Front Burner - A third attempt on Trump’s life?

Episode Date: April 27, 2026

On Saturday night, as U.S. President Donald Trump sat on a dais in front of a room full of journalists, gunshots were heard inside the building. An armed man was taken down by Secret Service members, and the President was evacuated, unharmed. Paul Hunter was there, and describes what happened in that room, and what to make of what may be the third attempt on Trump’s life. Paul is CBC's senior Washington correspondent and co-host of the podcast Two Blocks from the White House.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

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That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S-C-A. Cargooros.ca.ca. This is a CBC podcast. Hi, everyone. I'm Jamie Plessom. On Saturday night, as U.S. President Donald Trump sat on a dais in front of a room full of journalists, the muffled sound of gunshots. Our colleague, Paul Hunter, was in the room. He is the CBC's senior Washington correspondent and co-host of the podcast,

two blocks from the White House. He joins me today to describe what happens. and the aftermath of a potential third assassination attempt of U.S. President Donald Trump. Paul, thank you so much for being here. I'm glad you're safe and that everybody at the dinner on Saturday night is safe. Hey, Jamie. Happy to be here. Thank you. I'm going to timestamp this conversation. We're talking on Sunday afternoon. You were, of course, as we've said, at the White House Correspondence dinner last night. This is a pretty iconic event, a gathering of the White House. Press Corps various celebrities and last night members of the Trump administration, including the U.S. President himself. And just can you describe to me the moment that you realized

something had gone seriously wrong here? The gunshots weren't muffled, Jamie. They were loud to us. It kind of depended where you were in the room because there was kind of a lot of white noise going on. People were chit-chatting at all their tables. And if you were up near the dais up near Donald Trump up at the front where the major American networks were sitting. I think a lot of people thought it was dishes being dropped or something like that. But where we were sitting right near the open doors at the back, the shots were loud. And they were like the pop, pop, pop, pop that we always hear people describe when they're out of mass shooting. And this wasn't a mass shooting, obviously, but it was the pop, pop, pop, the repetition.

And it's like, honestly, my first impulse was like, what? because I knew it was gunfire. It sounded like gunfire. And I thought like it didn't make sense, right? And it's like at first, I hate to say it, but I thought it was like some sort of skit or joke or like or something like that. And then people started shouting, shooter, shooter, shooter, down, down, down, right? And it was like, oh my God, this is real.

And people started diving under the tables and chairs were flying and like people People's shoes were coming off and you didn't know what was going on. And that's what was so scary about it. And I'm like, we were like right by the door, right? And so I was hiding behind these big concrete column that was there. A lot of some of, some, I was there with some friends from Radio Canada and they were under, they got themselves under the table. Wow.

It was surreal. And again, you're in the most, what we, if you'd asked me last night, where are you, Paul? I would have said, I'm in the most secure room, perhaps on the planet. at this point, given the attendees, given Donald Trump was there, given Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, given all, given RFK Jr., Scott Bessent, Cash, but they were all there. The vice president, Melania, it's like you are in no safer place on the planet. And I think that's part of what led the first impression to being this can't be real, but it was. Totally surreal. I mean, I didn't realize that you were so close to where the shots actually rang out. That must have been incredibly scary. Tell me a little bit about what was happening at the front of the room where Trump was seated after the shots rang out. When they rang out, I think the room collectively, not the Secret Service, but the room had this same feeling that I had. Like, what? Right. Secret Service jumped in. into action. You know, I went down as low as I could as well, hiding behind that column. By the time,

I don't know how long it was, a few seconds or a minute, whatever, when I next looked up at the dais, empty, they were gone. They pulled Vance away. They pulled Trump away. They pulled Melania, Trump away, empty. And by the way, what I'm thinking is, and the Secret Service would have thought the same thing. What's going to happen next, right? Like, if that one person, got that close to the room, are there others, right? Is there, is there somebody in the room who somehow got a gun in here? That's all I'm thinking on the ground is, is this the point where a whole bunch of people come in with AR-15s and start spraying the crowd? Yeah. Am I safe enough? Are my friends safe enough? Am I going to die? Is somebody going to get shot? You don't know. So what, when I looked

up and I saw the dais and it was empty, then I saw Secret Service coming in from all corners of this room. It was like, like a platoon of, and I'm thinking, how many are you? And I'm thinking, how many are Like it was just one after the, like every going after those cabinet secretaries at the front who were, as we came to understand it, they themselves were pushed down under the tables at the same time. And then what they wanted to do was bring them out, get them out of this room and into safety, right? And so because of where we were sitting, a lot of them were marched by where we, by then were standing, there goes Cash Patel. There goes another. There goes another. It's sort of being pushed by their security guards with their arms around them. You know, I hate to say it. Jamie, but it's sort of true. It's just like in the movies. We've seen movies like this countless times of incidents like that. And it's exactly how it played out. From the pop, pop, pop, pop to the mayhem in the room and things flying everywhere to the president being whisked out to the secret service coming in and taking everybody else out. That added to the serenality of it because we've seen it in the movies so many times. And yet here it was in action.

It was nuts. Paul, at what point do you kind of exhale a little bit? Like, at what point do you kind of realize that the situation might be under control and that, you know, something else isn't coming and that finally you're probably safe? To me, like, so we're then in lockdown, right? And I'm getting shivers just talking about this, Jamie, because I sort of don't know. if I've exhaled yet. But we're in lockdown for a good long time, not really knowing what was even going on outside. You couldn't call at my cell phone. I could not get a call out.

I finally called CBC News Network via WhatsApp to get on the air and try to describe what I was seeing. But you had very little idea of what was on the outside of those doors. We're stuck in there for an hour. Your adrenaline is racing, right? You're trying to make sense of what you've just experienced. And finally, and again, I've no idea what time it was, Jamie, but finally, they opened the,

doors and we got out. And so I took the elevator. At this point, my phone is dead. Like, battery is gone. We go up the escalator and I'm going out. I live about a 20-minute walk away. So I get out of the hotel and all you see is this wall of police cars and ambulances and red and blue and white lights flashing. And maybe it was then. I don't know. It's like, oh, I'm out. Everything seems secure. And I'm just going to walk home. But to really, to really, honestly answer the question, Jamie, I'm not sure that I have exiled yet. Yeah. I mean, this is such a harrowing story you've just told. What was the security like? Like, as you were going into the building. Well, that's a good question. There was lots,

you know. It was starting to rain when I went. So I, you know, although I could have walked up to the Hilton, jumped in a taxi. And then the taxi ran into security perimeters, like a couple of blocks away. So it's like, of course. So, okay, I'm going to walk the last couple of blocks. That's security perimeter number one. By the time you got to the edge of the block on which the Hilton is, you had to show your tickets. You weren't going, you weren't being patted down. There was no wanding, but not getting any further unless you show your tickets. Fine. Here it is. Boom, go. Climb up the hill a little bit and you get to the perimeter of the property. Show tickets again. Get to the door. Show tickets. Nobody's getting past unless you have tickets,

right? Get to the escalator going to the ballroom tickets. It's then when you're entering the ballroom that they had the magnometers. Do you see security everywhere? 100%. I started taking pictures of them. I mean, the whole fun of these things is to go and just take pictures of all the crazy stuff going on at these events normally, right? I started taking pictures of guys with the, you know, the earpieces and the curly cables behind them just for the fun of it while I was waiting to get into the ballroom. So it felt like a secure event, and it was a secure event. I talk about that it being the most secure room perhaps on the planet at that moment, given the supreme amount of power that was sitting down at those various tables. But to be honest, they did their job in a sense, right? The shooter did

not get into that room. The shooter did not kill anybody in that room. How the shooter got to that point is another matter, right? And we're learning that he had checked in, the suspect had checked into the hotel. And if you read his manifesto, he was quite amazed by the fact that nobody bothered to check him as he checked in. And it surprised him, you know. So how did that guy get to that point is the question. Certainly, I mean, we don't know a ton about him so far, but there was certainly a level of planning here. He must have had to book that room. He took the train from California to a Chicago, I think, and then Chicago to Washington. And obviously there are no metal detectors on those trains.

So it seems like there was some planning here. And just tell me more about what we know about the alleged shooter at this point. Not a lot as we speak. You and I right now, authorities are going through everything that you can find about him, online and otherwise. He has been identified as 31-year-old Cole Allen from California, the interim chief of police four DC said the suspect charged the checkpoint with a shotgun and was also armed with a handgun and multiple knives. The most we know, besides name, age, he was a part-time teacher, etc., etc., is from that manifesto that has been published now in which he talks about anger at the administration.

I think the key line is, I think he calls a number of people in the administration pedophiles and rapists. I'm no longer willing to permit a pedophile, rapist, and traitor to coat my hands with his crimes. What's your reaction to that? Well, I was waiting for you to read that because I knew you would because you're horrible people, horrible people. Yeah, he did write that. I'm not a rapist. I didn't rape anybody. Oh, you think, do you think he was referring to you?

Excuse me. I'm not a pedophile. You read that crap from some sick person. I got associated with stuff that has nothing to do with me. I was totally exonerated. Your friends on the other side of the plate are the ones that were involved with, let's say, Epstein or other things. But it seems clear, taken at face value, that he had intent with this. He's effectively acknowledging everything that he was going to do, which played out last night.

And you're right. I mean, to check into that hotel, nothing gets passed. act for these events. It's the event of the year in this city, right? So presumably this was an event planned for some time and carefully to take the train so you don't have to check weapons on an airline. But the guns that he had, and there were two of them, were legally bought, right, and knives. Lili purchased in 2023, 2025, but that's not an unusual thing in this country, right? There are four to five hundred million guns in this country. That unto itself, is not a thing. But his intent seems to have been a thing. And he's quite clear about it in his manifesto.

Yeah. I mean, I saw some reports, too, that a family member alerted police about some writings he had shared, calling himself the friendly federal assassin indicating he wanted to target administration officials, but I don't think that they knew about the hotel or the White House correspondence dinner. I'll just stress here that these are all early reports and allegations at this point. And nothing has been proven in court. I mean, hopefully we'll learn more in the coming days about him and his alleged motive. He did survive, of course. In the first attempt on Trump's life, the one in Butler, Pennsylvania on the campaign trail, the shooter was killed. But the second attempt, the shooter survived, and he was sentenced to life in prison without parole. He actually

grabbed a pen and attempted to stab himself in the neck after the jury found him guilty. So, you know, we'll have to kind of keep tabs on what else we might learn there. Yeah, key point. That's the first thing I thought last night when, you know, the initial, again, we weren't really inside. When we were in lockdown inside the room, we weren't really sure what was going on outside. And word started to spread very quickly that the shooter had been, had himself or herself, we didn't know at the time, being shot and killed. That was the early sort of buzz, for lack of a better term.

But as soon as I heard that I think it was from Trump's truth posting that the shooter had been apprehended, I thought, okay, well, we're going to hear more from that person. And again, pointing to the manifesto, it seems that the person wants whatever he had been thinking in the lead up to this to be known far and wide. And so I suspect we'll in one way or another hear from him somehow. So a few hours after the event, I think it was around 10.30 on Saturday night, if I remember correctly, when I was watching it. Trump went to the White House briefing room still in his tucks, and he gave this press conference. Well, thank you very much. That was very unexpected. And he told the story of what happened from his own perspective. And I heard a noise and sort of thought it was a tray. I thought it was a tray going down. I've heard that many times, and it was pretty loud noise.

And it was from quite far away. He hadn't breached. How would you say that he seemed? And I guess as someone who kind of lived through that whole experience, like what did you make of his demeanor? I thought he was remarkably, I don't know what the word is, calm, sedate, chill about it, you know, given what had happened? I leave a pretty normal life considering, you know, it's a dangerous life.

I think I'm, I think I handle it as well as it can be handled. I think a lot of other people, you know, you read stories where they become basket cases, to be honest. I'm not a basket case. I take as, really take it as it is. That's the first thing that struck me. He wasn't, he wasn't on fire the way he can sometimes be. It was interested to hear some of the things.

things that he was saying. I mean, when he brought up the ballroom. And I didn't want to say this, but this is why we have to have all of the attributes of what we're planning at the White House. It's actually a larger room, and it's much more secure. It's drone-proof. It's bulletproof glass. We need the ballroom.

That's why Secret Service. Effectively saying that if his big giant ballroom had been ready and finished, that maybe this wouldn't have happened. That's why Secret Service. That's why the military are demanding it. They've wanted the ballroom for 150 years for lots of different reasons. And I thought, politicizing it already because it's been quite a controversial project, obviously. But I don't know.

He was, you know, and he went on a little bit about everybody kind of coming together. And it was all these things when such moments can make people forget political differences. You had Republicans, Democrats, independents, conservatives, liberals, and progressives. Those words are interchangeable, perhaps, but maybe they're not. But you had everybody in that room, big crowd, record-setting crowd. There was a record-setting group of people. And there was a tremendous amount of love and coming together. I watched it.

I don't know. I wasn't sure what to make of that. I don't know. I'm still trying to process what. I'm trying to process what happened at the plays. I'm trying to process the words that came out of Trump's mouth last night because it was not your usual Donald Trump. I also thought, here's a guy.

I mean, to go back to Butler, the assassination attempt on the campaign trail, I think cynics, conspiracy theorists would say, well, that was well, that was well-timed. Right. And I'm not, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that. But here's Trump right now very low in public opinion. got a very big fight on his hands. You wonder about conspiracy theories, right? And that was one of the first things I heard muttering in the room last night was,

I don't know. I hesitate to say it, Jamie, because it tends to feed that stuff. But people quick, I guess because of recent history, people and the number of times, people don't believe sometimes what they see in front of them, that people will start to mutter about these things, if not in that room in corners of America where conspiracy theories grow, that maybe there was something else going on here because Trump became the kind of guy that said, let's all unite, let's stand behind the security of America and the security of our presidents.

And that includes me and let's get that ballroom built. Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting to hear you say that there were people in the room talking about kind of these conspiracy theories because I was watching online, right? And one thing that struck me last night was that basically within minutes, that speculation. The false flag stuff was just, it's like there's like this ecosystem now for this sort of thing after, you know, these other attempts on Trump's life and the other instances of political violence that we've seen in America. It's like this well-oiled machine at this point, the false flag factory, you know. Exactly. I mean, if you take the divided.

country that this is. Add divisive politics to that. Multiply that by the number of seemingly endless number of online platforms through which conspiracy theories can grow and move. And then multiply that by the many millions and millions of Americans who we sometimes lumped together as MAGA. But I think it's fairer to say the many, many millions of Americans who are frustrated and and dissatisfied and angry about their lot in life. And is it any wonder that conspiracy theories jump immediately? It's kind of, it's the world we're in, or at least it's the country that we're in right now, this country. Completely.

And just coming back to the ballroom, just for clarity here, just for people who might not be totally caught up on what's going on with this giant $400 million ballroom that he is trying to build, just remind me of the latest. It's currently facing litigation, right? And recently Trump officials and lawyers have started talking about the ballroom in new ways. Like, they're focused a lot more on it being needed for security reason. Yes, which they see, I think it's fair to say they see as the way forward on it. The skinny on it is this. Donald Trump decides he wants to put an addition on the White House. It's true that big state events have been held under a tent in the sort of back garden of the White House over time.

And that, man, it's an argument. that could be made that it requires a proper bricks and mortar place to go. The first issue here was Trump just went and did it without consultation, and it was monster-sized. Like it dwarfs the plans, dwarf the actual White House. So then came thousands and thousands and thousands, I think 30,000 right now, complaints about the thing to try to stop this from going forward. But meanwhile, Trump just knocked down the East Wing and just proceeded anyway. And then the loss, the legal back and forth.

And there's been a number of back and forths on this to stop it, to start it, to stop it, to start it. It got down to a judge stopping it, but then the first foray into national security came into play, which allows such stuff, such decisions to be made by presidents to do things on the basis of national security. The argument was made. Now that it's gone this far, national security issues are at stake if it's not continued. And so then a judge allowed, well, the work can continue underground because there's an underground aspect to it, but not above ground. And then another legal challenge came. And then that was stayed and then the work is continued. I walk by the White House as often as not in the way to work.

The work is continuing. But to your point, the fact that the administration is now using that national security thing again and again and again. And by the way, this plays into that, doesn't it? I think it can be viewed as they see that as their way forward to get the ballroom done the way they want it done by arguing national security. And as I say, in a sense, sorry conspiracy theorists, but in a sense, this plays right into the to that. Shopping for a car should be exciting, not exhausting. But sometimes it can feel like a maze.

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podcast. You know, as we've talked about, this is not the first potential attempt on Trump's life. And just how are we to kind of wrap our heads around this idea that it looks like someone might have tried to kill this president for the third time now? Like, I do not think that there is a historical president for this. Well, but is it? there? On the specifics, yes, you're right. But Trump himself, he came out and talked about how dangerous the gig is, right? You go by the numbers, the number of, you know, assassination attempts on U.S. presidents divided by the number of presidents, and the ratio is pretty high. Right? And Trump in his briefing last night compared it to race drivers and bull riders, right?

It's a dangerous profession. You know, I tell the story, race car drivers. I think it's very dangerous. So if you take 1%, and then take about 10% of 1%, just to break it down very easily, they die. So much less than 1%, 10% of 1%. I think bull riding is very dangerous. If you take about the same, 10% of 1%, much less than 1%, but if you take presidents, it's 5.8%. And about 8% are shot at.

So nobody told me this was such a dangerous profession. He's got a point, in a sense. It's a facile comparison in many ways. But on pure numbers, he's got a point. I mean, you start thinking about it, right? Even in the room last night, Jamie, you think about it, right? So that was at the Washington Hilton, where Reagan was shot in 1981, on the sidewalk outside the hotel where Trump, where that happened last night.

Yeah, incredible. coincidence, I guess. Yes. But you listen, I'm just getting started here, Jamie. So as well as Reagan, James Brady was shot, Reagan's press secretary in that same incident. James Brady, whom they have now named that blue briefing room that Trump was in last night and that the daily briefings are held in. That is, you know, officially, that's the James Brady briefing room, named after the guy who was shot at the Hilton.

In the room last night, along with Trump, was Robert F. Kennedy Jr., whose dad was shot and killed in 1968 at a political event at a hotel in California and whose uncle, of course, was JFK, who was shot and killed. Just up the highway is where George Wallace, Democratic presidential candidate, was shot in 1972, I want to say, right? You know, after things had calmed down a bit, that's when I was talking about the Secret Service coming in and grabbing all the cabinet secretaries and rushing them out to safety. So what are the people that Kate, I saw Cash Patel, walk right by our table because we were right by the main exit. And then all of a sudden, there's Steve Scalise, right? And many people may not know him, but he is the Republican House

majority leader, very senior Republican. He himself, recall, was shot at the congressional, I don't if it's for charity, but it sort of meant to be a feel good thing, a congressional baseball game in 2017. I saw him limping out because he still suffers from that shooting. That's what goes on in this country, James. I mean, we know it. I've done stories on this many times over the course of years, for all of the above reasons. Rarely do you experience it in person, in lifetime, in a room with the president and gunshots around the corner. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think that's a really good point, this idea that the political violence is a feature, not a bug. I think what I was trying to get at is that I don't think we've seen a president. There would be three attempts on his life. Like I was looking at FDR, 1933, JFK, obviously, 1962. Ford, 1975. Two, one on Reagan, Clinton, one incredible attempt in 1994.

You know, I was listening to Trump during this presser. Say that it means something. Yes. Say that if you try to do things, again, back to the first thing I thought when he was speaking last night, that politicized it by raising the ballroom.

First thing I thought was he, okay, he's using this to politicize himself. It's like, and then he went on to say when there's a president who tries to do, do things. They don't go after the ones that don't do much because they like it that way. And when you look at the people that have either, whether it was an attempt or a successful attempt, they're very impactful people. Just take a look at the names here, the big names. And I hate to say, I'm honored by that, but I've done a lot. We've done a lot. We've taken this country and

we were a laughingstock for years. And now we're the hottest. country anywhere in the world. We've changed his country. And there are a lot of people that are not happy about that. So I think that's the answer. To me, that echoed the fight, fight, fight, right, after Butler. When he raised his fist with the blood on his face. And again, maybe it was instinct. Maybe it was one of these things that just happens in the heat of the moment. Or maybe it was with intent to say, I'm going to use this politically. Fight, fight, fight, fight. We'll rile up people and say, look at what has happened to me because I'm trying to do something for you. I'm trying to help you. And yet the machine, the swamp, the other side, however you want to frame it, are out to get us.

And that came out in his briefing last night as well because it's the third time. And he's able to say, or he chose to say, that to frame himself as someone that is doing things and look at the price. So stick with me, stand by me. We've got to get this done. You can almost hear him saying. It's almost like a badge of honor, right? Like he doesn't see it as a symptom of a society that is deeply polarized with this hatred directed towards power whipped up by social media. I mean, I just thought it was a really interesting moment to listen to him to say that. Which he took full advantage of. And by the way, the notion. It's not surprising, really. It's not surprising.

He is, say what you will about Donald Trump. He's a politician who knows how to do those things. And he knows that they are effective. And he knows that people will be moved and will line up behind him when those words are spoken and basically effectively say, damn right. Damn right, I'm with you. You know, Paul, just to end today, the other thing that I was really struck by last night and that I found very surreal and that frankly, after listening to you describe what it was like in the moment, I feel that it is even more surreal now was how Trump was kind of very serious. soon after the shooting posting that he wanted to go on. We wanted to say tonight, I will tell you, I fought like hell this day.

But they, it was protocol. They said, please, sir. At one point, I think it was the president of the White House Correspondents Association, got up and said that the program would go on. And I know that they decided against that. But I just cannot imagine a situation in Canada. for example, an active shooter at an event with so many high-profile people in the prime minister, just even contemplating continuing on, that that would even be a possibility that the event would just pick up where it left off.

And like, what do you think about that? I couldn't, I couldn't believe it. First of all, I thought there's not a chance that Trump is even in the hotel at this point. And I, as he later said, it was protocol. Trump also said that he fought to stay and continue. Again, the fight, fight, fight from Butler came to mind, right. But there was protocol and that he had to be whisked away. Of course, that's the case.

But I'll tell you, when that was announced and we didn't, like, really? Like, are you kidding? The show is going to continue. In the corner of the ballroom began chance USA, USA. And I thought, and then it, in fairness, it faded. It didn't pick up. But I thought, really? The show must go on.

Is that a, is this a pro? I don't, I didn't know what to make of that. And in fairness, a lot of people were looking at each other and saying like, really? I can imagine. I mean, they said, now they're saying it'll be in 30 days time. And I'll come to the Canada thing in a second, Jamie. But so now they're saying it'll be restarted in 30 days time. Going into this event last night, the reason.

it was so interesting or expected to be interesting was because of what Trump would say, right? He had boycotted these things before. The relationship between Trump and the news media is extremely fraught. There was some people who boycotted it for that reason because of the notion of normalizing Trump with such an event. But the newsiness of it was, well, what's he going to say? How hard will he go? And Trump hinted at that at the briefing afterwards. I'm not going to be able to, you know, next time I won't be able to go as hard as I was planning to go. I was all set to really rip it. And I said to my people, this would be the most inappropriate speech ever made.

So I have to save it. I don't know if I could ever be as rough as I was going to be tonight. I think I'm going to be probably very nice. I'll be very boring the next time. That's what we expected. So I imagine in 30 days' time, I guess I don't imagine. I'm wondering what his tone will be then. Can you imagine the number of eyeballs on that speech when this comes back?

to your question on Canada, not a chance. I mean, I quite honestly can't imagine such anything of what we've just talked about happening in Canada at all. I guess because it's such an unreal circumstance to think could happen at a parliamentary press gallery dinner. I, I, I, my, there were so many things last night, Jamie, about which my jaw fell to the floor, including when I literally was. on the floor that I don't know what to make of. And I, and I, I sit here having not exhaled

yet and not knowing what to make of that initial attempt to restart the dinner. It was, I don't know what the word is, unusual. Yeah. Paul, you know, I hope you, I hope you don't mind me asking you this. I, I feel like I've spoken to you many times over the years and And you have such a long and storied career reporting from war zones. I think the last time we spoke, you were in Haiti under quite dangerous circumstances. And I know you sound rattled. I'm not sure would even be the right word. But certainly like this has really affected you.

Yeah, I don't know how to describe it, Jamie. I mean, yes, Haiti, there was gunfire and gangs in. In Gaza, I watched a building next to the one I was in get struck by a missile and blow up. I've had a tank turret pointed at me. I've watched the vehicle in front of mine in Afghanistan hit an IED that we were headed toward. But this feels different. I think because it was in Washington, D.C., in a room with the president, like five or six blocks from where I live in a place where this, despite the proliferation of violence and guns in

America, it's not supposed to happen here, but it did. And I'm kind of freaked out by it, to be honest, because it's, as much as it's become normalized, it made it completely non-normal at the same time. As I speak to you, my hands are sweaty, Jamie, because I'm sort of back in the moment for a second. And every time I hear on TV, the gunshots being replayed from last night, It kind of freaks me out, and my hair stands on end again because it's like, well, it's not, no, despite everything that's been going on around the planet and in this country for so long, it's not supposed to happen here. And I'm not supposed to be in the room when it happens. None of us were. And yet it did.

And I don't, I mean, I suppose this will fade over the course of time. But right now, I don't know if, not to get all psychoanalytical about it, but I don't know if I processed it because it was so close. It was so close. It was right there in front of us. We were part of it. collectively and in Washington, D.C., with the president, I don't know, it's a tough one. Paul, I want to thank you so much for this, and I hope you get some time to kind of decompress in the next couple of days a little bit at least. I'm really glad that you and the rest of our colleagues at Radio Canada are okay and that everybody's okay.

I'm really sorry you had to go through this. Thank you, Jamie. Thank you. All right, that is all for today. I'm Jamie Pousson. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.