending to be, I mean, look, we have leaders that they say they're Catholics. Can I tell you something? The Marquis de Sade and Hitler were more Catholic than some of the leaders that we talk about. Oh, there's so-and-so is a Catholic. This is a mockery of faith. It is a mockery of faith. And God bless the handful of bishops that are speaking out against these liars who are leading millions astray by thinking that I can be a Catholic Christian and be pro-abortion? Why not be pro-devil? Why stop at abortion? What in the world makes you able to call yourself a faithful Catholic? And you are advocating for some of the most wicked things we've ever seen. So people need to wake up. People

need to take action. And there's a handful of us who are, we're doing everything we can. And all I can tell you is the Lord is with us. This is not about, Hey, you know, it's we're, we're in this battle and let us not forget whose battle it is. It's the Lord's battle. It's only the Lord who has allowed us to walk with him in this battle and to fight on his battle flag. We don't deserve to be here, but we're here and the Lord is doing it. I firmly believe that because of the horrors that have been unleashed, the overturning of Roe v. Wade is we're just seeing this like demonic rage and people just throwing away the rule of law, throwing away any civility, whatever. I think the people in the middle are waking up.

And I really think that it is because of this and all the other craziness, the transgender looniness and the cultural Marxism that's everywhere and the BLM and the critical race theory. All of this stuff, I think, makes your average American say, you know what? I've been missing it. This stuff is crazy. I'm going to go over here. Who are these people? Oh, they believe in God. They go to church. They seem sane. I think maybe I'm going to see what they have to say. I really am deeply hopeful that revival is coming to America and that we're going to have reformation in the sense that people are going to start realizing like my faith is not a little thing that I do, you know, on Sunday morning, it affects everything. It's going to affect our laws. It's going to affect our schools. It's going to affect media and entertainment. It has to, because we have let it be this little private

thing and it's not, it is meant to be our whole lives. So I am deeply hopeful, but we have to understand we are in a war right now and we have to fight and we have to look to the Lord for strength. Otherwise, we have no strength. You know, Eric, that's such a hopeful message. I love it. It is. And they're at war with us. Right. And I was in Congress for nine years. And what I see is that a lot of Republicans and a lot of Americans don't understand that they're in a war where this other side wants to destroy you. They can't exist with us in their world. Correct.

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Visit Ancestry.ca to start your journey today. Offer ends December 3rd. Terms apply. Did you ever see the bumper sticker? I mention this all the time, but the bumper sticker that I'll see on a Subaru and it says coexist with all the different symbols. They do not want to coexist with you. There is no coexisting. There is no getting along. It's about destroying everything that you believe in every every inch of our soul that knows that we came from god um and the faith that we have they need to destroy to live in their in quotes utopia and i don't think a lot of christians understand that again they're good they're good

people they're like listen i if i don't agree with you right you're you. They're good people. They like, listen, I, I don't agree with you, right? You're, you're, you're misguided. You're going down the wrong path, but I, you know, and well, and listen, I'll, I'll try to, I'll try to help save you if you, you know, if you want a lifeline, but I'm going to live my life. Well, that's not the way the world's working right now. They are not going to allow you to live your life and have your faith and have God in your life and in our culture and in our government. They can't, they're not. And again, I think once we acknowledge, hey, this is the problem, they're at war with you, we should probably fight back and push back. We might

be better off and maybe have a chance at winning because again, there's going to be a winner and a loser, I think. There's no middle ground. And I hate to say that. But again, when one side wants to destroy you, I don't know how you fight the peace. You are. You're absolutely right. Here's here's why we're at a great moment. OK, my parents, my dad, I wrote about this in my memoir about coming to faith. It's called Fish Out of Water. My mother grew up in East Germany, communist. fish out of water. My mother grew up in East Germany, communist. My father grew up in Greece. The communists tried to take over Greece. Okay. They taught me to love America because they knew how evil, evil is. In other words, evil is not, oh, my, my stocks aren't doing so well. And, and we know the car, we can't afford to fix the car. No, no, no. They knew that if you let these ideas take over, it is going to bring you to a place that you cannot

imagine how horrible it is. Most Americans don't realize we're getting a glimpse of it now, but the evilness of evil, if we don't fight against this, it hates everything that we love. So this is not like Democrats and Republicans, like it's been through the decades. No, there's been a clarification. And I think people are seeing that when you see a bumper sticker like coexist, it is a bald lie. It doesn't want to coexist. It wants to crush you out of existence. In my Bonhoeffer book, I talk about the story in Germany. The German church didn't see this coming. The German church was kind of like, hey, you know, we'll get through this. Everything's cool. No, the ideas of the Nazis, they are at war with God and with the people of God. Are they going to say it? Of course not. They need to accrue power until they have enough power to say what they want. They're not going to, they're going to pretend to be friendly to God. They're going to say we're Catholics or we're Christians. They're going

to say whatever they need to say to lie, but their enemy is everything that is beautiful and true and good, but they're just not going to say it. We're at a moment like that in America. And it's only because my parents grew up in these places that they trained me and loved me in a way that I saw how precious what we have is in this country, religious liberty in this country, that those of us who love God and say we're Christians, we don't want to kill Muslims and atheists. We believe in religious liberty. Those are our values. Okay, well, what if you don't believe in any of that? What are your values? Why wouldn't you want to crush your enemy? If you're an atheist, you believe there's no God. Why wouldn't you want to crush

your enemy? You don't believe in good and evil and what that's just blather. You believe in winning. You believe in doing what Kim Jong-un and the Chinese Communist Party want to do is that they're going to demonize and destroy their enemies. That's their value system. And we're seeing a clarification. And as I say, I talk about this kind of stuff all the time, whether it's in my books or my radio show, because I realize it is becoming clearer and people are waking up. I am I am I am genuinely hopeful. I don't say that just to say it. I am genuinely hopeful. Me, too.

You know what? I think the first sign of it for me, this this removing of the mask. Right. So you said they cover themselves up. You saw Barack Obama, Eric, you know, you know, pretending like he wasn't a socialist. And when he said spread the wealth, you know, he tried to reel that back and the media helped him reel it back. But then came AOC and she pulled the mask off and she was out and proud. And, you know, and and and everyone else looked around on her side and was like, oh, well, we got to be take our masks off, too. They all took their masks off.

We all know exactly who they are. And it's not just them. It's much bigger. This is global. And this is, you know, these globalists, these these, you know, titans of the universe who, you know, look at the CCP and the Chinese government and see, you know, a model for us, you know, and as opposed to the evil that we see when we look at them. So this is a very, very huge thing. I agree with you. There's hope a because they took their masks off. I think there's hope for what you said before, that this is not ultimately our battle. This is theirs. But it is scary because because they don't believe in eternal life, because they think this is the end, they fight different. And we've been really nice and we've been really nice and we've been really accommodating. And Christians like to be that way because that's kind of who we are. But it's time to play for keeps. And I think that, you know, you have written not just and talked about Donald Trump, but you've also written children's books for Donald Trump about

Donald Trump. This the Donald Trump moment was about somebody so unexpected, shaking up the Christian world to go, hey, it's time to fight. That's that's the beauty of it. I mean, honestly, you know, I keep talking about my books. I have a book coming out in the fall called Letter to the American Church, where I deal with this. Where did the church get the idiotic, satanic idea that we're not supposed to fight David and Goliath. Do we say like, Oh, David repented and prayed with Goliath's family. There is a time we don't fight the way the world fights, but to say that I'm not going to fight my children are being, are being stolen from me by Marxist maniacs who hate the family, who hate God. I'm supposed to say, well, go ahead.

God bless you. If you don't fight, you don't understand what the Bible commands you to do. We are not to fight for ourselves. We're to fight for what is right and true. What about the kids you'll never meet that are growing up in some community where socialism is destroying them economically. You don't care about them. You're commanded to love them and to fight. And so I honestly think that we who believe these things are finally waking up and understanding

that we have been lied to. We've been confused. This is a moment. Things are so ugly and crazy that finally people are waking up. Be a bold voice and help others to wake up. If you don't do that, as I say, you become part of the problem. So no pressure. Yeah. Listen, I have to tell you, you are absolutely the best guest we could have had on this topic, Eric. You've been fighting this fight for a long time. You've been enlightening us with your books, with your radio shows, with all the things that you are doing in our culture to make people aware of what this battle is

and also to give us hope. I think you're right. I think there is a revival. I don't think it will be easy because I think we've let things go too far. But you are a voice in, in this darkness that a lot of people look to and you've always, you've always had your, your,

your finger on the pulse of this, of this topic of this battle. And so I just really want to thank you for, for, for who you are, for what you've done, for everything that you've contributed to the culture and for leading so many Christians and giving them hope. I want to thank you too for your clarity. I mean, I think to be really clear about, you know, the battle that we're in, but also I think it's men like you and others who will stand up and be courageous. And we're now kind of, as Christians, we're kind of counter cultural and you're standing up very

clearly saying what you believe in, saying the truth. And when Americans see one person with courage, whether it's, you know, a Christian like yourself, or it's Donald Trump as president, courageously speak the truth on issues, it gives other people courage to engage. And that's why I'm so grateful for your clear voice and the courage that I think you offer so so many other Americans. Well, you're both so kind to say those things and have me on and introduce me to your audience, because I really think we need to know who is out there. We need to know who's on our side. We need to band together, help each other. need to band together, help each other. When somebody gets canceled, step up. We really need to know that God has allowed us to be in this for his purposes in our generation. There's no greater honor and just to encourage each other. And I think, you know, even I didn't even know why I

wrote the biographies that I wrote. And I wrote a book called Seven Men, a book called Seven Women. And I realized we need to know who these heroes are and what they've done. Because when you read about them, you hear about them, it inspires you. We need to know that we're not the only ones. And we need to know that there are others that have paid these prices. And by the way, they did it with joy. It was the most beautiful thing you could imagine. So I kind of feel like we just all need to encourage each other and be those examples. You know, there may be examples in history, but we can be those examples to others. And that's just how God works. So I just, I'm grateful to both of you for letting me be on this program. And I'm grateful that you have this program and

are willing to be so bold about what you believe in. I thank God for you. Thank you. Thank you. Can I just say one last thing that, you know, has been on my mind when crossed my mind as you were talking about, you know, the Catholic Church and so many of these politicians and the silence of the bishops. I have been, it's been on my heart lately to really pray for Joe Biden. I mean, this is a man clearly in the final stages of life who has really stepped into the dark side. I think he knows as a Catholic,

that what he is standing for in terms of abortion, he is the most radical pro-abortion administration in the history of the United States. Even in this moment with Roe v. Wade going to the States, he has I'm astounded at the things coming out of his mouth. I hope it's dementia. In any case, I as Christians, I know there's lots of Christians that listen to our show. Yeah, we should all be praying for his soul.

This is a very, very dark moment for him. But doesn't that prove everything that those of us who believe what we believe, we believe that we are commanded to pray for our enemies. We're commanded to love our enemies. If you're wondering, you know, who's on the right side, I would say people who are praying and loving their enemies. I'd want to be on that team. And you are exactly right to bring that up because as angry as we can get, these are human beings whose souls and lives have been targeted by Satan. We need to pray for their souls. And I thank you so much, Rachel, for bringing that up, because that is God's heart and it needs to be our heart. Eric, thanks so much for joining us today at the kitchen table. We hope that we can have you for not a virtual cup of coffee around our kitchen table.

We want to have a real cup of coffee with you because you're just somebody we so admire. So thank you. And it won't be 40 minutes. We'll probably keep you for hours. I would prefer that. I need the encouragement. I love you guys. And thank you.

Thank you, Eric. Take care. What an amazing conversation with eric sean um he's somebody i've admired for so long if you if you haven't read his book bonhoeffer it's so good and i do want to read his biography i actually heard his um several interviews that he's given around that book um about his biography including on tucker carlson today on fox nation um a really great conversation. But I think he's just, he's a really interesting voice in American culture and certainly in our,

in American Christian life. He 100% is. I'm grateful that he didn't give us the time. And again, he's so clear and so well thought out. Obviously, he's done a lot of research and put a lot of thought into these topics. And he is a leader that's going to help us, I think, kind of turn this corner in a corner that we have to turn as a country. I see the light at the end of the tunnel, Sean. And I think that's what the message is here, that it can feel really dark, but he sees the light and he's somebody I really trust. And he's right. We now know the battle lines. And as long as we all are willing to take up our place in the battle, I think we can win this because I think we got we've got a pretty good guy on our side called God. I really believe

that I think that I think this is, know uh you know good and evil so great great conversation um if you enjoyed this conversation just as we did we hope that you will of course um let us know subscribe rate review this podcast at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts and we hope to see you around the kitchen table next week. Bye, everybody. Bye-bye.