Front Burner - An inside look at white supremacist group The Base

Episode Date: January 24, 2020

Last week, former reservist Patrik Mathews was arrested by the FBI on firearms-related charges. Front Burner first covered his story last summer, when he was being investigated by law enforcement for suspected ties to a militant white supremacist group called The Base. After a raid by the RCMP, Mathews disappeared. Because of his arrest, we have access to a trove of court documents from the FBI's investigation of Mathews. Today on Front Burner, we talk to Vice national security correspondent Ben Makuch about what we've learned from these documents, and what they might say about efforts to stop the growth of white supremacist groups.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Pozzo. So last week, former Manitoba reservist Patrick Matthews was arrested by the FBI on some gun-related charges. You might remember, this was the guy who was outed this summer as an alleged member and recruiter for the white supremacist group The Base. After that, the RCMP searched his house and confiscated a number of his guns.

SWAT team just pulled up to a house across the street from me. It was widely believed that after that he fled to the United States. Well, a trove of court documents from that FBI case now tells the story of what law enforcement alleges Matthews has been up to all these months. Agents say Matthews and other alleged members of the base have spent time at a weapons training camp in Georgia. Today, Vice Reporter Ben McCoo is back, and we're going to talk about Patrick Matthews, the base, and what the investigation tells him about efforts to stop the growth of white supremacist groups. This is Frontburner. Hi Ben, welcome back. Hi, thanks for. Welcome back. Hi. Thanks for having me back.

So when we spoke a while back, you had reported that Patrick Matthews was being harbored by the base after allegedly fleeing to the U.S. at the end of August. And at the time, we didn't have a ton of details. We knew that Matthews had gone missing after the RCMP searched his house. We knew his truck was found abandoned in Piney, Manitoba, near the Manitoba-Minnesota border. And now we have this FBI investigation. And so what does the FBI say happened after Matthews dumps his truck? So what we found out through that FBI document was that William Bilbrow and Brian Mark Lemley, I know him to be Mark Lemley, two members of the base, went and met up with Matthews in Michigan. And they then took Matthews to Maryland.

Okay. And they drove, I think, I believe the 13 hours back. Right. And so what did they do when they got to Maryland? In Maryland, they dropped off Bilbrow and then Lemley and Matthews went to Chincoteague. It's a small island. And they essentially lived together for a certain amount of time. And Bilbro went back to his home in Maryland. And then following that, Lemley and Matthews went to Georgia. And that's when Matthews stayed in Georgia for, I believe, a few months. And during that time, we also know, and it's something we noted in our reporting,

that Matthews participated in something called a hate camp or a paramilitary training with the base, which we now know also featured an undercover FBI agent. And so tell me a bit more about this training camp. This was in October, I believe, according to the FBI. It was in late October they left for the camp, and I believe the camp actually happened early November. But this is something that's become sort of symptomatic of these more domestic hate terror groups with neo-Nazi affiliations. Something called the Adam Waffen Division, which is another domestic terror group, started doing these where essentially a bunch of members would show up in a remote location, affiliations. Something called the Adam Woffin Division, which is another domestic terror group,

started doing these where essentially a bunch of members would show up in a remote location and they would shoot their weapons and they would perform these paramilitary tactics. Now, it's very much the same for the base. And what we do know is that Matthews participated in these trainings and, of course, also using some of his military training, helped other members of the base with his expertise. They also, something else we know, we knew at the time as well, they sacrificed a goat. They sacrificed a goat? Yes. At this hay camp in Georgia?

Yes. And it's, you know, this is something that, you know, hasn't been widely reported, but this this is a it's a satanic ritual now something like adam woffin division has been connected to this sect of of satanism known as o9a and sacrificing a goat was part of that and it we believe that there was some element of this o9a inside of the base as well and that's why they sacrificed this goat. There is this meetup in Georgia, and then these guys, Lemley and Matthews, go back to Delaware, where Lemley rents an apartment where they both live. Yeah, in Newark, Delaware. And they live there for a little while and it kind of goes a little bit, they go a little quiet. But, you know, following some reporting that we did where we broke the news that Matthews had crossed the border with the help of the base and then was being harbored by the base. Following that, because of this FBI document that

was just released, that the FBI then bugged the apartment. They did this thing called sneak and peek. And this is, I believe our story was on December 8th and then December 13th, the FBI then bugged the apartment. They did this thing called sneak and peek. And this is, I believe our story was on December 8th. And then December 13th, the FBI then infiltrated the apartment, unbeknownst to both Lemley and Matthews, and bugged it. Right. I was rifling through these documents this morning. And when they go in for the sneak and peek, they find videos of Patrick Matthew on his computer,

sort of talking about his journey into the U.S. And and he's wearing like a gas mask and he's talking about a violent revolution, derail some effing trains, kill some people and poison some water supplies. You better be effing ready to do those things. That's a quote from that video that they find when they sort of sneak into this apartment. He reportedly says the time for talk has ended. If you think politics is a solution, you are a damn fool. Yeah, and this is something that Mac Lamoureux and I have been reporting for a really long time, is that the base has been very interested in doing these sort of accelerationist attacks on critical infrastructure. So the police bug the apartment after the sneak and peek. And tell me what they find when they bug the apartment. Well, I mean, for one, there was a

lot of discussions surrounding a Virginia gun rally that happened last Monday. Right. And what are they talking about? They're essentially saying that they want to go to this thing and they don't want to. I believe the term was or the way they put it was to go and it can't be wasted. This moment can't be wasted. They essentially wanted to go and open fire on a crowd to set off a skirmish or chaos within this protest, because obviously these protesters will be heavily armed between the protesters and the police. would be heavily armed between the protesters and the police. And they believe that that was the fodder for a civil war,

for a real action for an insurgency to begin. Okay, and this is a rally that took place earlier this week. People were protesting some modest gun reforms in Virginia, but no violence actually happened. These guys were arrested beforehand. They were arrested beforehand, but that was something, I mean, I can tell you that I was initially going to be going to this rally, which I did attend and I reported on. I was initially going to go because I'd caught wind that base members were going to be there. Last week when I saw the FBI arrest so many of its members, it was pretty shocking. And also, you know, it was a case of

the FBI had clearly been onto this and they really did consider this a serious threat. And I think, you know, they did, they did their job right because it seemed, you know, according to this document that the level of blood lust that Matthews in particular had had, you know, they created, they also created while they were there, they created an AR-15 that was, you know, they created, they also created while they were there, they created an AR-15 that was, you know, it had no tracking number. It was created on their own. Right. This is something that the FBI picked up because they bugged the apartment. These guys had made their own AR-15. Absolutely. They had done that. And that's, you know, this is a, you know, it's a scary, it's a scary thing. And they also amassed, I think, something to the effect of 1,500 rounds.

Wow. We should say both of these guys, Lemley and Matthews, have been charged with firearm offenses, essentially, intent to commit a felony. Also, Matthews was charged essentially with being in the United States illegally and in possession of an illegal firearm. Yes, exactly. And, you know, that's mostly because, you know, when it comes to domestic terrorism charges, it's tough. It's really hard for authorities to get individuals on them because there's very strict laws on what's a terror group and what isn't. Right.

But in this case, like in years past, they try to get individuals on weapons charges or the charges that Matthews received. Okay. And Matthews had a bail hearing earlier this week and he was denied bail. Yes. And the judge said that this group was very dangerous. And I think that that's, you know, that's a very strong indictment of this group that I've been reporting on with Mack Lemmer for years now. From the very get-go, this group was discussing exchanging bomb-making manuals, weapons of mass destruction manuals, gun manuals, etc. to, you know, discussing also how to make improvised explosive devices.

This was a serious group with a bunch of true believers. And before we move on, I just want to mention that these charges have not been proven in a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Has this investigation taught you anything new about the base? We knew a lot of what was going on. What I can say is that the group always believed that if they're going to

carry out terror attacks and to create a true insurgency, much akin to the IRAs, which they always sort of emulated, was to get away with it and to not be busted up. It makes me think when I was rifling through the court documents, you know, according to the FBI, when they were picking up the conversations between Lemley and Matthews, you know, these guys were literally talking about hunting people with a sniper rifle and, you know, how to get away afterwards. They were talking about being on like the outskirts of the rally so that they could, you know, covertly get in if things got real. Yes, absolutely. I mean, they were thinking about this, right? They weren't just, it wasn't sort of your garden variety lone wolf. They were planning things in much the same way you'd see something like ISIS or al-Qaeda do an attack. I have reported

on ISIS and al-Qaeda very intimately and very thoroughly, and this group really started to resemble them in many ways. Right. You see tons of parallels here. These were people who really believed the ideology, right? This is their worldview. And I think that that's something that you see. You see in Al-Qaeda, you've seen it in ISIS. You know, once you get a sort of this petri dish of militants together, and they could start out not particularly planning any attacks, but when day in, day out, they're logging into a chat network and they're discussing their anger and hatred towards people of color and Jews. And then they start to discuss direct action or they start to discuss getting together and training for this inevitable race war. It's really, I mean, it's been my experience reporting on these types of groups and, of course, Al-Qaeda and ISIS, that it's only a matter of time until some of these groups then try to carry something out.

So we talked about this sort of Maryland-Delaware cell, Patrick Matthews, Lemley and Bilbrow, this group, but there was another group arrested as well. Tensions are running high in Virginia after the arrests Friday of four more suspected neo-Nazis connected to what authorities call a white supremacist group. They were also part of the base. They were allegedly talking about murdering a couple who were members of Antifa. Tell me a little bit more about what we know about them. members of Antifa. Tell me a little bit more about what we know about them. This Georgia cell in particular, they were caught plotting an assassination against two Antifa members. And they were very much, it sounds like they were very intent on carrying it out.

Now, unlucky for them, they had an FBI agent undercover that was part of the plot. And it was thwarted. But i think this is this is also just i think that particular i mean both these cases show just how serious this group is they planned an assassination of two antifa members and it was all to make sure that anti-fascists knew that if you're going to dox neo-Nazi members of the group The Base or others, you're going to pay for it. Yeah. You're going to pay for it violently.

These guys that were arrested in Georgia, is there overlap here between the two cells, between Patrick Matthews and his group? Do they know each other? They did. Patrick Matthews actually spent time in Georgia, and then he left. He went back to Maryland or Delaware. For that hate camp that we talked about for that hate camp and and there was a time where patrick matthews is aware of this

plot and in that in that particular affidavit that was filed last friday you see that that georgia cell was actually had considered killing patrick matthews and lemley for being what they considered incompetent or yeah they had because for being what they considered incompetent. What? Yeah, they had. Because they thought that they were... Incompetent and possibly going to out them. Huh. Wow. So this was a very, I mean, this is a very violent group. And, you know, I am, I look at it now and I'm thinking the FBI did a very good job in thwarting these guys from going to that rally in Virginia

and also preventing two individuals from being murdered. You know, the other thing I keep telling people is that, you know, that's not all of the members of the base. There's more out there. Tell me a little bit more about that. Has anybody in the base, I know you have some pretty incredible sources here, are they reacting to these arrests? What about their leader? Well, publicly we know the leader on one of their

closed encrypted networks for propaganda that they use, the leader made a statement. And he sounded very defiant, in fact, that this was going to continue and that they consider these arrests a witch hunt. I remember sort of after Charlottesville in 2017 and then after the Tree of Life synagogues shooting in Pittsburgh, there was a ton of criticism directed towards law enforcement for not taking these white nationalist groups seriously enough. We've also seen this criticism in Canada. And sort of in addition to what we're seeing with the base right now, Christopher Cantwell, who some people will remember as the crying Nazi from that Vice documentary that came out of Charlottesville. Law abiding. OK, that was the whole entire point of this. And I'm watching CNN talk about this as violent white nationalist protests. We have done everything in our power to keep this peaceful. He's just been charged for sending electronic threats.

And, you know, all of this taken together, what does it tell you about the priorities in law enforcement? Has some sort of switch been flipped here? Yes, I can tell you that even from my own sourcing that I know the FBI has been taking this very seriously. I think they have for probably the last year, really earnestly in that they are worried. I know that they're really worried about 2020, that they think the presidential election has the potential to become a real problem domestic terrorism wise.

And I think, you know, from my own reporting and knowing about this movement and it's the ecosystem, it's a real thing. You have a lot of these guys discussing 2020 being a moment that they could use to create this, again, this accelerationist moment for a schism, for violence, to create a civil war, to create a problem. And I think when you look at some of the discussions that these groups have, they're wondering, you know, well, if Donald Trump is defeated, will he peaceably give up the presidency? Will, if the Democrats lose, what are the Democrats going to do?

Or if the Democrats win, what will the right do? And I think that they believe that this is a real opportunity. And I think the FBI is aware of that. Jeez, Ben, that is a terrifying note to end this conversation on. But thank you so much for coming back on the podcast and for all of your work on this. And I have a feeling we'll be talking to you again soon. Yeah, absolutely. And always nice to come on Frontburner. Frontburner comes to you from CBC News and CBC Podcasts.

The show is produced by Mark Apollonio, Imogen Burchard, Elaine Chao, Shannon Higgins, and Pete Evans. Derek Vanderwyk does our sound design along with Matt Cameron. Our music is by Joseph Shabison of Boombox Sound. The executive producer of FrontBurner is Nick McKay-Blocos and I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. Have a wonderful weekend and talk to you on Monday.