Front Burner - A Crucifix, A Mystery Illness and a Refugee

Episode Date: August 5, 2019

In nine months, Front Burner has covered a lot of stories. But we haven’t had time to follow up on all of them. Today, we revisit a handful, including the mystery illness that befell Canadian diplomats in Cuba, the law in Quebec to outlaw religious garb for public servants, and the odyssey of a Syrian refugee who moved to Canada after living in an airport for months. Plus, how a country rap oddity became the biggest song of 2019.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. I'm Jamie Poisson. This is FrontBurner. So in the nine months that we've been making this show, we've covered a lot of ground. And for big stories, we've made multiple episodes. I'm thinking SNC-Lavalin, Huawei and Meng Wanzhou, climate change, big tech, extremism.

But there's a few stories we haven't had a chance to follow up on. So today, we're going to update some of them, including a mysterious illness that hit Canadian diplomats in Cuba. There's actually a bunch of new theories that have been thrown out. Different theories than the ones that we went through at Doug. Completely different. Quebec's legislation around religious symbols worn by public servants. The distinction between religion as a historical artifact and religion as a kind of living, breathing aspect of Quebec's culture is vague sometimes.

And the story of a man who lived in an airport before finding refuge in British Columbia. It looks like it meant to be that I need to use my platforms, my voice, my connections to help others. That and much more coming up on FrontBurner. So let's start today with a mystery. In October, we spoke to Doug Saunders from the Globe and Mail about a mysterious condition hitting diplomats in Cuba. People are calling it Havana syndrome. And first, it was hitting Americans. They had sudden moments where they felt like suddenly there was a ringing

in their ear and they felt dizzy and symptoms like something had hit them. And that drew a lot of alarm to Washington authorities, to the embassy there. And I think it got noticed a lot because a lot of the U.S. embassy staff who were getting these sudden attacks, at least four of them were CIA agents. So there was an immediate mood that something's being done to our people. And they sent in investigators and the investigators would go to get off an airplane and check into hotels and walk into a hotel room and suddenly get hit with this whatever feeling it was. Ultimately, 40 Americans had symptoms. After the Americans started coming home, 12 Canadians had the same thing.

Nausea, disorientation. They all had symptoms of a concussion, but none of the physical trauma that comes with it. It appears some officials were exposed to a sonic device. Explanations ranged from a high-tech attack by a nefarious government to psychosomatic mass hysteria. Starting in the summer of 2017, various groups in the United States of researchers began to test theories about what this could have been. The idea of it being an ultrasonic sound weapon, at least of the sort that they knew well,

it didn't seem to fit that in terms of the nature of the injuries. So then speculation turned to what they called an energy weapon, something using microwaves, directed beams. Certainly people who work in certain high power broadcast industries have had injuries when they accidentally stepped in front of a really big high-powered transmitter that are somewhat consistent with this. You can have those type of brain injuries, although you usually have a bunch of other things like bad inner ear injuries and maybe your eyes popping and things like that, right? So it didn't completely fit with that.

It didn't completely fit with that. Here are some other theories. Maybe it was old surveillance technology that malfunctioned. Or maybe it was the work of Russian intelligence agents. They have animosity toward both Canada and the United States. Russia had been sending lots of spy ships to Cuba in recent years. There's been a real warming of relations between Russia and Cuba. It's not really easy to understand why Russia might want to do something like that, but Putin likes dirty tricks. Many of the Canadian diplomats affected told Doug Saunders they wanted a public

inquiry into what happened, because it's still really unclear why any Canadian personnel were hit. Canada has had cordial diplomatic relations with Cuba all along, even during its very dark years. Canada has complex economic and trade relations. Canadians go to Cuba as tourists. Tons of tourists. And always have, partly because there's no Americans there. It's a whole different thing. It's hard to imagine anybody in Cuba wanting to attack the Canadians. Well, since then, we've learned a lot more about what the Havana Syndrome actually did to its victims. Chris Berube produced the original episode and has been following this story for the

past few months. Chris Berube, good day to you, sir. Jamie Poisson, how's it going? It is going very well. So, 40 American diplomats are affected by the Havana syndrome, right? And they've been taken care of at the University of Pennsylvania and doctors scan their brains. What did they find out? So I actually talked to one of the doctors who was doing the brain scans. And what she said is the brains of many of the diplomats have actually

changed. So they've had a reduction in something called white matter. So you know how the brain has gray matter? There's also something called white matter, which is like the tubes in the brain or the wires, like it's the stuff that connects all the parts of the brain together. What they found at the University of Pennsylvania is that a lot of these diplomats have less white matter than they normally would. Wow. And how is that affecting them? It actually just makes it a lot harder to do the stuff that your brain is normally capable of. So a reduction in white matter is something that you see from a lot of people who've had concussions.

So it is a post-concussion situation. And so do we know what caused this then? Not really. I mean, here's the thing, is talking to the doctor at the University of Pennsylvania, she said, we can say that the brain has changed, but just by scanning it, we can't say what caused it. So since the last update that we've had,

there's actually a bunch of new theories that have been thrown out. Different theories than the ones that we went through with Doug. Completely different. So we've had three new theories that are getting a lot of traction. So do you want to hear them? Yes. What's the first? The first one, crickets did it. What? Crickets, yeah. So there is this very high-pitched tonal noise that the AP put out.

Do you remember this from the first story? Yes. They put out this noise. They're like, this is the noise that a lot of these diplomats heard right before they started experiencing the concussion syndromes. It's just like this very kind of high-pitched annoying sound. So there's this entomologist in England named Fernando Montalegre Zapata, and he heard the noise and he went, oh, yeah, I totally recognize that. That is a mating call from the Indies short-tailed cricket. Huh.

And he recognized it because when he was a kid, he used to collect all these crickets together and he put them in a cage in his bedroom. And then sometimes in the middle of the night, he would wake up when the crickets started making this really high-pitched, annoying sound. So he's like, it's the same sound. People analyzed it. They're like, yeah, actually, it's a pretty similar tone. So that's where this theory has come from, that crickets caused this to happen. But was his brain damaged from these crickets or like was anybody else damaged in Cuba? Like why just these small groups of people in Cuba?

Yeah, that's where the flaw comes in in this theory is that the only evidence we have is the similarity between the cricket tone and the tone the diplomats heard. There's no evidence these crickets have ever hurt anybody, let alone given people brain damage. OK, let's talk about the second theory. So the second theory, and this one's getting a lot of traction, is that China has something to do with this. So this is because there is a U.S. diplomat named Mark Lindsay, who is part of a U.S. delegation in Guangzhou, China, who in 2017 started complaining of similar symptoms to what the diplomats were getting in Havana. So Lindsay has gone on record saying that he thinks that it's the same thing that happened in Cuba, and he has urged the Canadian and American

governments to look into it and make sure that their diplomats aren't vulnerable who are in China right now. And the theory goes, China, Canada, the U.S. are all having, you know, not their best diplomatic time, especially over the Meng Wanzhou situation. Fair. And have they looked into it? Any evidence that this is true? are all having, you know, not their best diplomatic time, especially over the Meng Wanzhou situation. And have they looked into it? Any evidence that this is true? Well, we don't really have evidence for this. I mean, this is where this theory falls apart is sure, Canada and China are having a tense diplomatic moment. But then China's response is to attack Canadian diplomats who are in Cuba and not take credit for it with a sonic weapon, like it kind of the logic of it is very hard to follow. Right, right. And this was before the whole ordeal with Meng Wanzhou.

Right, exactly. And you mentioned three theories. Let's talk about the third one. So the third one, and there's a big Vanity Fair article that was really pushing this one, is that it is psychosomatic. I've heard this one. Yeah. Psychosomatic means that it's in the diplomat's heads. It doesn't mean it's not real. It means that they are experiencing all of these physical ailments as a result of something that's happening with them psychologically, like it's not being caused by an external

factor necessarily. And this might have even caused the change to the white matter in their brains. Yeah. So this is where this theory becomes tricky because there is definitely evidence that people have had psychosomatic events across a group of people before. There's evidence that people feel pain often when they're experiencing something psychosomatically. I don't think there's evidence showing that people have had like actual brain damage as a result of a psychosomatic incident. So that's where this theory kind of falls apart when you start thinking about it. This is nuts to me that no one's gotten to the

bottom of this. Yeah. I mean, this is one of those updates where we haven't solved it. I feel like the update is that the mystery keeps deepening as more people are looking into it. And there's lots of people who are now saying like they don't know if we're ever going to get to the bottom of what caused Havana syndrome. Wow. Chris, thank you. Thank you, Jamie. A story that we got a lot of response from is Quebec's so-called secularism bill, the one that aims to prevent public sector employees

from wearing religious symbols. This is the fourth time the province has taken a run at legislating this issue. This time it was the province's governing party, the Coalition Avenir Quebec or the CAQ. As CBC reporter Jonathan Montpetit told us, the bill prohibited everyone from wearing religious symbols like yarmulkes or hijabs from pages in the legislature to hospital employees. It adds this new category, and for the CEQ, that includes public school teachers and public school principals. And this has been one of the big flashpoints of concern. Let's just take the example of somebody who wears a hijab who's a teacher in Montreal. Now, the law does provide for a grandfather clause. They would not be forced to remove the hijab immediately. But it only

applies if they don't move positions. So, you know, so suddenly, everyone who wears a hijab is going to get locked into their position, can't move around for fear of losing the right to express their religious freedom. And these questions for the moment are theoretical, but once the bill becomes law, these are real people's lives who will have to negotiate these new regulations. Kids, they love me. They don't even notice that you have a veil.

They just notice the person you are. I will still go to work until it's really clear that we can't be wearing a veil while teaching, I will move. A big topic of debate around the bill was how it would be applied. For example, would it require a big crucifix in the Quebec legislature to be taken down? What about the crosses in schools across the province? Would Christians have to comply with this law or would it be applied unfairly to Muslims and Jewish Canadians?

apply with this law or would it be applied unfairly to Muslims and Jewish Canadians? In May, we spoke to a young Muslim woman who is worried the legislation would stop her from becoming a lawyer in the province. I always wanted to be, it's called an administrative judge in the immigration law. Okay. And so, which means that I would have to work for the government. But now my dream is crushed. But not only this, when I will be a lawyer, the thing is that clients will want to win. So they will think about their best interest. And they will look at me and falsely think that it might, you know, be too risky to have to work with a hijabi woman. So

they will go with another lawyer. So the bill passed in June, but many people predicted it would face a court challenge. And it has, despite the use of the notwithstanding clause by the province. Basically what the notwithstanding clause does is it removes the possibility of the bill from being challenged in court on grounds that it violates religious freedom. on grounds that it violates religious freedom. However, other parts of the Charter that cannot be covered by the notwithstanding clause, like gender equality, and so he was pointing out that if people challenge the law on the fact that it may violate gender equality, then there's nothing the notwithstanding clause can do to protect it.

Jonathan now joins us from Montreal. John, hello. Hey, Jamie. So nice to have you back on the podcast. Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure to be on. So since passing this bill, I know that they took down the crucifix in the Quebec legislature. And what did they do with it? They've put it in a display outside the legislative chamber. And so now it is considered a historical artifact. You know, people can come and

see the crucifix that was once hanging in the Salon Bleu, where the M&A sit, and like a museum artifact and no longer part of the legislative apparatus. And what's been the response to that move? longer part of the legislative apparatus. And what's been the response to that move? I think a lot of people feel it helps make the government message around secularism a bit more coherent. How could you really talk about secularizing Quebec society when you still had a crucifix in the room where elected officials debate and pass laws. Other people I've spoken to in a lot of rural areas, though, feel it was a bit unfair. Quebec shouldn't have to kind of give up its cultural symbols. And a lot of people kind of feel like it was, in fact, too accommodating towards,

you know, diversity and multicultural attitudes. And so the response hasn't been uniform, but certainly I think among the chattering classes, so to speak, it's seen as making the government legislation more coherent. You know, it's interesting, the idea here being that there are people in Quebec that see the crucifix more as a cultural symbol than a religious one. Yeah, and I think that kind of speaks to how fraught a lot of the debate is and what that line in Quebec is between religion as a culture and religion as a religion, so to speak. It's very hard to go around the province in Quebec, just in, you know, old buildings and not see crosses and crucifixes are kind of everywhere. and not see crosses and crucifixes are kind of everywhere. Just because it was taken out in the National Assembly doesn't mean that, you know,

there's still lots of classrooms, there's still some courthouses, and that's kind of being debated whether or not they should be taken out of courthouses. And, you know, there are old hospitals, you know, that have kind of been chiseled onto the walls. And so the distinction between religion as a historical artifact and religion as a kind of living, breathing aspect of Quebec's culture is vague sometimes. I know it's something that we talked about the last time that we spoke as well, just how complicated and messy this new law is. Let's talk about the law itself. It's now been challenged in court. What happened with that? The court challenge kind of contained two things. One was a broader constitutional challenge,

and the other part was an injunction. So basically, these two civil rights groups, they asked the court to freeze the application of certain parts of the law. The court said, no, we can't. Basically, we're going to defer in this case to the duly elected National Assembly. It would be very unusual for me, a sitting judge, to kind of freeze an application of a law that was passed according to the Constitution legally. So he said the bar is very high for him to impose an injunction. Now, that said, that doesn't affect the broader constitutional challenge that these

groups have mounted against the law. That is still before the courts, and that will get a fuller hearing later on. They have also appealed the decision to reject the injunction. So we may still see a judge asked to weigh on the injunction request. So, I mean, I know it's a bit complicated, but I think what's important to remember is that just because the bill, the law, I should say, invokes notwithstanding clause, groups are still trying to find ways to challenge its constitutionality. One question I had for you is how you think this is going to play into the upcoming federal election. So that's a very interesting question. And so the Bloc Québécois supports the legislation. It supports the law on secularism.

And it's saying it wants to defend Quebec's right to pass this law. It's kind of acting as a spokesperson for the Quebec government in this respect. All the other federal parties have said they're against it. However, they've, according to a lot of people, kind of soft-pedaled their criticism. And people are wondering, well, shouldn't the federal government and those who aspire to make up the federal government take a more aggressive line on it? Shouldn't they say, you know, we're going to intervene in a court challenge? Shouldn't they say, you know, we're going to seek to repeal the legislation, which, you know, they have the power to do, but which obviously would be very fraught politically

in Quebec with the federal government to do that. For the federal government to intervene in something that a province has done, particularly Quebec. Exactly. Can you imagine Ottawa undoing a law that was passed by a democratically elected provincial government?

It would be explosive, to say the least. When you're talking about soft peddling, what are they doing now? And why do you think the prime minister is not being more vocal? I think it's dicey for him. So his party is doing well in the polls in Quebec. However, when you go into a lot of the areas where the legislation is popular, Justin Trudeau is not very popular. And he still hopes to win in those areas. I mean, if you look at where the federal

liberals hope to pick up votes in Quebec, a lot of it's from the kind of crumbling base of the NDP. The NDP obviously had this big surge in Quebec in 2011. And since then, their support has kind of slowly crumbled away. And now it's looking like, you know, being a real tough spot in this election. This is at least an electoral calculus. And I'm not saying that's the only thing that's informing Justin Trudeau's view. But from a purely electoral strategy, it may be difficult for him to come overly strong against Bill 21, given that it's so popular in Quebec at the moment, and it does have the support of the Quebec government. Does he want to be picking a fight with Premier Legault at the same time that he's going around to a lot of ridings outside of Montreal and trying to pick up votes?

Well, I have a feeling that you and I are probably going to be talking about this more in the coming weeks and other things as well. John, thanks so much for this update. My pleasure, Jamie. Okay, so here's an update I have been very much looking forward to. In November, we talked to Hassan Al-Khantour. His story was incredible. A Syrian refugee stuck in an airport for seven months. He thought living there was a safer bet than risking leaving and getting sent back to Syria. He had to sleep on the floor. So the people who are sad or upset because their planes are delayed for some hours, show me yourself. It's a long corridor. It's not that long, three or four minutes the distance, and a bunch of some chairs. And I found a spot under the

escalator where I was sleeping with an access to two bathrooms. And that was it. While in the airport, there was a bombing back in his hometown, he said it was terrifying to worry about whether his family was safe. Hassan said he missed them all the time, a feeling he had to wrestle with after he received sponsorship to become a refugee in Canada. I did not see them since 2008. I lost my father in 2016. I could not attend the funeral. I lost my brother's wedding because I am wanted in Syria. Even my sister, she lost her husband in 2013. I could not be there. So I almost, not almost, I missed all the opportunities and the times they need me the most to stand next to them and to be with them. and next to them and to be with them. I just want another hug with my mother and see my brother and sister.

When we talked to Hassan, he was still settling into his new life in Canada, and he had a few things on his checklist. My name is Hassan Kuntar. I'm 37 years old, originally from Syria and single. I will start working on that. I could not before, but I will go start working on that. It's on my list. Yeah, although you're getting marriage proposals already from all over the world so lucky me but where was that the last for the last 37 years i don't know yeah but it happens

at the end hello hassan are you there i I'm here, yes. Hello. Hello, it's Jamie Poisson from the CBC. Hi, how are you? Good, how are you doing? I'm doing well, thank you very much. I'm sorry for the delay, I was at work. Not at all, it's so nice to be able to catch up with you. Hassan, how are you doing? What's your life been like since we talked in the fall? So far, so good. Nothing to complain about. I moved to Vancouver two months ago. Now I'm living in Kitsilano. I'm working in a restaurant. Oh,

fantastic. What kind of restaurant? It's an organic restaurant. I'm working there as a barista. I'm in love with coffee. So why not to make living outfit? It's a temporary thing. It's not what I want to do. It's not what I want to do. It's not what I feel that I'm meant to do. But for the time being, it's good enough to pay my bills, pay my taxes and see things. I'm trying different things as well. I'm still involved in public speaking across Canada to bring more awareness about the refugee crisis. And I'm working as a volunteer in a humanitarian organization here in Vancouver, D.C.

That's wonderful. And how are you enjoying Vancouver? Do you like it? I'm in love with the city, actually. I love it, both people and the nature. It's the diversity here, so many different cultures, ways of thinking, so many different types of music or food. People are nice, kind. I felt that all across Canada, actually. It's a country where I call defined by rules and guided by kindness. That's such a wonderful way to describe this country. You mentioned that while you love being a barista, it's not exactly what you want to be doing for the rest of your life. What do you want to do? Well, I will be the man from the airport no matter what.

Even if I forget about him, he's not going to forget about me. And because of that and because of the media storm, I went through people from all over the world, the hopeless people, the powerless people, including Syrian or any other nationality, they are still reaching out to me, asking for help or to tell their stories. So it looks like it meant to be.

I need to use my platforms, my voice, my connections to help others. That's why, for example, I pitched an idea for CBC broadcast. Oh, fantastic. We would love to have you here. Well, so far, the results are not so good. What I was thinking about, people know about refugees. They hear about us from the news.

They have a pattern in their mind because of the media, the wild people, dirty people, or people who are weak, vulnerable, who are asking for help. What I'm trying to do is to make people hear from us directly, not from the news. Successful stories for refugees. So to bring the gap between culture more close, so to hear directly from us, that's what I was trying to do. Well, I think that's a great idea, Hassan. Also, the last time that we spoke, you were worried about your family, and I've been wondering how they're doing. about my family and they say that they are okay. I know that they have their own tragedy, their own misery,

but sometimes they are trying to hide information from me, not to make me worried. They are pushing me to live my life, to be with someone as well. But to be frank, I can't fully enjoy the life knowing that my family is still under threat. I feel guilty to be so much happy while they are not. My family was very supportive, never questioning me, always believed in me. So I feel it's my turn now to pay them back, to take care of them. I'm trying to.

But the last time I saw them, it was like August 2008. I missed them. I watched my brother, my only brother, get married while I was at the airport, via Skype, actually. So it was hard. It's still hard. You also mentioned when we spoke last that you were hoping that you might be able to find a girlfriend. I'm still working on it. You're still working on it? It looks like that a matter of being alone or lonely, it's a matter of destiny, not a matter of choice. It doesn't bother me that much.

It will be nice, very nice to be with someone, but it will come with time. I have a pretty good feeling about it, Hassan. Thank you so much. It was really one of the highlights of my year to speak with you in the fall. And I am so happy to see that you are doing so well. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity again. It was a pleasure. Thank you.

Thank you. Bye-bye. So one more story before we go today. Remember when we did a whole episode about Old Town Road four months ago? The country rap hit by Lil Nas X? Well, since our episode, this song has become a phenomenon. It's been remixed a bunch of times. New versions include Billy Ray Cyrus, Young Thug, and even the Korean boy band, BTS. Thug and even the Korean boy band BTS.

And this week it became the longest running number one song in the history of the Billboard Hot 100. Lil Nas X's hit has now spent 17 weeks at number one. That's longer than Despacito in 2017 or One Sweet Day by

Mariah Carey and Boyz 11 Men in 1995. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Hope you all are enjoying this wonderful long weekend. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog. She names it Gay Girl in Damascus. Am I crazy?

Maybe. As her profile grows, so does the danger. The object of the email was, please read this while sitting down. It's like a genie came out of the bottle and you can't put it back. Gay Girl Gone. Available now.