Front Burner - Auf Wiedersehen, Chancellor Merkel

Episode Date: September 28, 2021

Angela Merkel will step aside after 16 years as Germany’s chancellor, but Sunday’s election leaves questions over who will lead next. Today, how Merkel built her legacy of stability, and the forces that threaten to reverse it.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem, brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. It's November 9th, 1989, in East Germany, and after decades of the Iron Curtain, the Berlin Wall is about to fall. Thousands are gathered at the border ready for this breakthrough that will transform and inspire the rest of their lives.

I can't take it anymore. Just once in my life I want to walk through this Brandenburg Gate and to look into the other part. I've never take it anymore. Just once in my life I want to walk through this Brandenburg Gate and to look into the other part. I've never been over there. But Germany's future leader, a chancellor who will steer the country through 16 tumultuous years, isn't here. As a new era of freedom dawns, she's still in East Berlin, doing what she does every Thursday night. Steaming at the sauna and getting ready to go for a beer. Angela Merkel eventually went to West Berlin that night, and she was inspired. She

left her work in quantum chemistry to enter a united world of politics. And for a decade and a half, while she steered her country through a currency crisis, a refugee crisis, and a parade of global agitators, she mostly remained just as unflinching as she was when the wall came down. Some expect my speech to pave the way for a fundamental reform of the European architecture. I'm afraid they are in for a disappointment.

Now, Merkel is finally giving up her chair. On Sunday, Germany held the elections to replace her and a fractured vote is threatening both her trademark stability and her party's power. So today on FrontBurner, we're looking back on the Merkel era. Host of Berlin's Common Ground podcast, Soraya Sarhadi-Nelson, is here to discuss the legacy of the most powerful woman in the world. Hi, Soraya, thank you so much for making the time. Hi, Jamie, thank you so much for calling. So before we get to Merkel's legacy, let's talk about Sunday's election. Without Merkel, her CDU party is showing historically

bad results. And with votes spread across several different parties, it looks like talks to form a governing coalition could take weeks or even months here. So briefly, I wonder if you could tell me how did 16 years of Merkel's emphasis on stability lead to this chaotic result in the race to replace her? Well, there were many things that were happening that Germans, I guess, were frustrated with, or German voters. And I mean, everything from the refugee crisis, to the fact that there couldn't, there wasn't any kind of agreement or movement on climate change and how to deal with that. And I think the gap between the haves and the have-nots and this whole idea of having someone in charge for 16 years. And so as much as she helped and as much as people

looked to her as a stabilizing figure, and her approval ratings were actually quite high. If she had run again, maybe there wouldn't have been this craziness. But it's clear that Germans were also ready for a change. It's going to be very difficult for the two parties that got the most votes, in this case, the Social Democrats, which were the junior member of the governing coalition, followed by Merkel's conservative Democrats, for them to try and form a government. by Merkel's conservative Democrats, you know, for them to try and form a government. Okay. And, you know, in talking about Merkel's legacy today, I want to go through some of those conflicts that you just mentioned. So she became chancellor with the Christian Democrats in 2005, I believe, but I want to jump to her first big challenge in 2009.

In just two years, a government debt crisis that began here in Greece has infected all of Europe and maybe soon the world. How did Merkel handle the Eurozone debt crisis when high levels of debt in countries that use the Euro are threatening the currency's very existence? There is no quick or easy solution. There is no magic formula that will free us and end once and for all the debt crisis.

She wanted to make sure that Germany wasn't left holding the bill because German voters didn't want that, nor did her ruling party, or governing party, I should say. Apart from the fact that instruments like euro bonds, euro bills, debt redemption schemes and much more are not compatible in Germany with the constitution, I consider them wrong and counterproductive. It's the long-term enforcement of tough fiscal rules Angela Merkel favors, not pooling European debt and euro bonds. She also basically approached it very scientifically, I like to say. I mean,

it was a combination of sort of listening to what people had to say and reaching consensus. Merkel's approach to the debt crisis has been calm, logical, methodical, too slow, and unimaginative, according to detractors, especially outside of Germany. This has been sort of the definition of Merkelismulay over 16 years is forging ahead gently getting the various viewpoints and then forging consensus and that's been the biggest key to her success and because she is very non-assuming and doesn't really take very strong stances but we'll talk about exceptions to that in a second I think that is why she ended up getting credit for a lot of things that she didn't actually do be a minimum wage in Germany for the first time being introduced or gay marriage.

And what happened was that it passed. Angela Merkel herself, however, voted against the measure. And that's something that... But she gets credit for it now. Hmm. They have a not so friendly nickname for her, in part because of how she handled the debt crisis. From Angie to Moody, in part because of how she handled the debt crisis. From Angie to Mutti, the titan of European politics. Mutti? Mutti? Am I saying that right? What does that mean?

Where Mutti, yeah, Mutti is actually that that was done in Germany as well. I mean, people who were a little bit disparaging or sexist, I think, refer to her as mom. That's how you say mom in German. It's not a bad way of saying mom. But the point is, when you're talking about the leader of Germany, and you're referring to her as Mutti, you would never call, you know, another a male chancellor puppy or, you know, or Fata or Fatty. So the Greeks and the others, I mean, there was a bit of disdain for her. But in the end, actually, the the Greek Prime Minister was laudatory of how she handled things. So it's interesting how she was able to even turn her worst critics, basically even turning them into friends. I mean, she was never super friendly with President Obama.

And yet they had a pretty good relationship despite everything. Let's move ahead to 2015. The amount of refugees arriving in Europe soars, especially as people flee the civil war in Syria. In some countries, they throw up fences and border restrictions to limit the flow of immigrants. But in Germany, what does Merkel do? Well, she said, wir schaffen das, we can do that. That became her catch-all phrase that was also something that helped drive her down in the polls and ultimately out of office, as we see now. I mean, this is where she finally just had enough because her party was starting to suffer.

And she really led what at first was a very much of open door policy. That duty also means providing protection to those who deserve it. The Geneva Convention on Refugees applies to every member of the EU, not just Germany. And in fact, in Germany, we are talking about 1.7 million over the course of three years, most of them the first year. And her vision was formed in part because she was the daughter of a pastor. You know, she had sort of this look about refugees that liberals might have or, you know, people on the left. And that didn't sit well with her conservatives and with a lot of the countries around who are very concerned about what would happen if too many refugees came in. Her critics managed to turn this into something that basically made Merkel look soft, made Merkel look like she cared more about these people coming in than she did about Germans. The refugees certainly appreciated it.

You know, a lot of them were they actually there were a lot of people who named their kids Ange or Angie and Merkel, and they were very excited by this woman who actually said, look, this is our moral responsibility. This is our historical responsibility. We can afford to take some of these people in. And this was difficult for Germany at first to accept that many people at the same time. I mean, they were trying to come up with a system. I should say that the Europeans still don't have a good policy. They still don't have a joint policy. This is one thing they've just never been able to agree on, the refugees. But again, I mean, it's much better now in Germany. They have become much more organized. For example, for the Afghans that are coming in now, there's a much better system in place in order to bring

them in, to process them, to integrate them. And I think the system will work better if more and when more refugees come in, because I think that's a matter of inevitability here. In the years since that summer of welcoming, there's also been this resurgence of far-right politics. This weekend, the Alternative for Germany, or AFD party, made it into Germany's parliament for a second time, although with less seats. And I understand that before rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol in January, a mostly far-right crowd actually stormed Germany's parliament last year.

Yeah, it was a very small number. I mean, you can't even compare the two. But it was scary. Some of the people who are part of the Kverdenker movement, which is the sort of a QAnon of Germany, if you will. And they were out protesting about masks or something to that effect. And so some people get in. So it was not anything with guns or I mean, it was not a huge number. But for German, I mean, in terms of German sensibilities, it was just unheard of that something like this would happen. Germans are pretty formal about things and they don't have that sort of emotional roller coaster that we see in the United States. But I think it's important to remember that people are still frustrated. And again, they haven't given

whoever is going to end up in charge any kind of clear mandate about exactly what they want. But they also got very tired of the far right. I mean, the far right sort of took advantage of the dissatisfaction at first, but just like any opposition party, if all they do is say no, and this isn't right, but don't really come up with a plan that appeals or works or don't make a difference, people start to lose interest in that. It's sort of like, okay, this is interesting today, but not tomorrow. And that seems to be what's happening with the alternative for Germany. That doesn't mean that far right issues or that anti-Semitism or that all the things that come along with that, that that's gotten less here. In fact, those crimes are going up. And so there is still a very concerning far

right movement that's sort of rising here, neo-Nazis to some extent, that certainly the German authorities are keeping an eye on. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not

know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Cops. Let's loop back to Trump here. So Merkel also led Germany through a rise in authoritarianism and populism around the world, right? Vladimir Putin in Russia, Trump, there was the Brexit mess in the UK, China flexing its muscles. And as she negotiated all of these international tensions, what kind of leader did she become for the global community? Well, people saw her as sort of the last leader of the liberal or of the, you know, the centrist or

whatever you want to call it, democracies, that basically the leadership role that the US had was given up when Donald Trump, the populist, right-wing type authoritarian figure came into power. She never was comfortable with that mantle and with that label. And it's important to remember that she didn't really speak out against, for even within the EU where illiberal democracies were taking hold and authoritarian leaders, for example, Viktor Orban in Hungary. And, you know, and she just didn't say enough about it. I mean, she, you know, she did speak out against Putin, although even there, in the end, Germany negotiated a natural gas deal, you know, with Nord Stream 2. And that, obviously, didn't sit well with the United States and others. So she didn't go as far, I think, as some Germans who are opposed to the, for example, Vladimir Putin's or China's or whatever, that they would they would have liked to have seen her go.

I mean, I think that's going to be something that will be talked about maybe as one of her weaker points. As the only woman in these male dominated spaces, like she was also, criticisms aside, an inspiration to women, right, who want to lead. But she only, I didn't realize this, she only declared herself a feminist for the first time this month. And so how much has she ultimately done to open doors for women, you think? Well, it's interesting to note that in her particular district, electoral district, her party lost her seat. In other words, she wasn't running for parliament, obviously, or for the Bundestag, but her seat was there and her party lost it. But it was a woman who took it, a woman SPD, Social Democrat. So, I mean, she did open the door and people did try to step into it.

I mean, look at the Greens. You know, they tried to have a woman leader. Certainly the SPD, you have Franziska Giffey was supposed to be the new mayor of Berlin. But it wasn't enough. I think there were a lot of women who were disappointed she didn't speak more about bringing in women. But it's kind of tough when you're the lone woman in a situation like this. Obviously, there's still a long way to go, not just within Germany, but within the European Union. I mean, I look back to what happened to Ursula von der Leyen. She's the president of the European Commission, which is sort of the administrative arm, if you will, of the European Union. And when she and Charles Michel, who is the president of the

European Union, you know, the countries or the member states themselves, they went to Turkey, and the Turkish officials didn't offer her a seat. I mean, she was left standing when all the men sat down and it was like this really awkward situation. There was outrage about that, but there wasn't as much outrage in Germany, which was interesting. And certainly Merkel, as far as I know, she didn't say anything about it. I don't recall her saying anything about it. So I think there's always been this little bit of disappointment, perhaps, that she didn't do more. But in the end, when you're looking at an election that just happened here in Germany, where only one third of the candidates were women in a country that's more than slightly over 50% women, that shows that there's still, it's not just Merkel's doing, to, you know, drive by sight,

which I think means sort of forge on slowly, right? Based on what you can see in front of you, not sort of this hypothetical road ahead. If Merkel navigated these tough years by looking just in front of her, I'm wondering how well you think she's actually set Germany up for the future. Well, I think Germany came through the pandemic quite well, all things considered. I mean, they, the sort of the black zero, the budget that's not in the red, that's something that Germany is uncomfortable with and has had to get over a little bit, just like many countries have had to sort of do that to keep things stable. But there's no doubt that she did what German people wanted her to do, which was keep things

sort of on an even keel. She did that well for 16 years, and she advanced some things. Again, whether it was her directly or not, it doesn't matter. Things were improving for many. But it's clear that as she goes now and as the voters express a very, like a confusing array of mandates that they would like to see acted on, it's going to be really difficult for whoever follows. I mean, some have, you know, I've had some discussions with folks who've said that, well, she has been in charge for 16 years, and this is sort of the fallout from that, you know,

what do you expect? I mean, of course, people are going to want some change. And of course, no one's going to have a clear mandate, because there's nobody who can possess the public sphere the way she does, because she's been this figure, this icon, not just in Germany, but the world. So that might be, you know, something that she's not leaving behind, you know, that she's not really hasn't really paved the path for the next leaders to take over. How do you think Merkel will be remembered in Germany? I think she'll be remembered fondly. I think, you know, she was the first woman chancellor. She won't probably, she won't be the longest serving chancellor. I think she might miss that by a few days, because the goal is to try and form a coalition before Christmas. And I think

it would have to go a few days after Christmas for her to actually break the previous records. So that's frustrating. That would be frustrating. I'm sure she doesn't care. But she probably doesn't. I mean, this is a woman who you have to remember, she's very non-assuming, not just politically, but in life. She lives in the same apartment she lived in for decades, which is in the middle. I mean, anybody can walk past there and she goes shopping herself. You could see her at the local supermarket, literally bending down to get a bottle of pickles. A friend of mine who's a journalist saw this, you know, in action. She's very non-assuming. And I think that's how she will be remembered as the sort of somebody that everyone could relate to and who kept Germany going strong for decades or for 16 years in her case. Okay. Soraya, thank you so much for this. Thanks so much. All right.

So before we go today, a verdict in the federal trial for R. Kelly. The singer has been on trial in New York for six weeks over allegations he led a scheme to lure women and underage girls for sex. And yesterday, a jury found the singer guilty on all counts, including racketeering and eight counts of sex trafficking. The decision is being seen as an important moment for racialized women in the MeToo movement, as it's the first MeToo case where the accusers are predominantly Black women. Kelly now faces a possible sentence of 10 years to life in prison. He's also facing more sex-related charges in Minnesota and Illinois. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.