Front Burner - A major shakeup in Ottawa, but why?

Episode Date: July 27, 2023

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s cabinet is almost entirely different than it was just two days ago. In Wednesday’s shuffle, all but eight of Trudeau’s 38 ministers stepped into new files. Some ministers were forced out after controversial missteps. Other star MPs got bigger economic assignments. And a number of new faces were sworn in from important election regions. Today, Catherine Cullen – the host of CBC’s political podcast The House – returns to explain why Trudeau has transformed his cabinet, and what it says about his strategy to stay in power. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

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This was the message we heard over and over again from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau yesterday as he stood in front of his near-completely overhauled cabinet. Quote, this is the team. Trudeau moved or replaced all but eight of his 38 ministers in Tuesday's cabinet shuffle. We saw some ministers forced out after controversial missteps, star MPs getting big new economic assignments, and a number of new faces sworn in from important election regions.

So why has Trudeau decided to transform his cabinet? And what does it say about his strategy to stay in power? That's what I'm going to talk about with Catherine Cullen, who's back on the show. She's a senior reporter on Parliament Hill and the host of CBC's political podcast, The House. Hi, Catherine. Thanks so much for being here. Hey, thanks for having me. We heard a lot in advance of the shuffle that it was going to be focused on the economy and housing and job creation. And that seems to be reflected in the ministers that we're seeing right now. So Sean Fraser used to be the Minister of Immigration. And what's the file that he's landed in? Housing and infrastructure. So double-barreled there, which I think makes something of a statement

about trying to make things work better was sort of the buzz we were getting from people in government that, you know, there are more efficient means to get the government going on the question of housing. Now, what does that really mean? Well, I don't know if I can tell you after the first steps of this shuffle. There had been a lot of emphasis on the idea of housing being an important part of it. Now we've learned from sources that the shuffle will focus on three main themes, economy, housing and job creation. And it will see multiple... They did put in this portfolio, somebody who is considered to be a really good communicator, you know, I think sort of maybe something of a star in the Liberal caucus. I think it's also

interesting to think about what his job was, immigration minister, and how that is connected to housing. Of course, a big part of Canada's population growth, that's coming from immigration. Immigration can also be part of how we address some of these concerns around housing. You know, people who are experts in the field would say, if the people we are bringing in have expertise in the housing field, can help us build that new housing can be an important part of the solution. So it'd be

interesting to see how he draws on his previous experience in his new role. So he's leaving immigration and immigration is obviously also crucial for the economy and who's taking over that role. Mark Miller. And so this is another interesting choice, having worked both in the Indigenous Services File and Crown Indigenous Relations. Somebody who I think really did a bit of a standout job, obviously, was very passionate about it, took it very personally. Also a longtime confidant to the Prime Minister, he's known him since the two of them were kids. Canada has lofty immigration targets, setting its eyes on bringing in half a million people a year in the next coming years. But the immigration system itself, you know, kind of old and creaky, dealing with a lot of backlogs, a lot of changes and I was also a bit curious about is Anita Anand. So she was the defense minister and she took that over at a pretty difficult time in 2021.

That was in the middle of a wave of sexual assault allegations in the military. And where have they moved her? She is the new president of the Treasury Board. And I will say to you, I don't know if most Canadians could tell you what the president of the Treasury Board is. It is the person essentially who's like responsible for government purse strings, how government money gets spent. But it is a bit of a surprising choice, frankly, because she did, I think, by most accounts perform quite well as Minister of National Defense. And you rightly point out Tamara, like like that's a complicated file. You know, we're in the midst of Russia's full-scale war on Ukraine

and all of the culture issues within the Canadian Armed Forces. There are recruitment issues. We are asking a lot of Canada's military right now, you know, be it taking on a little bit more of a role in the Indo-Pacific and all these domestic, you know, natural disasters we've been having, be they forest fires or the response to, you know, post-tropical storm Fiona, a lot of demands in that portfolio and kind of surprising that she would be asked to step away at this time for a job that is not necessarily considered in the like absolute upper echelons of the possible cabinet posts.

Right. Some people have been saying that going from defense to treasury is a downgrade. And because it's less of a visible role, she's not as much in the public eye as she has been. And she's someone who's been floated as a possible next leader for the liberals. So why would they move her there, do you think? I think that that is going to be the subject of a lot of Ottawa gossip and speculation, quite frankly, over the next little while. I mean, one possible explanation is that it is an economic portfolio. So she gets to build her economic chops if indeed she has aspirations of becoming the next prime minister, right? That's something that you'd want to say,

I have some of these bona fides. It also involves a lot less travel. So are there upsides for her that she was seeking out? Or is this about it being too obvious that she was a leadership aspirant or just a problem that the government needs solved? I mean, they have called upon her a couple of times to do that. I couldn't tell you what the problem specifically is in Treasury Board, frankly. problem specifically is in Treasury Board, frankly. But we're going to have to see what she does with this role and if she can kind of take ownership of the file the way she has in the past couple of postings she's had. So like you said, defense right now is a pretty crucial file for the government. There's a lot going on there. So who's taking over for her at defense? Bill Blair, former Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair.

That one surprised me quite a bit as well. Most recently, Bill Blair was emergency preparedness minister. And, you know, when you think about it, you can start to see a bit of logic there. But there's definitely been more than one observer who has said, if you are trying to promote a culture change within the Canadian Armed Forces, Bill Blair is sort of as an older white man kind of gives off a business as usual vibe. He has defended the move saying, listen, I was the head of the Toronto Police Force and we diversified a lot. We were the most diverse police force in the country by the time I was done being police chief. But he definitely has a very tall task in front of him now. Catherine, really quickly then, are there any other big front bench appointments you think

are worth mentioning? I have to say one that kind of knocked my socks off a little bit is Arif Varani to justice, because it's a rookie as a justice minister. And again, when you talk about sort of the cream of the crop, most important portfolios in cabinet, justice is one of them. He does have a background as a constitutional lawyer. One little biographical detail I find fascinating about him, he took a couple of years off to travel and he went at one point and was working in Rwanda in the court there helping prosecute people for their involvement in the genocide, which is just, yeah, a really extraordinary thing to think about. But, you know, that is a big job that he's taking on. Interesting. Okay, so going back

to some of the appointments that we talked about earlier, there's obviously an economic focus to some of the changes here. But then when Trudeau got up to speak shortly after the shuffle, after all of this movement, how actually different was his message from what we've been hearing from him for months? We could have been listening to a news conference that was recorded a month earlier. I mean, that's not quite true because the questions were about the cabinet shuffle. And it's true that he did keep saying, you know, this is the team, fresh energy. But the fundamental question of addressing the day-to-day concerns of Canadians,

the tone and the information had not meaningfully changed. You talk about this as a moment of consequence. You yourself said people are struggling to just even put food on their table. So why should the average Canadian even care who's behind you today? Well, the reality is this is the team that's going to continue to be there delivering for Canadians over the past.

I mean, the people around the prime minister, around the liberals had been hyping up this idea that housing was really going to be a big focus. There was no substantive announcement when the prime minister came out. Now, are they holding it for later? It is the middle of the summer. You know, maybe they today was really just about refreshing the team. But if this was about convincing Canadians that there was a shift, a refresh, a rejig, that they were more in tune, are more in tune with the things that are preoccupying people, I did not hear that change in tone from the prime minister. that are preoccupying people. I did not hear that change in tone from the prime minister. So Trudeau talked a lot about the middle class when he was first elected in 2015. But since the big economic supports during the pandemic, we've really seen that kind of fall by the wayside.

Why do you think right now is the time that they're trying to center the economy again? I think they would say that they have been talking about the economy, be it through those specific grocery rebates for low earners, renters rebates, helping the people who have the least rather than helping the middle class, or be it through cheaper childcare for some folks. It's totally getting drowned out this spring by the conversation around foreign interference.

And so it didn't, even if the government felt that it was doing things to help people through these difficult times, I don't know that people were really hearing it because what they were hearing out of federal politics was attempted Chinese interference in Canadian elections. Are we going to have a public inquiry? Wait a minute, Paul Bernardo's prison transfer, you know, oh my God, what's going on with this gun legislation? Their message has been totally drowned out. And I think that that has been, frankly, to their detriment because people are stressed right now. And I don't think we've seen the government articulate an equally visceral response. And while all this is going on, the Conservatives in particular and the NDP just hitting them over the head. Justin Trudeau is admitting that he broke the economy, but he's trying to blame it on seven or eight ministers

that he fired today. But it's him that gave us the 40-year highs in inflation. The poll numbers are not good, which I think is a reflection of specifically these issues. Also the fact that this is an older government and, you know, over time, shine does tend to wear off. But I think that they know that they have a problem. This cabinet shuffle is intended to be part of the solution. But I don't think not a lot of people could name half of the cabinet.

So it's going to have to be more than a cabinet shuffle, right? Not a lot of people could name half of the cabinet. So it's going to have to be more than a cabinet shuffle, right? It's going to be about the policies and to getting back to talking principally about these issues that matter in can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here.

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In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. So in addition to big appointments, there's also been some pretty prominent ministers who were dropped from cabinet entirely here. So Marco Mendicino was the Minister of Public Safety, and we have a pretty good idea of why Trudeau wanted him gone, I think. How has Mendicino been causing trouble for the Liberals lately? I mean, he had a lot of difficulties, particularly in the last several months.

Talk about attempts to change the gun legislation, for instance. A new government proposal would make more firearms illegal. It would add many shotguns and semi-automatic rifles to the banned list. Those went totally awry. It turned into this massive political problem for the government where it wasn't clear which guns the government was trying to stop people from using. And hunters were worried that the government was going to try to take away their guns. And to the point that the government actually had to walk back a piece of their plan,

the amendments to this piece of legislation, or risk losing the whole plan. So that was definitely not a very good situation. Foreign interference, difficult file. Government can't get out from underneath it. Marco Mendicino, important part of that file. Most recently, though, the thing that I think really tipped it over the edge, unquestionably, was this story that Marco Mendocino's office did not tell him about the transfer of notorious serial killer Paul Bernardo to a medium security prison. serial killer Paul Bernardo to a medium security prison.

CBC News has now learned that the Correctional Service of Canada did give Mendicino's office advance warning about the transfer, but staff didn't tell the minister for three months until a day after Bernardo was moved. Now, the information we have from the people involved is that this was not due to a particular action by Minister Mendicino, but the decisions made by the people in his office. But ultimately, as a minister, you are accountable. He, I think, just started looking very out of control and frankly a bit panicked.

He's somebody who has always been up for a conversation with the media and whatnot. We've had him on the house a lot. But there he was practically running from the cameras. How is it? How is it? And we have questions. You know, hiding from questions about this very uncomfortable topic. And I think it became crystal clear in the last few days of this parliamentary sitting that he was in a lot of trouble. He was toast. It was just a question of whether or not he could hang on long enough to make it to a cabinet shuffle. Although I think everybody assumed that he would just get a demotion

and get a less important job when in fact, no, you're gone entirely, which I think sends quite a strong message, perhaps a harsh message from Mr. Medellino's perspective. Yeah, his removal isn't really all that surprising. I think last week when the Prime Minister was asked whether or not he had any confidence in him in Kingston, he didn't even respond directly. He just said, anyone in my cabinet, by definition, has my confidence. Yes. And look who's not in his cabinet anymore. So there you go. So there is another removal in the same realm here. David Lamedi had been the justice minister since 2019. He was the successor to Jody Wilson-Raybould after she resigned from cabinet over SNC-Lavalin. But now with Lamedi,

why might he have been shuffled out? Yeah, this one is a shocker, I have to say, of the many things that we have learned over the last couple of days in terms of what was going on with this cabinet shuffle. That was the one where, you know, we all sort of went bug-eyed in the newsroom when we heard about it. So to have somebody in such an important position to suddenly be out of cabinet when there hasn't been the same kind of difficulties or challenges, there were no moments of David Lamedi sort of running away from the camera. There have been issues, certainly. You know, there are real concern around the number of judicial appointments. Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada said, you know, the government didn't get its act together, that we were on the road to chaos and

people losing their faith in the justice system. So that's no small thing. Although the Prime Minister's office is also involved in that process. I don't think we know the full story, frankly. Obviously, some of what went on here has to do with either calculations about how politically useful he was or something else that sort of happens in the corridors of power that we are not aware of. But it was perhaps the biggest surprise of the entire cabinet shuffle. And then there is one more that I just wanted to highlight. Pablo Rodriguez, who was Minister of Heritage, he isn't getting kicked out of cabinet entirely. He's being moved to Minister of Transportation. But can we see this as being related to Bill C-18, the act that was supposed to make Google and Facebook pay for Canadian news

links? Heritage is a really messy file right now. So yes, absolutely. I think whether it was Minister Rodriguez saying, like, I have had enough of this, whether it was the tech company saying, sir, we have had enough of you, or just the prime minister's office's assessment of how he had handled the file, it's clear something had to give there. The parties involved were not particularly happy. And so Minister Rodriguez will move on to transport. really happy. And so Minister Rodriguez will move on to transport. So, right. So, and the person who's taking over for him is Pascal Saint-Ange. Yeah. And this, I mean, this, I think, is probably an under-discussed part of the cabinet shuffle,

but so interesting. So Pascal Saint-Ange was the minister for sport. And maybe it's a little impolite to start ranking the importance of the various ministries. But if you did, sport is probably not one of the ones where you'd go, well, that's really high profile. That's really high pressure. But she was minister of sport when all of this information started coming out about allegations of abuse, sexual assault that Hockey Canada attempted to cover up and trying to deal with the organization at that time. It is certainly not limited to hockey. There have been concerns in all kinds of sports. There have been committee hearings where you've been hearing just like absolutely heartbreaking stories about abuse. Obviously, the government thinks that she's handled herself pretty well. But I would say she has another big test coming in heritage because while the government has passed both the Online News Act, C-18 and C-11, which are the changes to the Broadcasting Act, so basically like Canadian

content rules, they're not actually in place yet. And both of those bills are super contentious. This is where they are at odds with Meta, Google, and there's still another really thorny piece of legislation that we had been poking Pablo Rodriguez about saying, hey, what's going on with that online harms bill? What's going on with that online harms bill? And they had just sort of kept kicking it down the road. This is a piece of legislation to try to address terrible abuse that we see happening in the online world. But where the line is on that so that you're not going into censorship is incredibly challenging. So we should also say four ministers were shuffled out simply because they've decided not to run for re-election as MPs.

To fill all of these holes that we've talked about in cabinet, where has Trudeau brought in new faces from that might be important in an election? I would say, you know, the greater Toronto area and Montreal, he's reaching out to folks, reaching into swing riding. So basically ridings where the government really wants to hold on to the seat that they have, but they know, be it the Bloc Québécois or the NDP or whomever, is sort of nipping at their heels, the Conservatives in some of the instances. And also, I would say that there's more cultural diversity that they have brought into cabinet as well, which is interesting to see. You have Rechi Valdez, which I have to say was not a name that I

knew at all on Parliament Hill. She's a relatively new member of Parliament. She is now the Minister of Small Business. She is the first Filipina Canadian ever to be a cabinet minister. She was really emotional at the swearing in. I, Ritchie Valdez,

do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles III, King of Canada, his heirs and successors. So help me God. And I think regardless of political stripe, you'd say like, that was a sweet moment, right? Where you see how personal politics can be. So you mentioned earlier how a lot of Canadians probably won't recognize or necessarily care who is in which cabinet portfolio. So this government is going to have to do a lot more work if it's going to make up ground in the polls. So looking at the shuffle as the start of a plan, what do you think it might tell us about Trudeau's strategy to win another election?

about Trudeau's strategy to win another election? I mean, one interesting thing, I think, is that it says that he's in, right? Because another favorite sort of parlor game in Ottawa is like, oh, is he really going to stick around? Does he really want this, even though he said publicly that he does? I don't think you turn your whole cabinet upside down if you're phoning it in or you think you're going to, you know, take off and take some other job in a few months. So it does speak to, I think, a level of engagement that is interesting. The question to me is about execution. You know, step one, identify that Canadians are anxious and more needs to be done to show that you can try to help them ease some of that anxiety. But step two is how you're going to go about doing it. I'm also interested as we go forward in the sort of divide of, is this just about communicating to Canadians better on what

the government has been doing? That's an argument that you hear sometimes from people who are friendly to the Liberals. It's just about, you know, letting Canadians know what we've done for them, like the cheaper childcare, for instance, right? Or is it actually about a substantive change in the way that you approach some of this stuff? And if indeed that's the case, what are you going to do? And how are you going to talk to Canadians about it? Okay, Catherine, thank you for explaining what this all means. I really appreciate it. It was lovely to talk to you. Nice to talk to you too. Thanks for having me on. All right, that's allbc.ca slash podcasts.