Front Burner - “All the talent in the world”: Remembering Chadwick Boseman

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

Fans are grieving the loss of actor Chadwick Boseman, best known as the star of the groundbreaking blockbuster Black Panther. Boseman died on Friday, at the age of 43. According to his family, he was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer in 2016. Boseman never spoke about that publicly, and the knowledge now of the diagnosis is giving new meaning to his work. Today on Front Burner, Rolling Stone senior writer Jamil Smith on Chadwick Boseman’s legacy.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Didn't life start right here on this continent? So ain't all people your people? I am not king of all people.

I am king of Wakanda. And it is my responsibility to make sure our people are safe and that vibranium does not fall into the hands of a person like you. In 2018, Chadwick Boseman brought King T'Challa to life in Black Panther, a movie that became a cultural phenomenon. For so many Black moviegoers especially, T'Challa was more than just a fictional superhero. He was a symbol of pride and hope.

We knew not that we would be around during awards season and that it would make a billion dollars, but we knew that we had something special that we wanted to give the world, that we could be full human beings in the roles that we wanted to give the world, that we could be full human beings in the roles that we were playing, that we could create a world that exemplified a world that we wanted to see. Chadwick Boseman died on Friday.

He was 43 years old. According to his family, he was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2016. years old. According to his family, he was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2016. Fans expressed their shock and grief on social media all weekend, and the tributes are still pouring in. Today, we remember Chadwick Boseman with Rolling Stone senior writer Jamil Smith. In 2018, Jamil wrote a cover story for Time magazine titled The Revolutionary Power of Black Panther. I'm Josh Bloch. This is Frumper. Hello, Jamil. Hello. I was hoping we could start with the role that Chadwick Boseman is best known for, for the superhero Black Panther, also known as King T'Challa. I don't care that you brought Klaue.

Only reason I don't care how you stand is because I know who you are. Tell me about your experience of watching that movie for the first time with Boseman as its star. So I went to the premiere here in Los Angeles. And, you know, when you get an invitation for a Hollywood premiere that says royal attire requested, you know you're in for a different kind of experience. you're in for a different kind of experience. I think that seeing all of these wonderful people come through that line on that red carpet, even before the movie started,

with, you know, their kente cloths and their boo-boos and their hairdresses, all kinds of different things, just really celebrating Blackness. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it, to be perfectly honest. And then, the movie started.

And the I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it, to be perfectly honest. And then the movie started. Right. And the movie was a success pretty much on every level. I think that the film represents, for us in the African diaspora, a fictional representation of what it could be like for Black people in this world without the the hammer of colonialism put upon us and what africa's potential could be without the uh scourge of of frankly capitalistic empire you know obviously it's it's a fantasy i mean you know there are no magic meteors going to crash into our our lands to give us all the riches and and power we would need. But the key with Black Panther and that myth is that it's not merely that the meteor of vibranium crashes into the country of Wakanda, it is the fact that the people are brilliant enough to maximize the potential of it.

And that to me speaks to a belief in the inherent greatness of our people and what we could be if, in fact, we were not enslaved, slaughtered and otherwise oppressed. Wakanda is advanced. They're ahead of the rest of the world because because they haven't colonization and slavery enslaves everybody. It doesn't just enslave the African. It enslaves everybody. Everybody is bound by the limitations of those systems. How did you see the film resonate with African-American communities after that premiere?

Oh, my goodness. Seeing people walk out of the theater doing the Wakandan X across the arms salute. Honestly, it's become in a way a replacement for the handshake in this COVID era. Right. I've seen a number of people doing it. Just the joy on people's faces

of all colors and creeds as they came out of that theater it was it was really palpable and frankly i haven't seen too many films do that in the way in which black panther accomplished it i mean i just remember the visceral reaction amongst even celebrities you know afterwards after that film ended uh people were just on fire. It was really, really an event for this business and for, I think, the world at large, as we've seen. Not merely by the profits, but also by its cultural impact. What is the message to the world with Black Panther? I think the message is that it works to have a black cast.

That it works. It works that our stories can resonate not just in this country but throughout the world. Was Chadwick there that night? Yes, yes. All of the stars were there. yes yes all of the stars were there and about two days later is when i sat down with both chadwick and uh the director ryan coogler for a good thorough and open conversation about the film and its uh potential impact on the world and tell me about chadwick boseman how you experienced him in an interview uh he he was a consummate professional.

I was essentially the last interview on the junket line, and I found him to be a quiet but gentle and kind person. And again, professional through and through. He had to be tired. It was a long day. And now that we understand what he was going through at the time, I think it's really important that we, in a way,

recontextualize his work. This is a man who played not merely this African superhero, but also played superheroes of a different kind in a way. I mean, this is a guy who portrayed Jackie Robinson. A different kind in a way. I mean, this is a guy who portrayed Jackie Robinson. A black man in white baseball.

Can you imagine the reaction? The vitriol? You want a player who doesn't have the guts to fight back? No. I want a player who's got the guts not to fight back. This is a man who portrayed Thurgood Marshall, you know, and for many, you know, who love his music, James Brown is certainly a superhero. He portrayed him as well.

Y'all cats might not own my records. But you can bet your bottom dollar every record you got got a piece of me in. And you're talking about a man who managed to do all of that on film, plus play Black Panther with all of the physical requirements of that role. It's really, really an amazing career and an amazing use of the 43 years that he had on this earth. I think the biggest shame that we suffer not get a chance to see him maximize uh the incredible potential that he had to become uh the actor that he was destined to become and i am sad for him because of the some of the things that he and i spoke of during our conversation two years ago he wanted to see

how this film was going to affect hollywood and how it's going to change Hollywood and change perspectives. And obviously, I think he saw a degree of that happening. But I really do think that the impact of that film and his portrayal are going to go much further into the future than perhaps people understand. much further into the future than perhaps people understand. And I think that my hope is that somehow, in some way, he is able to see it from, as they say in the film,

the ancestral plane. We know what it's like to be told, to say there's not a screen for you to be featured on, a stage for you to be featured on. We know what it's like to be the tail and not the head. We know what it's like to be beneath and not above. And that is what we went to work with

every day because we knew that we had something special. Yeah, I mean, I was really surprised to learn just how much of a secret his diagnosis was. I mean, he received it in 2016. I saw that Spike Lee, who directed him into Five Bloods, which filmed in 2019, said he had no idea that Chadwick Boseman had colon cancer. It is amazing to think about all the work he was doing, as you say, with the knowledge that his time on this earth might have been limited. Yeah.

You see essentially a man who is really unafraid to embrace not merely the challenge that presented him with regard to his health, but also the responsibility of his celebrity. And he used that not merely to portray this amazing role that we all loved, but also to go and speak with children who were sick in hospitals. There's a really moving video that has been shared a lot this weekend of him talking about how humbling it was for him to connect with children who had terminal cancer. Throughout our filming, I was communicating with them, knowing that they were both terminal. And what they said to me is, and their parents said, they just, they're trying to hold on till this movie comes. These kids were so excited for the movie to come out,

but tragically, they didn't live to see its release. And when I found out that they... Yeah, it means a lot. And I mean, that's such an emotional thing for any actor, I mean, any person, to tell that story about connecting with these kids who really want to see this film. But to watch that interview now with the understanding that he himself was dealing with cancer is really moving. Yes. Yes, it is. It's a humbling experience because you're like, this can't mean that much to them, you know.

But seeing how the world has taken us on seeing how the movement is how it's taking on a life of its own i realized that they anticipated something great and it is astonishing uh really to think about the weight that that must have been on his shoulders as he was undergoing you know treatment surgeries you know and having to train in capoeira karate kung fu all these different martial arts that he trained in in order to perform that role it's it's really staggering to be perfectly honest that how he was able to build his body and still manage these treatments and maintain his privacy, to handle it with as much grace and to maintain and focus on his gift, on exhibiting his gift. It really makes what was already a pretty staggering Hollywood career fairly legendary, I believe. And we're going to see children, I know, who are mourning the loss

of their hero. And I've talked to friends who have children who are having a tough time with this. To me, this is reminiscent of when Christopher Reeve was paralyzed. And seeing Superman become a quadriplegic was staggering for a lot of us. And now we have seen the Black Panther pass away much too early and much incredibly suddenly. help their children understand that this was a complete individual and help them gain a little bit of context about the kind of man that Chadwick Boseman was. I mean, this was not merely just a person who portrayed a hero, but also someone who I saw here in Los Angeles lending his time to protests against this administration's immigration policies. That is someone who is politically involved. And to me, I think it only enhances my estimation of his character. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem.

Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to,

50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Well, I want to talk a bit more about who Chadwick Boseman was. I understand that he was drawn to the arts through a tragedy

that a teammate on his high school basketball team was shot and killed, and Boseman decided that he would write a play about it. Tell me briefly about his journey from writing plays as a high school student to becoming this Hollywood star. Well, you have here a young man who's at Howard, training in directing, by the way, and gets a chance to go to Oxford to study acting. And the person who puts the bill, his benefactor was Denzel Washington. Imagine receiving the letter that your tuition for that summer was paid for and that your benefactor was none other than the dopest actor on the planet. was none other than the dopest actor on the planet.

So I see Chadwick in a lot of ways to being a successor to the legacies of the Morgan Freemans and the Denzel Washingtons of our business. And they of course were successors to Sidney Poitier and Paul Robeson. There is no Black Panther without Denzel Washington. And not just because of me, but my whole cast, that generation, stands on your shoulders. The daily battles won, the thousand territories gained.

Chadwick, to me, was right along in that lineage. His talent was that great. He was versatile. He could do action. He could do meaningful, thoughtful drama. He was funny. This is somebody who had it all. He had all the talent in the world, and he had been, as you mentioned, introduced to this life of storytelling through tragedy, as so many people are. I really do feel that we've lost not merely this person who portrayed a hero that we all love, but we've lost really one of the in our lives. And that's part of what I wanted to write about in time two years ago. It's meaningful for us to have these kinds of stories told. And that means we should indeed honor the storytellers. Seeing this movie made me realize that our stories need to be told.

As the mother of a young son, my son's childhood has been defined by Barack Obama and now Black Panther, so thank you. When you made your big scene, when you came out, I shed a tear. It was a big deal for me. I just want to say thank you so much for showing us that there are avenues for us. them with such a rich complexity, considering what large figures they are in people's minds. What do you think is behind that talent? That's an interesting question. I do think that, as we've mentioned, there's a lot of pain and strife behind that talent. We see people enduring things that are hard to comprehend for a lot of us, but yet still are universal.

We all experience loss at some level. We all experience tragedy. However, I do think that, you know, there is a constant barrage of that when you grow up black in America. when you grow up black in America, and when you see someone like Chadwick taking that tragedy and manifesting it, not merely into a piece of art, but also finding his passion in storytelling, it only is a testament to how much more investment we need to be making in these young budding geniuses who might be out here experiencing and going through tragedy and yet are stuck in situations where hope is hard to come by when the kids broke out dancing when they found out that they were being taken to

see black panther you guys got to see this video take a look What does that do to you? Oh, man, that's why you do this. That's the reason why you, for me, it's one of the reasons why I get up in the morning and I do what I do. There's just been a remarkable outpouring of grief this weekend. So many people sharing their favorite moments from Chadwick Boseman's career. What has stood out to you about the response to his death? What has stood out to me is that people universally

re-describe him in the same kinds of ways, the people who knew him, as gentle, intelligent, a good friend. It is always painful, in my opinion, to learn about the greatness of a person after they're gone, because we've missed out on getting to know them. And yet there is a wonderful grace in the grief of people expressing their love for a person and how that person impacted their lives. So we get to know a little bit more about Chadwick Boseman, even in his absence. And that has been an unintended gift, I would say, of this tragic event. I wonder if you feel like the loss is being felt more profoundly because it's happening in the midst of a lot of grief and a lot of protest around racial injustice right now. And here you have someone who portrayed a Black superhero. This year has been a sucker punch in so many different ways. You have black

people dying disproportionately from COVID. You have police violence continuing despite global pleas for reform and rethinking the role of law enforcement in our society. of law enforcement in our society. And seeing this happen, right, in the wake of what happened to Jacob Blake and Trey Pellerin and too many other names to name, I think it really does hit in a different way because this is a year in which our communities have experienced so much tragedy

and so much loss already. We sit in a country where the president feels free to denigrate us and to patronize us. And then we see death strike our fictional hero. We've already seen so many heroes that will, that people will never know pass away this year. And to see death strike one of our heroes, you know, Black Panther, for us, I can speak for myself and I feel like a number of other people, Black Panther was an escape this year. I would turn it on just to see this wonderful scene when he emerges from the ship before he's about to be made king early in the film. And you see this amazing scene of

all these beautiful Black people on the side of this mountain. It swells my heart every time. I remember the very first time I saw it in that Kodak Theater, and I remember the very first time I saw it in that Kodak theater, and I remember how I feel every single time I see it. There's a swell of pride. There's a swell of joy just knowing that you're seeing a multifaceted black story being told on film. And to me, it doesn't spoil the movie. It certainly makes it a bit more mournful. But my hope is that Marvel will find a way to continue the character and find ways to move forward and continue to inspire people with Black Panther.

Jamil Smith, thank you so much for speaking with me today. It was my pleasure. Thank you. That's all for today. I'm Josh Bloch. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.