Front Burner - As Gazans crowded for aid, Israeli troops opened fire

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

Gaza health authorities say 118 people were killed and 760 people were injured while trying to get food staples like flour from aid trucks on Thursday, after Israeli soldiers opened fire.The Israeli military claims most people were killed in a stampede of people around the trucks, but accounts from witnesses and medical workers say most of the victims were shot.So what precipitated this deadly search for aid? How close is Gaza to famine? And what would it take to get food to the people there who are starving?Yarden Michaeli explains. He’s a reporter with Haaretz based in Tel Aviv. For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcriptsTranscripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. Aid agencies are warning that near-universal hunger in Gaza is on the verge of becoming famine. And last Thursday, some of the first aid trucks to reach the north in weeks became the center of tragedy. We ran towards the food aid to get some. The soldiers and tanks fired at us. The people in the front and the back were shot, some in the hands, others in the legs. We left the food aid

and ran. Anwar Halua is describing what he saw southwest of Gaza City, where Gaza's health ministry said 118 people died and 760 people were injured. Accounts like his are drastically different from the Israeli Defense Forces' version of events. And this tragedy comes as fewer trucks have been allowed to cross into Gaza, even after an international court ordered Israel to let adequate aid pass through. So what happened when Israeli soldiers opened fire last Thursday? How close is Gaza to famine? And what would it take to get food to the starving people there? Yarden Mihaly is here with me now, and we're going to talk about everything that we know.

He's a reporter with Haaretz, and he's based in Tel Aviv. Yarden, thank you so much for coming on to FrontBurner. Thank you for inviting me. I'm hoping we can start southwest of Gaza City in the early morning last Thursday, in the hours before the tragedy then unfolded. And why had so many people gathered there? To answer your question, let's rewind a little bit to when the war broke. After the initial attack by Hamas on Israel and the massacre at the residential areas around it. Israel started

bombing the whole strip, but most of the attacks concentrated up in the north. Israel is changing the skyline of the Gaza Strip, flattening it. Medical officials in Gaza say more than 700 Palestinians have been killed. Israel has also cut off Gaza completely. No power, food and water allowed in. Now, one of Israel's biggest and strategic moves was to tell people that they had to evacuate in the direction of Rafah down in the south. But there are a couple of hundreds and thousands of people that are still up in the north. and thousands of people that are still up in the north. It's very hard to get access to food,

medicine, things that are necessary for survival. And in the past few months, we've seen those conditions deteriorating and deteriorating and deteriorating to the point when there's now severe hunger across the north. They have not been able to get any aid trucks into northern Gaza for more than a month now. And that means that malnutrition rates are absolutely skyrocketing. They have never seen malnutrition rates go up so quickly amongst children. So the people that we saw waiting for the aid convoy coming in last week were basically waiting so they could grab whatever they could do in order to feed themselves and feed their loved ones. Around four in the morning, thousands of Palestinians are already camped out by the coastal road in western Gaza City. Humanitarian aid trucks are reportedly en route, a rarity in northern Gaza,

where hundreds of thousands are now on the brink of famine. Talking about the severe hunger in the north, just for our listeners, I have just a few statistics here I was hoping to mention. So UN humanitarian coordinator Ramesh Ramesingam said one in six children under the age of two in northern Gaza are suffering from quote acute malnutrition and wasting. The World Food Program executive director said northern Gaza is seeing quote the worst level of child malnutrition anywhere in the world and of course as I know you know the Gaza health ministry says in just one hospital in northern Gaza, in recent days, at least 15 children

have died from dehydration. So it is a catastrophic situation. Right. I think that from around mid-December, so that's quite a while now, we keep seeing reports about the hunger becoming an ever bigger issue. And now it reached a point where people, issue. And now it reached a point where people, they found themselves that they had to eat food for animals. There were reports about people eating leaves. What has already happened to us is more than enough. We went to get flour for children. We have been eating animal feed for two months and even that ran out. What are we supposed to go? There's an increase in mortality. It's still very hard to quantify how much, but it's increasing. I think that it was just a few days ago when the UN's humanitarian agency appeared at the UN Security Council, and that's when they gave the number of about 570,000 people that are facing catastrophic levels of deprivation and starvation

across the whole enclave. And the vast majority of that is up in the north. thousand people that are facing catastrophic levels of deprivation and starvation across the whole enclave. And the vast majority of that is up in the north. Yeah. So Yarnan, this context, it brings us to the tragic events on Thursday, right? And so we've heard drastically different accounts of what happened from witnesses and from the Israeli Defense Forces. And first, what was the IDF's version of what happened? Because I do understand that it actually changed its story over time. It's a very chaotic event. I think that still now, it's very hard to understand what exactly happened over there. The IDF released an initial version, I think it was several hours after the

event itself. From what they say is that a convoy was coming in. We know that it was coordinated between the IDF and local contractors. Now you need to understand the context of those convoys when they come in because people are so hungry they just jump on them and that's a problem which has been increasing throughout the strip in recent months. Social media footage shows that similar recent convoys have been mobbed too. People are desperate to get food for their hungry children. The police no longer dare guard aid trucks because they fear Israel will target them as part of Hamas. The IDF says that as the convoy came in, masses of people, hungry people that were gathering there, jumped on the convoy. And in the chaos, a stampede happened and most of the people

died in the chaos, being stomped on by other people and then run over by the truck drivers that were trying to get out of the chaos. According to that initial version we received, the convoy then moved a bit onwards. There was some alleged shooting by armed people that tried to loot the convoy in order because that has also become an issue in the war. And then a group of soldiers was surrounded by some of the masses of people that were there. And they felt endangered and they were shooting at their direction. We also had a group of people that approached the military forces in a war zone. The forces opened fire in the air to distance them, warning fire, in order to get people out of harm's way. Unfortunately, they proceeded to advance, and indeed they're a perceived threat, and the forces opened fire. The army does acknowledge that soldiers did fire in the direction of the people that were gathering there.

According to the army, most of the people that were killed, we're talking about, I think it's 118 right now, because of the stamp accounts and reports that we have heard contradict the IDF's version of events, the version that you just laid out? Yeah, so just like in recent days, we saw testimonies by local Palestinians that were there that said that they were shot on, they were shot on several times. What happened was that yesterday we received information that aid would be dropped in the Debulsi roundabout area. Then at five to four, we were surprised by Israeli tanks that came out and opened fire on people randomly and directly. The Israelis just opened random fire on us as if it was a trap. Once we approached the aid trucks, the Israeli tanks and warplanes started firing on us.

If this continues like this, we do not want any aid delivered at all. Every convoy coming means another massacre. Also, doctors that treated people that arrived to hospitals in Gaza City, in one of the hospitals, the manager of the hospital said that the vast majority of people that arrived there had bullet wounds, that they died due to shooting, to being shot at. I think that what you just mentioned is a very good point. It's a very important point. The fact that journalists can't enter the strip, that makes it very difficult for us to understand what really happens in those kind of places. to understand what really happens in those kind of places.

And in order to really understand what happened, we need some kind of an independent investigation, perhaps by the UN or other bodies. But at the moment, considering what's happening in the war and the amount of hostility between the sides, it's something which is unlikely to happen immediately. happen immediately. And I'll just note, you know, it was something that I saw that some of the witness accounts did say that the chaos didn't actually start until the Israeli soldiers began firing, which is, again, very different from the IDF's account. And another point, as we're talking about how little infrastructure remains to respond to something like this in the north,

there are accounts that because of a lack of ambulances, some of the injured were taken away in donkey carts. Instead of aid, they've come away with the dead. By donkey cart, car and makeshift stretchers, the wounded are taken to nearby hospitals, all of which are overwhelmed and barely functioning. We are operating on batteries. Most of our victims are in critical condition,

which requires urgent surgical intervention. But the hospital is without operating rooms. I stand helpless. We are simply administering first aid treatment only. You know, I've read a few analysts who say even beyond the question of what directly caused the deaths on Thursday, Israel is responsible for this tragedy because Israel created the conditions that led to it. And I wonder if you could explain that argument to me more. How could this be due to negligence on Israel's part? What happened basically is that as the war progressed and Hamas lost control of certain areas, Hamas is not just a terrorist organization.

It was also the organization that was responsible for social order in the Strip, right? For example, it has police officers that work for it. the IDF progressed and Hamas lost control of certain areas, Israel hasn't established any kind of mechanism that would allow for the social order to continue. So like what's going to happen the day after the war ends. And that's important because then you can start talking about the kind of mechanisms, perhaps the Palestinian Authority or an international force or any kind of body that would come in and take care of those kind of things. Right, right. There has been discussions about maybe Jordan or Egypt would send in a peacekeeping force. There's lots of possible options on the table. It's just that none of them are really being discussed. And there's a massive vacuum, as you've said.

There's a massive vacuum. None of it is being discussed. We can see that Israel is objecting to conduct that kind of discussion because it's difficult politically for the prime minister because there are certain ministers from the extreme right which oppose that kind of discussion. The Palestinian Authority is also not very much interested in taking part in that kind of discussion, as long as there are no discussions about political solutions for the war. And just now, just today, people within the army here in the IDF said that we should expect even more incidents, similar incidents to what happened last week, if no solution will be found. on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment

and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to,

50% of them do not know their own household income. That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Just search for Money for Cops. Yardin, how is the situation in southern Gaza different from the situation in northern Gaza? I wonder if you could compare and contrast those two regions for me a little bit.

Sure. The enclave has about 2.2 to 2.3 million people living in it. And about 1.5, that's the vast majority, they're now concentrating down in the south. So it's very dense. There's nowhere left for them to go. As the war in Gaza has pushed civilians farther and farther south to avoid the violence, families are now pitching tents against the fence on the Egyptian border. About 1.5 million people are seeking shelter in Rafah,

which had a population of less than 200,000 people before the war. It's also important to understand that downwards in the south, that's where the humanitarian aid is coming in. There are two operational border crossings at the moment, one of them through Egypt and one of them through the south of Israel. So those people have access to a little bit more food and aid than the people up in the north. Still, it's a very, very difficult situation. We have people, massive amounts of people living in tents. It's winter now, so people don't have access to sanitation. The situation in the camp is nearly catastrophic. Food is not clean, people drink salty water because there is no fresh water.

Viruses and bacteria are alarmingly widespread among the children because of their weak immunity, because there are at least seven to eight children in each tent. Some of the people that we actually spoke with told us they would rather go back to the north than shelter in tents down in the south. But when you look at the reports coming in from the Strip, we do understand that the amount of destruction, for example, is much more massive in the north compared to the south. The warnings that we have now regarding famine, they focus mostly on what's been happening in the north. Yeah. I was reading in the New York Times this morning, you and I are talking on Monday morning, Eastern Standard Time, that there are actually people who are so desperate

and so hungry in the north that they're walking to the south because they're hoping that the situation there is a little bit better. I know back in November, we talked on this show about how some aid trucks were finally getting into Gaza. You talked about how there is some aid getting in. But recently, what do we know about how many trucks have actually been allowed to cross? So there are about 120 trucks coming a day. Those are the most recent numbers. I just checked them again this morning. The average basically is about 20% of the number of truckloads that would come in during pre-war

times. So if now it varies between sometimes 80, sometimes 120. Before the war, it was about 500 truckloads a day. I think there's something very important to understand about it is that it's not just about the number of trucks that come in. It's also about the ability to bring the aid to the people in need. You had communication problems, phones that weren't working, so it was difficult to coordinate between people or the driver or fighting parties, there's some unexploded ordnance across the strip. And that has also become an issue. We know that the UN is attaching experts that go along with certain convoys in order to make sure that they can go along the roads. There are all kinds of problems. The vast majority of aid hasn't reached the north. That's also one reason why it's so

difficult over there. After the war broke, there's a lot of agricultural land that was destroyed due to the fighting. Places where food was produced were also destroyed. Many bakeries were destroyed. Bakeries across the strip have been closed because they've run out of fuel or flour or out of fear of Israeli airstrikes. Several have been destroyed in direct hits, others damaged by strikes nearby. The World Food Programme says before the war, a third of the population was food insecure. Now that definition applies to every single Palestinian in Gaza. So before the war, the Strip had some ability to provide for its own needs. the war, the Strip had some ability to provide for its own needs. Now that the vast majority of the residents of the Strip, they're dependent on aid coming from the outside world. So we have

an increase in need, and there's a significant decrease in the amount of aid coming in. Right. And of course, this is part of the reason why the International Court of Justice has actually ordered Israel to let adequate aid through into Gaza. Over the weekend, the U.S. did its first airdrop of aid into Gaza. Airdrops are now one of the only ways to get aid into the north for the thousands who are stuck there. Today, along the water's edge, Palestinians scramble through the sand to reach some desperately needed food and medicine. Three military planes parachuted, I think, some 38,000 meals.

And Canada's international development minister has said last week that we are also working on airdropping aid. But can airdrops be a full-scale solution to getting food into the Strip? The simple answer is no. I think that also the U.S. acknowledges it. It was John Kirby, the White House spokesperson, that said that those airdrops were complementary and not a substitute for the ground operation. This is, of course, in addition to expanding deliveries by land, which we have been keenly focused on now for many months. We'll continue

to push Israel to facilitate more trucks going in and more routes being open so that more aid can get to more people. The ground operation can reach specific areas and more importantly in much, much, much larger quantities. Just imagine the number of planes that would have to come in on an hourly basis and drop aid in order to supply for the needs of the population at the moment. So it's just a drop, basically, in a bucket of needs. It also makes sense to think about what independent aid organizations, UN agencies, have been saying throughout the war, that an increase in humanitarian aid would still not solve the problems that the civilian population is suffering from in this war.

In order to really start providing aid to those people, the fighting has to stop. And this is why we can see this very consistent call by UN agencies and aid agencies for a ceasefire for quite a long time now. So let's end the conversation by talking about where we are with the ceasefire right now, the potential ceasefire. So U.S. President Joe Biden has said that the killings on Thursday complicated talks. But this weekend, a senior White House official said Israel had, quote, basically agreed to a six week ceasefire and a second round of talks would follow for a more lasting solution. Then Israel opted out of talks in Cairo on Sunday. So what are the sticking points that still remain between Israel and Hamas in these negotiations? So first of all, there's a time frame. Right now, all parties involved concentrate on perhaps nailing a deal or if a deal should materialize before the beginning of Ramadan that is about to start on March 10th. That's the time frame.

The core problem at the moment is that Hamas is looking for a way to end the war. They're looking for any kind of a deal of a ceasefire to eventually lead to a complete stop of the fighting. So at the moment, we have an optional deal in which both sides agree on the release of a certain amount of hostages, 40 hostages, for which 400 prisoners would be released by Israel. This is basically a first stage. We don't know exactly if it's going to include, for example, female soldiers. We don't know the identity of the prisoners that it would include. That's already a big issue for Israel.

You know, if Hamas suddenly demands to release some of its terrorists that were involved in the attack on October 7th, or people that were responsible for the murder of Israelis in the past. It's going to be very difficult for the public in Israel to accept it. But the question right now is whether both sides would manage to agree on some kind of a formulation that they could live with in the sense of it's not an end of the war, but it might be interpreted as something that could lead to an end of the war. And this is something which is also difficult for the government to accept at the moment. The reason for that is when the Israeli government started the ground

operation or went on its retaliatory attack against Hamas, it was saying that it's going to completely destroy the organization. And Netanyahu at the moment is promising complete victory. Now, this has created the conditions in which in case that this doesn't happen, Hamas would come out with a victorious image out of this war. And this is something that is going to be extremely difficult for Israel to accept. It's going to be extremely difficult for the government to accept. And it's going to be even more extremely difficult for Netanyahu to accept because he's very much dependent politically on extreme right ministers here in Israel that oppose that kind of scenario. So that's basically the situation at the moment. Right. Yarden, this was extremely

helpful. Thank you so much for doing this with us. We really appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. Okay, I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.