Front Burner - After Siakam, what's next for the Raptors?

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Pascal Siakam was traded to the Indiana Pacers in a blockbuster deal last week that, for many, marked the end of the team’s 2019 championship era. So, what direction are the Raptors headed in? And how are fans feeling about saying goodbye to one of the most beloved players in franchise history? Freelance NBA writer and author of “Prehistoric: The Audacious and Improbable Origin Story of the Toronto Raptors”, Alex Wong, explains. For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Damon Fairless. The Akam 6'10", not only is he an all-star, he's a rising star, he's a champion. He's already a two-time All-NBA player. And, as of last week, he's no longer a Toronto Raptor. Basketball fans in Toronto are heartbroken today,

and that is because the Raptors are saying goodbye to one of the greatest, Pascal Siakam. Pascal Siakam was traded to the Indiana Pacers in a blockbuster deal that for many marked the end of the team's 2019 championship era. If you see this photo and go one by one, Kawhi and Lowry and Van Vliet, and they're all now that core group now gone. So what direction are the Raptors headed in? How well positioned is Toronto going into this summer's NBA draft?

And how are fans feeling about saying goodbye to arguably one of the most beloved players in franchise history? To talk about all that, our longtime Raptors watchers here, Alex Wong is a freelance NBA writer and the author of Prehistoric, the audacious and improbable origin story of the Toronto Raptors. Alex, it's great to have you here. Thanks for coming in. Thank you. Appreciate this. Are you in deep mourning? You sound like a man who might be in mourning with this trade.

Yeah, you know, the Raptors haven't made me or the fan base really happy this season. So I feel like I'm reflecting the entire fan base's mood here. Before we get into the trade and what it's meant for the Raptors, though, I want to start by talking about Pascal. You know, why is he so special? He's a guy who was, you know, going to go to school to be a priest, right? He kind of stumbles into basketball and then becomes amazing at it. So I guess, you know, like take me through his story. What made him feel like more than just a player to Toronto? Yeah, I think you touched on part of it.

He did not start playing seriously professional basketball until he was 17. And about a decade later, he's an NBA champion with the Toronto Raptors and not just an NBA champion. He was the second leading scorer on the team during the championship playoff run. He scored the game-clinching basket in the championship clinching game. And for a Raptors franchise that's always emphasized being great at player development, being able to spot players that maybe other teams don't think that they can develop.

Pascal Siakam is the best development story in the franchise's history. And I don't think anybody would dispute that. So the president of the Toronto Raptors, Masai Ujiri, he talked about the trade the other day and he got really emotional about it. It was actually really lovely.

Two African guys that won the championship share that with him he said that siakam success is his success no matter where he is all nba all all-star all everything championship and it's not stereotype championship of African waving the flag on the bench, scoring, contributing, doing everything that you can think of. Again, I say to you guys that that guy's success is my success, no matter where he is. It was just a great moment. Yeah, I think one of the best traits about Masai is that he does take this more personally than another general manager, another president of a basketball franchise would. Now, mind you, Masai can be as cutthroat and as cold-blooded as anybody else.

Mind you, Masai can be as cutthroat and as cold-blooded as anybody else. We've seen him trade some of the most beloved players in the city, DeMar DeRozan, as the prime example. But you can tell when Masai goes to the podium, when he talks about these players and he talks about the team, that there's just such a huge emotional attachment for him to these players and to the success of the franchise. It's really clear how Siakam's become a fan favorite. He's just incredibly affable, right?

Like just a generally lovely human being. There's actually this amazing moment when our team, the front burner team was at the OVO athletic center. We were taking an interview with a former Raptor, Fred Van Vliet, and this happened. Hi, we're with CBC. Hello. What's happening? They doing a podcast with Fred?

No, I'm like, that's kind of like having no gut. Thank you. They call me One Take Pete, that's my name, you know what I'm saying? So can you tell me, Alex, what are specific moments from Siakam's, you know, Raptors career that you think fans will remember. I think for Pascal, his first time making the All-Star team was a very special moment just because of part of the journey that we discussed earlier. I don't know. I don't know what to say. I don't know. I don't know what to say. It's just, it's crazy. It's crazy. I can't tell you anything right now. I'm still in shock right now. For him to take this path as a basketball player and become one of the best players in the world was just something that the city and the fan base

really came together to celebrate uh i think you know you can't forget the fact of him during the championship run winning the championship you know him celebrating with guys like f VanVleet, guys that he came up with in the Raptors organization to go from player in the Raptors 905 to a player on the bench to a starting player on a championship team. I think there were so many of those great moments. And I think people will forever remember Pascal at the NBA Finals and in the championship parade.

Now, you've been around large crowds before, but is there anything compared to the crowd that you saw here today? Say it one more time. You've been around large crowds before, but is there anything compared to the crowd you see? Oh, no way. This is the best thing I've ever seen in my whole life. It's incredible.

Spicy P! Spicy P! Spicy P! Spicy P! Spicy P! incredible spicy there was a there was a moment kind of like a the the inverse of that where you know he so he wrote a letter in the players tribune a few days ago and there's this beautiful moment he's talking about you know early on his career looking out of the crowd hoping to see a 43 jersey in the crowd not seeing it for a time. And then seeing that first one and just kind of like, you know, secretly freaking out inside. And then watching the number of, you know, his jerseys appear in the crowd over successive seasons. And then knowing that that's going to fade, right?

That those jerseys get fewer and fewer over successive seasons from here on out. I found that a really beautiful, beautiful story. Yeah, I think strangely, because Pascal has been in these trade rumors, thinking about what his next NBA destination might be, it's really made him very introspective and really reflect on his time here in Toronto, I think even before the trade was made official last week. And I think one thing Pascal doesn't have to worry about is based on his legacy here, he will be remembered as a top five all-time Raptor player. I couldn't imagine playing for any other team than the Toronto Raptors. That's something that I didn't even dare to think about. And the moment I had to start thinking about it was probably one of the hardest times

because in my head, it was difficult to just think about the idea of leaving. It never crossed my mind because I thought I'd be a rapper forever. You know, you think about a Vince Carter, you think about a Kyle Lowry. Sometimes I think Pascal, because at times his personality

can be a little bit more understated, he prefers to be more under the radar. He's not always celebrating on the court the way other players does. I think maybe at times he didn't stand out, but when you stack together his resume with all these other great players that have come through with the Raptors organization, like Pascal is right up there. So obviously, you know, Siakam is really important to Toronto, but he's also talked about how important the city is to him too. Can you tell me a bit about that? Yeah, for sure. You know, I think in his Players' Tribune essay after being traded, he talked a lot about, you know, the multicultural nature of Toronto, the different people that he was able

to meet, the different communities that he was able to tap into. And I think it speaks to who Pascal is as a person as well. You know, the work that he's done with his PS43 Foundation. He's always looking to tap into these different communities to give back to the youth. I just want to be remembered as someone that gave everything to the city, not only on the basketball court, but also outside of it. PS43 Foundation, creating a platform that's going to help the community. And me like that's my legacy like obviously the basketball accolades you know Masai talked at his post-trade press conference as well about how Pascal would approach him about how to help out more with Giants of Africa and other initiatives that MLSC had yeah you know Pascal

would come to me and ask me about Giants of Africa. He'd go to Larry Tannenbaum and ask him about rights to play, and how he wants to grow his foundation and some of the things he wants to do. When you look at a guy that has that kind of impact or that kind of capacity in our league. It's something. I think for Pascal, Toronto just became a second home.

It wasn't just the fact that he was playing for a basketball team in the city, is that he appreciated what the city meant, what the city represented. So I think there's

a much deeper appreciation with Pascal, with the city of Toronto than just being, putting on a Raptors uniform. One of the things that really stood out to me when he's talking about how important the city is to him is just like coming here and not, not really, you know, knowing how he's going to settle into it. And then kind of starting to realize how diverse the city is that he and his brother would go to like African food stores and there'd be a brand of fried plantain chips that

they really liked. And that would kind of remind them of home. Or there's meat that his brother liked for a particular dish. And he could get that and he connected to, he could still connect to his culture here. And I don't know, there's just something about that that really, you know, really connected with me. There was a lot of speculation swirling around about the possibility of a trade, especially last week. But then, you know, it happened. So what are the Raptors getting for letting go of Siakam? Yeah, what the Raptor…

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people, and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you

know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. What I ended up getting was three first round draft picks, a few potential prospects, and then a player in Bruce Brown who won a championship with the Denver Nuggets last year, is one of the best glue guys in the NBA, and could potentially be traded for more assets. Raptors are heading for a rebuild, so what they wanted was a combination of young players and

draft picks, and because Pascal is heading to free agency this summer, Masai wasn't really in a position to have that much leverage so given his positioning he was able to get what he wanted but I know there's a part of the fan base that that is disappointed at the return given the caliber of player that Pascal is so this is this is like a pivotal moment this is this is more than just you know one one final you know player from the 2019 uh championship leaving it's it's it's a chapter closing right an end of an era yeah and i think that plays into the emotion that masai jiri was showing last week and i think for the fan base too because since winning the championship in 2019

slowly the players on the championship roster have moved on with kyle lowry sergi baka marcus soul you could go on and og and ob being traded earlier this season and now Pascal Siakam. So yes, this is an end of an era. And I think slowly fans have had to accept coming from that championship high that this is just part of the cycle that all pro sports teams have to go through, losing a core group of players and having to confront the fact that it will take time for this franchise to rebuild and to bring in better players in order to get back to those heights again so and it's not just players right like

we've had a switch up in coaching too breaking news in the nba. The Toronto Raptors have fired their head coach, Nick Nurse. It closes the book on 10 years in Toronto for Nurse, including the past five as head coach. His biggest achievement there was... Yeah, you know, Nick Nurse, who coached the Raptors to the championship, parted ways with the organization, ended up joining the Philadelphia 76ers, and the Raptors wanted to move in a new direction, play with a new system. Masai talked a lot about there being too much selfish play last year. He wanted to have more ball movement, sharing of the ball. So he brought in Darko Ryakovic, who's been an assistant coach in basketball circles for over a decade, gave him his first chance to be an NBA head coach. And the Raptors aren't

winning a lot of games right now, but they are changing the way that they're playing. They've had very high, recorded games of very high assist. They're moving the ball around. Now you need better players to be able to, you know, combine that system with better players to actually win. But they've brought in Darko to try to change their style of play for this season. And so, you know, presumably the player change, coaching changes, this is all necessary because it hasn't been so good, right? Yeah, the past two years have been very frustrating. Last year, the team made the play-in tournament and lost to the Chicago Bulls. This year, they are well below.500 and looking like they're going to be on the outside

looking in for the playoffs. You know, the objective for this team now is to build around Scotty Barnes, who, you know, has emerged as a star player this season. And that's part of the calculus of why Masai has decided to finally move on from players that he, you know, got really attached to, like OGN and OB and Pascal Siakam. I just want to go back before we move on to, you know, looking forward to the future here.

Take me back to the 2019, you know, championship team. How important was that Toronto? What did that mean for the city and for the Raptors in general? Yeah, you know, I think, you know, for the Toronto Raptors, it really legitimized them because they had been one of the most successful teams during the regular season for a decade leading up to that point. But teams are only measured by championships. And for them to bring a championship to the city of Toronto, you know, think further out you think about you know the championship drought that the Toronto Maple Leafs have gone through you know the Toronto Blue Jays have been waiting since the 90s to to win a world series I think it meant a lot to the city and I think it meant a lot

to this next generation of kids in the city who want to play basketball for them to get so involved and to see a team in their own city succeed. You know, I think sometimes it's really hard immediately to measure the impact of that, but you're going to see 5, 10, 15, 20 years out in the same way that you see NBA players, Canadian NBA players today talk about how much it meant to see the Raptors, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago. I think you're going to see the same impact. Okay. So let's, let's look ahead to the future now. So it wasn't that long ago we were hearing reports that actually the Raptors were not into doing a reset or a tear down or a rebuild. That's clearly changed. So what are the factors that have changed? Why this pivot? I think the team just underperformed the last two seasons. I think

Maasai believed that some of the players from the championship team, including Fred Van Vliet, OG Ananobi, and Pascal Siakam, combined with the drafting of Scottie Barnes, was going to give them a path forward. And unfortunately, the pieces just did not mesh. I think individually, they're all great players, but they weren't able to find that chemistry the same way that we saw with the 2019 championship team and Fred Van Vliet left in free agency last season and, you know, Ogier, Nolbe, and Pascal Siakam were both due for huge contracts this summer and Masai had to make the decision based on what he saw on the court that he did not want to bet on building this core group going forward. And instead, he's going to move forward

with a different group with Scotty Barnes as the centerpiece. And do we have a sense yet of what direction Masai's taking the team in? Like, do we have specifics of a plan yet? going to have possibly four of the top 31 draft picks in this summer's NBA draft now so that could facilitate them getting two or three really good young players to the point where you know you could see a completely different version of the team next season you know right now there aren't really specifics I think we have to wait till the summer to see what direction Masai wants to take this team in the one thing I can say is you say is I would look for the Raptors to continue getting younger on the roster for next season and beyond. So it really sounds like, because Scottie Burns is 22, I think, and so the idea is to get him set up with a bunch of peers and they kind of all come up together with him being the central pillar of that?

bunch of peers and they kind of all come up together with him being the central pillar of that yeah so this is really similar to kind of you know one really good example in the nba is oklahoma city thunder which canadian basketball fans might be familiar with because shea gilgers alexander is the best player on that team and you know the the oklahoma city team have spent the last half decade basically accumulating draft picks, ticking young players, and surrounding Shea with players that are coming up at the same time. So if Raptors fans want to look at a model, that is the model. And this year, the Oklahoma City Thunder, after half a decade of really struggling, are now one of the best teams in the league. So if there is a model, that's the model for the Raptors.

But again, I think the key thing to recognize is this is going to take some time. How are you feeling about this? You know, it's strange. Like you mentioned earlier, the end of an era. Like, you know, eras in basketball with pro sports teams, they don't just change overnight. Like, it happens like this. It slowly kind of moves away over a period of time. And for the Raptors, this happened from the 2019 championship until now, five years. Like it took five years for it to really completely turn over. And I do think it does take a little bit time to accept the fact that because the Raptors have been so successful for over a decade now, now Raptors fans and myself have to accept the fact that better times, you know, will be ahead,

but it's going to be a little rough in the short term before we get back there. So it's weird because, like, it's been a long time since Raptors fans have had to think about a rebuild. Right. So I assume, you know, with a rebuild like that, there's some trepidation, a little bit of anxiety.

But in the near term, you know, before we get to that next phase of greatness, you know, hopefully, there's going to be a lot of interesting things. What are you excited about in the near future? are going to do with this team you know as successful as this team was you know they've really been in a holding pattern the past few years hoping for their present roster to develop and now they've opened up flexibility they have draft picks they have younger players that they can go out and get they have different options in terms of what kind of players they want to put around scotty i think there's an excitement in that, to see a breath of fresh air, to see this team under a new leader on the court, a new style of play. I think optimism will come out of this, and I think a lot of it will hinge on what the team does this summer and what the team looks like heading into next season. Awesome. Alex, thanks so much. Really appreciate

it. Thank you. All right, that's itbc.ca slash podcasts.