From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Why Elon Musk & X May Be Key to the Venezuelan Freedom Movement

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

The political crisis in Venezuela is back in headlines after incumbent dictator Nicolas Maduro 'won' Venezuela's recent election — an unverified result that the vast majority of Venezuelans and Americans believe to be illegitimate. As protests worsen in the region, Sean and Rachel are joined by Rachel's sister, Latin America expert Leah Compos to discuss the long history of political corruption in Venezuela and how the social media platform, X, is playing a major role in revealing exploitation in the country that many around the world aren't aware of.   They also share their fascinating conversation with Venezuelan-American journalist, activist, and former Miss Venezuela, Carmen Maria Montiel from earlier this week, where she provides more valuable insight on this issue and draws alarming parallels between the erosion of democratic norms in Venezuela and concerning trends in the U.S.   Follow Sean & Rachel on X: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy, along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life, and my wife

Rachel Campos. Duffy? It's great to be at The Kitchen Table, Sean, and it's great to be joined by my sister, Leah. Leah is a Latin American expert. She's been following the developments in Latin America for decades now. And of course, the situation in Venezuela is really heating up. This is a very precarious moment. Very obvious that the election was stolen, that the dictator Maduro lost. He's not yet conceded that he has lost. But and the opposition is continuing to fight for their freedom. And they're on the streets in something we've never seen before. If you're

ever going to pray for Venezuela, Sean, now is the time. So let me bring in my sister, Leah. Leah, welcome to the kitchen table. I want to get an idea from you of what's happening, but maybe also we need to talk about what has led to this, because American foreign policy has been enabling this dictatorship. this dictatorship. And they've been, you know, trying to get, give them concessions to the regime and in exchange for fair elections, which obviously didn't happen. Yeah. Hey, Rachel and Sean, nice to be here with you guys by phone this time. Yes. Well, I mean, look, I come at this as someone who, as you guys know, is not much of a interventionist abroad.

But, you know, Venezuela is actually very important to us because part of the very serious migrant problem has been fueled by the dysfunction in Venezuela. I mean, there are numbers showing somewhere around 800,000. I mean, there are there are numbers showing somewhere around 800000. You know, maybe maybe that's that's a high estimate, but certainly 500000 migrants that have flown out of Venezuela and are coming up to our border and to other places in Latin America. Leah, my understanding is that a third of the country has left Venezuela. It's the greatest human migration crisis in the world. Everyone was talking about Ukraine a couple of years ago. And as that was happening, this was much bigger. No, absolutely.

And that exodus of Venezuela and fleeing the authoritarian and dysfunctional system in Venezuela has placed a lot of burden on its immediate neighbors, Colombia, Ecuador and, you know, Brazil. And even if they're even flowing as far as as Argentina into into Europe, mostly to Spain, but certainly up to the United States. And you've heard President Trump talk about how they've been emptying their prisons and sending the worst of the worst up here. And we've seen some of the ramifications of, you know, while there are very good, hardworking Venezuelans seeking freedom, and I don't want to lump them all together, there have been, you know, criminals that have come up here as well from Venezuela.

From the most dangerous gang in Latin America, and the most rapidly growing. So that makes it very relevant to the United States, you know, today in political terms. But also, you know, the idea that the United States is the beacon of freedom and democracy and, you know, seeing the authoritarian rule of Maduro in Venezuela. Chavez before him. It's really important for the United States to at least be a moral support for democratic, you know, see democracy seeking Venezuelans who are trying to battle this sort of entrenched authoritarian socialist Maduro, former bus driver Maduro. So I just read a headline this morning that said that the Venezuelan gang leadership in

the U.S. has given a green light for their gang members to attack law enforcement officers throughout the country. given a green light for their gang members to attack law enforcement officers throughout the country. Again, I agree with you. We shouldn't lump everyone into one bucket, but a lot of bad Venezuelans are here and they're wreaking havoc. I would just note that Venezuela, you can call them a socialist or they're a communist country. And we know that whenever you implement those policies, you get despair, you get poverty, you ruin economies, which is exactly what's happened in Venezuela, which Rachel will often comment that you guys lived in Venezuela as a family when your dad was alone. I live there alone. I was doing an internship actually with the State Department and I lived there prior to Hugo Chavez taking power. But and it was a beautiful, very wealthy country. I better learn my compost family history, I guess.

I got that wrong. But decimated the economy over the last 30 years. And so I guess the place we find us today, Leah, with this election that just took place on Sunday, it appears that Maduro has cheated in the election, stole the election, that people have come out and made their voices heard in the ballot box. But it truly doesn't matter who casts a ballot advantage, who counts the ballot, which is Maduro, and he claims that he won. So can you kind of give us a backdrop of what's happening right now in Venezuela? Yeah, sure. So exactly. The election took place. The opposition, which is very organized, it hadn't been that as organized in the past. I mean, really, they've come together beautifully. I think the sort of, you know, leader of the opposition, Maria Corina Machado, who was sort of the way Trump was, you know, feared by the regime. So they threw

everything at her, lawfare, you know, went after her family, arrested members of her political organization, and ultimately the Supreme Court, which, by the way, if you're interested in the parallel between the Biden-Harris administration and what Maduro did, one of the first things he did was try, he didn't try, he successfully reformed, quote unquote, their their Supreme Court, which is exactly what what Biden is trying to do here. He announced the other day. But because because they successfully managed to change their Supreme Court, they were able to successfully throw the the lawfare book at Maria Corina Machado and then and thereby disallowing her from standing for for running for office for 15 years. So she stood up and said, OK, fine. You know, this is a B.S. ruling, but I'm going to I'm not

going to run and I'm going to put you know, I'm going to I'm going to support Edmundo Gonzalez, who is who did run and they and they won. They won 70 percent of the vote and they kept the receipts. They kept track of the polling. And so while the official tally is the official the regime's official election tally agency, tallying agency, the opposition has the receipts and they were able to show that they won this with 70% of the vote. So Maduro has come out and said, nope, I won. I won this. They declared they won. Their socialist partner in Honduras called and congratulated him. And by the way, that was one of the trips that Kamala Harris

took to Central America was to Honduras to her, to the president of Honduras's inauguration and forging that partnership with the woman who who immediately called and congratulated. Clearly, everyone in the world knows fraudulent election result that Maduro announced he had won. So now, yes, the the the the people have taken to the streets. We're seeing, you know, I'm seeing what you're seeing on Twitter, but huge rallies, you know. Massive. Massive rallies, exactly. Maria Corina Machalo and Gonzalez are leading them. She is a force to be reckoned with. I hope that you guys can meet her. She is amazing.

And she's just out there not letting up. Now, what she needs now is support from the international community. And she's getting it from some corners. Argentina, President Javier Millet came out and very forcefully supported the opposition and decried the clearly false elections. Peru has come out. There's been some other countries, yeah. Peru has come out yesterday and said they stand by the opposition and agree that in Mundo Gonzalez is the winner. But the United States has been mealy mouthed. And that's that's disappointing because I think that the the the up against this repressive regime in the in the face of what was clearly an illegal fraudulent stolen election um that that would be a game

changer so again let's talk about um i want to i want to reiterate the biden policy which was they lifted sanctions on their oil, which, of course, gave more power and money to the dictator. They granted petroleum and gas licenses. They released one of Maduro's, you know, biggest financial out like money launderers in a prison swap. They also did a prison swap with his drug cartel aligned nephews. So we have done all kinds of stuff to help Maduro. And here in this moment where the Venezuelan people are rising and they're in the streets, they're facing armed resistance from the military, almost virtually nothing from the Biden administration. So I saw some video that was remarkable of Maria Colina Machado,

you know, basically mom shaming. She just went right up to the troops, to the military. And she was like, put down your arms. We're doing this for you and for your children. Look at you. You're well armed. You have all these weapons, but look at your cupboards. They're empty.

There's no food. We're doing this for the Venezuelan people. She's fearless. One of the most interesting things about this, as you said, well organized. This would not have been possible, Leah, without X, without Elon Musk. prior to the election, they were critical in the organization of this resistance to the dictatorship. She told people on the day of the election, I want you to get up early at five in the morning or actually before five in the morning. I'm going to have an X message ready for you. Pour your coffee. Get ready for my message. Then you're going to go to the polls. After you go to the polls, you're not going to leave your poll center. You're going to stay there and make sure that others can vote. And then I'm going to give you another message and you're going to come on to x and you're going to film all of this stuff and if you see any irregularities you're going to post it onto x x was critical and throughout the election day elon musk was also

tweeting and drawing international attention i mean the amount of followers he has is in the tens of millions and people were following this election. So the information is power and censorship is a tool of regimes. And we see it happening. You talk about these parallels, Leah, between what's happening in the United States and what's happening here. That is why they want to control power. And Elon Musk has been a game changer in the United States. And's happening here. That is why they want to control power. And Elon Musk has been a game changer in the United States. And it's absolutely been a game changer in Venezuela, right? Oh, no, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, the Twitter game, I should say, that Mariakoni Amatalo led is instrumental, absolutely, in getting people. I mean, it really helps with, you know,

making people feel that they're not alone because I think that in these sort of repressive, you know, I think people kind of give up hope. They just are like, well, why am I going to go vote again? And it's every time I vote, they, they steal the election again. Why do it? And I think that's a real danger when people sort of, when people lose hope in the, in, in the opportunity or the chance to win back their liberty. That's when true authoritarianism stays forever.

That's what we should be trying to fight against. As I said, the message, the statements from the U.S. government have been so mealy mouthed and just so disappointing, especially as the supposed Biden-Harris administration cares so much about democracy. We're going to save democracy. But it's just it's just interesting, as I think I mentioned this to to Evita the other day when I said the problem is, is that this administration in the United States doesn't have much of a leg to stand on in terms of wanting fair and clean elections. The way they have thrown the lawfare book at Donald Trump to get him not to run. The parallels are just too, they're just too obvious. And seeing this outcry for liberty and for fair elections in Venezuela might in some way worry them. No, and I think it's a far cry from the bright light of Democratic leadership that Ronald Reagan gave from the U.S. in the 80s. We supported freedom fighters. We supported those who stood up against ruthless dictators. And I also want to give props to our founders. The founders of this country,

they didn't give people the right to bear arms because they wanted them to hunt deer. They didn't want them to have arms so they could have target practice. That was not the purpose for the Second Amendment. Our founders understand that if you had a situation like which the Venezuelans find themselves in, that the people need to be armed against a dictatorial government. against a dictatorial government. And the leftists are smart. By the way, this is Democrats as well in the U.S.

The communist-leaning Democrats, they first have to take away people's firearms, to take away their power, take away their rights, and eventually take away their votes and take away their freedom. And that's the struggle that we have right now. By the way, it's not just Democrats. Democrats like climate change have infiltrated our schools and are trying to turn kids against the Second Amendment in the school system about how bad it is and how many people die. There's a reason behind it. And one of the reasons that it's so hard for the Venezuelans right now to stand up and fight back against the military is because they don't have arms they don't have guns so there's that point i want to make but i want to ask you this because

uh let's go back was it was it four years ago that we had the uprising in cuba people took to the streets and they were you know we thought there could be some kind of mass you know popular uprising that overthrew the communist regime in cuba and it didn't materialize it didn't happen and i wonder if this is the same thing are we are we hopeful but in the end this is just another cuba where where where the result will be the same and the dictator remains and the people again are are suppressed do you remember during that uprising, the people of Cuba said, it's fine if you don't want to help us physically with arms, America, just keep the internet going so we can send out the pictures of the repression. And our government had the capacity to do that. And the Biden administration refused. And Elon Musk tried to help, but it was kind of too late. And so I think Elon Musk must

have seen that. And in this case, he played a much bigger role. I mean, he used Charlie, but in this case, he had X as well. And so that information is power in this context. I was just looking at the cover of the New York Post. What is big tech trying to do here in America? They know the power of the image of Donald Trump with his fist in the air. And so outside of Twitter, all the other forces are suppressing it. That's right. Google, Facebook, all of them are trying to suppress that image. Information, imagery, all of that is important in an election. And the censorship complex that we used to worry about in Cuba, we now worry about here. Yeah, no, I mean, look, I think these images and I think that,

you know, happily, the leadership in some corners of Latin America, you know, absent our own leadership, we lead from behind. That's the Obama way in the Biden-Harris administration. I think, you know, Malay calling it out, Elon Musk and his followers and his platform calling it out and showing the images are really powerful. And I think, I hope that this is not going to be for nothing. I will say that, you know, the US government, you know, is looking or the Biden administration is sadly, I believe, looking at this from their own political lens, and how this reflects poorly on them. And I think that, you know, every step of the way, they have failed Venezuela

and they have failed American ideals in terms of being behind clean and fair elections and liberty-seeking people around the world. This is a corrupt regime. It's not just that they're socialists. That would be, you know, That would be fine. They're just socialists. Fine. We can deal with that. They are a thug regime that engages in human trafficking, drug trafficking, sponsorship of terrorism. They have very deep ties with the Iranian regime. There have been reports over the years of flights back and forth between

Iran. And so, you know, the Biden-Harris administration inherited a really muscled policy from Donald Trump. I mean, he had a pretty strong sanctions regime. And by the way, I'm not a big fan of sanctions for the sake of sanctions, but these were very good and targeted sanctions against people engaged in real criminality, real, you know, as I said, money laundering, narcotics trafficking, child trafficking, et cetera. We had really good, a really good sanctions regime against these people. And the first thing that Biden and Harris did when they came to office is lift it and think that they could start to coddle these thugs to, A, be able to help their energy problems that the Biden administration created here in the States, and B, kind of sweet-talk them into holding fair elections eventually, kind of like when we handed off pallets of cash to the Iranians to try to get them not to produce

a nuclear weapon. I mean, it's just really leading from behind. It's shameful. It's actually embarrassing. The United States has absolutely no leadership role and is no longer viewed as the beacon for for liberty seeking individuals around the world. So one thing that could help change this, I mean, in terms of the response by the Biden administration, is if these if this political upheaval in Venezuela leads to even more people fleeing and coming up to the United States, that could be problematic for Kamala, perhaps as the as the borders are um yes it would be if the border gets any worse she's gonna look worse remember she was supposed to deal with root causes one of the root causes what were the problems and the economic issues in Venezuela um and again they exacerbated these problems by trying to appease them but also because they cared more about their green energy agenda.

So they wanted to shut down oil production here in the United States, but then buy it, by the way, dirtier oil and oil that has less regulations in terms of its extractions than when it's done here in the United States. But they were buying this and empowering the regime. So, I mean, I don't know, Sean, I mean, you talked about the moral clarity that we've lost. I mean, we have no backbone. We have no moral authority. Well, listen, I look at Joe Biden. And again, to your point, Leah, I think he has no credibility. Right. People people don't believe in and people don't trust in him. But we just talked about politics. Right. And there is a political angle. You're right that you could have more people come across the southern border. And the borders are that could be damaging for Kamala Harris. The other thing, this is a question maybe to the two of you. I have to imagine that if you're of, you know, if you're from Central

America or South America or your family is, you have seen a lot of this in your country or in the neighboring countries. And if Biden and Harris are so weak and they're not standing up for the people with a strong, clear voice and Democrats have already lost, you know, those in, you know, 50-50 to Donald Trump. If you look at the polls and we believe those polls, that's, you know, up 20 points from the last election in favor of Donald Trump. The Hispanic community is moving towards Republicans or Donald Trump and away from Democrats. I wonder if that's only going to be exacerbated. or Donald Trump and away from Democrats. I wonder if that's only going to be exacerbated.

More Hispanics are going to come to Team Trump because they're so angry that Joe Biden and Kamala wouldn't stand with the Venezuelan people. Leah? I think that the Democrats have been saying that they believe Florida is in play. I think that's laughable, but they think Florida is in play. They believe Florida is in play. I think that's laughable, but they think Florida is in play. Well, I think that the that, you know, the the Latin American people in Florida with Latin American roots are going to look at at this very mealy mouth out the gate response by the United States. By the way, if you ask a Democrat about it, they say, oh, no, no, it's because Biden and Lula are having a quiet conversation together to try to,

you know, behind that channel to try to get Malibu to do the right thing. That's what they'll tell you. But the reality is, is this this delay, the lollygoggling and the delay and the mealy mouth statements are just buying Malou time. So he could get the Chinese in to help doctor, help him make, you know, doctor the books even better, buying him time to threaten the military and, you know, get everyone in line, as opposed to coming out the gate and saying this is very clearly a fraud. I mean, everybody sees it. Seventy percent. They won by 70 percent. It's so clearly a fraud on the part of the of the Venezuelan regime.

And it's easy to understand why you would win by 70 percent when you took a country that was the most prosperous country in all of Latin America. It's now the poorest country in Latin America. Maybe 80 might compete with them for that. But they're eating zoo animals. You have middle class families eating out of garbage cans. You have women who, I mean, mothers, mothers and grandmothers who have fallen into sex trafficking in order to feed their families.

They go across the border to Colombia and sell their bodies so they can buy groceries and bring them back home. the border to Colombia and sell their bodies so they can buy groceries and bring them back home. The kinds of indignities and devastation that this has caused, not just on the country in terms of their resources that have been depleted and everything else, but just on the individual level. One of the things that the protesters are saying is we want Venezuela to do better so our family can come back because so many people have fled. This is a very, very serious situation. And Evita, Leah, by the way, Virginia could be in play. You have a lot of El Salvadorans, people who have seen this kind of stuff in Central America, who could also react very negatively to an appeasement by by Kamala Harris and Joe Biden.

And so there's a lot of political implications for us. But I think most importantly, it'll be interesting to see how how this administration reacts to a fraudulent election. And a lot of people saying more to come. We ought to be careful for our next election. We know there's a lot of registration of illegal immigrants. We know that, you know, as Sean always says, you only have drop boxes and early voting if you want cheating. And so we know that that's an issue that's going to happen in our election. And that's something that we're looking ahead. There's a lot of parallels, as you said. And by the way, Kamala Harris saying just this week, a video coming out of her saying that, you know, she intends to take all guns away in a mandatory buyback, which, of course, as you said before, was the first thing that the socialists did when they came into power was remove the guns.

And you're right, Sean, there's a lot of lessons from our founding fathers here. And maybe we ought to look at Venezuela and go back to our roots in our constitution. I hope that the American people can look at this, what's happening in Venezuela, and see that a regime that has singled out a leader in the opposition, Maria Corina Machado, singled her out, went after her with every fake legal pretzel twist they could find to make sure she didn't run. She won 90 percent in the primary to make sure she couldn't run.

And she stood up and said, that's OK, this guy is going to run. And she ensured that people went out and voted and they did and they won. That needs to happen here, too. That needs to happen here, too. Republicans have to get up and get out and vote if they're going to show that kind of of unity in defense of liberty. We have to do the same thing here. Well, commies be commies, whether they're in Venezuela or they're in the U.S., they do the same thing. prosecute, try to throw off the ballot, send your, send your ally, the allies of your political opponents to prison. Steve Bannon, Peter Navarro, both have been in prison, Jay Sixers. But as I think we wrap up this conversation, I want to go back to a point that we made at the start of this conversation, which was the importance of X. If you don't have a platform by which people can communicate, and you have to rely on ABC and NBC and CBS,

the New York Times, the Washington Post. I mean, listen, you have a complete blackout. You have misinformation coming to you from these major networks, and then you have the censorship that's taking place with Google, with Facebook. And so the fact that there's a platform for people to communicate and share information, I know Evita will say that she's not, that's her daughter. She's somewhat displeased with Elon Musk and Twitter. And maybe it's not perfect.

Well, she said there are some restrictions on Twitter that she doesn't like. But I couldn't be I could not be happier with Twitter. And I wonder what impact that's going to have on on the coming U.S. election, because people can now not like we've not like in 2020. We can now share information. You can't hide any longer the truth by the censors. Yeah. Even like this, the way they've tried to somehow memory hold the assassination. They can't do it. I mean, they're trying. They're trying. But X is keeping it alive. And I think X will become X is like a freedom tool. And we're seeing it play out. It's been beautiful the way it's been played out

in Venezuela. This would not have happened in Venezuela had Elon Musk not bought X. I think that's one of the biggest lessons out of this election. Of course, we hope that the Venezuelans continue to fight, that the international support coalesces around this movement that has clearly won. And we'll see what happens. Any last minute predictions of what will happen in the end? I'm not going to make any predictions. I'll just say we have to pray because right now the people of Venezuela need prayers, they need moral support, and they need the military to stand up for freedom and for Venezuela and to no longer be cowed and controlled by this repressive regime. We'll be right back with much more after this.

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Conditions apply. Ends December 15th. Rate is annual, calculated daily, and will vary based on account balance. Visit scotiabank.com slash right sizesavings for full details. We were joined earlier in the week by Carmen Maria Montiel. She is a former Miss Venezuela. She is an American citizen.

She's run for office and she's a conservative activist from Texas. Carmen Maria Montiel, I can't think of anyone better to begin this discussion on what's happening in Venezuela. So why don't you just sort of give us an overview right now of what's happening right now? Well, Carmen Maria, give us the what was going on before the election, maybe first, so we can kind of get a grasp of what Maduro was doing to try to curtail who his opposition was going to be in the election to craft a result that benefited him. Well, thank you, Rachel and Sean, for having me with you in this important time in the

history of Venezuela, when the Venezuelan people are peacefully protesting on the streets to regain back our freedom. This is this is a story that's been in the making for the last 25 years, when Hugo Chavez rightfully won the presidential at the time, be a president before him. And he roughly won in 1984. But in 2004, we had a referendum to take him out of office as soon as he took office, he started a communist agenda that the country was against it.

We, that was the first time we realized that the elections were stolen from the Venezuelan people as the exit polls show that 75% were for the referendum, meaning to take him down. And after we have all those exits polled at the times, the results were announced, the results were inverted. And Hugo Chavez said that actually it was 75% of the people that wanted for him to stay. Later, he died in 2013, and he appointed

Nicolás Maduro of his successor. Elections were called in April of 2013. And once again, the exit polls showed at the time that Capriles, Enrique Capriles was the opposition leader, won the elections and then again, the regime, because that's how we Venezuelans call it, because that's not a rightful government, declared themselves winners. So this is exactly, so what happened this time around is for the first time,

the opposition, which is many parties, have unified into one party and won and supported Maria Corina Machado, who is from the Vente party, the only right-wing party in Venezuela, conservative. And we called in October, last October, we had primaries, and she won the primaries by 93% of the votes. That's massive, never heard of. So the regime, in a way to get rid of her, disqualified her. And how they disqualify, they accuse people of crimes. I think we have seen that here already. And she was not allowed to run. Smartly enough, she turned around and she appointed somebody to take her place on the ballot in agreement with all the parties of the opposition, because now they're unified. And her name,

the name of the lady also happened to be Corina. And then again, the regime disqualified her again. At the last minute, Mr. Edmundo Gonzalez Urrutia agreed, as you said, to come out of retirement. He's a 74-year-old man to get in the ticket at the last minute. And he has been a diplomat. And this is a man that the regime, since he was put at the last minute, the regime didn't have time because to create crimes on him, because to look for anything, but usually they create the crimes. So he entered into the race for the unity. However, Maria Corina kept on campaigning for all these months with him or without him, as she is the leader. She is the person that the country is supporting. And when we went to elections this past Sunday,

again, exit polls were saying we have 65 percent of the votes. And when Consejo Nacional Electoral, it's called CNE, announced the results, they didn't flip it as they used to be and say they got 65 percent, but they said Maduro got 51 percent and Edmundo González Urrutia got 46 percent. The difference this time around is that the people is tired and took the streets peacefully. Yeah, it was interesting. I was hearing some then as well and saying they took everything away from us, including our fear. And they have nothing to lose.

And so they're on the streets. They're protesting what they know is a is a vote and i think sean um and carmen maria it's important to note like how difficult it is to get to this point i mean so when maria colina was campaigning around the country anyone who took a photo with her um faced government persecution um if she stopped to buy empanadas at a restaurant as she was campaigning, that restaurant would get shut down and accused of tax evasion. I mean, this was extreme persecution and the people have prevailed against incredible forces. And here they are. And they are just, this is the, as you said they they united all the

opposition parties together they they've overcome you know their their preferred candidate not being able to run not being able to be on the ballot they found a candidate that they could all you know agree upon at the last minute they've come so far they've got nothing to lose, right? Nothing to lose, because let me tell you that we were a country back in the 60s where 60 plus percent of the population were middle class. And you know, the middle class is the thriving force of a country. And Hugo Chavez and Chavismo, because he's what Nicolás Maduro represents, made that population 94 percent poor. The people have been able to to leave the country. They left. They left the country.

And of course, at first it was the professional people, the people with money, the professional people. But now it's so bad that even the poor people, they're living in food, walking. And they took our future. They took our way of living. And the worst is they took our families. Our families are separated. I haven't been able to be back in Venezuela for the last 12 years. I used to go when it was possible, if the country was at peace and not under unrest.

I used to go, but 12 years ago, I say no more because I could not risk my children and myself. And at this point, the people feel there is nothing to lose. There is no fear. Like you said, everybody who has supported Maria Corina have been punished. Even she cannot stay in a hotel. So if she stayed in the house of somebody, that person was arrested of accused of crimes. Maria Corina has not been able to fly, to fly, to step foot on a plane for the last 20 plus years. She's been punished like no other.

I cannot believe that they have not arrested her like they have with other opposition leaders, because I think, you know, and still today, that was the fear in our group, in our chats that they were going to go for her as they arrested one of the opposition leaders that was also running for president. As I told you, there was many. Superlano was arrested this morning and they said, well, probably they're going to arrest Maria Corina. But I'm telling you, if they arrest today Maria Corina or any time, really the regime half hours, I don't think the people will take it. The people is fearless. And remember, we don't have arms. Our arms were taken. That's what communism does. The people are out on the streets, protested, protesting without arms. or the communists take power. But if you want to get rid of the communists or the socialists, it's nearly impossible to vote them out because of the cheating and the scams in the elections that they use.

Talk about what's happening. Remember, it's not who votes, it's who counts the votes. That's right, it's who counts the votes. Talk about what's happening on the streets today. So a lot of the people feel like they won the election. You look at the at the exit polling. And to your point, whether it's 65 or 75 percent have voted against Maduro. What happens now? Do the people really have power? Is the government going to use force? I've seen that, you know, some of the military has been shooting at the protesters.

How do you think this plays out? But some have also joined the protesters. Some have taken off their uniform and joined. So what's what's really happening? Yes. Well, we have a famous saying by our libertador, Simon Bolivar. He said one of the most beautiful things, and I put it yesterday and said today more than ever. Simón Bolívar said, maldito el soldado que apunta su arma contra su pueblo.

He said, shame on the soldier that points his arm against his people. And what we are calling is for the military, their responsibility and the constitutional responsibility is to defend the people. At this point, they've been bribed by the regime. And that's why the military has supported them. But we're calling for the army to join the people. We have seen that many of the National Guard have joined the people.

Many police departments have taken their uniform off and joined the people. Maria Corina called for a peaceful and loving reunion that started right now. It started at 11 a.m. in Venezuela. And what happened is the people will not be off the streets. Their intention is to stay off the streets until they leave. And one interesting thing we're seeing is mostly you don't see the streets. Their intention is to stay off the streets until they leave. And one interesting thing we're seeing is mostly, you don't see the military shooting at people, it's the colectivos. You know, the colectivos, the similarity in United States with colectivo is Antifa and BLM. So they have groups that they arm and then they say it's not the military, it's these other groups.

But there are some other criminal groups in Venezuela that actually that are armed and they announced that they're going to take upon the collectivos defending the people. So it's very weird. So the criminal groups that have arms are standing with the people to fight against the Antifas of Venezuela? Yes, there is a group called Tren del Llano that yesterday announced. And I didn't want to post that in my Instagram. I can send it to you. Yesterday announced that they are going to take upon the people that is shooting at the people. And they say they don't want the regime no more.

So this is fixing to get pretty ugly. And it is better. We're calling for Maduro to please step down and listen for to the will of the people. Unfortunately, oftentimes people vote for socialism and that's how they got into this. Right. They voted for socials. I believe it was 1998. Yes. Maria Carmen, Carmen Maria, when she when he came into office and it took some time for the wheels to come off this, you know, economic train.

And let's be clear, Venezuela was the wealthiest, most prosperous, the jewel of Latin America. Every other country wanted to be Venezuela. They wanted to be Venezuela. And then he came in with these promises of equity and distribution of wealth and all this kind of stuff. And the poor people voted for him. And, you know, even as people were starting to see the effects of socialism and the country falling apart, by the way, for those who don't know, I lived in Venezuela prior to that for a summer. It was a beautiful country, prosperous. You know, it was a wonderful place to live.

And then the wheels started coming off. But even while the wheels were coming off, you still had every Latin America professor and every prestigious university in America praising Hugo Chavez. professor in every prestigious university in America praising Hugo Chavez. You had, you know, Sean Penn, Michael Moore, the elites of Hollywood praising the Venezuelan revolution. Well, we know who the elites are nowadays. Yes. You had Bernie Sanders on his website saying the American dream is more likely to be found in Caracas in Venezuela than in America and then when things got really bad and Venezuelans were eating zoo animals and middle class people that

they destroyed the middle class which is what socialism and communism always does they cannot have a middle class because the middle class is so independent they destroyed the middle class and those families were digging through trash cans for dinner. Then he took it off of his website. And now everyone's trying to wash their hands of what's happened. But here's my fear, Carmen Maria, and that is that the only way out of this, once you have this far into socialism and communism, is revolution.

I mean, the people are on the street. It's going to get violent. It's already bloody. You're calling on this guy to step down on on Maduro to step down. And there's some tepid, you know, text message or tweets from from Kamala Harris. But but what's going to happen? Can can can political and diplomatic pressure, you know, make him leave? pressure, you know, make him leave? What's going to happen? Well, it will have to be some sort of negotiation. At this point, remember, the problem with communism is, like it's being said, even in the desert, they ran out of sand. They destroyed the country, the productivity of oil, and then

they engage in crime. Remember, their regime, we call it the criminal regime. They're part of the drug cartel. And they know that if they leave just like that, they're risking to be arrested and prosecuted. So at this point, what's being said politically is the time to negotiate for him to leave and say, well, you're not going to be arrested. You can go whenever you decide and and and live your life. However, with all the money you have stolen or gained from from your criminal industry.

But at this point, since they were ready, we don't have the count. Yes. Yet. How many people died yesterday or were injured yesterday. And they started arresting opposition leaders. At this point, the people is not happy. And at this point, he will have to, if there is diplomatic intervention, they can negotiate for him to leave. But if not, the people will take it. The people already took the airport of the international airport in Caracas to avoid for him to flee. So he has nothing to lose in the people.

But Carmen Maria, I love peace. Right. And I love peaceful protests. I think that is a human way. It's been the American way. I think that is a human way. It's been the American way. However, when you have ruthless dictators who have become rich and powerful on the backs of people, that's what they want. They would love the peaceful protests and they'll use force to squelch those protesters. He doesn't care about international pressure. You have the Russians, the Cubans, the Chinese who all support him, that do business with...

So he's not... If you're going to get a regime change in Venezuela, it seems like it's only going to become... It's only going to happen if there is armed struggle. And what is it going to happen with Marina Machado? I mean, how safe is she?

Does she have enough protection? I know you are in contact with people from her team. I mean, what kind, I mean, she is obviously the face of this movement, the biggest threat. She is. So what kind of protection does she have? Well, listen, we know she's protected. I always worry. I pray for her. I send him a message. Please be careful. I don't see she use bulletproof, you know, vest or anything And that's even worse. That's what they were trying to make out of Chavez,

which whose statues were thrown down yesterday. So I posted something saying Chavismo is that she's posting risk. That's why this morning the worry was they're going to arrest her. And what happened? But the people will make a shield for her. I'm telling you, the people, like you said, Sean, sadly, it gets to a point that the only way out is by a revolution. There is no other way, sadly. And this is what the people still try to do in peacefully. But the people have no fear and they are protecting here. Listen, yesterday they tried to overtake the Argentinian embassy where six people that belongs to Maria Corina's team are taking asylum

because they wanted to arrest them. They were trying to take the embassy. You have no idea the masses of people that showed up to the Argentinian embassy to protect them and scare these, there were army and colectivos. They scared them out. And that's what the people is willing to do.

So they better not even think about touching Maria Corina because the people, I'm telling you, there is no fear. When you have been, when you have this type of hunger, when you have lost absolutely everything, you know you have no future, and you're losing your family, and you probably will not see your family again, you know that there is nothing else but to risk your life, at least for your next generation. What are the lessons for Americanists? The lesson for Americans, I've been telling the Americans for Americanists? people you mentioned, all these Hollywood people and Bernie Sanders that, oh, they think socialism

is wonderful. Tell me when socialism and communism has been successful, how many millions of people have died because of communism? I think it's time to stop this romanticism with socialism. You know, everybody were in love with Fidel. Fidel is the cause of what happened in Venezuela. He had his eye on Venezuela from the beginning. At the beginning, he tried to invade Venezuela in the 60s. We overturned him. But eventually, he was able to infiltrate Venezuela. And look what happened. The people of Venezuela has been trying to get rid of Hugo Chavez since 2002. And actually, the people peacefully, Chavez got so scared when the people marched to his house that he gave in.

But the opposition was so disorganized and did such a poor job that he was put back. And after that, he found the way to cheat on the elections because Fidel told Hugo Chavez, forget about revolutions. Revolution doesn't work anymore. Just do it by election. And they learn who counts the votes win. So America needs to understand. But when a politician calls that the elections have been stolen, they need to listen to the politician. There was a young guy yesterday in social media saying, if it is true they have five million people that voted for them, why they're not on the streets like we are? And that's what I tell the people in the United States. If you have that many people that voted for you, where are they?

I tell the people in the United States. If you have that many people that voted for you, where are they? Because I never seen a gathering or a rally or any see supporting the Democrats like I see for Donald Trump. And the numbers and the people shows and that's what's happening in Venezuela. But finally people lost their fear and said, show me your people, show me your five million people here on the streets like us. You know, there was a time and you think back to Ronald Reagan, when those people who around the world were seeking liberty and freedom, America stood with them. Right. That seems to have changed over the course of the last several decades. But what could America do to be helpful to Venezuela, to support the people who are on the streets, you know, looking for their for their freedom in elections and taking it from the socialists and the communists? What should America do? What message should we have? What aid should we provide? Well, I know America, because I've been having this conversation for many years, the United States, under the rightful guidance, was prepared to support Venezuela.

Once we get it, this is something that at this point the Venezuelan people have to do because otherwise it will be an invasion unless it gets so violent that really we're going to need international intervention if we get to that point. But then we need the help. And there are many organizations to rebuild Venezuela. Venezuela is an incredibly rich country in oil and minerals. And the people are hardworking people. But we're going to need the support because the country is being destroyed. When I go to Venezuela, and I haven't been in 12 years, it's a complete different country. When people tell me, do you miss Venezuela? I say, well, I miss what it was. But that doesn't exist anymore.

And I hope for the Americans. My dad used to say something very important back then. He said, United States is forgetting their backyard. And they will resent this we are latin america and central latin america is the backyard of united states and and my dad was a visionary and now i can't see it and i think united states need to understand that they need to support their countries, because if our countries are doing well, there would be no immigration to come here. Who wants to leave their country with their families? Everybody wants to be home and probably go travel. But I think we need to

get the right administration in this country to fully support the people, the rebirth and reconstruction of Venezuela. Because that's a nice thought, Maria, but it's not going to happen. This administration, as you know, has been enabling this Maduro regime. That said, the right administration, not this one. This one is not going to do anything. This one has been enabling them, buying oil from them, keeping them afloat, giving them a lifeline. Their responses have been tepid because they're averse to the decision.

What? Because they're averse from the same feather. Exactly. That's the lesson. That's the lesson. You've been on this issue for a long time. You've been trying to warn Americans of the dangers of communism and socialism. And you've done a lot, a lot of good in America. I know you ran for office. You were up against a very powerful Democrat who's now passed away. Yes. Sheila Jackson Lee from Texas. She ran against her.

I know it was a hard campaign. I knew Sheila Jackson Lee in Congress didn't agree with her on much of anything on policy-wise. But we do hope that she rests in peace. But again- Maybe we'll run for that seat again. Well, maybe God knows what's gonna to happen i'm still licking my wounds you know we need to have a serious conversation with many people we need to retake and that's

we need to take back houston and harris county it's impossible that our city and our county is in the hands of the democrats and when i try to explain to people, the Democrats are not what they used to be. They have really become the party of communism. And they're very extreme. And people need to recognize that, that we cannot, people cannot keep being completely fooled by them. And if you haven't seen it by now, I don't know what's going to take. But when you see the destruction of this country in these last four years, the open borders, you know, the open borders is one of the things that destroyed Venezuela. I always said this is a manual, a step by step. This open border issue happened to us in the 70s.

What did that do? First, destroy the the infrastructure destroy the hospitals they didn't have place to live that's what created the barrios the people coming and making shacks homes anywhere because what we're seeing that these people people were coming from other latin american countries into venezuela and venezuela at that time time under Chavez had an open border policy. No, this was back in the 70s. Back in the 70s, okay. That this doesn't, it was not only Chavez. Venezuela never had a right wing party until

Maria Corina had a party. All the parties in Venezuela were socialist parties. There was a democracy, but they have socialist ideas. So they opened the borders in the 70s. And then we got this flux of people that destroyed our infrastructure, created the barriers. Crime went up, changed the identity of the country. That's the most important thing. It changed the identity of the country. That's the most important thing. It changed the identity of the country. And the children of those immigrants were the ones who voted for Hugo Chavez in 1998.

Take, add up, 70s? By 1998, they voted for Hugo Chavez. And we're seeing it right now. We're talking about 50 million plus of people coming across the border. Look at the hospitals they have, you know, living on the streets in 20 years or 18. We will not recognize this country. Out of curiosity, where were the majority of these immigrants coming from in the 70s into Venezuela?

Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and people from, some people came from the islands, Trinidad and Tobago. But yeah, they came many across. We were also a country of immigrants. At the beginning, we got many Europeans, but the people that came by foot, I always said, this immigration that comes across the border by foot, generally is is is not uh coming to to help or report anything to the country and and that it changed the identity always said the major thing it was it changed the identity of the people and then what happened is when they came they were poor and and and and didn't have the same kind of ability to succeed. And that was, of course, how Hugo Chavez was able to convince those people to vote for him. And you got socialism in Venezuela.

Carmen Maria, great insight into what's happening in Venezuela. We appreciate you fighting from your perch in Texas. And bringing some more light and information and and context to what's happening there and warning Americans of what can happen here. Thanks for joining us today. We really appreciate it. Thank you, Rachel and Sean. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me with you. Wait right there. We're going to have more of that conversation next. Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime. Police have warned the protesters repeatedly, get back. CBC News brings the story to you as it happens. Hundreds

of wildfires are burning. Be the first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canadians. This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. CBC News. Well, great conversation with Carmen Maria. Listen, I think there are so many lessons, Rachel, that we have to learn as Americans. And again, my first takeaway is once you let the communists in, it's almost impossible to get them back out again. And I look at where we sit today and the integrity of

elections truly does matter. And so when we have a country that says, I know let's vote for 60 days, let's have mail-in ballot, and we'll send you a ballot and you send it back to us. Let's do drop boxes, no IDs. All that this is doing is setting up a system for which people can cheat. Because we know if you want a secure election, you should all vote on the same day. You should all show an ID, one person, one vote. And there are circumstances, you know, if someone's traveling on election day, someone, you know, is going to be overseas or, you know, on a business trip, you can vote, go to the clerk's office, get a ballot early, show your ID, cast your ballot early. And they show an ID. But Democrats have worked overtime, especially using the pandemic, to make sure that the system by which we use to vote is not secure.

And when you do that, people don't trust the election results. I believe that if Donald Trump should win in November, Democrats will say there was cheating. And if Kamala Harris wins, Republicans will say there was cheating. And it's because no one trusts the system that we have in place. And as the gold standard of, in air quotes, democracy and of elections, we are absolutely failing in regard to the security around our own elections. Yeah. And it's intentional. It's only intentional. I thought it was interesting, too. She's like, look at the number of people on the streets who are protesting against Hugo Chavez. You know, she said people matter. And, you know, when the other side can't come up with a a rally with more than a few thousand people like we see Joe Biden, there's not a lot of support behind those people. These rallies that Donald Trump is doing and has been doing since he started running back in 2016, 15 and 16.

There was a reason for that. The rallies show the enthusiasm. And so when elections don't look right, those rallies, those rallies say something about the level of enthusiasm. I think that was important to note. Also, you know, when she talked about open borders the open borders in the 70s brought in people who weren't you know um as committed to the way venezuela had become prosperous which was you know they were very much um a a a country

that was you know selling oil and and and and having, and they had a thriving business community. And like I said, it's really hard to overstate just how prosperous that country was. And they had a lot of immigrants come in who were not assimilated, couldn't somehow make it in the system. And so when Chavez came along with his message of socialism and taking down the rich and taking down the middle class business owners and distributing the wealth, that was very popular with the poor and they voted for it. What's fascinating now, Sean, is the poor are on board with the opposition party against Hugo Chavez. Yesterday, that statue of Hugo Chavez came down. I saw this morning that

the head was attached to a rope behind a motorcycle and is now being driven through the streets of Venezuela. And so, you know, this is going to be a fascinating, a fascinating time, Sean. And it'll be interesting to see how this regime and how the international globalists respond to the election fraud cries for help in Venezuela when so many people feel like the system here is not safe and doesn't have a lot of integrity. Well, which is why I think the commentary by this administration has been so tepid, right? They're not calling out, listen, there's election fraud going on. And, you know, it's not who cast the ballots.

It's who's counting the ballots that really matters in Venezuela. And there was fraud here because when you may be thinking about how can I get illegals to vote in American elections? How can we make sure we're destabilizing the election process in the US? It's very hard for those same people to call out election fraud in Venezuela. But I think there's something else at play. Elections do matter. And once the communists get in power, it's really hard to take them out. But sometimes elections don't matter, especially if the communists have taken over the institutions. And so when we look at in Venezuela, the prosecution of the political rivals, we're going to we're going to take you off the ballot.

You can't run because you committed crimes. Right. And they make up these crimes. you committed crimes right and they make up these crimes and by the way before her you had the very handsome charismatic mayor of caracas who was running and they went after him and they accused him of false crimes and they put him in solitary confinement for four years until the point where he in and house arrest and then he escaped um you, to Madrid, where he lives now. They've imprisoned in the last protest that we saw in Venezuela, all these young people who came out calling for democracy and freedom. Thousands of them have been disappeared, thrown into prison. So the imprisonment, the persecution of the opposition, and now this one woman who is an absolute powerhouse. I mean, it's hard to describe just the impact she's having. She is

the face of the movement and he could not have her when he she was able to reunite, to unite the opposition parties with 90 percent of the primary votes he knew he was in trouble he did not want to run against her and they made up crimes against her and said that she was not qualified or it was illegal for her to even be on the ballot and then she did that remarkable thing of finding this other guy they found somebody that everyone could gather around and then they put him to run and and again i mean this is it's incredible and then sean the other thing that we did two things one thing you brought up one thing she brought up she brought up the antifa blm the shock troops the uh the the red guards or in our in america we call them the blue

guards right um those uh radical activist forces that know, are allowed to perpetrate violence on citizens with impunity. So they have that going on. But then you said something, Sean, that just made me so sad. You brought us back to the days of Ronald Reagan and how America used to be that moral voice for anybody who was living in an oppressed regime. And we've lost that credibility. We've lost that moral clarity and that moral credibility to actually go to other countries and say things. This isn't right. This isn't fair. I remember Bukele, the president of El Salvador.

I mean, they laugh at us. They laugh at us. They go, oh, sure, you're going to come in here and tell us how elections are done. You have no credibility in Latin America anymore because of the way you've run your own elections, because of what's been done to Donald Trump was put on trial and convicted, it was Latin Americans who were like, what? You guys are turning it. We're a better version of it than you guys are. And by the way, what happened to Maria Colina Machado when she was taken off the ballot in Latin America, they actively say she was trumped. She was taken off the ballot. That's america they actively say she was trumped she was taken off the ballot that's a term in latin america to be trumped to have your own ruling party persecute you is now to be trumped in latin america that's we we've lost our moral standing sean we have and i'm gonna go back to my point though which was even though you can lose, you can win an election in the deep state.

If you put your people, the communists in place like you have in the Department of Justice and in the FBI, they will accomplish your your mission for you. Which means which means they're going to prosecute Donald Trump. which means they're going to prosecute Donald Trump. They're going to prosecute Donald Trump allies. That Steve Bannon is in prison right now. That, that, oh, what's our good friend, Peter Navarro. That Peter Navarro was released on the day of the convention when he gave his, when he gave his speech at the convention.

If Donald Trump should win this next election, make no mistake that Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Department of Justice and the FBI and every institution that falls under the cone of the presidency will be working against the duly elected president to undo his will, to stifle, to stymie what this president wants to do, even though he was elected by the people, the communists have infiltrated these organizations. Molly Hemingway on The Federalist has a great article about what's happening at the Department of Justice and the radicals and how they have gone after Roger Stone. They came up with a recommendation for impeachment of nine years in prison for perjury, which is unheard of. Violent criminals with criminal histories that are young don't get that kind of a sentence. But here's an old man with no criminal history was going to have a recommendation of nine years

in prison. And a report came out from the inspector general kind of laying out um how on i mean just the politics that are at play so do you remember when we had those venezuelan dissidents on our podcast it was early in our podcast one of our first guests were these two venezuelan dissidents and you and i asked them they now live in the states they had to escape they were the lucky ones that escaped um the persecution if they had stayed, they would have been thrown into prison or executed. And yet we asked them, what did you know that, you know, it was over for Venezuela? And their answer was when the justice system was weaponized in in in defense of the ruling party of the of the socialists and against the opposition and we're there sean we are 100 there in fact i think about three years ago when we had that podcast and where

we are now how far we've come how far we've fallen and um and i and i look at this and this is as we have coffee i i always talk to rachel about yes, the left has taken over the university systems and the K through 12s and and the medical schools. But the most important place that they've taken over is our law schools, because if you radicalize young lawyers in law school, these young lawyers then come out and they do become your future judges. They do become your future prosecutors. They do become your future prosecutors. They work at the FBI and the Department of Justice. They work in local county prosecutor's offices. And if they're not faithful to the law and the Constitution, because they've been taught not to be faithful to the Constitution and the law,

but be faithful to a radical leftist ideology where they can accomplish a political goal by the by using the law, then you see a contortion of what we used to have into something completely different. And I think we're seeing that right now. Yeah, these show trials, these Soviet style show trials that we saw of Donald Trump, the way lawfare has been used to imprison J6ers, that the FBI is going after and using every resource they have. They're actually, we interviewed the FBI guy who said they took me off of child porn cases and child sex trafficking cases to go after grandmas from January 6th. And so you wonder, Sean, if we find ourselves in November.

Okay, grandmas who walk through the Capitol. Praying. Holding an American flag and praying, we got to go after that lady. Yeah. As opposed to those who are disseminating child porn. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And then you look at the FBI. Nobody trusts the FBI to investigate what happened to Donald Trump at this assassination attempt.

Every institution has I mean, nobody has any trust in them anymore. But you're right. I mean, I wonder if in November, Sean, no matter what happens. Are are people on the right going to feel as comfortable as people on the left felt protesting in 2020 after what happened on January 6th? Probably not, by the way. And I think that's why Donald Trump always says you have to make this victory too big to rig. Right. And that's what's been in Venezuela, Sean. It was too big to rig. We're looking at, you know, he's saying maduro saying he won by just you know a a few points um but the early calculations until the exit the exit polling but before they shut off the the opposition from being able to look at the exit polling they were winning by 30 percent um and so

you know again as she said who counts the votes matters. And this is what just another another point on our elections. When you look at a massive city like Miami in Florida that can count their ballots and be done by 11 o'clock at night and announce the results, you know, they might have like a percent left, 2% left. They have to, they have to count, but a vast majority of the ballots are counted and Florida and the American people know how Miami voted. Compare that to what happened in Milwaukee. Milwaukee counts until, you know, midnight, one o'clock, and then they stopped counting and they're going to reconvene tomorrow at 10 o'clock. And what happens is when they kick out, they kick out Republican poll watchers. I think that was in Atlanta that happened. But what happens is all of a sudden they know how many votes they need to win the state, right? Because in most states, excluding Maine and is it Missouri, they'll come by congressional district.

But over the state, all the state goes is how their electoral college votes go. You know, Milwaukee, how many votes do I have to make up to win this state for my Democrat candidate or in Atlanta? Same thing. Let's wait and see how many votes we actually need. That's I mean, that's a huge problem in America. We should be able to count our ballots on election night. We should be done just like Miami. We should be done at 11 o'clock at night. And you harp on this all the time, Rachel, but we should vote with paper ballots. Now, if you vote with a paper ballot, you can still have a machine count your paper ballots,

right? The machines can count the paper ballots, but you have the paper ballots. So if you want to, if you want to go back, you know, five days later or a week later and have a recount, the paper ballots are there. They weren't, they weren't done electronically. When you do it electronically, you don't have that, that, that, that paper, um, or paper or by mail or by mail would also be by paper. But there's no security around it. Right. Or the drop box. There's no security around it. I'm so concerned, Sean, about the and it's now widely reported the number of illegals who have come across our border since Joe Biden was elected who are getting registrations to vote. since Joe Biden was elected who are getting registrations to vote.

They're getting voter registrations. And remember, they can register to vote. That doesn't mean they're going to walk into your local high school gym and fill out a ballot. These are going to be harvested ballots, right? No doubt they'll be harvested. By the way, once you put in votes from illegals who don't have the right to vote, you can't pull those out because it's a secret ballot. So you don't know actually how they voted. You haven't separated those ballots from all the legitimate ballots. It's like laundering money. You're laundering ballots. Once you put them in, you don't know which ones are fraudulent ballots, which ones are legitimate ballots, that you can get a mail-in ballot, that you can have drop boxes. The only reason you do that is to set up a system by which you can

cheat. There's no other purpose behind it. And you can use racism and people can't vote and disenfranchising voters, Jim Crow 2.0. You can use all those arguments, but the truth is one purpose, set up a system in which we can cheat. And if you can't win by the argument, by the policy, which by the way, Americans hate the policies of, or even if the policies, but the results of the policies of Joe Biden and Democrats, and they want something else, you can't win by what you've done for them. You have to win by how you administer the election. Yeah. And that's what we've done for them. You have to win by how you administer the election. Yeah. And that's what we're seeing over there. It's going to be interesting to see how this

plays out. I think the next, you know, 48 hours are going to be very telling. And we pray for the safety of the Venezuelan people, of their very brave opposition leader, Maria Colina Machado. And we pray that, you know, the international community comes and supports people who are just searching for liberty. And freedom, no doubt about that. With that, Carmen Maria, we appreciate her joining us and kind of giving us the lay of the land of what's happening in Venezuela. We appreciate all of you joining us at the kitchen table from Wisconsin, where we actually have a storm brewing right now. It's raining outside.

I don't know if you can hear that on the podcast, but weather's becoming inclement. But thank you for being with us. We appreciate you listening to the kitchen table with Sean and Rachel. If you like our podcast, you can rate, review, subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts. Always find us at foxnewspodcast.com, Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. We are there. We drop every Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

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