Front Burner - 13 deadly hours

Episode Date: November 25, 2020

New details revealed by The Fifth Estate question the RCMP's timeline about the worst mass shooting in modern Canadian history. It's been seven months since a gunman disguised as a Mountie went on a rampage, killing 22 people over 13 hours in Nova Scotia, travelling a distance of nearly 200 kilometres. Gillian Findlay joins Jayme to describe the fuller picture of what happened in that time, how the RCMP was one step behind the killer, and how the public was left in the dark.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. You know, it's disgraceful, I think. We shouldn't have to fight and beg for answers. That's the way I look at it.

It's been seven months now since Tyler Blair's dad and stepmom were murdered in Portapique, Nova Scotia. Jamie and Greg Blair were among the 22 killed by a local man dressed as a Mountie last April. Tyler's not the only grieving family member still left with questions. We just want answers. We want the truth. Full transparency. Nick Beaton's wife, Kristen, was killed too, nearly 12 hours after the Blairs were in a town more than 20 kilometres away. When she left home for work that morning, she had no way of knowing that a gunman was on the loose beyond Portapique, in a car that looked just like an RCMP cruiser. What the RCMP to say, we messed up. We made mistakes here, here and here.

We're learning from it and it's not going to happen again. In the days that followed those 13 deadly hours, many people asked why so little was done to notify the public about an active shooter, disguised as a cop, killing strangers and acquaintances alike across a distance of nearly 200 kilometers. Now the team at the Fifth Estate has put together a fuller picture of what happened in that time,

how the RCMP was one step behind the killer, and how the public was left in the dark. My colleague Jillian Finley is with me today to tell us about that investigation, and before we get started, this story contains some upsetting details. I'm Jamie Poisson, and this is Frontburner. Hi, Jillian, thank you so much for making the time to come on to the podcast today. Hi, Jamie. So one thing I was struck by watching your documentary, which I will say is so excellent, is that it's such a huge case, right? The deadliest mass shooting in modern Canadian history.

Each one of these 22 murders is so tragic. You spoke to Tyler Blair, whose dad and stepmom were killed. And I wonder if you could start today just by telling me about what he told you about his parents. What were they like? He describes them as wonderful. They're great people, very hard workers. Happy, a family that this was his father's second marriage. He had a second family, two younger step siblings, age 10 and 12. Jamie, she's like a mother to me for almost 20 years.

One of the best people you'll ever meet. Greg owned a gas installation company. He and Jamie worked at it together. She did the books. And the way Tyler describes it, they were entering a new phase of life. My father worked very hard his whole life, and he finally just became mortgage-free, debt-free. And they were looking forward to what he calls living their life. But they got cut short.

And the story of what happened to them that night, it is really hard to hear. It's very hard to hear. But I think it speaks to the larger picture of the police response here and the questions that loved ones like Tyler are still left with. So with that warning to our listeners, can you tell us about what you've learned from Tyler about what happened to his family that night on April 18th? Yeah, yeah, it's tough. I have a lot of friends that live down in the Portapique area and they said there's large fires over the tree line and that they heard it

was possible shooting. So I didn't think anything of it at first. And then I heard that it was on Port Pick Beach Road. And what Tyler knows, he obviously got from the two little boys who survived. But what he says is it started with an argument between his dad and Gabriel Wartman, the shooter. They were neighbors. It's not clear why Wartman had come to the house, but he had. It resulted in raised voices. And I think a few words were said, and they said they heard my dad yell, what the F are you doing with a gun?

And I think at that point they probably heard the gun go off. It seems that Tyler's stepmother, Jamie, must also have been outside too, because once Greg had been shot, she ran inside and she hustled the boys down the hall into a far bedroom. And my two little brothers hid behind the bed and Jamie put her back up against the interior door of their bedroom. And Wortman fired through that door, killing their mother. She was on the phone, apparently, with 911 when it happened. So she, I understand, is the first person to alert the RCMP. That's what Tyler has been told by the RCMP.

The first 911 call came from her. So the boys, having witnessed all of this, hid in a closet until they started to smell smoke. And then my little brother ran out and seen that he pulled some logs out of the fire, scattered them around on the floor, and then turned the propane range on. He had apparently thrown a bunch of hamburger buns on the flame to feed it. And, you know, these are smart boys. They realized the danger they were in, and they decided they had to run. That's when they booked it through the woods and over to the neighbor's house,

and they ran inside with Lisa McCully's two young kids. And what happened when they got there? Lisa McCulley's two young kids. And what happened when they got there? Well, it's not clear when Lisa McCulley was shot, but she was. She was such a vibrant expression of life. And she was your, you know, your classic mama bear. She was so protective of everyone. Her sister, whom we interviewed, believes that

that night as Wartman was not only killing people but setting buildings on fire. She had gone out to see these flames that were higher than the tree line and went out because she saw an RCMP officer, went out to probably ask, should we evacuate? What the heck is going on? But of course, unbeknownst to her, it was not a real police officer, but the shooter himself. She too was killed, which left four children now, the oldest of which I think was 12 or 13, all their parents dead, and a gunman on the loose. The four of them went into Lisa McCully's house, they hid in the basement.

They did have a cell phone at that point, and they called 911. And apparently they were given a code word by the operator. they called 911 and apparently they were given a code word by the operator. I think they just talked to them the whole time keeping them calm to not come out until they hear somebody come in and say that word. And then they waited and they waited and they waited and it was more than two hours later that somebody actually came in and used the code word and took them out to safety. Wow, Julian, why did these kids wait for more than two hours? It's so upsetting to think about this. These four children whose parents had just been murdered

and they're hiding in this basement for hours with no grown-ups? It shouldn't take two hours to go in and get four young kids out of an area, you know, some madman's running around with a gun. Yeah, and why is one of the many questions that people want answers to. Now, the police told Lisa McCulley's family that they always knew the kids were there, that they had stationed as many as six officers around the house to protect them. That's what they told that family. But Tyler Blair, when we asked him about that, said he had never heard that.

No one had told him that, and he doesn't think it's true. All right, that's all fine, but why wouldn't they have one more to go in? That's all fine, but why wouldn't they have one more to go in? I mean, from what you understand, do you think that there were police that were stationed around the house? I highly doubt it. You doubt it? Yeah. Why?

The RCMP have been caught in many lies already. It's hard for me to believe a word that comes out of their mouth. You know, it's not clear to him or to anyone that we talked to who was around in Portapique that night that there were even six officers in total on the scene in those early hours. So he feels especially aggrieved, knowing that children were in a vulnerable position, that there should have been a greater response

and certainly a faster effort to get them out of that at home and to safety. I want to move now to another revelation from your documentary, from another person who was shot that night who survived and called police as well. And he's never spoken publicly. What have you learned about what happened to him? Well, it's interesting because to understand the significance of that, you have to understand that in the days that followed the shooting,

the RCMP said that it wasn't until early Sunday morning, like dawn Sunday morning, that they first learned key details about the shooter that they were looking for, namely who he was, the fact that it was Gabriel Wartman, and the fact that he was impersonating an RCMP officer, including driving a fully marked replica cruiser. Prior to that time, we did not have all those details. The bulk of the details about our suspect came to us at that time. So they said they only learned that when Wartman's partner emerged from hiding Sunday morning. If you remember some of the details that came out at the time, this whole tragic incident seems to have started early in the evening when there was an argument. He beat

her and restrained her, and eventually she escapes. And her story that she tells police is that once she escaped, she laid low in the woods all night until daybreak because she was afraid. She comes out at daybreak, and the police say that it was that time, at around 6, they got from her what they called significant details. This included the fact that he was in possession of a fully marked and equipped replica RCMP vehicle and was wearing a police uniform. or a CMP vehicle and was wearing a police uniform. Now, what we learned in our investigation is that eight hours earlier at 10, to be precise, at 1026 Saturday night, police in fact encountered another witness, this one that you're referring to, who told them exactly the same information. Wow. And who is that? Well, it's interesting. He's never been identified publicly, but I can tell you a little bit.

He is a resident of Portapique who had also seen the fires burning that night. And when he went out to investigate, he met a man that he described as his neighbor, Gabriel Wartman, in a fully marked police car. I saw a gay person, saw him, and I saw his gun. He had a laser sight on the gun. I saw a gay person, saw him, and I saw his gun. He had a laser sight on the gun. In fact, he says Wortmann shot him, injured him, and it was as he was trying to escape the danger and racing down the road that he encountered the first RCMP officer arriving on the scene. And we obtained an audio tape. He wouldn't do an interview with us, but we obtained an audio tape from a statement that he later gave to a private investigator. And in that tape, he describes exactly what he told

that first RCMP officer he saw. I think I literally said, I'm not even sure, it's my neighbor Dave, and he had an RCMP officer, or an RCMP car. I knew he had those cars, but I'd never seen them badged. He ran away and grabbed his radio and radioed exactly what I told him. But he did radio that right away to somebody. So it's a little bit hard to understand, but what he's saying is that he identified the shooter as Gabriel Wartman. He was driving what he calls a badged car, a replica RCMP car, and that he told the police this at 10.26 Saturday night,

not at 6 a.m. the next morning, as the police this at 10 26 saturday night not at 6 a.m the next morning what as the police initially said and the really troubling thing is that having received that information none of it was shared with the public until 10 17 the next morning the sunday morning and by that point we now know there were 19 Nova Scotians who were dead. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here.

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What else do we know about the police response that night? You know, it's surprising to me, Jamie, that even seven months later, we don't have from the RCMP answers to even the most basic of questions. You know, how many officers did they dispatch that night? What exactly did they do when they got there? When did reinforcements arrive? None of that has been put on the public record. But the one thing the RCMP has insisted is that those who did respond, the first responders, did exactly what they were supposed to do, what their training and RCMP policy demanded that they do. Their objective was to locate and to stop that threat.

This is exactly what those RCMP first responders were working towards. Now, if that was happening, and I want to be clear, we have no evidence that it wasn't, other than the observations of some people that we've talked to who were there that night. They say, at most, they saw three police cars parked at the entrance to Portapique, and they saw no evidence of a police presence, again, for more than two hours. And two hours later is when the emergency response team arrives on scene, but they've come all the way from Halifax. So that's why there's that delay. You've also learned from a source about a fateful assumption that the RCMP made that night or as the night dragged on. And what was that assumption? The assumption was that Gabriel Wartman was most

likely dead. And this was early Sunday morning from an RCMP source who overheard a conversation, so was aware of who was saying it and what they were saying. The assumption was that he was dead. You know, they could see his properties in Portapique were burning. Presumably, based on the information they got from that witness we just spoke about, they had tracked vehicles associated with him. And they knew that there was a number of old police cars that he had. And so they had gone about trying to account for them. There were three cars that had been registered to him, and three were accounted for. There were three cars that had been registered him and three were accounted for. And based on that, the decision they made was that he was most likely inside the burning building, perhaps having died as a result of suicide. And the basic conclusion was that the threat had likely passed. And, you know, at that point, some officers were even sent home. You know, we now know, of course, that there were things that the

police didn't know that night. The fact there was a fourth unregistered police car that he was driving. And the fact that even though they'd blocked off the entrance to Portapique, there was in fact a back way out through a blueberry field. And even the police now agree that is likely how Gabriel Wortman managed to escape Portapique that night and continue on to other parts of the province. Right you talked to a guy who said everyone knew about this back road right? You think that's how he got out? It's how he got out. I know it's how he got out. They assumed he killed himself well that's good for them to assume that but if he didn't do that he drove out this road. It's the only way out of here. Yeah this this was not a secret back road. This is one that, you know, people who lived in that

neighborhood use quite routinely. And it's not a little dirt path. I mean, it's a road. You can drive down it. And he took us out to show us this. And I asked him, well, did anybody, you know, when the police arrived that night, did anybody ask you about, you know, the geography or the various ways in and out? And he said, no, nobody asked them anything. What would you have told them? They went out this road. It's just unbelievable it happened, that they assumed and then didn't know until he picked up killing. He could have been in a plane in another country if he would have played his cards right. So of course we now know that he'd spent the night parked behind a welding shop nearly 30 kilometers away from Portapique.

And in the morning he starts up his rampage again. We began receiving a second series of 911 calls. That was in an area which was more than 60 kilometers away from the Portapique area. And he drives to Wentworth where he kills four people, Sean McLeod and Alanna Jenkins, Tom Bagley and Lillian Campbell. And then he drives to DeBert where he kills two women, Heather O'Brien and Kristen Beaton. And then he kills three more people around Shubinakity, the RCMP constable Heidi Stevenson, Joey Weber, and Gina Goulet, before being shot and killed

himself by police, who essentially bumped into him at a gas station in Enfield. It's just an astonishing amount of destruction that he's able to sow before he's finally stopped by the police. And I know that it leaves the surviving families with so many questions here, even just basic questions about what happened over those 13 hours, and if any of it could have been prevented. And so what have you heard from them? Well, as you could imagine, frustration, anger, I mean, the whole range of emotions. I mean, you mentioned Nick Beaton and Darcy Dobson, Nick's wife, Kristen, and Darcy's mother, Heather. They were killed on Sunday morning, shortly after 10, so about 15 minutes before that information, that critical information about the fact that the gunman was in a police car, was shared publicly.

She was going to work early in the morning, and I, you know, 6, 7, whatever time it was, and she came in and she gave me a big kiss and a big hug, and she said, babe, you're the best. And little did I know, little did I know that would be the last one I'd have, last kiss I'd have. You know, Nick Beaton is adamant that if he had known that information earlier, there was no way that his wife would have left for work that morning. There was no way that he would have let her leave for work that morning. If the RCMP had have armed us with the

information of who he was and what they knew by 11 o'clock Saturday night, she wouldn't even been on the road. She wouldn't have been, she wouldn't have left the house. You know, me and many other Blue Noses and Nova Scotians were sitting on the front deck with their firearms, protecting their family. And she'd have been behind me. She'd have been safe. You know, and the same for Darcy Dobson. I mean, she questions, as so many Nova Scotians do, first of all, why the RCMP did not put out a province-wide emergency alert. Whoever it was who made the call not to set out an alert, there is blame there. And it would have saved my mother's life.

I believe that wholeheartedly. I think it's well established now. We know that the RCMP was communicating on Twitter, which many, many, many, many people, it seems, in Nova Scotia do not follow. Which is an absolute piss off to me and anyone I have a conversation with. Are you on Twitter? I don't know anyone. Ryan Reynolds is the only one I know on Twitter. Like, nobody I know uses Twitter.

So there's that issue. But also, again, it's just the delay in communicating important information. She also believes that if it was known that the shooter was dressed like a police officer and driving around in a replica or something that looked like an RCMP cruiser, you know, her mother would not have been out on the road either. I think it would have made a difference for my mother. I think it would have made a difference for Lillian Hislop and Kristen Beaton, Joey Weber, Gina Goulet. They failed to give the public the information they needed to stay safe. They failed at that. And I think that can be said for a number of people, especially those who were killed on Sunday morning.

And Tyler Blair, who's now caring for his two little brothers who had that unbelievably traumatizing night, he told you... The RCMP really didn't tell me jack shit. I know just as much now as I did back in April or May. What do you make of that? I don't even know. It's disgraceful. Why has so little information about what happened been shared with them or with the public? I don't know, Jamie. It is a mystery.

I don't know, Jamie. It is a mystery. You know, the RCMP has given exactly five press conferences in the months since this shooting took place. The last of them was at the beginning of June. So it's been many months now since they have said anything publicly. Initially, they said that their investigation was still continuing, and so they couldn't share any more detail. The families, in the absence of information, you probably recall, have demanded and eventually got, but they had to fight to get, the promise of a public inquiry because they feel that's the only way they're going to get answers now. Public Safety Minister Bill Blair opted for a review panel to investigate the mass shooting,

not the public inquiry. We demand answers. There were so many things that were done wrong even afterwards. We want to know why and we want to make sure this never, ever happens to another family again. The federal government changed course today in the face of mounting pressure. I guess, I don't know if it's an irony or what it is, but it's just, the fact is that the RCMP are now saying, well, because there's a public inquiry coming, you know, once again, they can't share any more information. And it's the same reason they gave for not doing an interview with us or even without talking to us at all. You know, there's a couple

of things that I think are important here. One is that that public inquiry is not going to happen for a long time. And they're saying it probably won't start for a year, report probably two years. And the fact that we know any information now, it shouldn't be lost that that is because media organizations, including the CBC, have been taking the RCMP and the province to court to force them to make disclosures. So the fact that I can even stand here today and tell you the little bits that I know is in large part because of those efforts. I don't know why the RCMP won't be more forthcoming. We certainly tried our best, and I know the families have tried their best to get answers. But, you know, seven months after the worst mass shooting in this country's history, you know, this is where we're at. Okay. Jillian Finley, thank you so much.

Thank you. All right, so before we go today, an update on yesterday's story about coronavirus in Alberta. On Tuesday, Premier Jason Kenney declared a state of public health emergency. He introduced a number of new mandatory measures, including a ban on all indoor social gatherings. These gatherings in the home continue to be the largest source of transmission, and so they must stop now. Effective this Friday, we are temporarily closing certain businesses for in-person service in select regions. This includes the closure of banquet halls, conference centres and concert venues. Retail businesses and services may remain open but will be restricted to 25% of occupancy limits. In-person dining and

bars, restaurants, pubs and cafes can continue but we'll need to comply with our guidelines very carefully. On November 30, all students in grades 7 through 12 will end in-person schooling for the balance of 2020, and on December 18, all students will begin their winter breaks. The news came as the province reported 13,349 active cases of coronavirus, by far the highest number yet. That's all for today. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner, and we'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.