Front Burner - A bid to upend drug laws in Vancouver

Episode Date: November 20, 2020

Vancouver mayor Kennedy Stewart wants to decriminalize small amounts of illegal drugs. If he gets his way, Vancouver will be the first Canadian city to do so. The move comes as overdose deaths continue to surge in Vancouver and across the country. CBC Vancouver producer Jodie Martinson has been speaking to drug users in the city. She’ll explain the significance and limitations of the possible change.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. This year, we've had 328 deaths due to overdoses. Our drug supply here is totally poisoned with opioids.

There's overdoses all the time with 328 deaths. That's one a day. So this week, Mayor Kennedy Stewart announced a proposal that, if approved, will make Vancouver a first in Canada. The first city that has decriminalized the possession of small amounts of illegal drugs. The move comes as overdose deaths continue to surge not only in Vancouver, but across BC and the country. In the last three months, we've had overdoses skyrocketing in the City of Toronto. Alarming numbers released by the province Wednesday as Alberta's COVID-19 opioid response

surveillance report paints a picture of the first half of 2020. We are, as you know, facing two health crises. One for the past eight months and the other for many years now. Today we're talking to CBC Vancouver producer Jodi Martinson. She's been speaking to drug users in the city, and she'll explain just how significant this change could be. This is Frontburner. Hi, Jodi. Thank you so much for making the time to chat with me today. Hi, Jamie. Thanks for having me.

So I was hoping you could start by painting me a picture of the overdose crisis in Vancouver right now. What's the state of affairs in your city? Well, why don't we start with the numbers and then I'll tell you more about what that looks like on the streets. Well, why don't we start with the numbers and then I'll tell you more about what that looks like on the streets. So in BC, the latest month that we have numbers for from the coroner is in September. And in September, four or five people died each day from drugs in BC. The toxic illicit drug supply continues to have a profound and tragic impact on the people of British Columbia. have a profound and tragic impact on the people of British Columbia. In July 2020, there were 175 suspected illicit drug toxicity deaths.

This represents a 136% increase over the number of deaths in July 2019. Where that sits within the broader trends that we had been seeing in drug deaths is that we were really at you know, at a spike in 2017, 2018, and things had started to calm down a little bit in 2019, and then the pandemic. And now we're right back up. So, so far this year, about 1200 people, more than 1200, because we're, you know, the numbers are always lagging by a few weeks. So more than 1,200 people have died in BC because of drugs. And by comparison, COVID has killed 320 people here. The number of people dying in BC due to an unsafe drug supply continues to surpass deaths due to homicides, motor vehicle accidents, suicides, and COVID-19 combined.

Wow. Those are astounding numbers. This is something that we've talked about on the podcast before, but briefly, can you remind me, why has the pandemic exacerbated the overdose crisis? Dr. Bonnie Henry has talked about that, and so has BC's chief coroner, and they have both said you know the border closures have meant there's been more production locally and that whatever's being produced locally in the

drug supply is even more toxic than what people were getting before. It's also dismaying to know that all of the work that we have done around responding to COVID-19 has been a contributing factor to the numbers of deaths that we're seeing from the toxic drug supply here in British Columbia and across Canada. We know the toxicity of the drug supply is extreme. And backing up just for people who don't pay attention to the news around drug use, this whole issue of deaths really started because the drug supply started to be contaminated by things like fentanyl.

And it went from being something, you know, the illegal drugs went from being something that people kind of knew what they were getting to something that was very random. And people couldn't predict that the drugs they were buying and consuming would affect them the same way each time they were using them. The mayor of Vancouver has also said that some of the restrictions that we've put in place because of COVID have contributed. So for example, in Vancouver, single room occupancy hotels, these are the hotels, the rooms in the downtown east side that a lot of our most marginalized people live in. You used to be able to have a visitor come into your room and now you can't because of the COVID restrictions. And so that means more people are using alone. The reason people are overdosing is because they inject on their own, use drugs on their own, overdose, and there's nobody there to call for help or revive them. You also said fewer

people are going to the safe consumption sites that we have in the city, the places where you can inject or use your drugs with someone watching over you who has a naloxone kit and some training to bring you back if you do overdose. So those are some of the factors. Talk to me about what this looks like on the streets. Well, I live very close to the downtown east side. And, you you know when COVID first started and a lot of us stayed home you could go out on the streets and it was almost like the only people you saw out or the vast majority of the people you saw out were people who were on drugs people who were really struggling people who were homeless who were not well, who often appeared to be suffering with

some kind of mental illness. And it was really dark for me personally. I really care a lot about this issue, do a lot of stories about this issue. And it felt as hard as those early days of COVID were for a variety of reasons. One of the reasons that it was very hard for me was just to see what had happened to our city. It is not uncommon, I would say it's a daily occurrence, that I pass someone who's passed out and I stand there and I watch to see if they're breathing. And because I've talked to so many parents of drug users and I talked to so many drug users themselves, you know, these are these, users and I talk to so many drug users themselves. You know, these are these, I see this complex web of people who care about this person, who love this person. And I sit there and I watch to see if they're breathing. And that is a daily occurrence for me. So the drug toxicity is something that feels like it's part of the experience of walking around in Vancouver.

It affects everybody, whether you're on it or not, because you've got to walk by and treat everybody like they're your brother and sister. So if you see your family down there doing this and they're getting treated bad, what would you do? Because it is your family still, right? So that's what it is. This is a devastating picture that you've painted, Jodi. And I guess it's in this context that the mayor, Kennedy Stewart, he wants Vancouver to become the first city to decriminalize the possession of small amounts of illegal drugs. And why? What's his reasoning? Why does he think this would help the current situation? His rationale is really around stigma. If we destigmatize drug

use, it will move people into the more mainstream health care system and that should reduce drug deaths. Like we have deaths all over our city from all kinds of different income levels and all kinds of backgrounds. And so this isn't, you know, every life is important, but I think you have to know what a widespread epidemic this is. And so he believes that by, you know, every life is important, but I think you have to know what a widespread epidemic this is. And so he believes that by, you know, decriminalizing possession of drugs, small amounts for personal use, you start to address the stigma problem and stop seeing it as a criminal issue, start to see it as a health issue. And he's not alone in that. In the medical community here in BC, this is not a controversial call. And I am calling again on the federal government to take this to heart.

And there's no more important time for us to do that than now, when we are seeing this not only here in BC, but across the country. Dr. Bonnie Henry herself, her predecessor, Dr. Perry Kendall, who you've spoken to before, many practicing physicians, they have all been calling for this for a long time. And drug users themselves have called for it. Their family members and other activists. People are doing the best they can to cope with a really hard world. You know, I really don't believe that drug users should be criminalized for it. And then I think it's really notable that the chiefs of police have been calling for decriminalization, including Vancouver's chief, Adam Palmer.

We do think that addiction is not against the law and addiction should not be treated as a crime. Let's look at another method where we work with justice and health care and we come up with a way that will be better for serving all Canadians and getting them on the right path. So in terms of timing, it's interesting because our minister, our federal minister of health, Patty Hajdu, is herself, you know, well informed from her own work on harm reduction and the issues of drug addiction and homelessness, because she comes from, you know, working on the front lines in Thunder Bay. And so the mayor of Vancouver has said that he sees her as a potential supporter of this, that he knows that she understands the issues and that she's likely to get behind this if he can convince her. Right. And I want to get to the role of the feds in a moment and how this might

actually come to pass. But you mentioned drug users here, and I want to talk about the reactions you heard from the people who will be most affected by this, and that's the drug users themselves. And you headed out to the downtown east side after this announcement, and can you tell me about what you heard from people there? Sure. So it was a pouring, raining, just like soak you just right through. And people had lined up all along Hastings Street to wait to get into a bank there. It was check day. And so that's a kind of notorious day each month when people get their welfare checks. And we often see a spike in overdoses that day. There was a long line of people waiting and I just sort of

walked down the line and found people who would be willing to share their thoughts with me and of course most of them hadn't heard the news. You heard about the call for decriminalization today from the mayor? No. So the mayor is asking the federal government to decriminalize. So I kind of filled them in on the news and And, you know, I heard a mix of things. Some people said, you know, the police are already mostly doing that. You know, they mostly don't hassle people. They don't bother you for drug use. They don't charge people for using drugs.

The mayor of Vancouver himself said that we're kind of operating in a de facto decriminalized way already. If people are caught with small amounts of drugs, they're not sent to the Crown prosecutor. There's no charges. Others said the problem isn't that the police will charge you. The problem is the police might harass you. They'll take your drugs. Anywhere else I go, I'll get arrested.

Or not even arrested, harassed is the word. I mean, I get pulled out at gunpoint while I'm on the job. And for no reason. I have no record. I out at gunpoint while I'm on the job. And for no reason. I have no record. I have nothing. Just because I look the way I look. We all scatter when the police come. I see things a little differently. Why does that matter that they scatter? Then what? Well, they scatter. They're not coming in here to use the services.

If they run away, they're not coming in. So they're going to use it in an alley somewhere, in a closet somewhere, where they're going to die potentially, right? They also talked about, I've heard in the past many times, a criticism of the police parking themselves close to the supervised injection sites and that acting as a deterrent for some people who don't want anything to do with the police. everybody's, like, take all their belongings and tell them to beat it. It's just like, wow, they're supposed to be serving and protecting, not ganging up on people, right? I heard a range of opinions like that and a lot of, you know, and a general sense that this is certainly a step in the right way, that yes, this is a health issue. You mentioned complaints that the police would take people's drugs. I read in the TAI that a community advocate in the downtown east side

filed this Freedom of Information request that revealed between 2017 and 2020, police officers have confiscated small amounts of drugs literally thousands of times there, 7,500 recorded seizures of less than a gram alone. Yeah, they just take them and go and we walk away. Just have to work and hustle and get some more money for, that's it. The hustle is everything, right? And so, you know, though drug users might not be charged for their drug use, their drugs are still being taken away from them. And will this decriminalization allow people to keep their drugs? Well, I guess that's the big question from drug users. I've heard from people who say,

you know, when the police take your drugs, I ask people, what do you do? And I remember one young man telling me, well, I'm not proud of this, but it means more crime, more petty crime. I remember another mother telling me that for her daughter who was involved in sex work, when the police take her drugs, it means more sex work to get the money to buy the drugs. You know, people are terrified of feeling dope sick. It's an awful experience. And so when the police take the drugs, it's not like they give up using drugs. They just have to work harder. Someone also told me that when the police take the drugs that they have, it sometimes forces them to scramble and end up buying drugs from a

dealer they don't trust. So those are some of the ways that drug users themselves say, you know, So those are some of the ways that drug users themselves say, you know, decriminalization, sure. But the real issue is we just need to not be hassled by the police when we have drugs in our possession. They could stay like 500 feet away from a facility like this. There's absolutely no need for them. There's nothing in here that nobody in here wants to see them. The other thing I heard from drug users is that the Vancouver police are kind of with it, that they're progressive and that they've thought through these issues.

And some drug users will say that they get a sense that police officers understand the problems and that they're not out there to make it a life harder for most drug users. Vancouver police, generally, I know, because I know a few cops that do outreach, they're pretty good in connectivity.

They know their environment. Yeah, so we are lucky that way. The police this week themselves talked about being kind of the people out on the streets that are checking in the stairwells, checking in the dark corners for people who are passed out. In many ways, the Vancouver police on the streets that are checking in the stairwells, checking in the dark corners for people who are passed out. In many ways, the Vancouver police understand the issue more than most people would in our city. They see it up close all the time.

Right, right. You're hearing a lot of mixed opinions there, as I'm sure it's like a super nuanced issue on the streets as well. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen

my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Cops. So this plan for decriminalization in Vancouver, it has some hurdles to get over. City Council, for one. But more significantly, and I want to loop back to Health Minister Patty Hajdu here, I think is the federal government.

here, I think, is the federal government. Mayor Kennedy Stewart's plan to decriminalize involves essentially asking the federal government for permission for an exemption. So, you know, I know you mentioned earlier that Minister Hajdu could be a real ally here, but is the federal government going to approve this, do you think? I'm not sure what will happen. We heard from a Liberal MP for downtown Vancouver here, Hedy Fry, and she, before she got into politics, was a family physician. She really kind of refused to answer this question of whether the government would embrace that. But she also mentioned the ways that Vancouver has already received some exemptions in the past. This is not unprecedented. When I was minister within Jean Chrétien's cabinet,

I was given charge at the time by the prime minister to look at the issue of overdue estates in the city of Vancouver that occurred mainly and only in the downtown east side. And the mayor had asked for this particular exemption so that we could start Insight, which is a safe injection site. And I'll add to that that we have here in Vancouver over the years asked Prime Minister Trudeau to take a stand on this issue and to commit one way or the other. And to date, he has not said that he would be actively supporting decriminalization. But this exemption gives

him a loophole. What Hedy Fry, MP, said is that it allows a jurisdiction to say, just for this little boundary, just for the city of Vancouver, and so people in other provinces where harm reduction isn't as palatable, where the general consensus of the public is that it's not needed, that it wouldn't be a good thing, they wouldn't have to do it across Canada. They could do it just for Vancouver. I think Kennedy Stewart has done an extraordinarily important move in requesting that, and he has said it should only take place within the boundaries of the city of Vancouver. He's speaking as the mayor of this city. Great. Can you elaborate on that a little bit more for me? The idea that Trudeau hasn't come out in support of this sooner and stronger, right?

I think in any crisis like this, there is not one silver bullet. I think we know that there are massive, you know, different angles and perspectives on this that we have to take. Like, why is this issue often treated like it's politically toxic? I don't think that the general pulse of Vancouver, downtown Vancouver, and how people feel here about harm reduction approaches and about decriminalization is the same that someone's going to feel in a different part of the country, especially more rural parts where addiction is hidden behind closed doors. It's not out on the streets. You don't see it every day. So I'm sure that's the political calculation that the liberals federally have to do right now. They have to figure out how this will play in parts of the

country that aren't going to be understanding at this very, you know, places where you're not going to understand in this way because you walk down the street and see the difference harm reduction makes. How do you explain it to people in those parts of the country? Right, right. I know the polling on this is like 53% of the country currently opposes this. I do talk with mayors across the city, across the country frequently. They're starting to see opioids sneak into their drug supplies. They're starting to get not the same level of overdoses, deaths, but similar levels.

And this isn't stopping, and it's coming to a city near you. All I think about is that tomorrow when I wake up as mayor, there will be another person who's died of an overdose here in the city, and that is totally unacceptable. One last question before we go. You know, this argument that Trudeau makes that this isn't a silver bullet. What do you hear from drug users? Do they also think that decriminalization isn't the silver bullet here that isn't the only answer? What would they like to see happen to deal with this horrendous epidemic? I think some drug users are, you know, just want stability, something that's safe, something that they don't have to hustle so hard to get access to. There's also a group of drug users who want treatment,

a group of drug users who have tried the various treatment options that are available at this point and have found that the sort of abstinence approach, the approach that kicks you out when you relapse doesn't work for them, that they need something that has a bit more flexibility as they go through their addiction healing process, that relapse is part of recovery. And so I think probably a lot of people would agree with that, that it is no magic bullet to solving this problem. It's just one step along the way. And Mayor Kennedy Stewart himself said that. He said, this is not the solution. This is a part of the solution. Recently, I spoke to a mom and dad in the Victoria area, and they, in October, stood up in court. In front of the judge and asked that our son be kept in jail.

Each time, we put one more nail in the coffin of our relationship with Lachlan, and we take those risks, hoping that we can put him into a facility. And that never happens. And that's after several attempts in different treatment programs, where he lasted a week or a few weeks at best. Their son, who is a victim of a brain tumor that he suffered when he was 15 and has an ADHD diagnosis, they've a long list of all the efforts they've made to try to get him psychiatric help and help for his addiction. And ultimately, they came to a point where they felt like the safest place for him right now with fentanyl on the streets, with his physical state right now, was jail. Does he have to have near-death experiences before somebody forces him into treatment?

He's trying to kill himself every single day, multiple times a day. The scars that he carries are all in his brain. You know, as parents, if your kid was putting a gun to his head, you know, many times a day and playing Russian roulette, wouldn't we want to intervene? And so decriminalization is certainly part of it, but this family is well past the point of stigma. They're telling me their story out of desperation to try to get their son help. For them, it is much more about, okay, after decriminalization, after we deal with the stigma, we really need just some options. We need a place where our son can go, where he won't get kicked out, because we know at this point with fentanyl and the dangerous drug supply, we know that when you relapse that it's a really dangerous time for you.

Right. Just imagine getting to that place as parents. That's such a difficult story to hear. Jodi Martinson, thank you so much for this conversation. And I hope that you'll come back. I'd love to. Anytime. Thank you so much.

All right, so before we go today, yesterday, Environment and Climate Change Minister Jonathan Wilkinson unveiled new anti-climate change legislation. It aims to force current and future governments to cut greenhouse gas emissions by setting binding climate targets. The goal is to get to net zero by 2050. The bill, however, does not set out specific details about how the governments will reach those targets. Instead, it calls for the creation of an outside 15-member advisory board of experts, scientists and Indigenous representatives that will advise the Minister on how to achieve net zero. That is all for this week. FrontBurner is brought to you by CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show was produced this week by Imogen Burchard, Elaine Chao, Allie Janes, Katie Toth, and Derek Vanderwyk. With help this week from our intern, Ashley Fraser, whose last day is today. Thank you, Ashley, for all your hard work.

This week, our sound design was by Mandy Sham and Matt Cameron. Our music is by Joseph Shabison of Boombox Sound. The executive producer of FrontBurner is Nick McCabe-Locos. And I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening and we will see you on Monday. For more CBC Podcasts,

go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.