Front Burner - After the lockdown: Life returns to Wuhan

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

It’s a historic moment in Wuhan, China: After 76 days, the city where COVID-19 first emerged has ended its extreme lockdown, allowing people to enter and leave the city. We speak to a Wuhan resident who has just been able to leave her apartment complex for the first time since January, and to a journalist who tells us how government authorities are trying to prevent future spikes of COVID-19.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. So yesterday was a big day in Wuhan. That's of course the city in China where COVID-19 first emerged. And 11 million people there have been living under a very severe lockdown since the end of January.

Nobody in, nobody out. But as of yesterday, that quarantine has been lifted, meaning people are finally able to travel outside of Wuhan and it's another step towards slowly resuming normal life in the city. I haven't been out since January 21st. This is the first time I left the house today. Now I'm going back home to meet my parents. Do they miss you? Of course. Don't speak to me anymore. I'll start to cry if you say more because it happened so suddenly. The reopening follows some good news.

Just three new cases of COVID-19 were reported in Wuhan in the last three weeks. Three new cases of COVID-19 were reported in Wuhan in the last three weeks. And on Tuesday, for the first time since January, China reported no new deaths from coronavirus. It's obviously a really exciting moment for people in that city. And for those of us watching from Canada, where cases are still climbing, the story of Wuhan might give us some hints about where we're headed, and also what we might need to worry about in the future. I'm going to talk to a reporter in China about that, but first, I wanted to hear from Maxine Leo. She's much for talking to me today.

Well, I feel happy to do this and I'm happy to talk to you too. Oh wonderful. So before we get to what's happening today, I just want to put this in a little bit of context. How long have you been stuck in your apartment for? Since January 23rd until yesterday. Yeah, it was about 75 days. Yeah. That seems like a long time, hey? So you couldn't even go outside to get a little bit of exercise? At the beginning, no. Can you tell me what it was like for you? For example, like how were you able to get food? So at the first like one week,

we are still allowed to go out to buy groceries, but slowly the management getting more strict. So the community told us that we can just tell the community what we need. So then they will contact supplier and the supplier will deliver food to us. Then we go down at the gate to get our food. So the community in your apartment complex, they're helping order food in like a very centralized way. And also they're sort of policing people's behavior in your apartment complex to make sure that you're not going outside too much.

Is that fair for me to say? Yeah, yeah. So every small community will be responsible for your safety. So the government will like send them, hey, this is the news recently. This is the regulations recently. So please make sure that everyone is safe. Yeah.

What's that been like for you mentally to be cooped up in your apartment for 75 days, especially in such a terrible crisis like this? Well, I have to say it's a very historical moment for everyone in china and to wuhanese so at the beginning staying at home we have a little bit like a curiosity like we're curious what happened exactly like uh and also we have a little bit like anxious because we don't know like how long will we be staying inside. As for me personally, I like I try best to find something to do to like enjoy my time. You know, it's it's a it's pretty hard a little bit. What do you do? What did you do to enjoy your time?

First, I will like watch movie with my boyfriend um then we uh we sometimes play puzzle and we'll play uh poker okay and uh yeah we will enjoy wine and uh also like we will have talk you know i have to say it's a good time for couples who are living together to understand each other better. We will talk a lot of different topics, you know. So at some level, this helped me improve the relationship with my boyfriend. Oh, that's good to hear. That is very good to hear. I imagine that might not be the case for everybody, right? To anybody else? I don't know. But at least to me, as well as

we are getting closer. I understand, though, that in the beginning, you had a hard time with panic attacks. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Oh, yeah. So I had a little bit of panic attack. So this was pretty like new to me, right? So I don't know what happened. I just started to feel anxious and I feel a little bit hard to breathe. Luckily, my boyfriend was here. So he helped me a lot lot so I think probably I first I read too much sad stories like I know there's a lot of people got infected so I feel sorry for them and um also because I don't know uh when can I get out again so I yeah that just happened I'm sorry to hear that you had to go through that I know that today the lockdown was lifted in Wuhan and what has that meant for you practically

like are you allowed to go out now or yeah yeah we we are allowed to go go out and me and my boyfriend we went outside and we went to the convenience shop we bought mango juice and yogurt and whole dry noodles uh then we get our scooter fixed then we went on a ride to east lake i just feel like wuhan is now like slowly going back to their normal routine this city is going back to their normal routine. The city is going back to their like lively life again. I feel so excited. I'm happy. Maxine, I'm so glad that you were able to go and get some noodles and go for a scooter ride today. That must have felt really good after 75 days cooped up. I'm wondering if all that time in lockdown has changed your perspective on anything like if there's anything you're thinking about differently now than when the quarantine started.

Well it is actually changed my life attitude a lot like I think a lot be or what's the meaning of life and I realized like before I was like kind of person who got with friends a lot and I used to have a lot of friends but slowly I realized like who are the most important people to me yeah and also what kind of life you're going to have in the future. Because, you know, who knows? Right, this has sort of put things in perspective for you. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I'm really appreciative and wishing you a wonderful and healthy future. Thank you. I believe I will be and will be.

And thank you. I'm glad to talk to you too. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. So as people start to return to something a little closer to normal life in Wuhan and across China, officials are worried about another spike in the virus. So I spoke to Sean Yuan.

He's a journalist who's been reporting on life in Wuhan and across China, and he's in the southwestern city of Chengdu. Hi, Sean. Thank you so much for being here. Hi, thanks for having me. So I know that you were just listening in on my conversation with Maxine. Reactions? Yeah, I think it definitely maps onto what I've been talking to, you know, with Wuhan locals. The restrictions are loosened and uh the life is definitely getting more and more back to normalcy shopping malls and retail plazas are slowly reopening in

wuhan city i'm very excited and happy for the first day of reopening today i think being able to be healthy and leave the house and meet with other colleagues who are also healthy is a very happy thing it might seem very ordinary but after enduring the are also healthy is a very happy thing. It might seem very ordinary, but after enduring the epidemic, being safe is a blessing. But I don't think that's a universal phenomenon right now. There are still a lot of neighborhoods where you still cannot get out. Can you tell me more about that? Why? Why are there still a lot of neighborhoods where you can't get out? Yeah, so April 8th is a very dramatic date. And it's the day when the official lockdown is lifted. So a lot of people had high hopes in terms of

what this would mean to Wuhan, what would this mean for the outbreak in China in general. But I think that's overhyped. And the problem, the situation is that yes, of course, right now, people could leave Wuhan now and people from other provinces or cities could go into the city. But for those people who are living in their apartments, who are stuck in their apartment buildings, that does not change too much because there are still a lot of asymptomatic cases in Wuhan. And with more people coming into Wuhan, there's definitely a more complex situation in terms of the control and provision of the outbreak. Because before this, everything was inside Wuhan. Nobody could get out and nobody could get in.

So they could control the situation a little bit better. But now, since the channel is open, there will be a lot more flow of people. And that will inevitably cause some concerns in terms of whether there will be another spike of viruses. Yeah, Sean, can you tell me a little bit more about how they're enforcing this? How do they know where these asymptomatic people are? How are they able to kind of decide which apartment complexes or areas are shut down versus others? Yeah. So for those neighborhoods that do not have remaining cases, they will have a much more loosened restrictions.

So they will allow people to get out. And when you come back, they will check your temperature. And for those neighborhoods that still have remaining cases, they will definitely have a more strict restriction. And the problem right now is that, as I told you earlier, that there are more and more asymptomatic cases showing up. And a lot of neighborhoods actually rebranded to high-risk areas, meaning those compounds were kind of locked up again. Right. Why are there more and more asymptomatic cases showing up?

So asymptomatic cases before this, they were not counted in the official tally. And the number did not get released until April 1st. So nobody really knew what was happening before April 1st. How many asymptomatic cases were there in total? According to those same health authorities, there are currently 1,541 such cases in the country right now. Another 78 people tested positive for the virus but don't have any symptoms. That's up from the 47 infections recorded just 24 hours ago. So once that gate is open, a lot more people are paying attention to this.

And you mentioned that people are coming in and out of Wuhan more. So tell me a little bit more about that. So today was the first day where people would be able to leave Wuhan. And last night at midnight, they dismantled the roadblocks. And it was a very dramatic moment, of course. And then, according to the data released by the, I think, Ministry of Transportation today, about 55,000 people from Wuhan left the city. And 40% of them went to the Pearl River Delta, which hosts big cities like Shenzhen or Guangzhou, where normally they have a lot of people coming

from across the country to work. So for a lot of people, most of them who have been stuck at home for two months without any sort of income, they desperately needed to get out of the city to get back to work. And also there are some people who are from other provinces or even other cities who happen to get stuck in Wuhan when the lockdown was imposed. So they were in the city for 76 days. And this is the first chance for them to actually leave. It sounds incredibly stressful for them. Yeah.

Just to go back to this idea of certain areas in wuhan being locked down and the concerns now that we're seeing more movement especially out of wuhan how are authorities actually policing this you know how how do they do this practically you know ensure that people who are asymptomatic are being tested and then you know they're being quarantined so are a couple of things that I think the government is really pushing right now. The first one is the health code. So anyone in this country, if you want to travel to somewhere else, you have to apply for a health code. And in this app, they will ask you where you've been in the past 14 days, whether you have been in close contact with anyone who has been suspected of having contracted coronavirus. And you know, those basic questions, and if you answer no to all of 14 days, whether you have been in close contact with anyone who has been suspected of having

contracted coronavirus, and you know, those basic questions. And if you answer no to all of them, you will get a green code. And that green code will pretty much give you a safe pass to everywhere. So most people will try to log in every day to say where they've been, whether they have been to those places that have been declared, whether for example, if they find a patient in the supermarket, and if you have been to the supermarket before, you should declare it and then your code will probably turn to yellow or if you have been close contact with someone who's been um uh confirmed or having contracted virus your code will turn red when in which case you get quarantined so uh that's one of the um firmest push pushes for the from the government to kind of make sure that they can police this whole thing.

And then second of all, just make sure that, you know, the virus doesn't get transmitted too widely. Because I think the government is well aware of the fact that if as soon as the lockdown is over, there will be some more cases coming up because of the, you know, increased flow of people. But so they have been pushing for the idea that everyone needs to wear a mask. And no matter where you go, especially if you go to a public place and if you go to indoor spaces, you have to get your temperature checked. So I think it's more a kind of cohesive and robot system to make sure that after the lockdown is lifted,

there will not be a second huge spike of cases across the country. Right, sort of like a suite of tools, heavy, heavy surveillance, masks, and like a series of other checkpoints that the authorities have put in. That's really interesting to hear how they're trying to manage this. Now, I know you're in Chengdu, which has been more open for a longer period of time. And so what's it like there right now? For now, for the past two weeks, I think you started to see life to get back to normal. For example, two and a half weeks ago, a very famous sign for people in chendu because that's just such a powerful symbol of life getting back to normal for a city that is just branded as a city of hot pot and then it's such a social way to eat too right so exactly yes exactly gyms are open and most

restaurants are open um i think theaters are scheduled open open soon as well. So life is definitely getting back to track in Chengdu. So I think that's the case for a lot of cities across this country as well. Sean, can I ask you, you know, when you take a step back and you try to look at the big picture here in Wuhan and Chengdu, what is the damage that's been done in terms of lives, in terms of the economy? Let me put it this way. Twelve years ago in 2008, we had this major earthquake in Sichuan and it killed about 70,000 people. But it also left more than 50,000 people dealing with serious injuries. High school senior Zhao Chunling losing her hand in the quake. She's working double time to keep up, but refuses to complain.

A boy trapped beneath me helped dig me out of the rubble, but he didn't survive. I think about him constantly. It was a national tragedy and we never thought we could get out of this misery because Chengdu was pretty much at the epicenter of the earthquake. A lot of people died. And then we were discussing what kind of impact that would have on our country and on our people and on the economy. And the same thing happening right now in Wuhan or in China in general about this pandemic. So as you said, the mental health part, you were talking to Maxine about how many people were actually having, for example, panic attacks and developing anxiety and depression just by simply being stuck and quarantined in an apartment for 76 days in the epicenter of this pandemic. You know, like a lot of people would know someone

who had contracted virus, maybe who had died from the virus as well. And the thing about Wuhan is there were clusters of infections in family units. If you talk to someone who got infected, it's very likely that his relative in the same house who got infected as well, and some people might even have passed away. The people do not personally know anyone or personally being affected by the coronavirus. It is still a collective memory and collective tragedy that we feel towards this whole epidemic in China. And that's the damage to how much we can calculate this. We have years to come to make sure that we understand what has been done and what we can do to remedy it. And in terms of the economy, in terms of economy, according to the statistics released by the National Bureau of Statistics, I think last month,

the first quarter of 2020 saw the highest unemployment rates in Chinese history since there was record. unemployment rates in Chinese history since there was record. And not just China, you know, across the world right now with Canada, with the U.S., with Europe. Not since the Great Depression has Alberta's economy been hit harder or faster. Alberta Premier Jason Kenney says the unemployment rate is expected to hit a startling 25 percent or higher. We will face a great fiscal reckoning in the future. Those major economic hops, they are all taking a big hit of this coronavirus. So I think it's going to take a long time for the world and China to kind of recover from this.

Okay. Shan Yuan, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. So listening to Shan, I was really struck by the level of surveillance he was describing in China, how people have to report all their movements each day, how they're given a green or yellow or red pass card, essentially. And this is just one of the ways authorities are trying to keep a lid on the virus as the economy gets up and running again. Well, related conversations are happening around the globe too. In Europe, for example, the idea of an immunity passport or antibody passport has been floated. It would be given to people who have already had the virus and thought to have built up an immunity to it.

And restrictions would then be eased for them. This idea, though, is still in its early stages because there are still a lot of questions about how COVID-19 immunity plays out in people infected. And as we've talked about on the show before, Israel has used cell phone data to retrace the movements of people infected. Hong Kong has been using tracking bracelets. So this is a really important angle of the story that we're going to be keeping a close eye on and especially what could happen here in Canada. So stay tuned. That's it for today, though. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner and talk to you later. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.