Front Burner - Aid trickles into Gaza, as Israel ramps up airstrikes

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

This weekend, a limited number of aid trucks finally began moving through the Rafah border crossing from Egypt, toward Gaza. Resources are critically low in the region. Today, the CBC’s Margaret Evans, who’s currently in East Jerusalem, on the status of aid there, escalating airstrikes in Gaza and the West Bank, and how tensions are growing in the region. For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Damon Fairless. It's been over two weeks of fighting between Israel and Hamas, and on Saturday, aid trucks finally began moving through the Rafah border crossing from Egypt towards Gaza. Food, fuel, and drinking water are critically low in the besieged territory.

People who are injured continue to pour into Gaza's overwhelmed hospitals as Israel plans to intensify airstrikes in the region. Palestinian officials say over 4,600 people have been killed by the Israeli bombardment of Gaza. According to Israeli authorities, more than 1,400 people have been killed in Israel since the start of the conflict. Today I'm speaking with CBC Senior International Correspondent Margaret Evans. She's going to tell us about the latest developments in the Israel-Hamas conflict and what she's been hearing from the people most affected by it. We reached her in East Jerusalem on Sunday evening. Hey, Margaret, thanks so much for coming on Frontburner.

Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. Okay, so Israel's continuing its quote-unquote complete siege on Gaza, so not letting in any food, water, fuel, electricity from Israel. But what's the status of aid potentially coming in through Egypt? Well, it has let those 20 trucks in carrying just the essentials, and they define that as food, water, and medicine. But of course, as you know, aid agencies have said they need to see

100 trucks coming in every day to assess that need. On one hand, I saw hundreds of trucks steaming with food and other essential supplies. On the other hand, we know that just across the border, there are 2 million people without water, food, fuel, electricity. But the people of Gaza need a commitment for much, much more. Today, on Sunday, there were reports that between 14 and 17 trucks were being allowed in. We know they were being checked. But, you know, as I'm speaking to you, I'm not 100% sure that they've crossed over. And then there was some information as well that 40 might get in tomorrow. Israel is insisting

it wants to make sure that none of this assistance goes to Hamas. And that's why the checks are being taken or undertaken. And it's UN officials that are doing that. They say, look, we've done it before in parts of Syria. We can do it. Fuel is not being allowed in. And that, of course, is one of the big problems for the hospitals and for things like pumping clean water. The Associated Press was carrying a story today about one of the doctors in the Gaza Strip talking about, you know, having to use needles to stitch up secondary wounds and vinegar as disinfectant. So that gives you a sort of a sense of how dire things are. And the International Committee of the Red Cross is also lobbying that doctors might be allowed, you know, relief doctors might be allowed to go in

that crossing from Egypt into Gaza because the doctors who are in the strip are just absolutely exhausted. And when you say that the need for fuel, you mentioned water too, but what's the situation with power in these hospitals and more generally, these have been running on generators, right? That's right. Diesel-operated generators. I think the estimates were that five hospitals were now in really big trouble in terms of not having enough electricity. There were reports of some kind of minor surgeries being done in the dark, that kind of thing. minor surgeries being done in the dark, that kind of thing.

In terms of the number of injuries that they're dealing with, there were some statistics released by UNICEF that, you know, of more than 4,000 Gazans who've been killed, 1,524 of them have been children. 4,000 children have been injured. It gives you the sense of how critical the situation is. And the UN continues to call for an immediate ceasefire. The Secretary General has actually said that Israel is subjecting the Palestinians in Gaza to collective punishment. And it doesn't look like that's going to de-escalate in time. Soon, Israel's been intensifying its strikes on northern Gaza. It's been warning residents that they're going to up that as well. And Israel's ordered about half of Gaza's 2.3 million to evacuate to the south,

which already has an incredibly dense population. So I guess, Margaret, what I'm interested in is, given all that, what's the situation like in southern Gaza as far as you've been able to tell? Pretty darn crowded. As you say, those orders have been given and hundreds of thousands of Gazans have actually taken them seriously. There are not enough shelters to house the sheer number of civilians. And even those who do find spaces in overwhelmed schools turned refugee centers, it is little comfort to the youngest victims. refugee centres, it is little comfort to the youngest victims. There is no one to protect us, this little girl says.

There is no one to come save us. How are we supposed to live? How? Answer me. Israel has been from the get-go adamant that it is going to get rid of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, and that it's going to do that by preparing the way through an aerial campaign, which we've all seen happening, and that the implication is that there would then be a ground invasion to follow. I spoke earlier in the week with a political science professor who normally lives in Gaza City.

His name is Muham Abou Sada. He's 58 years old, and he's moved with his family to the south. He's living in Han Yunis, which is the largest city in southern Gaza. He talked about living conditions, you know, 60 people in the same building and segregating the sexes, you know, for not enough bathrooms, not enough places to sleep. We have been living for 13 days now without electricity, without portable water, without running water. And there have been about five wars between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip. wars between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip. And so you have a lot of people who have been through this before, this kind of aerial bombardment in particular. But he told me that in his lifetime, he hasn't experienced anything like what he's experiencing now.

It's the first time I have seen in my life in Gaza the intensity of the bombing and the carnage that is being left by the Israeli bombardment against civilian areas here in Gaza. He talked about having to calm his daughter who's 17 and had a classmate killed, being frightened by the sound of the airstrikes. And it reminded me of meeting someone years and years ago during an Israeli incursion. And I remember very clearly he was a father, and he told me that he talked about the sense of shame that he had as a father being afraid in front of his children. And it's just a reminder of the psychological impact. We're focusing so much on what are people, where can they get the clean

water? Where can they get food? You know, they've left all their belongings behind. Did they bring their insulin with them? That sort of stuff. But there's like a psychological toll that's being taken to, and that's something Abu Sadr talked about. He also talked about the sense that many Palestinians have conveyed to me that they feel that in the unequivocal and quick support that Western governments gave to Israel for very obvious reasons in the wake of the Hamas attacks of October 7th, that there wasn't anything said or enough said in their point of view about the Palestinians and the potential impact of what was to come on them. He said that he, like many others, felt that there was somehow a green light given to Israel to go in with the ferocity that it has.

It's really compelling to hear you talk about Mokheimer, actually, because he was one of the people we spoke with in the first week of the war. Last week, a rocket hit Al-Lakli Hospital in Gaza, killing hundreds. The missile hit the hospital not long after dark. The building was flattened. Doctors held a press conference standing in the middle of a makeshift mortuary. It is clear scores of people at least were killed. Hamas has blamed Israel.

Israel says it's a misfired rocket from Islamic Jihad. Canada and the US and France all say that they're fairly confident Israel didn't strike the hospital. I was deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion at the hospital in Qazi yesterday. And based on what I've seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you. Regardless, it's highly contentious. It's not clear. What's the conversation happening on the ground right now about that strike? You know, on some levels, I mean, it sounds odd to say it, but it's almost irrelevant. I mean,

the Israeli Defense Forces came out fairly quickly and presented their evidence of what they think happened. And yes, corroborated by intelligence agencies in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada. The Palestinians are very unlikely to believe that. I mean, not just Palestinians, but many people in the Arab world wouldn't believe it. And that's because the level of distrust is so deep. Israel denied shooting dead Palestinian-American photojournalist Shireen Abu Akleh last year, only to backtrack later on admitting they probably did kill her. The other thing is you will have people say, listen, whatever happened in that hospital, you know, this territory, this strip is simply too small.

The Israelis insist that they're not targeting hospitals, that there's no way that you can avoid civilian casualties, that these attacks are simply indiscriminate by nature, especially because we're seeing harder hits, more hits, more strikes than ever before. more strikes than ever before. And you've also seen, you know, half the population pushed to the south of the country told they need to do that to be safe. And yet they're still seeing attacks, you know, strikes in the south. Israeli missiles had destroyed buildings in the southern city of Rafah.

In Gaza's Khan Yunus, this funeral was held for seven family members killed in an airstrike that hit their home at dawn. I lost all my relatives, 15 people, this man says. We were not on the front line or anything. We were just sitting at home. What have we done wrong? And the World Health Organization has said that dozens of health facilities

have actually been hit since October 7th and this campaign began. There was also the strike on Thursday. Israeli defense forces struck a Greek Orthodox church in Gaza City. This was a sanctuary for hundreds of Palestinian Christians and Muslims. But for many, it became a tomb. The historic Greek Orthodox Church of St. Porphyrios in Gaza was hit by Israeli airstrikes overnight. The Israel Defense Forces said the target was a nearby Hamas command center.

The Gazan Health Ministry says that strike killed 16 Christian Palestinians. I understand you've been at some of the religious services. What's it been like? Well, I went this morning to the old city in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre where the Greek Orthodox Church was holding a prayer for the dead. There were actually Christian and Muslim Palestinians sheltering in this church. At the ceremony this morning, I did meet a Greek Orthodox woman. She was actually Greek. She wasn't Palestinian, but she said that the prayer service wasn't just for the victims

of Gaza, but it was for all the victims of this war. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you.

Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Last week, on Thursday, we spoke with a former Israeli negotiator

about the potential then of some of the Hamas hostages being freed. And since then, Hamas has released a couple hostages, two of them out of the 200 or so it says it's been holding. Can you give me a sense who these hostages are? The hostages that were released were a mother and daughter named Judith and Natalie Ranan. that were released were a mother and daughter named Judith and Natalie Ranan. About an hour ago, two American citizens held by Hamas since October 7th were released. These two Americans are now safely in the hands of Israeli authorities in Israel. They were taken from Nahal Oz, which is a kibbutz just along the Gaza border on October 7th. They are American. They were visiting family.

They were there for the birthday of the grandmother. And I should also say that a number of their extended family are still believed to be hostages. Oh, really? Yeah, and missing. The Red Cross was involved in collecting them from Hamas and then transferring them to the border with Israel, the Gazan border with Israel. Hamas issued a statement, one of their spokesmen in Gaza, describing the release as a humanitarian gesture. They thanked the Qatari government.

Hamas has its political wing, some of its leadership have offices in Qatar, and Qatar is often a mediator in these negotiations. Israel, I should say, has said it will not negotiate with Hamas, but that does not mean that other countries or governments are not negotiating, because there are a large number of foreign nationals who are believed to be hostages as well. And before that release happened, Hamas had released a video of a young woman who identified herself as Mia Shem asking to be brought home.

And we too spoke to a former Israeli intelligence officer named Rami Igra who said this is just the beginning of seeing videos like this, that sort of psychological warfare is something that Hamas will try to employ to divide the Israeli people from the Israeli government. It is such an emotional issue in terms of what's the right thing to do in terms of prioritizing the release of hostages, especially as Israel is threatening a ground invasion in a very small territory where hostages are no doubt being kept in, you know, the vast underground maze that's known as the Hamas metro, you know, the tunnels that they have in the Gaza

Strip. They are now talking about releasing more people. And the sole purpose of this is to slow down or stop or defer the Israeli land maneuver into the Gaza Strip. The families of the hostages, many of them have been holding demonstrations, sit-ins outside the Israeli Defense Ministry, saying this has to be a priority. You have to bring them home. Not everybody is united. Some people say, well, the only answer is to go in and get Hamas. There's nothing we can do about it.

Otherwise, this will keep happening. Others are pleading with the Israeli government not to go ahead with the ground war. You know, we did meet a young, a man named Avihai Brodich, who has his wife and his three kids were taken hostage. He started this sit-in in Tel Aviv. He came with his brother, who's actually Canadian. His brother drove him. I decided I had to do something. So this was the best thing I could think of. Come to the Ministry of Defence, you know, where the decisions are being made.

Took a chair with me, sat down with my dog. And Israel's had peace with the neighbouring countries that were once enemies. And I've always, always had that wish. I live in Kfar Aza. And he's since been joined by people. He's not someone who says he wants a war. He's not getting involved in politics. He just said, everybody knows that a child's place is by its parent.

That's all I want. I want my children to come home. There's growing fears that this conflict will broaden beyond Israel and Gaza. Israel launched a strike at a mosque in the West Bank. The IDF says it was being used to organize attacks on Israel and also in Syria. Syria claims that Israel struck airstrips in Aleppo and Damascus. But I guess I want to focus on southern Lebanon. Why has Israel been striking there? Well, Hezbollah is a Shia militia in Lebanon. It's the largest and most powerful in Lebanon, and it supports Hamas. The group has risen from a shadowy faction to a heavily armed force with major sway over the Lebanese state. It has ministers in government and lawmakers in parliament.

And it is in turn supported by Iran. So this is kind of a big geopolitical picture. The attacks on the airports in Syria are related in a sense, too, because that might be Israel trying to impede the transfer of weapons from Iran to its proxies in southern Lebanon, in other words, Hezbollah, to support any offensive or decision by Hezbollah or Iran to try to get involved in the Israeli war on Gaza. Hezbollah has threatened to avenge any invasion of Gaza. Israel and Hezbollah fought a war in 2006. Today, the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu,

was visiting Israeli troops up along the northern border of Israel with Lebanon. They've been evacuating towns and villages along there in anticipation that Hezbollah might get involved. And Hezbollah is a much more powerful enemy than Hamas. It has a huge arsenal of weapons. It has precision guided weapons. It has a huge arsenal of weapons. It has precision guided weapons. But Netanyahu, in his meetings with Israeli soldiers, said this is a do or die situation. And he issued a warning to Lebanon saying, you'll miss the 2006 war.

We'll bring much more upon you. In that 2006 war, Israel attacked targets in southern Lebanon, but it also hit roads and bridges across the country. It hit the Beirut airport, the Israeli warships off the coast of Beirut, shelling Shia neighborhoods and Hezbollah strongholds that would take this conflict to a whole other level. Israel bombarded Lebanon from air, land and sea. A million people were forced to flee their homes. Over the course of the war, more than 1,000 Lebanese civilians were killed and 3,000 wounded. Meanwhile, we've been seeing for over a week now, I guess, that Israel's prepping for this ground invasion, right? A huge amassment of tanks and armored vehicles.

It seems imminent. Does that still seem like the case from what you're saying? They said from the beginning that it was going to happen and it was going to happen quickly. But I do think that the angst and the differences of opinion about the hostages and the potential impact will definitely is a complicating factor for the Israeli defense forces. So people are on tenterhooks in Gaza too. In the long run, some Palestinians will tell you that their fear is that the pressure on them might be such that Egypt will be forced to open its Rafah crossing,

and that they'll basically be forced out never to return. That's certainly not something that Egypt is going to want to take on. But beyond the Israel destroys Hamas part of the Israeli scenario, what happens to Gaza afterwards is a really big question mark. You also, I was reading the piece you published over the weekend, you spoke with an Israeli Canadian reservist who's now getting ready for the offensive. Can you tell me about how he was feeling about the prospect of fighting in Gaza? Yeah, it was a Canadian Israeli born in Calgary. His name is Noy Leib, and he was trepidatious, I would say, but like many Israelis said that this is, that Hamas has crossed a line with the nature of the atrocities of the attacks on October 7th, and that he felt, he said he wasn't going to take, didn't want to take his uniform off until Hamas had been removed from the Gaza Strip. So my personal opinion is that we have to attack, we have to be strong,

we have to try and of course ensure that every civilian life, every innocent Israeli-Palestinian is saved, but we can't just have someone threatening us and shooting at us and not do anything. is saved, but we can't just have someone threatening us and shooting at us and not do anything. The reservists are a big part of Israel's psyche, of its notion of defense, and 360,000 reservists have been called up. A few thousand of them will have been abroad and came back to be in this. They see it. They do see it as existential for their country. They do see it as a duty that they've prepared for. Leib came back every year to do his service. There was no doubt in his mind.

He said that he believes that the Israeli Defense Forces do do everything that they can to avoid harming civilians. But he said that if civilians are hurt, that that is down to Hamas, not to Israel. All right, Margaret, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much for your time. Since we spoke with Margaret, the UN confirmed that an additional 14 aid trucks entered the Rafah crossing from Egypt. According to Israeli authorities who inspect those trucks before they enter Gaza, the shipments include water, food, and medical supplies. That's all for now. I'm Damon Fairless.

Thanks for listening to FrontBurner, and I'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.