From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Why Isn’t DeSantis Picking Up Steam? A Look At His Flawed Campaign

Episode Date: July 14, 2023

Why isn’t Governor DeSantis’ presidential campaign picking up steam?   Sean & Rachel are joined by Senior Editor at The Federalist, John Daniel Davidson to discuss his recent article on the lack of momentum behind Governor Ron DeSantis’ presidential campaign and how his plan to follow the Democrats' 2020 plan to defeat former President Trump isn’t working in his favor. John reflects on how the 2020 Presidential Election increased Republican mistrust in elections and what GOP candidates can do to persuade voters. Plus, they discuss the growing interest in communal family living as Americans move to rural locations. John emphasizes the mental health and relational benefits of living on a rural compound, and what sparked this move West.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey everyone, welcome to From the Kitchen Table. I'm Sean Duffy along with my co-host for the podcast, my partner in life, and my wife,

Rachel Campos Duffy. Sean, it's so great to be back at the kitchen table, sort of, from northern Wisconsin. We've got someone who's also in rural America, but way, way in another part of the country. Where the light shines bright all day long, at least in the summer, but not in the winter. We have John Daniel Davidson, Senior Editor at The Federalist. And John, welcome to The Kitchen Table. Hey, thanks for having me. So you wrote a piece in The Federalist that really caught my attention because it is the

million dollar question. Everyone wants to know why Ron DeSantis hasn't caught fire, because it wasn't very long ago he was called Day Future. Everyone thought he was going to be sort of Trump, but without the drama. And this was going to appease the Trumpsters as well as all the the the I guess establishment Republicans and the corporate media types who, you know, want an alternative to Joe Biden. So why isn't Ron DeSantis catching fire? What's happened to his campaign? Yeah, the short explanation is it's not really about DeSantis as such. And it's not really about Trump as such. You know, the relative merits of these two candidates. It's about 2020. It's about what happened in the last election. It's about the last, how the last election was rigged. That's one, that's one way of putting it. Other, plenty of other people, especially plenty of GOP primary voters would say how the last

election was stolen. But, but that's what it's about. the problem is and i go into this in the piece is that the reason you know under normal circumstances a candidate like ron desantis should be you know leading the field by a lot he's a great candidate um he's got a lot of great accomplishments uh he's sort of a no-nonsense guy, like you said, Trump, but without all the drama, or Trump maybe with more discipline. He's not popping off all the time. He looks like he's a younger guy. He's got a great future ahead of him. He's got a beautiful family.

And he was reelected governor by a landslide in Florida, a state that he only won the governor the first time around by a very narrow margin. He won like 20 points in the midterm. So he should be really taking off. But these are not normal circumstances. And everything I think that has to do with how voters are reacting to him and with the caveat that it's early has to do with how they feel about the last election and how they feel like they were robbed and that their voices weren't heard and that the system is rigged against them. And so if the system is rigged against them and their vote for Trump was stolen from them, how do we expect them to just kind of trundle along into the next presidential election as though none of that ever happened? And like, we're just going to have a

normal primary now, and we're going to get our candidate through the normal primary process, and then we're going to have a normal general election. I'm sorry, but a lot of people are not signing up for that, and they're not interested in other candidates. But a lot of people are not signing up for that and they're not interested in other candidates. John, so is this almost like there's some retribution? Like a revenge vote for Trump? Yeah, the voters want to like, listen, I'm so angry about what happened. Maybe we'll get into that a little bit, too, because I'm from Wisconsin and I saw things that happened here. You know, you might say it wasn't stolen per se but did they cheat

yes they totally cheated in wisconsin and if you maybe can't if they're changing the rules at the end to to cheat or you know massaging the rules to cheat you know do you throw them in jail for that no you can't but you look back at it and are angry at the not non-fair play of an election and so is that the way the voter feels i was like listen i was the the vote was somewhat cheated here and therefore i'm not going with someone else i'm going to go with the guy that i i i think should have won in 2020 yeah you know at some point it's like a matter of semantics. Like, was it rigged? Was it stolen? I think we can, I think most Republican voters can agree that it was not free and fair. And that in a lot of parts of the country, including Wisconsin, which we wrote a lot about at the time, and which we covered and reported on from the ground. and which we covered and reported on from the ground, yeah, they cheated. Like just straight up, they cheated and they cheated in Georgia.

They cheated in a lot of other places. And under those circumstances, I think you're exactly right. A lot of people are just like, you know, I cast my vote in 2020 and it didn't count. And I'm not going to, if I vote for somebody else this time around, it's as though I'm accepting that that last election was free and fair and that that was legitimate and that what happened was okay. And I will just, I guess try again next time and just be perpetual losers. You can't have a normal primary process.

losers. You can't have a normal primary process. You can't have a normal general election when people don't accept the legitimacy of the system. And really, you know, kind of zooming out, and this is sort of a related but separate question, you can't have a republic when people don't accept the legitimacy of the system. And it's a big problem. I don't have the answer, but it's a big problem. And I think that's why we're not seeing a normal primary process where there are different groups of Republican voters are getting behind different candidates. Yeah, John, that's a really good point. If a candidate wins, you want everyone to buy in that they've fairly won. And if half the population doesn't believe so even though the in quotes winners have a problem and you want to debate in a conversation to explain and show how

you actually did win you don't just shut them down and call them you know a whole bunch of names and radicals and you know domestic terrorists so i just want to explain for our listeners just quickly we mentioned john i want to just name a couple things so people don't think all three of us are crazy. So we have voter ID in Wisconsin, which means you go to vote, you show your ID. But we have an exception that says if you're indefinitely confined, you're 94 years old and you can't get out of your house or you get some very strenuous physical ailments. We'll give you an exception and we'll let you get a ballot without showing an ID. And what they did during the pandemic is in liberal state, in liberal counties like Dane County, where Madison is, the University of Wisconsin, Madison is there.

the University of Wisconsin-Madison is there. They said, oh, well, because of the pandemic, everybody in the county is indefinitely confined and nobody has to show an ID. And so everybody got a ballot, everybody voted, and they did that in a lot of the liberal counties. And whole states did that. Entire states did that. Nevada sent a ballot to every single person on the rolls.

They weren't the only state that did that, which is absolutely insane. Also in Wisconsin, we had the Zuck Box. He came in to liberal counties and was able to gain access to voter data. He was obviously a liberal-aligned organization. We're getting voter data that

no one else had that they were able to use to get out their vote which again was that so that's that was a two Wisconsin points you have to you know suspend belief to believe that you know Joe Biden got more votes in Milwaukee than Barack Obama I mean and it didn't make sense and yeah and and in and that and Milwaukee had decreased population between you know their population decreased you know by the time the 2020 election came along compared to the Barack Obama election. And 2012. Yeah. So, I mean, there were just so many things that didn't make sense in this. It didn't add up. So so here's here's my question, because I think you're right on on a certain level. But I also think that Ron DeSantis turned out to be not as great as a candidate as a lot of people thought he was when this whole idea of Ron DeSantis started.

I mean, he's not connecting. And for all of the flaws that, you know, the people who don't like Trump will point out about Trump, you know, the tweets and, you know, his vendettas against certain people, whatever. The guy has charisma. He's imminently watchable. And, you know, it's funny. Yeah, he's funny. He's got that sort of perfect mix of politics, great policy and entertainment. And I mean, Ron DeSantis turned out to be very boring

and I don't want to be mean, but maybe a little on the spectrum. Like he just seems like he doesn't have the natural skill sets to connect with people. Yeah, he's kind of wooden. He's not a good retail politician. He's not good in a room like I think of politicians. Like his wife.

Right, yeah. Or like I think of past like GOP contenders, like Rick Perry was really good in a room, you know, Bill Clinton was good in the room. And these guys had charisma and kind of magnetism about them that Trump obviously has. And yeah, I agree. Ron DeSantis doesn't have that. And, and maybe that's, you know, if you're exhausted with Trump, then that's part of his appeal. But if you believe that Trump was not just run out of office unfairly, but while he was in office was relentlessly attacked by the sort of the permanent regime in Washington with two bogus impeachments, a never ending

Russia collusion hoax and investigation, and sort of an unending parade of obfuscation and obstruction from the administrative bureaucracy of Washington, then you sort of start to feel like, well, you know, not only did they try to destroy Trump once he managed to surprise everyone and win office in 2016, but then they tried to prevent us, the voters, from ever doing that again, that we were, you know, like we were being punished. It's not that the election was stolen from trump i think for a lot of republican voters they feel the election was stolen from them yeah their votes were taken and that and then and then they bragged about it after i mean so yeah the feelings we had in 2020

after that election i think a lot of people were like something doesn't feel right but then that time magazine piece came out and then we found out that the laptop was was real, would confirmably real. Then we got the found out that the 50 intelligence officers and and Tony Blinken had them do that. I mean, it's like now it's even more confirmed, right? Yeah, it's right. It was obvious on election night and in the days following the election of 2020 that something wasn't right. And there was a lot of fishy stuff going on. It was just obvious, even as you were watching results come in. But you're right. The Time magazine story explained, you know, they framed it as that they were saving democracy, right? But they were

explaining how they rigged the election. Our editor in chief at the Federalist, Molly Hemingway, wrote a whole book about it called Rigged, and we covered it extensively, all the different ways that the election was rigged. And when, you know, just to be clear for your listeners, rigged. And when, you know, just to be clear for your listeners, when I say rigged, or when when when we talk about rigged, we're not talking about that, like the Dominion voting machines were hacked, or that votes were, you know, sort of switched. We're talking about it was structurally rigged to favor Joe Biden, in some cases in ways that were, if not illegal, highly unethical and totally unprecedented, like with the Zuck Bucks thing, going in and basically, you know, taking over local elections administration offices. But all of these things have just become clearer in the four years or in

the three years that have passed since the 2020 election. And, and I think, you know, to the extent that these other GOP presidential candidates want to come in and make an appeal to Republican voters, they face this problem of like, how do you admit what happened in 2020? How do you affirm that, that, that happened? And then make the case that you're the best person to correct that? You're the best person to fight that sort of permanent regime that did this. Like, I'm sorry, but Nikki Haley is not the best person to fix the problems that plague the 2020 election.

And neither is Ronon desantis but john i i so i i agree with you in the sense that people are still ain't voters are still angry republican voters and i do there believe that there's then an attraction to trump because not only do they not want to not want to you know just let the 2020 election go but they they think Donald Trump is strong enough and will fight hard enough that they haven't really necessarily seen that from a DeSantis or a Nikki Haley or someone else. But here's my concern, and I want to get your opinion on it. As a Republican voter, as a conservative, I look at Joe Biden, and if he was my candidate, I would be terrified of his age, his lack of performance, radical policies that don't fit with the mainstream politic of America. Yet, Democrats are running him, and they seem awfully confident that this man is going to get reelected.

I think just when he was over in… He told Erdogan that. That's right. That I'm going to get reelected. I think just when he was over in... That's right. Then I'm going to win. It makes me inquire whether Democrats know something about the 2024 election that you and Rachel and I don't

actually know yet. Have the problems of 2020 then therefore been fixed in 2024? Because it seems like they have a plan in place that's going to guarantee the election of Joe Biden. I don't think they therefore been fixed in 2024 because it seems like they have a plan in place that's going to guarantee the election of joe biden i don't think they've been fixed i you know there there have been efforts in some red states to sort of shore up some of these things um and you know and ensure that some of of what were passed off as pandemic measures can't happen, you know, in those states or in

those locations. You know, I'm thinking of Texas where I was in the 2020 election, you know, drive-through voting and whatnot. Texas has the same kind of restrictions on absentee voting that you described in Wisconsin. You have to have like a reason that you can't get to the polling place on election day in order to get an absentee ballot. But other states have sort of made those exceptions or those new changes to how we vote that came in 2020. They've made the permanent. And I think that the left and Democrats would like nothing more than to have more people voting absentee, to have more ballot harvesting, to have fewer securities and guarantees on on identity around absentee voting and voting in general. voting in general, and basically to have our elections less secure because all those things work to their advantage. Now, whether they know something we don't know about 2024 and about Joe Biden, I think the simplest explanation is that they think that they've got the system rigged

and that they rigged it in 2020 and they think that it's going to work again. And maybe they're right. And I think that's a lot. I think there is sort of a simmering anxiety among Republicans that that is the case and that we haven't been able to fix our voting systems and that the election is not going to be free and fair. We'll be back with much more after this. Welcome to the Airwell Business. Billy Bob Thornton, Demi Moore, and Jon Hamm star in a new Paramount Plus original series.

The world has already convinced itself that you are evil and I am evil for providing them the one thing they interact with every day. You're all right. Here we go. From Taylor Sheridan, executive producer of Yellowstone. Get everybody back. Go! Go! You just put a giant bullseye on this place. We rolled the dice one last time. Landman, new series now streaming exclusively on Paramount+. So John, is your point that if, say, DeSantis or any of the other candidates want to get traction, are you saying that they're just not talking enough about what happened in 2020,

that they're not laying out how they could change? You know, I mean, I guess I'm I'm a little confused because there's another part of this that, for example, I look at the Ukraine situation. Nobody has come out as strong as Donald Trump on how he would do it differently. And in fact, when DeSantis and this is where I kind of push back a little bit on you on about the policy part being being the point here, because DeSantis sort of made the move like, yeah, I he had the same position as Donald Trump. And it seems like donors made him backtrack a little bit. And so maybe people are like relating to, you know, what happened, you know, in the last election. Maybe they're like, he's the establishment candidate and Donald Trump is the, you know, non-establishment candidate and Ukraine policy could be, you know, exhibit A of that. It's like a litmus test. Or is it that you're just saying they're not talking enough about what happened

in 2020? They're not giving credit to Donald Trump for having been robbed of this election. So I think both things are happening. And I think that that's a great point, that there is a case to be made that DeSantis is kind of the establishment candidate, that he's acceptable to the donor class in ways that Trump was never going to be and never was. So, yeah. But these other candidates do face a problem that they don't really want to talk about the last election. They don't really want to talk about the ways that Trump was treated unfairly, not just as a candidate in 2020, but as a president in 2016. Because the more they talk about those things, they're sort of indirectly making a case that

you should vote for Donald Trump and vindicate your ballot that was, you know, vindicate your vote from 2020 and support Donald Trump. It's the same kind of problem that a lot of Republican candidates faced in 2016, in the 2016 GOP primary. None of them wanted to talk about the Iraq war except Trump, because they didn't want to criticize the last Republican president. They didn't want to criticize George W. Bush. And so none of them would come out and say what most Republican primary voters at that time believed and believe now, which is that the Iraq war was a mistake. We should have never been in there. There were no weapons of mass destruction. It was a complete boondoggle and it was a botched war. Trump came out and said that, and there was just crickets

on the stage. Not one of them wanted to touch it. And so I think that's somewhat analogous to the situation now. None of these candidates want to really dig into the ways that the election was rigged in 2020 and the ways that Trump was mistreated during his presidency by sort of the permanent regime in Washington. But they have to talk about those things. And that's the problem they face. Yeah, and John, they'd run the risk of the left-wing media calling them a conspiracy theorist if they bring it up.

But I don't know they should be trying to win the vote of the left-wing media. All of that should have showed up. You were very adamant that they all should have showed up when... Down in Florida for the federal indictment. Every single candidate should have been unified to go this is bull and i don't we're all competing in a primary but as a party we will not stand for the weaponization of the fbi and the doj and vivek ramaswamy was the only one who i was just going to say yeah i was just going to say he he

he was right on the money there now he's obviously not going to win the presidency, but he'll so john as we have this conversation about elections um you know some some some problems in the electoral system in candidates and i meant just mentioned you know the fbi and the doj targeting donald trump i just was at dinner last night and i had a you know a conservative guy i talked to who went to high school so scary with talk to me he told me he's like listen the irs came to my door with guns drawn and badges in wisconsin in wisconsin rural wisconsin and he's like they scared he's a big guy by the way they scared the shit out of me and um i'm like why are they coming to my door they didn't send me a letter anyway he went through a year process with the fbi and in the end with the irs right and in the

end they said oh yeah there's nothing here you can go and he's like i mean i spent money but he's like that wasn't the problem it was the stress that that caused me was unbelievable i'm don't commit crimes i mentioned the irs armed but i'm mentioning that because i've kind of lost my mind john a little bit since i've left congress maybe um maybe a little i'm a little crazier than i was in congress. I'm very- Or maybe you're just more- I'm more sane, maybe. I don't know.

I have two theories, and I want to get your take on this. So I think one of two things can happen. I'm concerned about the weaponization of government against conservatives. And it might be Donald Trump today. It might be parents at a school board today. It might be Catholics that go to Latin mass today. But I think eventually that is the system that's going to come for all debt. In 10 years from now, we will be $50 trillion in debt. The Federal Reserve has printed $9 trillion of new money in the last 12 years. This system, it will break. It is going to break. Now, we could talk about the intent.

Is it intentional or not intentional? I think it is intentional what they're doing, or not intentional. I think it is intentional what they're doing, but the dollar will collapse. And so I'm really concerned about how I, as heads of families, I'm concerned about how I make sure I can navigate these two things. And I think about it a lot. And I make Rachel listen to me a lot about all these things I'm talking about. This is what pillow talk is like at the Duffy house these days. How I had nine kids, John, I don't about. This is what pillow talk is like at the Duffy house. How I got, how I had nine kids, John, I don't know.

This is pillow talk. Am I crazy, John? Am I, am I onto something? Do you, do you feel my vibe on this? Absolutely.

No, you're not crazy. You're, you're, you're, you know, the, the,

the online young people call it based. Yeah. John, you sound based. Am I based, John? You sound based, John. You sound based. It seems kind of hit, but I'm not sure. No, you're absolutely right. The government is being weaponized against conservatives,

and the system is going to collapse. The economy is going to collapse. The economy is going to collapse. It's a matter of time. It makes it very difficult to plan for the future under these circumstances. I think a lot of Americans feel that. That's why I mentioned that there's a simmering anxiety, not just about the election.

There's a simmering anxiety just about the future and how to prepare for it and how are you going to take care of your family and your community. of like latin mass catholics or uh or or people in rural areas but but anyone who sort of self identifies as a conservative sees these things happening and like we're talking about just like parents who maybe a few years ago wouldn't have been thought of as conservative but now if you just object to like your daughter having to compete against a guy in sports, then suddenly you're a radical, right? I think that the anxiety also comes from seeing the ways that the government is willing to trample on our rights and liberties. Having gone through COVID, we now know that it's not just sort of like the federal government or Democrats in federal agencies or left-wing ideologues in Congress, but it's people at every level of government are willing under the right

circumstances to just trample on your rights and the constitution be damned. I think that like looking back on what happened during COVID, we see now that there's a there is a many headed Hydra out there like waiting to to destroy our constitutional rights, destroy the republic. We're like one crisis away from the republic collapsing. Right. And I think all it would take is sort of another pandemic kind of a situation or an economic emergency. It'll be under the pretext of an emergency that a lot of this, that we're going to get to the next level of this sort of thing. You know, I look at things like the trucker protests in Canada and what the Canadian government did. They targeted these protesters. These were peaceful protesters. They weren't rioters. They weren't attacking

buildings or attacking police. They froze their bank accounts. They seized their financial assets. And the ruling class in America, I think, looked on what Justin Trudeau and the Canadian liberal elite did in that situation as a dry run for how to do it here. You look at what they did to the January 6 protesters. You look at what we've discovered about how the FBI just asked for data on anyone who was within, you know, however many miles radius of the Capitol and got it. So these things should terrify anyone who cares about a free society, who cares about us all living in and preserving a self-governing republic. And the problem is a lot of people in America don't care about those things anymore. The ruling class definitely doesn't care about them.

Yeah, I think what I want to ask you what we should do, what you're doing specifically with your family before we get there. You know what surprised me about covid? And I think you're right. I think it was a dry run. I think there's going to be another emergency. I agree with you. It could be climate. We could have a climate lockdown.

Could be anything. emergency i agree with you it could be climate because we can't have a climate lockdown could be anything um i was surprised at how many doctors who knew better went along that was to me the most dispiriting part of it because i think i actually believe the medical community could have saved us had they just told the truth about you know natural immunity and backed up what they already knew to be true about masks and everything else. That was fascinating to me how much the professional preservation feeling was among that professional class. How many, but even now knowing what we know about how they lied to us, I'm just surprised at how few people are not angry that they were,

they and their children had to take the vaccine or felt compelled or coerced into taking it. It just seems like, like the people like me and Sean, I don't know what your vaccination status was, but I mean, we just refused to take it. We just thought this was dumb and we could, we also covid too i got covid i got covid natural immunities do that i believe in

natural immunity and i do i don't trust drugs that have not had long-term studies so i didn't take it but i'm just surprised that more people who did take it and didn't need to take it or i gave it to their kids are not angry. And so when I see how complacent and compliant everybody was, I can see that you're right. I think it's going to happen again. Yeah. I mean, we are being conditioned to be complacent and compliant. And to some extent, it's working. On the other hand, you know, I think, I think I do think that there

are a growing number of people who are angry about it. And, you know, they may not be really vocal about their anger, but they're, they're not going to forget, you know, what what was done, and what they were forced to do. I was able, fortunately, to resist getting the vaccine. And we had COVID as well, like a lot of people. And so I believe in natural immunity. And so once we got COVID, there was no question. But I was fortunate enough to work at a place, The Federalist, that the last thing they were going to do is even inquire about anyone's vaccine status. But a lot of people, and I talked to many people and reported on this at the time, they were facing a situation where it was their livelihood, their ability to provide for their family, and they were going to lose that if they didn't get the vaccine. And they were going to lose that if they didn't get the vaccine. And some people were forced to just because they have people that were relying on them and they couldn't afford to lose their job.

And so if they didn't want to take the vaccine, they didn't think it was safe, but they did it anyway. And I think those people are mad. And I don't think that they're going to forget. But unfortunately, as we know, just statistically, a lot of Americans did sign up for the vaccine. They had confidence in it. They believed the authorities. And to some extent, I think they're committed to a narrative that if you question the vaccine, you're crazy or you're a conspiracy theorist.

And science and reason is not going to penetrate that. Because it's not about science and reason at this point. It's about which side you're on. It's about being conditioned to go along with the program. And those efforts, I think, are ongoing. The efforts to condition us to just accept these narratives that we're told. Even if they say, oh, this is science. It's not science, but you have to accept that this is what science is now well here's where i think that again i've lost a lot of confidence i don't think a whole generation or two have been educated in

why the rights they have are so important which is why they're so willing to give them up yeah but we have an administration that's gonna take away gas stoves pizza oven why they're so willing to give them up. But we have an administration that's going to take away gas stoves, not pizza ovens. They're going to take away our gas cars. And I'm like, does anybody lose their minds that these people are going to fundamentally change

our way of life, how we move, how we get families around, how we go to work. And everybody's like, oh, I guess the EPA has a tailpipe rule. And yeah, in California, we're not going to have gas cars in 10 years if these people get their way. And I don't see people wildly protesting.

They're kind of like, oh, well, I guess we're not going to have gas cars. I'm shocked that the American automobile could be given up so easily, and maybe I shouldn't because we gave up our freedom in COVID so easily, but we're under attack right now, and people don't give a shit. A lot of them don't. But then on the other hand, every now and then it's so striking to me. I'll meet somebody, and I won't say where I met these people but people who are seem like really normal people apolitical not very political at all who are like yeah i just bought some property in tennessee with my family we're building a

i'm like you like you're you too like i don't i'm so shocked so maybe so wait talk to me about this subculture because i'm shocked at the number of people that i know who are doing that kind of stuff and how does one prepare john if someone's like hey listen uh you know there's there's there's some concerning things happening and it's okay right now how do i use my intellect and my resources to prepare for what's to come right so at the risk the risk of, of this, you know, sort of like turning into the prepper part of the podcast, give us some prepping advice, John, if you have any. Well, I, so I, I, I recently moved, I I'm one of these people, Rachel,

I recently moved my family from Austin, Texas, back home to where I grew up to up to Alaska, which is where I'm speaking to you from today. And we have a big piece of property here in Alaska that's only a few miles from where I grew up. And we're building a house out here. Incidentally, this politically is one of the most conservative parts of Alaska. We elect our like state representative to to the state house by like, you know, 70% Republican each election. So it's a very, it's a very conservative part of the state. It's the most conservative part of the state. It's also the fastest growing part of the state. But to your point, I think people need to think hard about whether or not they want to live in a Democrat controlled city.

You know, and for many years I lived in Austin, Texas, and which is which is sort of, you know, almost a joke. How how progressive and liberal and terrible, terribly governed Austin is. liberal and terrible, terribly governed Austin is. But we saw during COVID to go back to COVID, we saw that the cities that Democrat controlled cities were, were some of the worst places in terms of draconian, totally tyrannical unconstitutional restrictions, closing down churches, closing down schools, keeping people confined in, in their houses under threat of police

violence. Is that really where you want to be when another crisis hits and the powers that be decide they have to invoke emergency authorities? Do you really want to be in a place that locks down so badly and so unnecessarily during COVID? Like they've already shown us who they are. So let's believe them. And so I think one of the things, and this goes to, Rachel, your point about, you know, talk to people and it turns out they've like bought land in a rural part of the country and they're building a compound there.

I think Americans who want to be free, who don't want to be under the thumb of these petty little tyrants, need to think about whether or not they want to live in a leftist-controlled city. That's one thing. The other thing is, speaking to some of the economic anxieties that Sean, you were mentioning earlier, I think that's why a lot of people are looking for places to buy land. You know, if you have land, then that's something that's something maybe a little more durable than having, you know, stock options or, you know, or other kind, you know, investing their wealth in maybe more traditional ways. And honestly, a lot of people who are buying land are also looking to use that land to produce

more of the food that they consume. Now that's with the caveat that, you know, not to get all prepper on you, but, but those are things that, that obviously come to mind when we look at what happened to the supply chains during COVID. The global supply chains and the global economy that's been built up over the last 25 years or so turns out to be quite fragile. And when you shut it down, it doesn't quite turn back on the same way.

Even now, several years after the height of the pandemic, the supply chain, it's not quite right. The supply chains don't quite work. It's hard to get certain things. The prices haven't come down. There's not enough drivers and there's not enough workers. And it looks like things aren't going to really go back to normal. So the global economy, the global supply chains are not durable. They're not robust. They're actually quite fragile. And so that's something I think that more people are aware of now because of COVID. I'm thinking chickens, maybe a cow or two and, and knowing how to guard, maybe can too, Rachel. Yeah, no yeah no i i mean i think people are thinking

like in fact john i was on um my my daughter sent me something from instagram and it was a guy who started a business uh basically saying i you know you're thinking about you know getting a compound here's all the reasons why it's actually he didn't give up he didn't actually give all the economic and political reasons that we all have for potentially thinking about this. He actually said, listen, people were happier when they lived in a sort of compound, tribal, extended family setting. He talked about how depression rates have skyrocketed, that women feel more depressed. They don't have that support system for raising children that they used to have back in the day. And, and so his company was, I'll help you find the place you want to live. I'll help you develop it, design it. So it works for your family and has all the things that you guys need. Um, and I just thought,

wow, there's me that this is on Instagram and there's i'm not crazy and these people aren't crazy and i'm not imagining that there is beyond even just the um these political and economic reasons that there's this desire maybe because of the pandemic and and we're talking about world war three possibly here with with ukraine and russia that people are like i just want to be with my family yeah and in that sort of i i call it like a tribe communal i'm so glad you brought that up because it's it's so correct like yeah we're talking about the economy we're talking about politics and and and uh you know tyranny and and the pandemic but it's good to do this for its own sake, right? Yes.

People, you know, prior to World War II, the majority of Americans lived in rural areas on small farms. They produced much of what they consumed. Families lived closer together. families lived closer together there were more multi-generational households and that that was the way that that americans lived for most of our history up until about the middle of the last century uh and after world war ii we embarked on what was a very new experiment like conservatives who uh people who call themselves conservatives and sort of harken back to the post-war era, the 1950s, the early 1960s, that was an anomaly in the life of Western civilization. And it was not healthy for women who stayed home, you know, to keep house or for men who went off to like an office or a factory. You know, and the way that we constructed our lives after World War II was not healthy, it was not durable, and we need to start thinking about returning to a simpler, more agrarian, more communal way of life

and thinking of our homes as places of production where a husband or wife can work together to create something and to produce things rather than just be passive consumers of a global economy. And that is, you know, and to the other point about happiness and reducing anxiety, I think, you know, and this is not me, but I agree that, And, you know, and this is not me, but I agree that, you know, human beings in some ways were, we were created to sort of live with each other, but also to husband animals and to grow food, you know, and to live in with a certain connection and cooperation with nature. And I think we would all be happier if we figured out a way to live like that. And, you know, you don't need, you know, hundreds of acres out in a rural area to start doing that. People can start doing that now. In many cases, you know, even if you live in a city, you can start to grow a vegetable garden in your backyard. Maybe you can even get some chickens, you know, maybe you can get a goat even if your local ordinances allow it. But I think it's just a more wholesome way of living. And it's a more, it is a way of life that persisted for a long time

up until the middle of the last century when we decided to change how we lived and it's not working out very well. And so we need to think a new a way or really we need to think of an older way that we can go back to we'll be right back with much more after this john i haven't heard anybody say it that way but as you are talking about um what happened after world war ii i'm like yeah that created a lot of problems in our society, in our culture, with our kids, with our families, with relationships between husbands and wives. It's destroyed the family.

The boldness of the elderly. I mean, and boy, was that accentuated during COVID, by the way. I mean, when you saw that there were so many American families who locked their grandparents away in nursing homes and now were completely cut off by it, how is your family adjusting to going from Austin to Alaska? They love it. I mean, we've been coming up to, you know, my parents have lived in Alaska, you know, for 40 years.

And my brother and his family, they have a large family. They've lived up here for 20-something years. And so we've been coming up to Alaska every year for a month or two for a while now. So Alaska is very familiar, obviously, to me. I grew up here, but my wife as well. And I have a daughter, and she's very with alaska as well and uh we're only we've only been here for a couple weeks so we're still adjusting uh we drove 4 000 miles from austin to alaska that must have been fun and anyone who tells you that we're sort of running

out of natural resources needs to drive uh across the united states and can Canada and then report back on what they see. We are not running out of natural resources. There's not any kind of scarcity out there when it comes to natural resources. Anyone who tells you that there is, it's part of a psyop, right? But, you know, it is an adjustment. And I think a lot of people, you know people are starting to think about making those adjustments just for their well-being. every day, it does more to combat depression and anxiety than any kind of regime of drug therapy or anything else that you can do for your mental health. Just being in nature, going for a walk outside, going for a walk through the woods. And I think I would add to that, you know, caring, you know, keeping animals, raising food, being, you know, returning to the land, so to speak, would do wonders for the

nation's mental health. It would do wonders for marriages. It would do wonders for community, you know, having harvest parties, you know, knowing your neighbors and helping them with their projects. And, you know, you mentioned nursing homes. Nursing homes are also a recent invention. Yes. The last century, you know, we didn't used to have nursing homes. When people's parents got older, they took care of them. And we need to return to that as well. And this is all part, you know, and so to the extent that people are doing, starting to do that and starting to wake up to this in America, I have confidence in the future that there will at least be a remnant of Americans that don't give in to sort of this consumerist society and to a regime that wants to destroy this older way of life. And the reason they want to destroy this older way of life is because people who live out on farms and who take care of one another and have thick communities, those people are free. And they are,

they exemplify the best of the American spirit that those people understand what liberty is. And you cannot easily take liberty away from people like that. You know, Don, they don't need a government. They don't need government because they can fend and care for and feed themselves. You,

you were talking about what happens when you work a little bit of land. It's really good for kids. Um, who you may get them off TVs, you get them off of video games and you get them to work and help produce with the family. Really, really good for them. I'm not going to go through all the kind of things that I've done, but I've taken certain steps to protect our family. But you're mentioning anyone can start a garden.

I've heard of people in New York City who have a balcony that are growing a few plants on their balconies i i at our house i uh i i got some big long planters and i planted amazon i've planted a mini garden you know they're they're uh two by two by ten two i got two two by ten you know little pots of uh to to to grow to to grow to grow, to start to grow stuff. Right. Yeah. Just grow stuff, grow stuff or go in or that didn't work. What did I do wrong? That did work. Okay. Figure it out. And it's really enjoyable. Yeah. And it's, it's worth doing for its own sake. You know, even if like you, mistakes and you end up, you know, spending more on your chickens than you would if you just bought eggs. It doesn't matter.

You'll figure it out. And it's worth doing for its own sake. And we've got to kind of rediscover that, that these things are worth doing for their own sake. We're trying to get to chickens, John. Rachel's not there yet. People are looking at where do i want to move right so for a while sean was like we gotta get out of this country nowhere to go well there's no other place to go i mean we've we've there's no better place uh than america right now right now i'm trying to see okay so so as you as you i mean you went back to alaska

because you're from alaska right and so that that makes sense to you and but what about other people like should you look for you know other people who think the same as like have the same values as you do or yeah what should people think about yeah that's a great question you know there is uh uh i i'm i'm a roman catholic uh i i think you guys are too yes and i have become aware and uh and we're one of those sort of scary latin mass families we are too. We like that too. that are being drawn to the Latin mass and that are actually moving to places in the country where there are Latin mass parishes and whole communities are building up around these parishes of people coming from different states

and resettling their families so that they can be part of those communities. And that's not to say, you know, that can be true whether you're Catholic or not. You can look for, to the extent that religion and your faith is important to you and communally practicing your faith is important to you, and communally practicing your faith is important to you. That's one thing to look for. And this is true to Orthodox communities, Orthodox Christian communities around the country have long done this, partly because the Orthodox communities, the Orthodox Church and Orthodox Christians in America are such a smaller group. the Orthodox Church and Orthodox Christians in America are such a smaller group, but they also came to this country initially as immigrants, and so they had tighter communities. But here in Alaska, we have a very strong Russian Orthodox community, and there's a church about 20 minutes from where

I live that all the houses, all the subdivisions around the church are members of the church, and they all have big families, and it's almost like a village. There's a push underway in downtown Detroit. There's a Latin Mass parish, the Shrine of St. Joseph. There's a historic church, there's a Latin mass parish there, and they are trying to buy 20 blocks of derelict buildings around the church and develop it into housing so that members of the church, because people drive for hours to go to this parish, so that they can essentially create what amounts to a medieval Catholic village around this church. In Detroit. In downtown Detroit. So these things are happening, and that's something that people should think about. If you're unlike me and you don't have like a place to go back to, like a rural place or community or family to go back to,

think about what kind of community you want to be a part of, because that's one of the things I think Americans are hungry for. They're hungry for community, whether you're Catholic or Orthodox or Christian or even just a non-believer, people are hungry for community and they're looking for real community, not online communities, not social media, but actual physical in-person community. And so that's one thing to think about. The other thing to think about is a place where you feel like you're going to be safe from the kind of governmental overreaches that we talked about earlier. And so you want to think about what states went too far during COVID, because that's an indication of what they're going to do next time, you know, or what states had people in charge where they showed some restraint, you know, and unfortunately, it

does break down to sort of red and blue. But the bluest states were the worst, and the reddest states were relatively better. I don't think any state really got it right. But that's another thing to think about, you know, is how secure are you going to be when the next crisis comes from the elected authorities? And unfortunately, that's something we have to think about now. the elected authorities. And unfortunately, that's something we have to think about now. I thought that Kristi Noem in South Dakota

did pretty darn well pretty early. We went to see her in the middle of pandemic and our kids were shocked. We went out to eat and no one had to wear a mask in a restaurant. And it was beautiful. These are cold states though. They are cold.

Well, listen, the Alaska- Alaska too. But John,. Well, listen, Alaska. But, John, let me. So a couple of things I think about outside of where to go. And I think that's a really good advice. Find a community of like minded people. And faith is a really good starting point to look to. And those who believe in the Catholic mass, you're right, share some very common beliefs that they're going to latin mass is there a role though for guns ammo gold silver crypto any of those things come into your

consciousness like they have in mind well all all except crypto because i don't really understand it and i i can't you know we can talk john i'll yeah i mean when people try to explain it to me and my eyes just glaze over i don't you know i'm just i'm not smart enough you're you're like me too i don't get it either i have a degree in economics and i don't get it uh no but i mean of course those things factor into it and and this is sort of like the thing this is the thing you know that like uh rachel you were saying you know you talked to people who who seem they don't seem that political and then they just dropped that they've like you know bought a bunch of land in tennessee and are building a compound

uh i think something similar you know has happened with guns you know like uh that certainly during the pandemic and the the summer of rioting that uh that followed uh the onset during the pandemic and the, the summer of rioting that, uh, that followed, um, the onset of the pandemic, there are millions of new gun owners in America who look out at the world. And these are, you know, Republican Democrat across the political spectrum. They looked out at the world in 2020 and they're like, you know what, I need to get a gun. Um, and, and it's something that is a lot more common than than you think uh and and even people who haven't kind of gotten mentally to the place where they're like oh i'm going to move to a rural area and like start growing my own food and set up like you know a homestead

uh have you know at least understood you know the, the scenario that we're facing enough to be like, I need to get a gun so I can protect myself and my family. I'm not going to like, just rely on the authorities to, to protect us. And I think that's, that's like, that's a good American instinct and, and it's, and it's smart. It is savvy. And then the next step, of course, is like, well, if you're going to get a gun, you need ammo. And, you know, it's not too far from that to being like, I need to stockpile ammo, which is, I think, where you're going, Sean. I wish I had, you you know i wish it was cheaper to stockpile ammo but unfortunately it's a it's an expensive hobby but uh no i mean that's that's part look a lot of this has to do with uh self-reliance to talk about like

growing your own food um you know being from alaska and and now living here hunting is a big part of the culture here but it's but but it's not um plenty of people do trophy hunting but but a lot of ordinary people look at hunting as part of subsistence you know hunting and fishing um and in states that have a lot of hunting and fishing if you're a resident of those states, and this is true of Alaska, it's probably true of Wisconsin as well. You have, you know, the ability to, to harvest a lot of a lot of your own food, you know, through through hunting and fishing. And so so gun culture, that's where gun culture came from. The left likes to talk about gun culture as though it's part of like toxic masculinity and like domestic terrorism and white supremacy. No gun culture in America rose out of rural living self-sufficiency people hunting and getting food for themselves and their family through that. That's the roots of American gun

culture. And so to the extent that you're going to move out to a rural place and you're going to start to be more self-reliant and you're going to start producing more of your own food, you're going to want to think about guns and learn how to use them and learn how to hunt. And that should be a normal part of life, not some exotic thing. Guns are, you know, if you're going to live out in a rural area, you also want to get a chainsaw and learn how to use that too. If you're going to live out in a rural area, you also want to get a chainsaw and learn how to use that too. Guns are tools. And to the extent that more Americans are becoming familiar with them and learning how to use them, I think that's a good thing. And it's a good thing because it's part hunting and self-sufficiency but our second amendment was not about hunting as you know no it was not about it was not about you know i need a deer rifle it was about our founders concern about you know an oppressive state and they wanted to give

the the citizens a right to push back against a tyrannical state that's right which was the birth of the second amendment so and the left has tried to say, well, all you need is a single shot, 30, 30 rifle, you know, to appease the Second Amendment, to which we say, bullshit, that was not the purpose of the Second Amendment. So but you're right on the gun ownership. It did come from self-sufficiency. It was a tool needed to provide food on the table, whether you're shooting a deer and harvesting it and having venison for a month for your family. You're

right. And I think a lot of people look at guns in more rural parts of the country as just that. It's a tool. And by the way, it's a cultural tool because, by the way, we went shooting yesterday. My seven-year-old son, I have a.22 pistol that he shot for the first time, which I warned. The left would lose their mind if they saw the video of my little seven-year-old. I have a picture of you. I sent Sean last year when we came up to northern Wisconsin. I sent him to buy something like a shovel or something that we needed here at the cabin. Came back with a gun.

Came back with guns. You know, because they sell them at the hardware store. Like any good man would do. He came back with guns. So Wisconsin, and boy, I got a lot of negative feedback. There are a lot of people that don't understand that. I would say this. The more people buy guns, I think the better we all are in that. I think it deters whoever, whatever that those people are that have designs on us.

The more they know we're armed, the better. I also say there's a reason why the governments want to take away guns from their citizenry. China, Cuba, Venezuela, a lot of Europe, because you you take away their power when you take away their gun. And I think the more we talk about like that, we don't just, I mean, I love the idea of us going, you know, this homesteading idea, but also like,

we also have to get our voices out there. I think the, the more the minority who wants to rule over us knows that we are, that we are here and we understand what's going on. The more, the more amplified our voices are, I think the more scared they will be to do what I think they want to do to us. And so I hope that we don't just go to our compounds and be quiet.

I'm not saying that you're doing that. You're certainly writing and getting your voice out there and speaking for millions of people, frankly. But I think that it's important for us to not go down quietly, to let them know we're here. And I think that does a lot to prevent what I think they want to do. I think there's one more aspect to that, Rachel, that you just touched on. And that is, you asked me earlier what people should be thinking about.

And people should also be thinking about living in places where you can actually exert some control over your local school district or your local library. Fight on ground you can win. people are rethinking how they live and where they live you know there was not much point in sort of going uh and like fighting at the local level if you live in austin texas against like leftist bull but if you live in a conservative town in a place like alaska or wisconsin uh then you can be active you your voice can matter. You can actually make a difference there. And that's ground you can win. So that's something people need to think about is fight on ground you can win and look for that ground, seek it out, stake it out, and then get into the fight. Yeah. That's great advice. It's great advice. It's so great talking to you.

Really inspirational hearing what your family has done. We'd love to get an update, maybe in the middle of winter. When it's dark, 23 and a half hours a day. That's right. But certainly super

inspirational. I loved your piece. Again, that piece is in the Federalist a great site if our listeners don't regularly check into that to the Federalist you should not just because of John but our own Evita

our own letter of rights there as well it's a great it's a great touch point great thoughtful pieces about what's happening in politics and culture that really matter in our lives. So, John Davidson, thank you so much for joining us from elections to Prepping 101. Our podcast has gone in a number of different directions. And we love it.

We thank you for your work. We love your writing and appreciate you joining us at the kitchen table for a little cup of coffee and chat. As you're in Alaska and we're in actually God's country of Wisconsin. So we appreciate it. Thank you, John. Always a pleasure. Likewise. Take care.

Bye-bye. Thanks, John. That was a great conversation with John. Such a smart guy, such a wonderful writer and a great thinker um and you just you don't feel so crazy anymore that's really why you were excited about talking to john and again i sometimes i even get a little leery about talking about the 2020 election because there's so much um there's so much negativity around the conversation but i do think a lot of americans feel like there was cheating.

I feel like, again, I can't speak for the whole country, but I can speak for Wisconsin. There was cheating that happened. And so, yeah, I think he's really insightful on that. And I do think that there's people who want to vote for Donald Trump again because they're still angry about what happened in 2020, which makes them not want to even consider,

but they love his policies and they like that he's a fighter. Yeah, I do think, I agree with John on a certain level. I think people are disheartened by the process and what happened and they don't think that the system has been fixed and that it could happen again.

And I think that's definitely playing into a lot of it. And I've said to you before, you know, about the revenge vote. We've talked about that, that there's there's definitely a sense for so many conservatives about that. But I do think for all the smart things that John said, and I agree with, I don't think you can underestimate the policies. And I think the Ukraine, the issue in Ukraine is really interesting because it was a place where conservatives were anxious to see what was going to be Ron DeSantis's position. And he sort of striked,

he seemed to be agreeing with Donald Trump's, let's negotiate this deal tomorrow kind of, let's negotiate this deal tomorrow kind of kind of and then quickly turned around and to me that was the donor class and that was the proof i needed um to know that indeed this guy is not does not have for whatever i'm not saying he's not as smart he's not as conservative but he is not as free as donald trump has always been um to do exactly what his gut told him is the right thing to do for America. To me, that issue. And by the way, Sean, the Ukraine issue just keeps getting worse. I mean, the bombs we're sending over there, the depletion of our weapons, and then the fact that we're escalating this thing. We're playing with fire, with nuclear weapons. this thing. We're playing with fire, with nuclear weapons. So I think what what you mentioned is fascinating because Donald Trump never apologized for anything. Yeah. And I don't think I saw him

move back on policies, even if he might have been a small policy that it might not have been the smartest policy position to take things he did that I didn't like. He never moved back. Yeah. And to see that Ron DeSantis so quickly moved on Ukraine, if you believe that the the Republican voter, because the pressure you're going to get from the media and from the left, if you don't believe in in the policies that you're taking and they can flip you, they can flip you on Ukraine, they can flip you on anything. And that does not that's a really good point, Rachel, that is going to give voters it has given them great pause, given them a real reason to go, all right. So we'll see. We'll see how it turns out.

Trump is looking strong. I know a lot of people aren't happy about that, but we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. Yeah, and so thanks to John Davidson for joining us again. Great conversation. If you like our podcast, you can rate, review, subscribe, wherever you get your podcast. Please subscribe.

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Listen, thanks for joining us. And again, from northern Wisconsin and our little bedroom in our cabin, not the kitchen table, but still the kitchen table in heart. Thanks for joining us. Bye, everybody. Streaming now on Fox Nation. You believe you were sent by God? Yes. you