Front Burner - Anti-mask conspiracy movement thriving in Quebec

Episode Date: September 28, 2020

Across Quebec, a COVID-19 conspiracy movement with ties to the far right is gaining ground — even as new cases continue to skyrocket. Today, CBC Montreal digital reporter Jonathan Montpetit joins us to talk about what has caused this conspiracy movement to thrive in the province, and what it could mean for Quebec’s fight against COVID-19.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. A few weekends ago, a huge march took place in downtown Montreal. CBC! CBC! CBC! A few weekends ago, a huge march took place in downtown Montreal. Thousands of people who held very different beliefs showed up.

There were Hare Krishnas, Christian fundamentalists, Trump supporters. And they were all united to protest one thing, Quebec's rules around wearing masks. Large QAnon flags were raised. Some held up signs criticizing 5G networks in the United Nations. And speakers accused the provincial government of overreacting to the COVID-19 pandemic. All humanity is in danger. If we obey, if we blindly obey, they want to make us their slaves. This was just one of several protests of this kind,

which have been popping up across the country as well. Today, the rise of COVID conspiracy theories in Quebec and what they could mean as cases spike in the province. I'm Josh Bloch. This is FrontBurner. My guest today is CBC Montreal digital reporter Jonathan Mompiti. He's been following this story closely. Hello, Jonathan. Hi, Josh. So there's been these anti-mask protests across the country.

There was actually one in downtown Toronto that was held on Saturday. But in Quebec, there's been these huge ones with thousands of people in attendance. And I understand that you attended the last big one. Can you describe just what exactly these protests look like? The one that I went to in Montreal was quite large. I was kind of surprised by how big it was. Somewhere in between 1,000 and 5,000. big it was, you know, somewhere in between 1,000 and 5,000.

What really struck me was the amount of QAnon slogans and flags and T-shirts and, you know, signs that people were sporting at the demonstration. And I think I was aware of QAnon and that it had achieved some kind of penetration in Quebec society, but I didn't realize to what extent people were so open with their belief about this conspiracy theory. And I think that is one thing that really struck me about that demonstration. And just for listeners who haven't heard of QAnon, I mean, QAnon is this far-right conspiracy theory that claims, amongst a bunch of other things, that Donald Trump is fighting to stop an international cabal of Satan-worshipping pedophiles, which includes people like Hillary Clinton and Barack

Obama and George Soros. Of course, there's absolutely no evidence to support any of this. But I was also struck watching the videos about, as you mentioned, the range of placards. So you have people holding pro-Trump signs. There's people holding signs that say things like, better to die free than to live without freedom. You can stick your poison vaccines up your ass. You can stick your poison vaccines up your ass! You can stick your poison vaccines up your ass! You know Agent Smith?

The Matrix? Yes. Once in a... Like, you got to recognize that Smith is everywhere, Sauron's eyes and ears are everywhere, and Big Brother is watching you. And I also saw that some people are kind of co-opting the language of the pro-choice movement.

So you have signs that say, my body, my choice. We have never been anti-mask. We are pro-choice. I mean, that's exactly right. When I asked these two really young people why they were taking part in the anti-mask movement, and then they corrected me and said, well, we prefer the term pro-choice. And, I mean, the other element of appropriation here is just freedom, liberty. And so I think it's quite interesting to see them kind of attach on to principles and values that are much more widely accepted

to try to get across what is essentially a pretty marginal point of view. We also need to recognize that there's new laws that are going to be imposed upon everybody. And we need to recognize that they're not being brought in with right legislative. What have you discovered about who else is at these protests? I mean, what are the main groups within the anti-mask or the anti-lockdown movement?

OK, so I'll kind of give you a quick overview. So one, you have people who have their organizing experience from their participation in far right groups. So that kind of is one strand. You have people who follow conspiracy theorists and people who promote conspiracy theories online that's another strand is there going to be a massive vaccination again yesterday in the media they were saying the the you know what bill gates bought uh the major part of the cn right now this is a train these are our trains uh you have um evangelical christian groups who uh who are also very kind of vocal supporters of the movement. And I think finally you have people who I guess you could qualify them as more libertarian who don't really espouse the conspiracy element dimension as much

but are kind of focused more on what they feel as excessive government control in their lives with all these public health measures. And they're kind of associated especially with a radio station that's popular in the Quebec City area. Yeah, I saw that there was a poll conducted in August for Montreal's La Presse newspaper, and it found that 35% of the population believes that mainstream media outlets are spreading false information about COVID-19. mainstream media outlets are spreading false information about COVID-19. They're corrupted. They don't tell truth. A lot of people are aware about that. I'm sorry to tell you that you're a journalist, but this is what I believe.

And that 18% believe the pandemic is a tool created by governments to control them. I mean, I was really struck by just how widespread that belief is. Yeah, there was actually a political scientist who was remarking on that. So if you round up the figure to about 20%, he was pointing out that's more support than some bonafide political parties getting in Quebec. So it just kind of goes to show how widely conspiracy theories have penetrated Quebec society. And I mean, I would point out, you know, that the 20% figure is about what you see in the rest of Canada as well.

These Calgarians say they don't want their city to be the next to make masks mandatory. I believe in choice. And if I choose not to, that's my decision. I don't believe there's scientific evidence to prove that they're as effective as people are being led to believe they are. I want to dig in a bit further into this connection to the far-right movement in Quebec. And I think before we do that, I want to get a better sense of what that movement is. I mean, how would you characterize the far-right movement in Quebec and their central beliefs?

I think the far-right movement in Quebec is really centered around Islamophobia. It's really kind of obsessed with Islam. Another strong dimension is about borders, the idea of strong borders, particularly because of Roxham Road, where you did have asylum seekers crossing irregularly into Canada. That was kind of taken up as a cause that was very important to the fire in Quebec. And they used those two issues to attain a certain amount of popularity about three, four years ago. diminished in their visibility in the province, possibly because the kind of center-right government has delivered on a promise of passing a secularism legislation.

Quebec passed its controversial Bill 21. That bill prevents public servants from wearing any religious symbols like Muslim head coverings and Sikh turbans. The vast majority of Quebecers, they want that the religious signs be forbidden for certain groups of employees. And that's what I'm doing. So that kind of took care of one of their key demands. And so what you've seen is a lot of these firebreak groups fragment, and then some of the leaders leave the groups and get more heavily involved in the anti-mask movement.

I mean, it seems like there's also this very strong kind of anti-establishment sentiment and a skepticism around globalization and what that might mean in terms of preserving Quebec culture. Is that correct? I think so. And I think that's actually one of the really interesting ways that the QAnon conspiracy resonates here in Quebec. And so, you know, I think a lot of people are wondering, well, you know, why would a conspiracy theory that is essentially about American politics, why would it resonate here? Donald Trump is waging war against globalization, against this kind of global elite and restoring power to the nation state. And I think that part of the QAnon argument is one of the things that you see gets picked up and circulated here in Quebec by supporters of the movement, this idea that the nation

state will be strong again and that the globalization is working to undermine local culture. If you can kind of see the nationalist dimension within QAnon, that's one of the things that gets picked up here in Quebec. Huh, that's really interesting. I mean, I understand that a key player in the conspiracy theorist dimension of the anti-mask movement and bringing QAnon really to Quebec is a broadcaster named Alexis Cossette-Trudel. Good evening everyone, welcome to the Radio-Québec web journal, second edition of the 25th of September.

Who has been affiliated with Quebec's far right. On social media, he goes by the name Radio-Québec. Tell me more about him. So he is the son of two convicted FLQ terrorists. Jacques and Louise Cosette Trudel pleaded guilty today to charges of kidnapping, conspiracy and forcible detention in the 1970 kidnapping of British diplomat James Cross. Admitting everything. They had been terrorists, but they were not heroes. Their terrorism had been a monumental mistake. They were errant Canadians who wanted to be forgiven. He was born in exile. His parents were given safe passage out of the country.

So he was born in exile. His parents were ultimately allowed to return to Quebec. He got his kind of first taste of politics as the leader of the youth wing of the Parti Québécois. He was leader of the youth wing of the Parti Québécois. He was leader of the youth wing of the Parti Québécois, very briefly. And then he reemerges five years ago, like you mentioned, doing a lot of work with far-right media channels, espousing Islamophobic theories over racism.

And then he kind of breaks away from those those far-right media channels has found his own media channel a radio quebec uh and he begins uh i think he's really one of the first people in quebec to translate q anon uh conspiracy theories into french uh so and right as the pandemic uh begins he immediately begins criticizing uh the response of the Quebec government. You know, it's exaggerated. You know, Legault is just a marionette of this world elite that's out to prevent Trump's re-election. All of this is very, very, very serious. We are being imposed a mask vaccination.

And what happens is that he has this following, you know, a modest following before the pandemic, you know, and about 25,000 YouTube subscribers. And over the months since the pandemic, it's, you know, expanded dramatically. And he now has close to 120,000 YouTube subscribers, just to show to what extent he's been able to cash in on the confusion around the pandemic and to use QAnon theories to kind of boost his own popularity. and to use QAnon theories to kind of boost his own popularity. That's interesting.

I mean, to what extent does that mirror the ways in which this anti-mask movement has kind of breathed life into the far-right movement in Quebec in general? I mean, I think Cossette Trudel is a perfect example of somebody who kind of shows the easy slippage from far right into conspiracy theories and you know even if a lot of the the the anti-pandemic thinking in Quebec isn't really uh framed as a an anti-immigrant issue the fact that so many of the people involved in the movement are have these ties to the far right are drawing on that far right anti-authoritarian message shows to what you know just to what extent those two movements can't really be considered distinct uh you know they're just kind of drawing from the same discourses of course you know the corruption

of mainstream media the mainstream media can't be it can't be trusted and that's you know they're therefore we have all these alternative sources of information to to provide you and to get you kind of questioning the state and it you know it's all it's all the same kind of rhetorical strategies that are being used by by those two strains of the movement In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections.

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podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Cops. And so we're seeing this manifest itself in these huge anti-mask protests where conspiracy theories are clearly running rampant. And also seeing it in this massive support online. But I understand that in recent months, it's crossing over now into actual security concerns. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. I think the Quebec provincial police have noted a staggering increase in the number of threats made to public figures in Quebec online. They've made several arrests. I've counted at least six arrests of people who've been arrested

and charged with making threats online, either against politicians, in one case it was against a journalist. And I think what it really demonstrates is the danger or the potential of conspiracy thinking to radicalize people. And all these people who, I should and also and all these people who who i should have mentioned all these people who've been arrested all their all their all their social

media activity indicates that they're uh they espouse conspiracy theories so it you know it's just it just kind of illustrates that conspiracy thinking can lead you um not necessarily but it can lead you to to radicalize behavior online can lead you to radicalized behavior online. And a lot of experts are worried that it's going to spill over into the real world. One of the recent cases that stands out to me is this 47-year-old truck driver from Quebec City, Philippe Côté. Tell me about him. So Philippe Côté was classified as an essential worker during the lockdown phase. And so he, as a trucker, was allowed to continue working.

And his lawyer told me he was somebody who was very confused by all the public health measures he had to take, all the safety measures he had to take as he traveled around. And he started looking for answers online. And the answers he found online were conspiracy theories. During the course of one of his work excursions into the U.S., he was in Texas. He places a phone call to Premier Francois Legault's writing office. He places one phone call and it was around 10 a.m. sorry 10 p.m. in a very calm voice says you know I regret voting for you Francois Legault and your days are numbered. Hangs up a few hours later now it's about two three o'clock in the morning he calls back now he's distraught he's swearing and he says I think I can get a gun and I'm going to shoot the public health director, who's Horacio Arruda. And when provincial police traced where that phone call was made, it showed that it was made from the parking lot of a gun store.

So that triggered alarm bells. And when he came back into Canada, border guards searched his truck and they didn't find a weapon. But they found several bits of paper which had conspiracy theories written on them. And he was a 450% increase over the same period last year. evolution in public thinking about conspiracy theories, you know. So, you know, conspiracy theories, you know, before the pandemic, something we would have laughed at, you would have considered, you know, you know, you know, crazy, you know, people wearing tinfoil hats, not really a topic worthy of public debate. But in, you know, certainly in the last several weeks, certainly I think since that large demonstration in Montreal, politicians in Quebec have recognized that this is something we need to take care of. This is something we need that deserves our attention. The first day

of the legislature this fall, a motion was passed unanimously calling on the National Assembly to take the threat of conspiracy theories seriously and to take some form of action. And so I think it illustrates to what extent the Quebec government knows that this is potentially a problem. This is potentially not just a problem of online violence,

but it's also potentially undermining its public health measures. Well, I imagine it's very delicate in this case because the anti-mask protests are protesting government intervention or authorities having too heavy of a hand in terms of the lives of Quebecers. So in coming up with a strategy to address this, I'm sure there's some concerns that it could have the opposite effect, that if you are too heavy-handed in it, it might just fan the flames. Exactly. And that's something that Premier Legault has been quite open about. Journalists are asking, well, are you going to crack down on these protests? You know, these protests where there's a lot of people not wearing masks in very close quarters, they're not respecting physical distancing, people are giving themselves hugs and all that kind of thing. And he says, no, I don't want to make them martyrs,

which I think this is something that happened in Australia where the government cracked down quite heavily on anti-mask protesters. And then they kind of became glorified figures. And I think that's something that the government is very leery about, is cracking down on these people and giving them more legitimacy than they clearly deserve to kind of address the claims that the movement is circulating and circulating with some amount of success. Right. And part of the reason why this is so important right now is just because of the number of cases in the province. On Saturday, health authorities reported 896 new cases and two deaths. Do you think that those kind of numbers

are going to, could have, you know, ultimately deter the anti-mask movement or is it going to give it more fuel? I think that's a, it's a really good question. And I think it's, it's one thing to question public health measures when infections were low. It was easier to say, is this necessary? Because we're not seeing many hospitalizations. The case count is pretty low. It is harder to make that argument now because hospitalizations are increasing. Cases are increasing at a staggering rate.

And so I think the reasonable grounds for opposing public health measures is disappearing. The only way that you'll be able to oppose them is by engaging in conspiracy thinking, is by kind of having to take the other step and say either these numbers are manufactured completely or that the virus is nothing but a flu. Like you have to kind of believe it's all a big hoax

in order to consider masks unnecessary, in order to consider lockdown measures unnecessary. Jonathan, thank you so much for your insight into this. My pleasure. I should just note that Jonathan did request comment from Alexis Cossette-Trudel, the radio host, but he did not hear back. That's all for today. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner.