From the Kitchen Table: The Duffys - Why Men Are Giving Up On Dating & What Women Can Do About It

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

Recent studies have revealed that nearly 60% of young men in the United States are single, with more and more men stepping away from the dating scene completely.    Sean and Rachel sit down with Writer at The Federalist, and their daughter Evita Duffy-Alfonso as they discuss the growing divide between men and women in the nation and the phenomenon of men removing themselves from the dating pool.   Later, Evita lays out the factors that have led America's youth to turn away from marriage, and explains what men must do to successfully find love.    Follow Sean & Rachel on Twitter: @SeanDuffyWI & @RCamposDuffy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's so good to be back. And boy, we have a big topic today. A big, big, important, probably one of the most important topics. To humanity, American humanity. To, I guess, all humanity. Right. to be discussing today why men are giving up on love and dating and what women and maybe the culture can do to about this to help solve this situation so yesterday we talked about you know the the beauty of the animal we call the midwestern man right so we unpack that um for women but now i'm going to talk about some can i just I just say something? So, yes, yesterday's episode, if you haven't seen it,

you really should go back and watch it or listen to it. It's about what I call the most underappreciated species in America, which is the Midwestern man. But Evita might have actually outdone this because she married a Midwestern man who's also Latino.

That's rare, awesome, awesome bird. They're out there, by the way. So he has all the fiery, you know, Cuban qualities, but then he's also got all those fine Midwestern qualities as well. No doubt. He's he's he is he might be the most manly man I know. Like that guy. There's a task that has I meant other than you, Sean. But he's somebody, you know, when when she was thinking about getting married and to him, I just thought if there's a burning fire, he would run in and pull her out. OK, you can marry him. a burning fire, he would run in and pull her out. Okay, you can marry him. That's right. That's all I need to know. So anyway, you're married to a man who could pull you out of a burning building, Evita. But not everybody is so lucky. And I tell you, we have an epidemic of loneliness. There's a decline in marriage. It's right now the lowest that it's ever been in a century.

lowest that it's ever been in a century. We see increasing, and I don't mean increasing, exploding numbers of men and women, but mostly, you know, the problem, increasingly women, but mostly men, addicted to porn, so much online porn. We're seeing an increase in phone sex operators, but also AI girlfriends, which is really horrible and shows a sign of people really giving up on dating when you decide just to throw in the towel and get an AI girlfriend. That whole industry is booming. Six in ten men between the ages of 18 and 29 are single. And that number keeps growing. It's higher than it.

How many men? Six in ten. So 60% of men who should be dating are actually single. And that's up from just a few years ago. I mean, this number is growing and growing and growing. And so when you mentioned, I mean, men looking for other avenues of affection or love or sex and going to phone sex operators, I thought that was a thing of the past, but I guess it's going to come back. And OnlyFans, so they want to pretend like these women like them and they're willing to do anything to- Or AI, this AI phenomenon as well. So crazy. This is a symptom of a different problem, which is what we want to talk about today.

That's what we're going to unpack today. The problem of what women want and what men want is very different, which is why you find the two not meeting in the middle and finding love. That's right. The gap between what women want and what men want continues to grow. And that is, I think, on purpose, it's a cultural problem. Evita, I'm going to run through just a couple of the things that some of this, there's been some new polling that's come out and I want to get your reaction because you certainly are closer, know a lot of people who are in the dating pool. You're one of the rare birds your age who are married, but a lot of your friends, most of your friends are not. So here's this real division growing. So women, they polled women and men. Women hate Trump supporters. They don't. Yeah. One of the biggest turnoffs was being a Trump supporter, listening to Joe Rogan. If you're somebody who believes in two genders, there's only two genders.

A major turnoff for women. Yeah, major turnoff. Things women like these days, they like people who like the Barbie movie, which would mean other women and gay men. I'm not, this is really, I'm not making this up. They like people who are, have positive feelings about BLM. Men. Are offended by, if you say all lives matter, that's offensive to. That would be a turnoff to say all lives matter. Men hate communists.

I'm surprised that's not on both sides of the aisle. But this is the problem. When men hate communists, and it's not even on the list for women. That question comes up because so many women now are communists. We can laugh about this, but these are serious divisions. Men like people who eat meat and drink real dairy, drink, drink milk, real milk. Not like oatmeal or no or no. And I bet I bet you could break that down. I bet they actually prefer women who drink raw milk. I don't know if you know what is happening here. It's it's so it's interesting. All the things that you named off. I am the opposite. So I'm a woman. I know Trump. I'm a woman who eats meat, who likes raw dairy, not just real dairy. I do. This is why you're married.

Yeah, so that's a little bit different for me. And I have a lot of friends who are in this category, to be honest, a lot of college friends, even friends who I had in high school who now have evolved a lot politically since we really knew each other. Men or women, Evita? Are you talking about men or women? definitely a problem with women and their politics in this country. They're horrible. If you look at maps where they'll say, what would the election have turned out if women didn't vote? And by and large, the results would have been so much better. I think it comes from women being chronically online. I think it comes from the poison that is femininity that has destroyed women's perception of themselves and has devalued the qualities that really are innate to femininity. And instead they've embraced masculine qualities because somehow the feminist movement has told them

that that makes them more valuable. But I also don't want to undermine the role that men play in this. We read, you and I, before we got on this podcast, an article about how men can't find partners, how women have too high of standards. I think the problem comes from both sexes. I think men as well as women have been poisoned by our culture. If you're a man and you don't work out and you kind of have a crappy job and you don't have a lot of self-confidence and then you expect

a really high value woman to fall in love with you and get married to you, you're delusional. You have to be interested in building yourself up to then make yourself a desirable partner for the opposite sex. So both men and women need to do better and a culture is destroying both of them, but you have to look beyond the culture and beyond the social media psyops and say, you know what, I'm going to do things differently. So let me, can I give you the other side of this? So we did, there was a woman on TikTok. She went viral because she basically said, I'm not dating you until I see what your bank account is. Right.

And part of it, and of course, she's repulsive and it's gross. And the viral the reason it went viral were because there were people that were like, go, girl. But there were also a lot of people saying this is gross. You know, who would want this woman? So it was on both sides. But I think that what this woman captured was something that is happening in society. There's always been gold diggers and women like that. But what's also happened is that women have become more successful. You have more women.

I think there's 2 million more women that have, almost 2 million more women who have college degrees than. 1.6, 1.8 million more. Yeah, 1.6, 1.8 million more women have college degrees than men. Women are making as much or more, especially in big blue cities, because there's a desire for companies, you know, because of all the incentives we set up with like, you know, diversity and inclusion and making sure that women are rising. So there's an incentive to actually promote and put women in different positions and higher positions.

And so they're actually out gaining men in that regard. Also, so many the education system itself. I mean, I remember hearing decades ago, you and I have had this conversation many times about the war on boys, that our education system and the way it moves people up and into higher positions is incentivize people who are obedient and submissive and aren't pushing back. And so they also get promoted up that way. And so you have women who have really high expectations. Women have always wanted to marry somebody who makes more than them, is more successful than them, but now they're really successful. And so there's this imbalance as well, right, Sean? So a couple of things. One, I think just if you look throughout history,

oftentimes women were not offended by men who made more. Actually, they wanted their husbands to make more. Yeah. But it does become a problem for a lot of men and women when the woman makes more than the husband, which in our relationship, I have never had a problem with it. I'm like, you go, girl. If you want to make more than me, I'm all happy about that. Go get yourself a big paycheck, Rachel. Yeah, but this is not. No, I'm going to have to.

No, I want to stop you there because that is not a fair comparison. That is not a fair comparison. In the very beginning of our relationship, before you were established, before you were a congressman, before you established, you know, who you were as an attorney, there was a point in our career. And if either you and I have talked about this, you know, I wasn't at we got married. I had some opportunities that were coming my way television wise because of some things that I had done. But it would have taken us away from Wisconsin and away from your career building. And I made a decision that I knew as a woman and as a mom, and at this point I had two or three kids, it was a broadcasting opportunity in another state. And I said, you know, I know I could be happy being an at-home mom. And I was for 14 years and I loved it. And I did not think that you would be happy being an at-home dad. And I made a decision in that moment that I was going to let that go. And I was going to pursue your career path. And I believe that had I gotten the view before we

got married or had I pursued this job, which would have stymied your career path for sure, I don't think that would have been good for our marriage. I think you can say that now, Rachel can go make more money. But if at the very beginning of our relationship, I was making way more money than you and I was on a different career track, I don't know. I think that's hard on the man's ego. Let's just be honest. That would have been very hard. And by the way, just to clear this point up, you actually did support me in my career and then it flipped and i've been very supportive and you've had it you've had a more prominent track than i have up late are you complaining about fox business no i'm not i love my flex business but listen um i'm kidding you're you you do really

well and i've and i've been very supportive throughout the process of it and so again we're a team we're exactly we're a, but the team that I believe that there were male and female differences. And I, I believe that the success of this team has been in acknowledging the fact that I'm a woman and I, I loved being home with our children. I don't think if I had gone to make me the breadwinner and you had been home with the children, I don't think you would have developed confidently the way I have. That's true. And I think that has everything to do with biology.

So let's—I want to talk about what's going on here, though, that you have so many women in America, and men, they're looking for love, and they're looking for a connection, right? They want that to happen. They understand there's some human need to actually get married and find a mate, and those who don't see that need end up being old, you know, cat lovers and lonely. People are lonely, but they don't prioritize commitment or marriage. That's not part of the equation. They're looking for love. They're looking at, they're not looking at in all the wrong places.

They're looking at all the wrong things, right? So they're looking for someone who has these great looks and they're looking for someone who makes these great looks and they're looking for someone who well that's important over the it's the three sixes they're six feet tall they make six figures and they have six inches so i'm sorry that's that's that's what i've been reading like i again i'm talking about women i can't speak from experience on this that's a problem wouldn't you say you know what what really do I want? I want someone who works hard. I want someone who's nice. And by the way, you and I were talking about this earlier, firefighters don't oftentimes make six figures. They can, but oftentimes they don't.

Police officers don't make six figures. They offer other things. You miss out on a whole cadre of men who are awesome, hardworking to be great husbands, good fathers, but they're excluded because women have this nutty vision that I want this one thing of money that doesn't last, right? They don't look for love, they look for finances. I look at, we had this conversation earlier with your mom. If you're an electrician, electricians make good money. Now, do you hold them up as like, I'm not a Wall Street finance guy, but electricians work hard. They make good cash. I'd rather marry an electrician than a Wall Street guy. Thank you. But that's because I married well. But there's a problem with the way women are looking

at men and what they want instead of going, do these have the really great qualities of a good person who will be a good spouse for me, a good partner in life, and a good father to the children that we're going to have? That's not even the consideration realm. It's these other factors that I think are so stupid and they don't last, which is why I actually divorced. Sexual attraction does last. I'm sorry. I think it's really important to be sexually attracted to your spouse. I think that's a very important factor. But the firefighters and the cops would then be exploding in women all over the firehouse and that's become a problem. Okay. So Evita, what are young women looking for? Are they looking for what Sean says, looks, you know, money? I know young women, Evita. I'm like,

you know. Are they looking for looks? Are they looking for money? Or is it the problem that they're not even looking for commitment? So I think it's I think it's a I think it's a fallacy to say that women aren't looking for love. I think they always are. I think that it's really men that are the ones who are who are genuinely interested in the hookup culture. The feminist movement has tried to make it seem like women are the same sexual beings as men are. And that's just not true. It's not what I saw. I saw hookups when I was in college, but the women that were doing them weren't really happy. And if they were honest with themselves, they wanted a relationship. What I think the roadblock that we're hitting right now is women have always wanted a man who makes money. I mean, or at least has the ability

to provide in the context of whatever social setting they were from. And this is true for all of humanity because men take that take on biologically that provider role while the women naturally take on the caretaker role. If she's pregnant, she wants a husband who can protect and provide for her while she's in that vulnerable stage. So I don't think it's wrong for women to want a husband who makes a lot of money. I think the problem is that they're going into relationships in their 30s, wanting a man who's already completely established and has all this money. What needs to happen in reality, actually, and this is better for men and women's finances and children and growing together as a as a as a partnership is to get married young. Because when I married Michael and when you married dad, these were not established men.

They don't know what they're doing right now. My husband doesn't know what he's doing. He's he's he's really he's trying to figure it out. He's studying. But I saw him and I said, you know what? This is somebody that I can take this risk with that. I see, as dad said, I see the potential and I see that he can he's going to actually make something of himself. He's got a great math degree. I know he's smart. I know he's loving. I know he's caring. The problem is women don't want to take that risk

and grow with the person. They want to hold off on marriage and wait until they can just land somebody who's already perfect. And the problem is the men that are waiting until they're in their 30s or 40s, they actually don't end up choosing a spouse in their 30s or 40s. They go after younger women. And then the women that have been waiting end up getting left with nothing. And that, I think, is where some of the real problems that we're seeing right now. I don't think it's necessarily an issue that women want men who make a lot of money. I think that they should just be investing in a man earlier on. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Welcome to the oil business. Billy Bob Thornton, Demi Moore, and Jon Hamm star

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We're just out today. Mental health support is the number one reason people are calling 211 for a... At United Way, we wake up to a different alarm every day. Help us end poverty and build a better GTA any way we can. Donate today at unitedwaygt.org. It's part of the problem, too, just that the culture doesn't prioritize commitment, right? It doesn't, it's not, it's not, so you see, like, for example, and let's take pop culture. One of the most popular songs last year was Miley Cyrus. I can buy myself flowers. I can hold my own hand.

I can do all this stuff myself. So they're telling women you can do it on your own. And they're telling men, you know, not to commit in so many ways. Right. And it's so easy to not commit because of all the things that we've laid out. And and especially I think pornography is doing a is doing a lot of harm in that regard. And so you have a culture that isn't even pushing or incentivizing or prioritizing that. And then, like you said, they're waiting so long until they're in their 30s and 40s to think about it. I mean, essentially, how many I mean, there are a lot of women who actually feel guilty to say that they want to just be married and have kids, because that would seem like that's

a betrayal to, you know, the sisterhood, the feminist movement, all the all the sacrifices that the feminists before us made. So there's there's just so many complicated mixed messages. And then you add on top of that, Evita, the lack of communication skills that has come from, you know, so much social media. And it's a it's a wonder people meet at all. I think that it is such a good point that we are sending the wrong values in our culture. When we talk about how women are outpacing men in high school and then in college and then in the professional field, that makes a lot of sense. These systems are set up to reward people who are obedient, who are rule followers, who are people that are generally agreeable. And that's women. Women do well in school. Women can sit still for eight hours a day.

They can get the assignment done. Men generally have a more rebellious streak and don't do quite as well in these structures that we've set up. It doesn't mean they're less smart. That's not shown by the data at all. But it does show that women are more successful in these structures.

And what we've done now is women are really successful. They get to the point where they're going to, you know, make partner at the law firm more successful in these structures. And what we've done now is women are really successful. They get to the point where they're going to, you know, make partner at the law firm or they have this really high paying job after graduate school. And then they realize, well, this isn't going to make me happy. I don't want to work for, you know, all of these hours a week, not have a family life, not be able to have children, not focus on my love life. And then they either stay in it and continue to be unhappy or they drop out. We are not telling women what will make them happy. I don't think we should go back to a time period where women don't have the opportunities to get a college degree if she wants one or a graduate's degree if she wants one

or to have the job that she wants. I wouldn't want that. I'm a college-educated woman. I have a job. I like the work that I do. I'm sure mom has a graduate degree. I'm sure she wouldn't want to live in a time where she wouldn't be allowed to do that. But to have a culture that tells women that your feminine qualities and your ability to raise children and to support your family in a nurturing sense is so valuable. And you can step away from your career if ever and whenever you want to.

And that's an admirable thing to do. That's what we ever and whenever you want to. And that's an admirable thing to do. That's what we need to be telling our culture. And on the opposite end for men, we need to be encouraging them to be masculine and to be providers. And if they feel like they don't have a lot of self-confidence and they can't get a date, hit the gym, work on your career, build yourself up. We're telling men and women different things and it's ultimately hurting them and society at large. Yeah, it's creating that divide that we talked about in terms of what they each are looking for. Can we talk a minute about the economy? Because, you know, dating can be expensive. And I think,

you know, part of it is, you know, there's so much online stuff. You and I have talked all the time, Sean, about how, you know, even, you know, people who meet online, it's like, okay, so you met someone online, stop texting with them, meet them in person, you know, or call them on the phone. You know, there's so much virtual crap going on. But then when you actually have to go out and if you don't make a lot of money because you're starting out and you're in your 20s, it can be expensive. And so, you know, when there's a bad economy, that also slows people down from dating or even from marrying because it gets expensive. But also it does get expensive and it is tapping people out.

But again, if you want to go to dinner with someone at a fine restaurant and try to impress them, that's nice. But if you can't afford it, you can go get a cup of coffee. You can go out for ice cream. Maybe go to a movie together. Or go to a diner instead of an ice place. There's things that you can do to manage the cost. Make someone dinner. Make someone dinner.

But then there has to be a few dates down the road to make sure you're comfortable bringing them in your home. True, true, true. I want to go back to something that you said, Avita. And I agree that people look for meat that is secure know, their finances in order and is of their same social stature. But again, I think I want to really underscore the point, when you can laugh with someone, when you can share your life with someone and your stories, and you have someone who's focused on their career and providing, because that's important, and someone who's going to work hard, someone who's going to run through brick walls to support their family. Like when we were

first married, I didn't make a whole lot of money and I would still go back and do lumberjack shows on weekends where I made actually more money. Yeah. It was a lawyer in the week and a lumberjack competitor in the weekend. You were a baby, Evita, but I did those things to make sure we had enough resources. And the history is full of men and those stories. And sometimes today, I think a lot of people think it should come easier and it doesn't, it takes time. And those are the qualities that you want. And I think you make a really good point as well. If you get married younger and you find someone with good raw quality, but maybe isn't developed yet, you can grow together. You can support each other together, which by the way, you'll both make more money in a marriage versus trying to do these career paths by your own

studies. We'll bear that out. Yeah. That's an important point to stop and point at. Married people make more money. It seems counterintuitive because, you know, it would seem like if you're a single guy, you can keep all your money to yourself. But it turns out that when you marry a woman, it's like there's two brains working towards your career strategy, what you should do. You kind of grow together. Also, by the way, married men are healthier than single men. Another counterintuitive thing. You think you're single, you have all this time, you can hit the gym twice a day if you want. But it turns out that a woman nagging you to drop weight or a woman cooking for you and making

healthier food for you than you ordering in all the time as a single guy. It's bad for life of health. It turns out and probably just companionship makes people healthier because we're born to be living like in that way. So those are really excellent points. But Evita, this morning when we were, Sean and I were having coffee and your yaya, your grandma dropped in on our conversations. We were talking about this podcast. talking about this podcast. And I said to my mom, I said, Mama, if I met, if you had met Sean and he was exactly the same person he is now, my mom really does love you, Sean. She's grown to like me. No, she's, she loves Sean. It wasn't, it wasn't love at first sight with you and my mom, but she has grown to really love Sean. I loved her first. You loved her first.

That said, she loved, she loved Sean. And I said, if he's exactly the same person when I told you I was going to marry him, but he was instead of being a law student, he was studying to become an electrician, would you be disappointed? And she said, do you want me to answer honestly? And I said, of course. And she said, yeah, I would be. And I think it's because in her mind, she worked so hard to make sure that I got a degree.

In her mind, she thought, I think she thought, well, Rachel should marry somebody who has an equal amount of degrees. Now, I want to lay something out because I think we talk a lot about having as much in common is really important. And so you want to, you know, you could say, well, having a degree means that we've had similar experiences or we have similar intellect or whatever. But I've just, as I've grown older, I just don't think that that's really a great gauge. Because as you said, Sean, some of the, you know, smart, hardworking, protecting family people that could come in, you know, in a blue collar man for sure. And maybe even more so. And so why not?

Why not have someone who has a college degree marrying a fireman? So I want to compare me, me and me and Michael. And I think to break this point out, and again, on marriage, I don't know where Michael's, this is Michael's, Evita's husband, right? And he's a math major or math graduate. He's looking at doing some cool stuff, but he hasn't figured it out yet. He's working construction right now. Yep. And he's still trying to find his way. He has a math degree, but he's working construction

because he actually likes it better as he's studying for something else. More so than accounting, right? So he's, but he's studying for something else as well. But if, let me lay this out. So if Rachel had met me when I was 38 and what I had become from, you know, 28 when we were married to 38,

the person I was, the success I would have had would have been so small, a sliver of the pie. So you're saying at 38, you would not have been as successful as you were at 38 married to me. Because what happened is Rachel had some more vision than I had. She was very helpful. And together, we were able to navigate my career path doing different things that set me up to do even bigger things that I would have never been able to do by myself. So I would look like, oh, you got a good catch from this guy that doesn't appear to have a promising career, but ended up doing some pretty cool stuff. pretty cool stuff. Had we not been together and I not had your help in doing the things that I did, I would have been a disaster at 38. And if you had come and been at 38, you'd be like,

dude, this guy is like, no way. So the point is women can actually help cultivate and craft and focus and think through their husband's career in a very positive way, helping accentuate the best. The better you do, the better I do. Right, it's a team effort. Yeah, go ahead. Again, when you want the whole package, I'll give it to you in a second, when you want the whole package wrapped up in a bow for you and presented, that oftentimes doesn't happen, which is why when women are looking for that,

they're ending up single. And they're like, I can't find any men. It's like, well, the wrong criteria is what you're looking at. Look at a different set of qualities. Again, as we mentioned yesterday on our podcast, do they go to church? Are they a person of faith? Will they love you? Will they care for you? Do they care about their family? I mean, we talked a lot about looking at the other person's family. Yeah. Happy marriage. Yeah. Not how much they make. Evita, go ahead.

I was just going to say, I think that something that I've learned since being married, but that I think is, maybe dad can tell me I'm wrong with this, but I think that men really value loyalty and the teamwork, camaraderie part of marriage. I think that that is something that's very valuable to them, whereas with men, something that's very valuable to them is the providing aspect of a man in marriage. I think that that is something that's very valuable to them, whereas with them, something that's very valuable to them is the providing aspect of a man in marriage. And I think it's so presumptive and I think toxic for a girl to say, I know I'm going to forego marriage until I'm a certain age, and then I'm going to marry the guy who's got everything figured out instead of doing the work to marry young and build a man up and work with him and work on both of your careers, but maybe focusing on his so that then, you know, he can actually become the man that he's, you know, meant to be.

I don't think Michael is the man he's supposed to be yet, but I know that he's really smart and I know that I'm going to support him and help him and encourage him any way I can. And sometimes it comes with thinking outside of the box. I don't think that dad, when he married mom, was like, I'm going to be a congressman. But mom said, you know, Sean, I think you can do this. And having somebody who has confidence. I was the only person who thought he could do this. Let's make this clear. When Sean said, I'm going to run for Congress, everyone said, that's a terrible idea.

And I said, I think it's a fabulous idea said, that's a terrible idea. And I said, I think it's a fabulous idea. That's a good woman. That's a woman who's stuck by you, who had loyalty to you and who believed in you. And that's the that's, I think, the work that needs to be done to build a real bond and a marriage early on in someone's life versus waiting for somebody who has it all perfect and is just going to give you everything after not being together for so many years. I just, I don't think that makes sense. I think it's tough. I think that's a great point. But you mentioned this earlier and to play off this point, if you're 25 and you want a 25-year-old

man with the whole package, you're probably not going to find it. You're probably going to have to go find a sugar daddy who might be 40 or 42. And by the way, to your point, the 42-year-old man probably is not looking for a 42-year-old woman. He's going to go find a 28, 25-year-old woman. And all of a sudden, you're stuck going with a much older man. But if you want someone your own age, you're not going to find that package. Therefore, invest in them and look at, again, the qualities that matter and last for love and for happiness. I mean, there's a biological things here that I mean, of course, feminism is based on the absolute denial of biology. And that's its downfall and always has been. And so Evita is, you know, in her early 20s.

She's probably thinking at some point I'm going to have a baby and you're going to want Michael to be set up, you know, to provide in that way. And so that you can focus on child rearing, on having a baby and the time off that it takes to have a baby recover and care for the child. And so there's a lot of biology in that. And again, gender roles don't have to be as strict as they were, you know, 100 years ago. We've evolved from that. But we've gone so far off the other end that we've sort of emasculated men to the point where now we're seeing an entire generation of men say, basically saying, I give up. I can't do it. I can't keep up with all the things that these women want. They just stopped. They're not dating. They're not dating. They gave up. And plus, now we have all these technological ways for them to check out and get some of these needs met sexually and emotionally in these really inauthentic, you know, non-real ways.

And it's just really creating. I think it's why we're in this loneliness crisis. And then the government comes in. And I saw this senator that came out with like, oh, I know we're going to spend a lot of money to address your tax dollars to address the loneliness crises. And it's like, no, let's just get back to, you know, love and marriage. I bet people and families, people wouldn't be lonely. They don't need another community center or ymca program they need families who love them and care about them and throw a party for them when they turn

80 and you know like this kind of stuff that you know you you think you the government can't fill these gaps but it really starts with people evita's age because if you don't have family formation um if you don't have people who fall in love and care and love each other and start a family and have kids, you don't have anything, culturally speaking. And you mentioned government can't do this. Government can't build it, but government can destroy it. And I think government has destroyed it. And just by the fact that, I mean, again, we want a whole bunch of, you know, women

to be really successful. We're going to change the way we teach, you know, K through 12, and we're going to focus on women, not boys. Not to say that, you know, 1960s was perfect, but when you completely flip it and focus on boys and girls and leave boys behind, it creates a real problem. When you have young boys who are now called toxic when they're actually just behaving like little boys. You are from a very early age in government-run schools driving this divide between the sexes, which when they get to those dating ages and the marrying ages, the gulf that the government

has created of successful women, not successful boys, boys are toxic, girls should be bosses, all of a sudden, they can't meet in the middle. It's more challenging for them to meet in the middle and find love, which is why it's not happening. I think there's something about parents. Parents need to do a better job of talking to their kids who might come home and go, I'm not going to get married unless I have a two-carat ring and they have to have these kinds of finances. Parents have to sit down and go, listen, I'm sorry, you are misguided. This is what you want with a husband, with a spouse. This is what you should be looking for. And if you get the whole package and they've got a great career path in line, that's wonderful. But if you're looking for that exclusively, I haven't raised you well. You're looking for the

wrong things that don't breed happiness and long-lasting happiness. I haven't raised you well. You're looking for the wrong things that don't breed happiness and long lasting. I don't think you can tell a child that I think you have to model it. I think you have to model it and, and show if you don't, what are your thoughts on what dad was talking about originally, which was, you know, let's say you're a college educated woman wanting, you know, you know, should should you try to increase your your dating pool, your dating options, your mate options by dating outside of classes? By that, I mean being open to to to dating someone who is maybe a blue collar worker, you know, you know, who doesn't, you know, sit behind a desk. who doesn't sit behind a desk? Yeah, it's a good question. Before I answer, I just want to say one thing about the internet and the new world that we live in. I think that there's a lot of negatives to pop culture

and the way that we do things and the way that we've distorted gender and gender roles. But at the same time, it's also allowed mom to work from home and make really good money and still sort of have a career, but also be able to raise her kids at the same time. I feel the same way. I feel really lucky that I have the opportunity to work from home. And I know that I can do that if I ever do have kids and still make money. There are people at the Federalist, Joy Pullman, Madeline Osborne, who who have children. Joy has six children and is, you know, the managing editor and can really found a place that lets her have flexible hours.

And that's increasingly an option for women with remote work. And so that is only available, let's be honest, to a certain class of women. And so what's happened is, if I could just jump in for a second, I think this is a huge topic, is there's a certain class of women with a certain level of education who can work from home and have all these advantages to be able to have flexibility. And then you have poor women who have to go to work every day who don't want that, who actually want to have a husband who can provide for them so they can care for their kids. I think I saw a poll recently about Hispanic women. The vast majority of Hispanic women just

want to be adult moms. That's what they want. And yet the economic, and it's been really bad lately, the Biden economy has been horrible for the working class, horrible for Hispanics. Increasingly, they can't do what they want, which is be with their families and care for their children because their husbands aren't making enough money. They're not making enough money. No, no. You can finish it. You were going to go off on another point. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. No, well, I was going to answer your original question, but I just want to read this for you guys. This is from Jordan Peterson, who said that

this is a study that said every 16 IQ points a woman goes up from 100, she's 40% less likely to get married. On the flip side, every 16 IQ points, a man goes up from 100. He's 35% more likely to get married. So that to me is really interesting. And I think it plays a role in this. I think if you're, I think a blue collar, you know, working man, there's a lot of women who maybe don't have the IQ or even the college education to, you know, have these sort of really crazy expectations that they're going to get a Wall Street man. And that's a really good partnership. And I think people biologically tend to marry and date within sort of their IQ level. When it comes to women of a higher IQ, I do think that they tend to choose partners who have a similar level than them. And it doesn't really have to do with the culture or femininity. It has to do with

biology. And that's just a problem. And men are able to date lower than their iq because oftentimes it has more to do with with with sex and and and body type and age than it does with with iq levels and so there's just there's just more roadblocks for women who are you know had that law degree went to graduate school are are really know, high performing women that is intimidating to men and also really diminishes their dating pools. Okay, quick clarification for you as well. So interesting. And go to what Avita said on this point, but just, you know, you work the weekends, right? So you have a big job, a great job, but you're at home Monday through Friday and you're home at 1130 on Saturday and Sunday. You go to bed early,

but it's not like you're working 70 hours a week, Monday through Friday. And people go, how do you navigate your household with that kind of a career? You've been blessed with Fox and with a career that allows you to want to have your show with two great co-hosts and then also be a really engaged mom in our household. And again, we're blessed to have that with Rachel's work. I don't want to go into this in this podcast completely. We're going to do a whole podcast on this topic, but there's also a differential in what women think is attractive, right? There's this idea that women like kind of princessy men.

What's that? Well, it's kind of the skinny. You're talking about beta men? You're talking about beta males? Yes. I am talking about beta males if you want to put a term on that. Timothy Sheldon. I don't find him attractive. It's so funny because all of our girls think he's so cute. No, I do not think he's attractive. That's not me.

No, but all your sisters do. I know. There's a reason for that. We're going to do it on the podcast on why that's happening. But there used to be a time when it was the better built, more chiseled features, the manly man that can care and protect for his family. Yeah, we're going to do a whole podcast on that. There is something about birth control that does affect the way women choose their partners. Choose their partners. There's just some hormonal stuff going on.

But you're right. There is that. When we talked about Midwest men, I talked about women expanding their algorithms in their dating websites, in their dating sites to include some some men in the Midwest, because I think Midwestern men have so many of those sort of stable, reliable qualities. I think so many of them, you know, they grew up in heartier climates. qualities. I think so many of them, they grew up in heartier climates. They come from families that have a history of farm work and physical work, lumberjack work, and those kinds of cultural values. Even if you're not living on a farm right now, those values have permeated into the family structure, into the family culture, and that's what you're marrying into. And to that point, Avita, our advice on yesterday's podcast was, listen, if you're a man, don't lie about who you are. If you're a conservative, if you love fishing and hunting and you love your family, put that out there so you can find someone who matches your values.

Don't waste your time by lying about who you are because you might start to attract people who really won't be a good match for you. But I'm going to pause on that advice because if you look at, if you're a conservative, and we said, listen, and you're a Christian, you should put out that I'm a conservative, I'm a Christian. Well, the data that we're seeing is

shoot 70%, 75% of women will go, I won't date him. Okay, I have something to say. Which is why a lot of these men percent of women will go, I won't date him. OK, I have something. Which is why a lot of these a lot of these men will sit back and go, I can't find a woman because I'm a conservative. And which is why men are hiding their politics. Right. So they're going on on these sites and they're saying I'm moderate, even though they actually voted for Trump.

Should they lie? Should you lie about your politics so you can have a chance of at least get open the door? Yeah. Or you could take our advice and go, no, tell them we are. So here's why I'm not sure if you should lie or tell them who you are. But here's why I would say don't worry about it. I wouldn't worry about going out with a liberal woman.

young women particularly tend to be leftists because they are replacing the government with what used to be, you know, family ties or a spouse or a boyfriend or whatever. And they like the security that the government gives them because women innately want that. And so when they aren't dating anyone and when they aren't married, they often turn to the government as sort of a supplement. And that's caused so many problems in our society. But there are a lot of studies that show when a woman gets married, she becomes far more conservative than when she was single. So just, yeah, that's true. So this is just natural for women when they're, when they're not with a husband, they vote, they vote lefty. They're very, you know, they, they, they vote lefty on social issues, but also economic ones. And so I think that to take a chance as a liberal woman, you're going to have to do it because the dating pool is really small for strident,

red blood, conservative women. And the chances are, if you go out with her and you fall in love with each other and you get married, she's going to change your mind on a lot of things. We'll have more of this conversation after this. I know a lot of things. We'll have more of this conversation after this. Some things require a lot of work to grow, like plants, hair, babies, or your savings. But when you run a business,

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the role of so many of us who have a small platform out there is to get women to stop coming up with polls that say if you voted for Trump, if you have a gun, if you eat meat, if you like beer, I don't want to date you because then you just don't want to date men. That's a consequence of their circumstances at life. I get that. I get that.

But I think that what can happen too, I mean, again, we're looking at the success of marriage comes from having as much in common as possible. So I understand your point. Take a chance. They may they're likely to become more conservative with time. though, to find the perfect match, put out who you are and see who comes into that. And if you're a woman, don't be so sure that what you say right now is what you want. Look at other values that matter. And that's why I'm saying be willing to date outside of your geographic zone, again, I highly recommend the Midwest. Be willing to vote to date outside of your class category. Some of these things that you've put in, don't put six feet tall only and above. That's only 14% of men that are over six feet tall. You need to lower that standard or have no standard at all and just make sure you're focusing on what really matters. Now, that said, sexual attraction, physical attraction is wildly

important. And if you are not attracted to somebody, I don't say instantly because I don't think it always happens instantly. Well, sometimes it does. Sometimes it does. But if it doesn't happen over... I came off that train and I was like, who is this hot little Mexican? You did, but it took me a while to warm up to you and go... I knew he was cute, but I wasn't like, oh my God, I'm going to die without him. I got to that point.

But it takes time to fall in love sometimes and it takes times for him, for men, to woo women and it can happen. And, and people can grow on you, but at some point you cannot marry somebody that you're not physically attracted to. I agree with that. It's not going to last. So I agree with the advice of putting out who you are, right? But if you're not having success, you may have to actually

moderate what you say you are. And you talked about if you're a man, you got to prep, right? So work on your career. Work on a set of skill sets that are going to be marketable at some point in the economy. Go to the gym. That could be helpful as well. Cut your nose hair, maybe. That might be helpful too.

And have a decent haircut. Those things matter, but you also may want to prep on this. You might go, you know, I'm going to go into the world, maybe I'm getting a somewhat liberal woman in my feed. And I'm going to think through in my preparation for this dating, how I gradually make some really common sense conservative points. I'm not a conservative, but I've been thinking about X, Y, Z. This is so terrible. It's a terrible idea. You want to be you.

You're going to bring the moment over. No. Be yourself. Be yourself. Be yourself. Be yourself. Be yourself. I'm sorry.

If being yourself is not working, try to massage. How are you going to massage your world? Improve yourself. Seeing the world the right way, the way you see it. What do you say, Vida? I say improve yourself, but you can never hide who you are because that won't be a great relationship. You can move that.

We can move the woman with you. That's what I'm saying. I'll come at this from the opposite perspective as a conservative woman who has been pursued by a couple liberal men in college, and they tried to convince me that they were moderate, and then like slowly. Okay, interesting. It really pissed me off. I did not like that. I was like, you guys are trying to con me. You're a raging liberal. Get out. Like I was not interested. So I'm not, don't know how how well lying and easing them into it would really play. But I but I understand the point because I do think there are a lot of leftist women and you can't.

Some people are going to be able to find a a a conservative match. But the numbers show that not everyone's going to be able to do that. So Evita, this is why it didn't work with you. Conservative women are smarter women, and they're right in their policy. These liberal women are liberal because they're not very politically savvy or smart. They don't know the history. They're gullible. That's right. So what wouldn't work with you, I'm going to argue, might work with a liberal woman because they're just. I know.

I disagree. And you can unpack that with some crafty men out there to bring them back to what's right and true, which is conservatism. Can we talk about the incel movement for a second? The what movement? The incel movement. Yeah. I think this is a really great topic.

Yes, go ahead. So incels are men who say we are virgins and we don't have sex at all because not out of choice, but because it has to be this way because women are so crazy and so left-wing and so anti- and so, so, you know, anti-man hating. Oftentimes incels aren't

necessarily conservatives, but oftentimes they are right wing disaffected men and they are the worst people on the planet. And on this, at the same time, feminists also many times the raging ones say all of these men, they all have this sort of conservative streak to them. I'm not interested in that. And there are two sides of the same coin. I always say that feminists are female incels because neither one of them is looking at themselves and how they can better themselves to attract a partner. to attract a partner. There's this Vice documentary. I'm sorry. It's a Vice interview, I think, with an incel who basically talks to all these different women and talks about all of his grievances and why he's an incel. And he is this slump of a dude who has a crappy job, who talks about playing video games and is super out of shape and has this long greasy hair. I'm like, of course no one wants to date you. Look at you. You know, like you, you have, you, you can't, both men and women today are hating on each other and not looking at themselves and the problems

that they have and what they need to do to make themselves an attractive partner. And that I think is, is a huge problem with the world. I think that is such great advice. Make yourself the best version of yourself. Put that out there. You're likely to meet somebody if you do that. I do think that there are some obvious cultural, political, ideological barriers out there, I still think you need to look for having the most in common with the person that you're going to choose. You need to look beyond, well, there should always be physical attraction. You need to look beyond some of the more superficial things and look for core values that make a great long-term partner.

You have to lower expectations for men in their 20s because they're just starting off and it takes them a while to launch. So I think probably the best advice you gave Evita, which is advice Sean and I have always thought was good advice, is don't be afraid to get married young and grow together both personally, interpersonally, and professionally.

I think it's the way it always was done. And we kind of got off track and people started waiting to get together until they're in their 30s and 40s to get married. And I think people are well-formed and it's hard to meld and mesh together after that. formed and it's hard to to meld and mesh together after that and in the bin just one other point i want to make in the vein of improving yourself um i can't imagine you guys can tell me if i'm wrong or not do women like men not boys but men who spend a lot of time every day whether it's in their basement or the bedroom playing video games and they come to the day like like i'm really good at call of duty like this i have to imagine that's one of the most unattractive things. It's unattractive.

Go to the gym, put down, put down the controller. What's that? I said it's repulsive. Thank you. Yeah. So stop being a gamer too, guys. Yeah. There's another topic too, that there's nothing that can happen when you wait too long to get

married. And that is, and there's data to can happen when you wait too long to get married. And that is, and there's data to prove that it hurts marriage in the future, which is that if you have, if you wait till you're 30 or 40 to get married for both sexes, you're likely to have had that many more sexual partners. And the more sexual partners you have prior to marriage, the worse the outcome is for the marriage. And there's all kinds of data to prove that. Evita, what have you seen? Yeah, well, I mean, it's really just what you said. I think the more people that you've been

with, the less likely your marriage is to be successful. And actually, for women in particular, they say that the more sexual partners a woman has had, the less satisfied she is in marriage. So the less happy you are in your marriage. And if you, the longer that you forego marriage, the more likely it is that you're going to have a lot more sexual history and the more baggage then that you bring into your marriage. So to get married young means that the two of you both not only grow together, but also bring in to so much less problems into your marriage and chances for unhappiness. So it's an interesting point. Yeah, a point for sure. She wrote an article on this topic and used the term body count.

I'm like, what's a body count? Cultural expansion for your father. Can I say something else? A lot of this is about your attitude, your sense of optimism. I got really sad when I was reading about how many young men have just given up on dating and how many of them have given up on love and have given up on trying to impress women and try to woo women and they're they're just like sad they just kind of give up and they they're willing to have this mediocre life where they you know work their job come home uh watch online porn maybe get an ai girlfriend and lead this sort of have their their emotional needs met by by virtual fake people versus real people and real challenges that make you grow as a person. I mean, I think one of the ways to attract people to you is just to be optimistic and be an upbeat, happy person who's excited about the

future. And part of that comes from having hope. And some of it is about faith. I'm sorry, but some of the most miserable people I know are atheists. But also, the guys that are giving up on love, I'm sorry, they're probably not a good match for any woman. You're giving up on life. It's not just love, you give up on life. And so instead of grabbing the bull by the horns to go, I want to find love. And to the point we're making is, I'm going to do all the things that are necessary to improve myself. And then I got to look at, well, how am I engaging the world? The world won't come crashing into you and make your life wonderful or rarely happens that way. You have to go out there and live your life and find people, find experiences, put yourself in places that can help you find love. And sitting

at home and eating chips and playing video games and having greasy hair doesn't do it for you. You actually have to go, I'm going to take control of my life. I just don't give up on life. And I think that's a real problem. Some people just give up. And I hope they would. My advice is take control back. You actually are control of your destiny and you can actually figure this out and find a good mate for yourself as long as you try and have a little heart in the effort. Are you seeing hope in men, you know, wanting to improve themselves and wanting to sort of become that man that women want by what we see this rise in what some would call the manosphere, you know, the all these like online, you know, men who are attracting a lot of views, whether

it's Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson or, you know, on the Andrew J. But there's a whole bunch of other people in this huge range. And by the way, that's a huge range of men right there, the three that I mentioned. But there's a bunch of men online and there is a big market for men looking for direction. Does that give you hope for that this generation that at least online they're trying, they seem to be looking? Yeah, I think that there is an entire generation of men who have been told that their masculinity is toxic, who if they can't sit still because they're little boys and they naturally want to, you know, bounce off the walls in elementary school, are drugged up on ADHD medication that is unnecessary.

And they've been told that they're not going to get a woman if they have any sort of right-wing values or if they, you know, act too masculine. And it's been really, really frustrating for them. And now there's this influencer class that is really speaking to these young men and saying, you know, get up off your feet, stop wallowing in self-pity, hit the gym, get a job, make yourself attractive to women. The only thing I'll say about the manosphere, and I think ultimately it's a net positive on the world, is that it's missing morality. There is a lot of men in the manosphere who say, you know, become a high value man so that you can have 10 women, right? And then become the man at like the top 5% of men so that you can sleep around and do whatever you want and have

all the money you want. And ultimately that's not going to bring you happiness or satisfaction because that's not what God intended for humans or for marriage or for life in general. So I think we need to, I would like to see a manosphere revolution from really strong, awesome Catholic fathers or something like that, because there's definitely a deficit of morality in the manosphere that's a problem. I also wanted to say this before,

I don't know how long we have yet in the podcast, but this is more than just men and women and finding happiness and having good families. There is a broader movement to undermine the family, not just in our federal government, but also in global governance at the WEF, at the UN. And everything that they do serves to to undercut the family unit, because if you can undercut the defense against this like horrible, terrifying globalist takeover that we're seeing in our country. Having that having that unity and strength in your own family unit is your little way of defending yourself and fighting back. Yeah, who knew that being revolutionary would just come down to getting married young, having kids and leading a decent life. And by the way, I love how this, when you talk about the manosphere and how it has some directions that it's gone in that.

And that's because I think there's a difference between seeking pleasure and seeking happiness. And oftentimes people who seek pleasure don't find that happiness. And some of the directions that some of that is going in is bad. But I agree with you. I'd say 85% of it is a net positive for men and then for women. We just talked about men, what men can do to make themselves more attractive, to get themselves back into the dating pool, back into the game, more optimistic and looking for love. What can women do?

Because women are the other half of the equation. I think women need to be open, like you've talked about, Mom. I think also women need to value their femininity more. Women need to value their femininity more. I think that feminism has told women that the way to be successful and the way to have value in this world is to be like a man. And that has ultimately been horrible for women. So to say, you know, I'm going to get my college degree like I am, but I'm going to be looking toward my future and saying, you know what?

I know I'm going to want a family and I'm going to want children. looking toward my future and saying, you know what, I know I'm going to want a family and I'm going to want children. I'm going to set myself up for a situation where one, I can either, you know, have that life and marry and have a husband that can provide for me. Or maybe I want to set myself up for success where I can work from home and still have a career, but also raise my kids. Having that in the back of your mind is going to be so helpful for women as they look at their priorities and what they want to do in life. Because if you're a leftist woman and you think that marriage and family doesn't matter, and then you don't set yourself up to actually be successful in marriage and family to get to your 30s, and suddenly you

don't have what you want in life, there's going to be a lot of problems for you. So valuing the unique contributions that you bring to family and society as a woman needs women need to really start doing. And to really appreciate men, like allow men to be men, but also understand that men want to please women. Men want to improve themselves and be that person. And so what are you doing as a woman to encourage your husband to be, or your mate to be the person that they're meant to be, your boyfriend to be the person that they're meant to be? Understand that they're trying to figure out, especially in their 20s,

I think it can be really hard on a lot of guys because they just take a little bit longer and they want that companionship. They want that nurturing from a woman and that reason to really become who they're meant to be. Yeah, no doubt about that. And again, in the end, your corporation doesn't love you, your money doesn't love you, your cat might love you, but not the same way a human can. What do cats do? What's the difference between dogs and cats? I mean, Will Kane always brings this up to me.

They eat your nose. A cat will eat your nose when you die. If your dog will cuddle up to your dead body, your cat will start to eat you. So don't be a cat woman. Find love. And by the way, if you don't take our advice, you're going to be a cat woman. We're cat man. They exist too. They do. They exist. I know. It's really great advice.

Really interesting moment we're in where the, the, the, the genders are just dividing, stretching apart,

but, but we, we were meant to be together. We were created to be together. An interesting discussion on how we can help each other find and meet each other's needs.

Evita, thank you for joining us. And always fun to get your perspective who's just come out of, you know, dating world. Obviously, you've dated your husband for a while, but also seeing what your friends are going through and the consequences of their philosophies around dating, love and marriage. Can I ask something really quick? Evita, are your friends looking at your relationship? You haven't gotten married so young. Does that make them go, oh, I want to. Does that inspire them? Do they go, I want to get married too? Or is it like, no? So it depends on the friend. I have my conservative to moderate friends are very much so jealous.

They wish that they had boyfriends who are ready to commit and get married and start a life together. That's ultimately what they want. And I think some of my more liberal friends, even though they might think I'm kind of crazy, I think in the long run, they're going to end up wanting what I have. Not to sound conceited, but I'm really happy with my life. I don't have it all figured out. My husband doesn't have it all figured out. We're not where we want to be in our careers. We're not perfect people, but I'm really glad that I got married young and that we're going to, you know, figure it out as we go together.

Something may be wrong if you haven't figured it out at 23. I was driving a bus in Breckenridge, Colorado at 23. So kudos to you. You guys have it more figured out than I did at that point. I was on the real world doing really stupid stuff. You guys are doing far better than I am i was at that time but yes finding your person um and then letting your lives unfold together is one of the most beautiful beautiful it's the journey right but you know don't don't wait to start that journey um too late and and and i think that you

know every everyone's timing is different, but putting yourself out there, being the best person you can be right now so you can attract the best person that you can, having your right values in check so that you're looking for the right things and not superficial, empty things, all matters. Really great conversation. I think the most important conversation as a civilization that is now has marriage rates and birth rates at the lowest they've been in a century. That says something. So thanks for joining us, Evita. Thanks for joining us, Evita.

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