Front Burner - A Montreal police officer was attacked, but the wrong man was arrested

Episode Date: February 18, 2021

Mamadi III Fara Camara’s lawyer says he called police to help an officer who had been attacked, and after trying to help, he was charged with attempted murder. Today, how this case of wrongful arrest fits into a wider debate about policing in Montreal.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. So a few weeks ago, a 31-year-old Black doctoral student named Mamadi Kamara witnessed the brutal beating of a police officer in Montreal. His lawyer says he called 911 to report it and he gave a statement.

But instead, later that day, Camaro was arrested and charged with attempted murder of that officer. He spent six nights in detention. He's since been cleared and the charges have been dropped. But what happened has spurred a lot of anger over police accountability. Let's do this better. It's 2021. Let's do this better by holding the police accountable. Today, I'm talking to my colleague in Montreal, Antony Neriston, about Mamadi Kamara's story and how this is just one of several developments in recent times that have further fueled the debate over police presence and funding. Hi, Anthony. Thanks so much for making the time to speak with me today. My pleasure. So, Anthony, can you tell me how it came to be that this man ended up being arrested?

So, Montreal Police, since this whole thing started, they've been very tight-lipped about the investigation, what evidence they used to charge Kamara. We didn't know much how it got there until Mamadi Kamara appeared on a French talk show on Radio-Canada called Tout le monde en parle. And we got a little more details at that point through Kamara's lawyer. What we learned is that, first of all, Kamara was apparently pulled over by the injured officer for using a cell phone while driving. He denies that. Secondly and more importantly Kamara says he witnessed the attack on the officer and was in his car the entire time. So from the moment he was pulled over to the time he got a ticket to the time the officer was ambushed. Kamara is adamant that he never got out of his vehicle and that he saw the assailant leave the scene. Another thing we learned from that interview, Jamie, is that the lawyer said Kamara called 911 from the scene to

explain what happened. Police got there. They questioned him and quickly let him go. So how do we go from that to being charged with attempted murder well according to the lawyer shortly after kamara was allowed to go home the injured officer apparently identified kamara as the attackers if it could only have been him who attacked him so by the time kamara gets home he thinks everything is okay but police are already looking for him. They find him in his vehicle. Weapons are drawn. They go up to him in his car and the lawyer says. The two officers took him by the shoulders and took him out of the vehicle by the window.

So they took him to the ground and face to the ground. And one of the police officers put his boot on his head. They took him to the ground and faced to the ground. And one of the police officers put his boot on his head. And then the lawyer said that Kamara was interrogated for a few hours. The officer who filed the report when they found him said Kamara was a witness. He was not based on his version of the story. He considered Kamara to be a witness, according to the lawyer. But what followed after was a long interrogation, and then he was charged with attempted murder, assault,

and disarming a police officer. All right, so I just want to make sure I've got this. So according to his lawyer, Kamara was stopped by a police officer for allegedly driving while using a cell phone. He denies this. but after he's pulled over he sees that same police officer get attacked and his lawyer says that he actually calls 9-1-1 he waits for the cops to arrive he makes a statement and then he's let go but then later he's arrested and the officer at the scene actually concludes that he is a witness, but Kamara is still further interrogated. And then after that, he's charged. It seems as if the weight of the officer who was attacked in this case, his version of events, weighed a lot.

And even though Kamara claimed that he hadn't done anything, that he didn't even get out of his vehicle. And then you have to look at the fact that he has, this is someone who called 911 from what his lawyer is saying from the scene. That doesn't sound like someone who is guilty, but nevertheless, it seems like the fact that the officer who was attacked was sure that he was the person that did this, that contributed to his arrest and the fact that he was the person that did this that contributed to his arrest and the fact that he was charged. I know he spent six nights in detention after this. And what was happening during this time? Does he have a lawyer? Is he able to talk to his family? He did have a lawyer represent him. Kamara talked about the fact that during that time he wasn't able to reach

his family. He said he was traumatized by the entire experience. One of the things he mentioned, and he didn't mention too much during the interview, he preferred to let his lawyer do the talking, but he mentioned how when he walked into the jail, a lot of guards were looking at him. Camara says the guards looked at him like it's the cop killer during the six days he spent behind bars. Camara says in jail, he was considered a monster. So overall, it was a very traumatic experience for him. And I know that he has since been completely exonerated, cleared. And so how did that happen?

So he was charged and then there was a bail hearing. And the weird twist came when essentially the Crown Prosecution's office said, with new evidence that has come to light, we're not able to go ahead with this case. And Kamara, during his court appearance, his handcuffs were removed and he was let go. The charges were stayed, a moment of relief for family gathered at the courthouse, including his wife, who's pregnant with twins. It was a very emotional moment for him and his loved ones and the evidence that i just mentioned was essentially footage from a nearby highway that captured part of the attack or at least the big

chunk of what happened and what we saw or what police officers saw rather was the fact that something they saw something that appeared to imply that there was another person at the scene and that started the chain of events where he was let go eventually there was another person at the scene. And that started the chain of events where he was let go. Eventually, there was DNA evidence that completely exonerated him. And I know that all of this has really sparked a ton of anger, right? And can you tell me about the reaction to this? Yeah, when he was let go, the reaction from a lot of people, but especially people from within the Black communities, was a mix of shock, anger, sadness, because they felt that this person's name had been dragged through the mud

unfairly. Kamara is a PhD student at a well-known engineering school in Montreal. He hasn't been in Canada for very long. He's trying to make his way. And people just felt like Montreal police had racially profiled him. People wonder, like, when you have someone with his profile, not just the fact that he's a PhD student, not just the fact that he doesn't appear to have a criminal record, people are feeling as though if he were white, this wouldn't have happened. That the only strike against him in that situation was not evidence, was not the circumstances, it was the fact that he was black. Including this former RCMP officer. circumstances it was the fact that he was black including this former rcmp officer if he had shot with the firearm there will be traces of gunpowder you can verify that right away if there's no traces of gunpowder well you know he's not your prime suspect right so perhaps it's not special

for filing for the beginning but at the end of it clearly there's something that has to do with the color of his skin all of that contributed contributed to the, to kind of highlight a certain level of distrust, discomfort that a lot of people in the Black community in Montreal feel when it comes to their encounters with police. And Kamara quickly became kind of a symbol for that, the latest symbol when it comes to just the fact that Montreal police have a lot of work to do when it comes to building those bridges, building that trust with the black community in Montreal. We want the government to hold the police accountable.

Enough is enough. They can't continue acting and violating our communities with impunity. And we want reparations in the form of defunding, defunding the police, financing our communities, initiatives, programs in our communities. If we want real public security, we have to start by financing the services that don't receive enough money. Right. And that's what I want to talk to you about a bit more today. Just to note here, Montreal police have insisted Camara's arrest was based strictly on the evidence and not on profiling, and that the

police chief, Sylvain Caron, has apologized for the wrongful arrest. I know that there's going to be an investigation into this wrongful arrest, and do we know what the government will be looking at here? The province appointed a former judge, his name is Louis Zion, to lead an investigation to find out exactly what happened, what evidence that police have that led to his arrest, how did they go about this investigation and their conclusion before he was ultimately let go. His goal is to find out if there was any wrongdoing on the police's part and also to issue recommendations about what should be done to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. The government was asked if Louis Dion is tasked with finding out whether or

not Camara was racially profiled. And essentially, the answer was not necessarily, but he's looking at everything. If racial profiling comes up, then so be it. I think that Mr. Dionne will be able to answer this question about the motivation, about why it happened this way. Would it have been the same if it was a white person? A concern about this at this point is the fact that, you know, in all likelihood, a report will come out of this. And people are concerned that this is just going to be another report that doesn't lead to anything, that doesn't lead to change. A lot of community activists, community group workers say they're fed up with reports and commissions and recommendations. When it comes to Montreal Police, they want action and they want

Montreal Police to pay a price for what they did. We're tired of studies. We already know what's going on. We've been living this for years and decades. You know, we don't need another study to tell us that there's systemic racism. We want action. We want action in terms of public policy. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here.

You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people, and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%.

That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. And like you mentioned, this fraught relationship with the police in Montreal, it goes beyond this case. And it's actually happening right now somewhere else in the city. I know this is an issue you've been digging into a lot in a particular part in the city's East End. And who lives there? What's it like? The city's East End, there's a lot of diversity. You have the Italian community that's very present.

Black communities are very present. The Latino community, Middle Eastern people. A lot of people settle there when they get to Canada. Like, for example, asylum seekers from Haiti that have been coming in in recent years. A lot of them settle in the East End because those neighborhoods have a large Haitian population. So they feel comfortable there. There's a mix of low income and middle class families, but the East End in Montreal does have a history of gangs and gang violence. It doesn't

define those neighborhoods, but it's there. And from time to time, the violence seems to flare up. And I know that that violence has flared up recently. There's been a few shootings in recent weeks, right? And can you tell me more about that? So recently, a 26-year-old man was shot and killed in the East End. And that same night, there was another shooting in another neighborhood that's like a five-minute drive away. And most recently, because there have been a lot of shootings lately, And most recently, because there have been a lot of shootings lately, but the most recent one is the fatal drive-by shooting of a 15-year-old girl.

She was killed. She's not from the East End, but she was there that night. The 15-year-old moved from Algeria to Quebec two years ago to live with her sister and brother-in-law and attend school on the South Shore. We have lost, we have lost, I don't know. My sister was really dream. She was our dream here in Canada. And that really triggered a strong reaction, not just from the mayor of Montreal, Valérie Plante. Again, how come those people have guns? That is a huge problem. unit started operating in 2019 that looked into gun-related offenses. And this new unit hadn't been set up yet, but it seems like the death of the 15-year-old girl and other shootings really set those things into motion. So now they're supposed to be set up very shortly to try to

crack down on gun violence. 22 investigators will be assigned to the new unit known by its acronym ELTA. Montreal also announced that there will be increased police presence in several boroughs in the north and east of the city, boroughs that are heavily racialized. And how are people in the community responding to this new unit? People who work with youth in some of these neighborhoods, I spoke to several people, including one street, he identifies themselves as a street worker, if you will, works with youth for more than a decade. And, you know, these are worries that

resurface every time Montreal police talk about cracking down. They fear that too many of the solutions being proposed have to do with policing and enforcement and not with, you know, getting rid of some of these social inequalities that lead to the violence or contribute to the violence. And they're worried that a lot of these troubled youth can be saved. It doesn't have to be incarceration. There are ways for them to become more productive members of society if you give them a chance. But they're just worried that there's too much of an emphasis on policing.

And that's backed up by the funding that Montreal police gets compared to the funding that community groups get when it gets when it comes to the work that they're trying to do to stop the violence. Right, right. And I understand that the police budget actually grew this year, you know, by how much and how people responded to that. So in the last year, there's been a lot of conversation in several major cities about defunding the police. And in the latest municipal budget in Montreal, Montreal increased its police budget by $15 million. A total of $660 million will go to the SPVM next year. A lot of people were waiting to see if the mayor, Valérie Plante, was going to,

because she had said previously she was open to looking at things such as defunding the police or reappropriating some of those resources to other causes. But this latest budget came with a $15 million increase and a lot of people were angry. They felt like this would do more harm than good. And so when you have that, in addition to the fact that there's these new units popping up that are tackling gun violence in neighborhoods that have large sections that are underprivileged, if you will, people felt like this was going in the wrong direction, considering everything that's been talked about in the last year. Right, right. I know that there are also other recent examples that sort of hit on these themes

as well, right? I remember there was a report last year that found Black and Indigenous people were four and five times more likely to be stopped by police and asked to identify themselves. And then in the fall, there were protests, I remember, over the police shooting of a Black man, Sheffield Matthews. Activists are demanding an outside investigation into the fatal police shooting of Sheffield Matthews. They say Quebec's Independent Bureau of Investigations is too close to the police department to carry out the task.

And then you, of course, mentioned earlier that people are sick of reports, but there were these very public consultations, right, on systemic racism more generally in the city. And can you very briefly tell me a little bit about them and how people responded to them? So the consultation happened or was sparked by, in part, by that report that you mentioned, that black and indigenous people were four to five times more likely to be stopped by Montreal police. And that report led to specific recommendations. A lot of people consider it to be a historic public consultation that's supposed to really put the city's feet to the fire moving forward

when it comes to implementing things that help get rid of certain inequalities, including racial profiling. And since that report, a lot of people feel as though Montreal is not moving forward. They look at the Camara situation. They look at what's happening with the emphasis on police enforcement, as opposed to reappropriating some of their resources. And they see that as a step backwards. You know, Anthony, listening to you talk today, I wonder if you think it would be fair to say that the people in Montreal who have been pushing for police reforms, for less policing

or more police accountability, might actually be feeling now like things are regressing, like they're not making the progress that they've set out to make. I think there's a wait and see approach at this point, but I think it would be fair to say that there are concerns. There are concerns about the fact that, you know, things are not going in the direction they had hoped, especially in light of that historic consultation on systemic racism that I mentioned. I think right now, you know, when you look at all the events that have

happened recently in Montreal, you have Mamadi Kamara, who becomes the latest symbol of, in the eyes of many people, racial profiling and the problem that it represents in Montreal. And then you have these shootings that appear unrelated. But when you look at the police reaction and the problem that it represents in Montreal. And then you have these shootings that appear unrelated. But when you look at the police reaction and the police response, that includes more enforcement, stronger presence in the affected neighborhoods. People are really worried that, you know, Montreal police are essentially using these shootings as justification to kind of counter the defund the police movement and justify why they're there.

And I think that's something that's going to be met with a bit of resistance by the same community activists that have been speaking up about defunding the police over the last year or so. So I think there's more to come when it comes to this entire debate. Okay, Anthony, thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you very much. All right, so Antony and I talked about Mamadi Kamara at the beginning of our conversation. Well, on Tuesday, the House of Commons voted unanimously in favor of a motion to grant him permanent resident status. Kamara arrived in Canada in 2017 on a temporary student visa, which actually expires in mid-May.

The motion is non-binding, but a spokesperson with the Immigration Ministry said in an email that they, quote, That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner. We'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.