Front Burner - Aging Presidential candidates loom over VP debate

Episode Date: October 8, 2020

Last night, Vice-Presidential candidates Mike Pence and Kamala Harris faced off in their one and only debate of the 2020 campaign. The debate comes less than a week after Donald Trump was diagnosed with coronavirus, and in a race between the two oldest presidential candidates in US history. Today, CBC Washington Correspondent Katie Simpson recaps the unusually significant VP debate.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Josh Bloch. Just days after Donald Trump was admitted and then released from hospital, infected with an illness that has taken the lives of more than 200,000 Americans,

vice presidential picks Mike Pence and Kamala Harris faced off in a debate. The American people have had to sacrifice far too much because of the incompetence of this administration. It is asking too much of the people. Joe Biden says democracy is on the ballot. The American economy, the American comeback is on the ballot. It's an old cliche that vice presidents are a heartbeat away from the presidency. But Donald Trump and Joe Biden, they're the two oldest presidential candidates in U.S. history.

Late last night, CBC Washington correspondent Katie Simpson and I spoke to break down this especially significant vice presidential debate. This is FrontBurner. Hello, Katie. Hello. So, you know, I think it's fair to say that that debate felt pretty different. I almost felt like it was an alternate universe than the one from last week between Trump and Biden. I mean, how would you describe the tone of the debate tonight?

Well, none of the pundits came out of this debate describing it as a dumpster fire or an S-word show. So that is something. It was a completely different tone, calmer. There was less interrupting. There was still some interrupting, though. We'll get to that in a moment. There was some discussion of policy positions. We didn't really see that in the presidential debate last week. But don't get me wrong, there was still plenty of dodging and people were relying, both candidates were relying on talking points as well. At times, Mike Pence tried to appear respectful to Harris, saying it's an honor to share the stage with her. Well, look, I respect the fact that Joe Biden spent 47 years in public life. I respect your public service as well. Thank you. And this was a very deliberate approach after Trump took a bit

of a hit in the polls following the combative tone he had last week. But it didn't. Yeah, but it didn't last, though. One thing I want to point out is when he did interrupt Senator Harris, she called him out on it and she would pause and she would say, I am speaking. This is important. And I want to add, Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking. I'm speaking. If you don't mind letting me finish, I want to add, Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking. I have to weigh in. I'm speaking. If you don't mind letting me finish, we can then have a conversation. Okay?

Please. Okay. And those moments will be remembered, particularly by many of the women watching, who've been in situations where men talk over them. So that was something that she was clearly prepared for and tried to make the most of that moment. And even the optics of the debate were different in terms of the stage setup. I mean, the candidates are seated and they're sitting behind plexiglass. Yeah, and that is something that is obviously different from the last debate.

The Harris campaign, the Harris team had asked for those plexiglass dividers because Vice President Mike Pence, even though he'd been cleared by his doctors, that it was fine for him to be there. There is concern because there is this raging outbreak of coronavirus at the White House, and a number of people connected to the Trump campaign have also become sick, become infected as well. So that is a concern. It also allows the Harris campaign to have some optics in their favor there, because when Americans are looking at the debate stage,

they're having a constant reminder of the crisis unfolding in front of them. They can't ignore it when they look at those plexiglass dividers. So I guess it's not surprising that the first topic that the candidates addressed in the debate was about the coronavirus pandemic. And Kamala Harris came out swinging on that issue. The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country. And here are the facts. 210,000 dead people in our country in just the last several months. Over 7 million people who have contracted this disease.

One in five businesses closed. Mike Pence, of course, is the head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. He has been since late February. How did he defend his administration's record on this? Well, he tried to sort of attack the Biden-Harris ticket, saying when he takes a look at what they're planning to do, he says it's a lot like plagiarism. And he said something to the effect of... Which is something Joe Biden knows a little bit about.

Kamala Harris had some of her strongest moments of the night when she spoke about both the White House handling of the pandemic as well as concerns around health care

and concerns about what is going to happen to insurance in the United States based on the position of the Trump administration. This means that there will be no more protections if they win for people with pre-existing conditions.

This means that over 20 million people will lose your coverage. She really went after sort of the uncertainty that everyday Americans are facing. And she didn't necessarily level her attacks about the crisis unfolding at the White House right now and all of the chaos around all the people who are currently coming down with the illness. She really tried to relate to, you know, average voters, families, talking about the millions of Americans who are now waiting for food handouts at food banks because, you know, parents have lost their jobs.

You know, parents have lost their jobs. There are millions of people who are out of work right now. And there's so much uncertainty because of this pandemic and really tried to pivot to blame the Trump administration. How calm were you when you were panicked about where you're going to get your next roll of toilet paper? How calm were you when your kids were sent home from school and you didn't know when they could go back? How calm were you when your children couldn't see your parents because you were afraid they could kill them? Now, Mike Pence, in his defense of his handling of the pandemic, remember, he is the head of the coronavirus task force. He tried to take the way Kamala Harris attacked the administration and tried to say that she was attacking Americans themselves,

trying to say it's disrespectful to the people on the front lines. But she was really going after the administration and the decisions it was making. She wasn't going after the actual people on the front lines the way that Mike Pence tried to spin it. President Trump and I trust the American people to make choices in the best interest of their health. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris consistently talk about mandates. He also pointed a number of times to the fact that they closed the border to China early on and that, you know, Biden didn't support that move. He said it was hysterical. He said it was xenophobic. Well, so there was twice he said that the Trump administration cut off all travel from China.

That's not true. They did place restrictions on travel from China in January, late January. However, tens of thousands of people still were able to get into the country. This is something that is regularly fact checked here in Washington because it's a claim that Donald Trump makes on a regular basis. We heard Mike Pence repeat that as well. It's also of note that a number of coronavirus cases, some of the early cases that came into New York, they actually came in from Europe. So when Mike Pence leans into that, that is something that Donald Trump says on a regular basis and is not true. Pence obviously had his own knockouts that he was trying to, you know, win against Harris and Biden. And he repeatedly said that a Biden-Harris White House would ban fracking. And I was kind of surprised at how much time that actually took, that he kept coming back to this issue of fracking.

Senator Harris, you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. You yourself said on multiple occasions when you were running for president that you would ban fracking. What was he trying to accomplish there? So the specific issue of fracking is really big in the state of Pennsylvania. And Pennsylvania is a key state that is really important in this election race.

Right now, Joe Biden is leading in that state. And early in the Democratic primary season, a couple of candidates, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, had both said that they would support a ban on fracking. And that was a big concern in Pennsylvania because there are hundreds of thousands of jobs related to that industry and those jobs could be killed. So that's why Mike Pence is really leaning into that fracking issue. But also it speaks to his bigger goal of tonight. He's trying to paint Kamala Harris as

sort of the de facto leader of the radical left in the Democratic Party, sort of the quiet champion of the policies of Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, the people that Donald Trump has sort of painted as socialists who are out to change dramatically the way of life, bring in socialized medicine, bring in a Green New Deal that will kill millions of American jobs. That was Mike Pence's goal tonight. That was his number one thing. And he returned to that argument time and time again. You put your radical environmental agenda ahead of American autoworkers is probably why Newsweek magazine said that Kamala Harris was the most liberal member of the United states senate in 2019

more liberal than bernie sanders uh more more liberal than any of the others it will rally his base it will be a shareable moment that they can put out there on social media that will pick up with republicans and reinforce that trump base uh but it's not necessarily going to go over so well with democrats democrats don't necessarily look at kam at Kamala Harris as a champion of the progressive left, not as progressive as Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. Right. And another point that Pence brought up and really challenged Harris on was around the Supreme Court nomination. And Pence asked if a Biden-Harris ticket would, what he called, pack the courts, basically add extra judges to try and change the ideological makeup of the court.

Now, you've refused to answer the question. Joe Biden has refused to answer the question. So I think the American people would really like to know. Tell me about how Harris responded to that. Harris had a big dodge on that one. She absolutely would not answer that question. And Mike Pence really nailed her down on that. Let's talk about banking. Once again, gave a non-answer. Joe Biden gave a non-answer.

I'm trying to answer you now. American people deserve a straight answer. The big concern around this is, of course, that Donald Trump has already picked someone to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Amy Coney Barrett, there is concern in Democratic circles, big concern, that she is going to help overturn some major progressive policy laws in the United States. Concern about access to abortion, concern about gay rights. And this is something the Democrats are actively campaigning on, saying that this is a deep concern. But if she is confirmed, it will slant the court in a 63 favor in conservatives.

And so is there an option to expand the court at another two seats so there's still an uneven number of justices, but pack the court with two more progressive voices? That is something that the conservatives in the United States have floated saying, hey, you know what? You better vote for Donald Trump.

You like his Supreme Court nominee picks and you like what they've done at the lower court level. Unless you want more progressive voices on that bench, you better vote for Donald Trump. And that's actually a very effective voting tactic or motivation in the United States. I just want the record to reflect she never answered the question. So maybe the next debate, Joe Biden will answer the question. But I think the American people know the answer. Thank you, Vice President. I don't know if it was then or at some point, I have to say I got super distracted when Pence was talking.

And at one point, a fly, a really big fly landed on his head, and it didn't move for like two minutes. And I saw actually, it was just has been trending on Twitter as well. I can't imagine that that Trump liked seeing that. No, Trump is the president is someone who is very into optics. And the Biden campaign is already trying to seize on this. They put out a campaign ad saying, give us $5 to help this campaign fly. And it's a photo of Joe Biden sitting holding a fly swatter. So that is already happening as it does in the world of campaigns and the rapid response from the war rooms that are out there trying to capitalize on those moments. But actually, the fly flew on his head at a really important moment of the debate when they were talking about, I believe it was race and injustice and concerns about what's going on in the criminal justice system. This presumption

that you hear consistently from Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, that America is systemically racist, and that as Joe Biden said, that he believes that law enforcement has an implicit bias against minorities, is a great insult. The president of the United States took a debate stage in front of 70 million Americans and refused to condemn white supremacists. Not true. And it wasn't like he didn't have a chance. He didn't do it.

And then he doubled down. And, you know, the fact that the fly is what everyone is talking about probably sends a signal that perhaps not that much has changed in terms of people's opinions when it comes to who they're going to be voting for. It's important to remember, most people have already made up their minds about this election. There are very few undecided voters left at this point because the climate is so polarized. You know, I mentioned in the introduction that these vice presidential debates feel particularly important because of the ages of these presidential candidates. There's serious questions also about the president's health right now, even as he insists that he feels great. But it does feel like it gives more weight to this debate and to who these two vice presidential candidates are? Well, you know, this issue came up because, of course, you know, Donald Trump would be 74 if

he's sworn in for a second term. Joe Biden would be, he would be 78, I believe it would be, if he's sworn in, if he wins. And so these are two senior citizens. The president currently has coronavirus, and that is something that could have long-term consequences on his health. And so it is a legitimate question that people look at these two candidates because there is a larger chance than in regular times

that there could be an issue, whether it's a temporary issue or some sort of permanent concern, where they may have to step up and step into a role sooner than anyone would expect. Have you had a conversation or reached an agreement with President Trump about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue? Well, Susan, thank you, although I would like to go back. I think we need to move on. Well, thank you, but I would like to go back. I think we need to move on. Well, thank you, but I would like to go back. Tell me more about who Mike Pence is and what kind of president he

might be. Well, Mike Pence is one of the president's most enthusiastic cheerleaders in both public and in private. And what we've learned from actually what I've learned from talking with some sources who deal with the White House on a regular basis is that by being such an enthusiastic supporter of Donald Trump, no matter what the situation is, he's actually been able to keep the president's ear. And at times, Donald Trump does listen to him and he really seeks to have that influence. Mike Pence is a former governor. He's actually a former broadcaster, a former talk show host. And what he's most known for is when he was governor is he, well, number one, he is a man of faith. He is deeply devoted to his religion. And he is one of the strongest social conservatives with the most power in the United States.

He said it on the stage tonight. He is unapologetically pro-life. I couldn't be more proud to serve as vice president to a president who stands without apology for the sanctity of human life. He, in public, has fought against same-sex marriage, and that was actually something that brought him to national attention when he was the governor of Indiana.

And so he's sort of been cast by Democrats as someone who would take America a step back and raising concern that he would implement policies that could, you know, walk back some civil rights, some equal rights. And that has been really a strong argument that Democrats have tried to land against Mike Pence. The president tapped him to be the leader of the coronavirus task force. But again, there are some serious questions about how that really has gone, given that 210,000 are dead.

Right. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years.

I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. of Biden's age is something that was of interest to the moderator as well. I mean, she explicitly asked Kamala Harris whether she and Joe Biden had had conversations about what would happen in the event that she would have to take over the presidency. And if not, and if you win the election next month, do you think you should? How did Kamala Harris respond to that? She dodged that one as well. And I went back and looked at the transcript to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

And she pivoted and talked about the day that Joe Biden gave her a call and offered her the role to say, hey, you know what, let's do this together. And I think Joe has asked me to serve with him because he knows that we share. We share a purpose, which is about lifting up the American people. And so she really didn't go there. But Democrats are looking at her as a potential future leader of this party, a potential future Democratic presidential nominee. And it's going to be an interesting sort of path for Kamala Harris, because while the right wants to paint her as the leader of the radical left,

she doesn't really satisfy many on the progressive left within the party who say she doesn't have positions that are strong enough on climate change. She didn't do enough for justice reform when she was the attorney general in California, and that she doesn't have a strong enough position on health care. She originally did support Medicare for All, which is a big Bernie Sanders platform campaign that he ran on, wasn't successful, but it really resonated with a lot of people. She originally supported it and then pulled herself back. And that was why some of her, when she was running for the nomination, there had been so much sort of, she couldn't seem to take a position on a number of

key issues, kind of trying to straddle the more centrist part of the party and and the left and it didn't wash with members of the democratic party and she was out before i or before iowa so the democrats are going to remember that they're going to look at that but they are rooting for her because at this stage in the game whenever we traveled across the united states before the pandemic hit we would go to uh different campaigns for the different caucuses and uh different uh primary votes and the number one thing we heard from people who are still trying to make up their minds about who they wanted to support on the democratic party and this is of course us talking democrats they would have their pick and they say no matter what though doesn't matter

who gets a nomination we will vote for them because they're basically voting to vote donald trump out right and that i guess at the end of the day, with everything that is going on, even in these extraordinary times, can a vice presidential pick like Kamala Harris or Mike Pence really move anybody's needle right now? It's really a big question. This election is a referendum on Donald Trump and really is a referendum on how Donald Trump has handled the pandemic. Donald Trump has very active, very enthusiastic supporters. Will they show up in the same numbers that they did in 2016? That's the big question.

But I think the bigger question is Hillary Clinton did not energize voters the way that Barack Obama did. And that was a big part of why she did not win in 2016. They also need African-American voters to get behind the party ticket because in 2016, tens of thousands of African-American voters did not show up in key swing states for Hillary Clinton, and that was another reason why she lost. So that is what the Democrats are trying to do. The more enthusiastic the overall outcome

is in terms of overall turnout, the more likely it is that the Democrats have a shot at winning this. That is how Democrats look at this and have always looked at this. If the voter turnout is higher, the higher the chance they have to win. Katie, thank you so much for speaking with me today. Anytime. Thank you so much for speaking with me today. Any time. The next presidential debate is slated to take place on October 15th, though it's uncertain if it will actually happen. Donald Trump says he intends to participate, but Joe Biden says it should not go ahead if Donald Trump still has COVID-19. That's all for today. I'm Josh Bloch. Thanks for listening to FrontBurger.