Front Burner - Bon Appetit, race and food culture

Episode Date: June 11, 2020

Bon Appetit editor-in-chief Adam Rapoport resigned on Monday over accusations of brownface. It involved a 2004 photo of Rapoport and his wife dressing up as Puerto Ricans. But according to more than a dozen former and current employees of colour who have since spoken out, the racism runs deeper than just that photo. Today on Front Burner, a conversation with culture writer Navneet Alang about this controversy, and what it says about who gets to tell stories about foods from different cultures.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Josh Bloch. Bon Appetit usually gets attention for its hugely popular YouTube channel, with over 6 million subscribers. On it, they test out recipes for the best lasagna,

and reverse-engineered junk foods. You don't want to scorch all of the beautiful fun that you're creating in the bottom of this pan. and reverse-engineered junk foods. It's become a pretty big cultural phenomenon, actually. But on Monday, the food magazine was trending on social media for a very different reason. Editor-in-chief Adam Rappaport was accused of brownface in a photo from 16 years ago. It's of him and his wife in Halloween costumes, and in it, Rappaport wears a heavy silver chain

and a do-rag underneath a baseball cap. In the Instagram post, his wife tagged it Boricua, a reference to Puerto Ricans, and called him Papi. The photo drew widespread anger online from Bon Appetit fans, and unleashed many other complaints about the magazine and its practices, including from the staff itself.

By Monday night, Rappaport resigned. Today, we'll talk about what this controversy reveals about mainstream food media. This is Frontburner. I'm here with Navneet Alang, a culture writer in Toronto. He recently wrote a piece for Eater called Alison Roman, Bon Appetit, and the Global Pantry Problem. Navneet, hello. Hi, how are you? I'm well. I want to ask you, first of all, tell me a little bit about Bon Appetit. You know, it's a food magazine, but it also has this huge presence online and their Test Kitchen videos have these millions of viewers on YouTube.

The editors featured in those videos have become these kind of YouTube stars in their own right. Tell me a bit more about what makes them so popular. these kind of YouTube stars in their own right. Tell me a bit more about what makes them so popular. I think the Bon Appetit YouTube kind of phenomenon is very much kind of like has become a cult of personality. It's like crack for your brain. I think crack is crack for your brain. And then you can never get the damn gloves on

when your hands are a little wet. God sakes. If the meat's not browning, what's the point? What was it that John Oliver said the other night? There's sort of an arena that they call

the test kitchen where they, you know, they test out recipes and they demonstrate things for their viewers. But there's a lot of, like, interaction between the hosts that people like.

I don't know about too salty, but the rosemary is pretty overpowering. Overpowering? I don't know if... It's a lot. Delaney, it's not the is pretty overpowering. Overpowering? I don't know if... it's a lot. Delaney, that's not the answer I was looking for. This was one of those...

It really tastes like rosemary. You nailed it. Don't change anything. That's more of what I was going for. There's a very kind of, sort of a chill, kind of young contemporary vibe to it. And I think that that's one of the reasons that it has become such a phenomenon is that it's sort of the way in which food has become part of pop culture. The whole kind of like tone of that YouTube channel tends to reflect that. I recently watched one of their editors, Claire Saffitz. She has a segment Gourmet Makes, you know, where she kind of reverse engineers things like has a segment Gourmet makes, you know, where she kind of reverse engineers things like Oreos and Bagel Bites and M&M's.

I think I recently watched her reverse engineer a gourmet ruffle chip. What does all dressed mean? This might be the greatest potato chip I've ever had. I was just in Canada. I ate a lot of this. I'm sorry. I lived in Canada for one year. How did I not know about this? And it's true. It felt like it was as much about the process and the mistakes that she was making as much as it was the product that she was trying to actually reach. Let me see if I go faster, if it gets a little bit thinner. Not what I was hoping for. Yeah, I mean, there was an interview with Claire Saffitz recently where, you know, one of the realizations that she had was that people don't really watch gourmet makes because they want to know how to make the things that she's that she's creating they what they actually want is um just the kind of the

catharsis of watching her go through the process of it um and so i think that's what another reason that the bon appetit has become so popular is that people just kind of like to to veg out in front of it you know like it's something that you put on at the end of a long day just to just to relax and know that i certainly do that's how I started watching the videos myself. Right. These chefs just seem like ordinary people trying to tackle a problem. Or ordinary people, but who have a bit more knowledge than the average person, you know, like that's the little flash of expertise. So on Monday, this photo of the editor in chief Adamappaport, resurfaces of him dressed up as a Puerto Rican for Halloween.

Tell me about the kind of reaction that we saw online. Yeah, it was quite sudden. And I think that it was also kind of, you know, it was taking place in the midst of this much broader conversation about racism generally. And so, you know, the outrage like like, really exploded very, very quickly. This major food magazine that's pushing knowledge of different food cultures is basically just sort of colonializing it. Terrible, not only because they've always had a problem with diversity in their kitchen, but because they're posting about spotlighting more Black-owned businesses.

diversity in their kitchen, but because they're posting about spotlighting more Black-owned businesses. And it was, I think, it was the kind of sort of outrage that it's almost like it was sort of pent up and it was just waiting for something to sort of release it. Because I think that people had kind of had this feeling about Bon Appetit for a while that something wasn't quite right, particularly about the way that they dealt with diversity and race, and then, you know, resulted in Rappaport's resignation the same day, which is, you know, quite, quite remarkable. Well, and there has been other points in Bon Appetit's history where they have been criticized for not respecting other cultures. I'm thinking of, for example, in 2016, they got in trouble for this pho is the new ramen video. Yes, pho is on the rise. We're talking about pho in relation to ramen. Pho is a fresh

experience. Ramen is like a deeper, more hearty experience. Yeah. And it was one of those examples where what often ends up happening is that because food media is so white, you get white personalities introducing, quote unquote, ethnic foods as if they're somehow exotic or strange. And often you don't get people from various cultures explaining not just the food or the cuisine itself, but how it fits into a broader culture or a broader history. I should say that Rappaport has since apologized for his actions. He expressed his regret for the Halloween costume and his own blind spots as an editor. And in fact, the Bon Appetit staff released a statement on Wednesday saying how their mastheads have been, quote,

far too white for far too long, and how they have at times, quote, appropriated, co-opted, and Columbus non-white stories. It does feel like, to me, there does seem to be a real recognition that something is wrong, both at Bon Appetit and in food media more generally. And I think that one of the reasons that that seems significant or important is that food is one of the main ways, I think, that people get introduced to different cultures. And so I think that the fact that there has been such a kind of rapid response seems to be actually kind of heartening. But obviously, the thing to kind of see going forward is whether or not

that actually turns into real change that we can actually tell is actually occurring. I want to ask you about that, the broader what this says about sort of mainstream food media in a moment. But just can you give me a sense, as this controversy has come to light this week, tell me more about what we've learned about what was going on inside Bon Appetit, and some of the concerns and issues that especially non-white staff have been expressing. Yeah, so there was an article that came out in Business Insider that had been in the works for quite a while that revealed that a lot of the people of color on staff felt as if there was a culture, sort of a toxic culture and a racist culture at Bon Appetit.

culture and a racist culture at Bon Appetit. And so one example was that Adam Rappaport's editorial assistant was paid $35,000 a year, which is very low income anywhere, but particularly in New York, to do things like teaches his wife how to use Google Calendar or pick up laundry. Some of the other things that came out, for example, were that despite the fact that Bon Appetit has become so popular because of its YouTube channel, the people of color who appeared on the YouTube channel were often not compensated for their time creating videos, which is obviously a real kind of, you know, creating videos, which is obviously a real kind of disparity between status and income. One assistant food editor said her salary was much lower than her colleagues. And while she appeared in the magazine's popular YouTube videos, only the white editors were paid.

Sola El-Wali ended up posting a lengthy Instagram story saying, I've asked for his resignation. This is just a symptom of the systematic racism that runs rampant within Condé Nast as a whole. So what do you think that this specific controversy around Bon Appetit says about mainstream food media? I feel like, as I said, like, I feel like that it was almost like this example, kind of allowed a kind of a bubbling outrage to kind of find its its focal point you know and so the article that I that I wrote for eater was was something that had been in process for quite a long time and emerged about the fact that you know I just I'd spend a lot of time watching food videos you know it's like a fun way for me to relax as I was watching them

I started to notice these patterns in which, um, uh, a food media was predominantly white and B that there was this sort of trend of, of kind of quote unquote global ingredients, things that to a lot of people, um, to say, you know, in a place like Toronto are quite familiar, like say, uh, kimchi or tahini or, or, or preserved lemons, um, started started to become kind of very popular ingredients. And the thing is that those ingredients were often introduced by, you know, white media personalities as if you kind of needed that, or at least a white mainstream needed that familiarity.

Fermented Korean food. I love kimchi. It's, you know, huge probiotic. It sounds pretty intimidating, but it's kind of rather simple. And today we're going to try to demystify that and we're going to make it together. It sort of felt to me that food media was sort of reflective of a kind of a broader pattern in which mainstream media tended to kind of center whiteness,

you know, and whiteness by that term, I mean, you know, just kind of like a set of kind of cultural norms that prioritize, you know, the concerns and the values of white people. Well, we saw this question flare up in food media with the cookbook author Alison Roman, when she became famous for something called the stew, which is chickpea, coconut stew with turmeric. When a soup becomes a stew, it's chickpea, coconut stew with turmeric. When a soup becomes a stew, it's a beautiful story. And then turmeric. I'm using ground and dried turmeric.

And the reason I'm doing that is because it is a pantry staple for me, at least. And I think it should be for you as well. What do you make of the insane popularity of that recipe? Yeah, I mean, you know, as someone who is of a south indian background it was a sort of a kind of stuck out particularly for me because of chickpeas you know turmeric are very kind of common ingredients in my upbringing and my cuisine and my cooking itself and it felt a little bit like you know what are people so excited about like like has no one ever heard of turmeric before excited about like like has no one ever heard of turmeric before um and so it it wasn't just you know that someone was using an ingredient that i was familiar with it's that it went so viral

um in a way that seemed to be connected to the kind of the whiteness of of the person who created the recipe allison roman but also then like the novelty of it was also sort of connected to Whiteness, the fact that really, it was kind of like a modified South Indian chickpea curry. Right. People were pushing back and saying, why are you calling this a stew? It's clearly just a curry. Yeah, right. It felt like, well, people are familiar with curry. It's like, why is it that this one became so popular, right? And it felt like, well, that clearly has something to do with how contemporary food culture is tied up with particular ideas of identity. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem.

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Yeah, I mean, I think that what often happens is that media understandably functions on novelty, right? Like people are always looking for a whole new thing to kind of grab people's attention. So I think that what often ends up happening, say with someone like Alison Roman, she's a good example of this, is where she will pick up ingredients like turmeric,

and it's sort of used as a way to kind of inject novelty into the familiar. The nice thing about cooking with turmeric is that a little bit really does go a long way, and not only is that amount going to flavor everything really nicely, but it's going to turn everything this really beautiful golden electric neon color. But what ends up happening, I feel like, is one is that where those ingredients fit into a cuisine gets lost, right? And so one example is in Alison Roman's stew, she uses turmeric as a garnish, like heavily covers the dish at the end with turmeric which uh it's a very strange thing if you're south asian because most people feel that you should bloom turmeric in some fat

to kind of temper its bitterness so it's like so that's one thing that happens is that is that you know the ingredients you get and end up getting used quote-unquote incorrectly right the other thing is where those sort of ingredients and dishes fit into a culture and a history also tends to get lost. And so, you know, kimchi, the Korean sort of pickle kimchi has become a very popular ingredient across North America. But, you know, kimchi has a very long history in Korean culture. It also has a real kind of like place in the Korean home or in the Korean kitchen as a kind of cultural reference. And that aspect of it also tends to get lost. So it's like, it's those two aspects of like, A, how does the cooking work? But B, how does the cuisine function as part of culture that seems to get lost when the

ingredients get pushed in? And why, for you, does the history matter in this context? I mean, if someone says, look, I'm just making dinner here, I just want to follow a recipe, I don't necessarily need the historical context to it. What would be your response to that? I would never want someone to not cook something in their own home for fear of, you know, appropriation or fear of like, oh, well, I don't know the history of this ingredient, therefore I can't use it. But I think that there's a difference between what we do in private and what happens in public. So I think that when these ingredients get presented in public as, you know, these things divorced from history, it's this sort of weird kind of circular dynamic where white media personalities will present these ingredients.

Then, you know, a predominantly white audience will start to use them and say, oh, then it becomes popular, then it becomes legitimate. And it sort of reinforces that dynamic in which the mainstream is always defined as white. And rather than the mainstream sort of shifting and changing to sort of become more diverse, I think that that's the problem when there's a lack of representation, I think that that's the problem when there's a lack of representation is that whiteness always gets prioritized. And, you know, speaking as someone who is a, you know, quote unquote minority, that can be both very frustrating and also quite alienating when it happens repeatedly over the course of your life. So it feels like this food is presented as novelty through a kind of white lens rather than acknowledging the rich and deep history of where the food comes from. And by extension, then you don't end up acknowledging the people of which the food is a part of their life. And sometimes it's just frustrating.

You know, like sometimes it's, you know, a very classic story that a lot of children of immigrants tell is that they go to school, they take out their lunch out of their lunchbox, and the kids around them complain that it smells or it looks funny. And that sort of lingers. And then, you know, 10 years down the road, suddenly everyone is talking about whatever, kimchi or turmeric. And there's just definitely on a gut level, there's just a sort of a frustration to that that it's like well oh now it's okay you know is there a risk that people might interpret what you're saying as like it's only appropriate for thai food to be presented by a thai chef or moroccan food by a moroccan chef yeah i mean i definitely have gotten that reaction from people

and that certainly isn't my intention. I do think that in food media in particular, that there need to be more chefs and cooks of color presenting these ingredients and these dishes and these cuisines. But I also think that there is a way to present things from other cultures that are not your own in a way that is respectful. from other cultures that are not your own in a way that is respectful. Hosts of shows can invite people of color on to introduce things or they can explain various kinds of history. I don't like the idea of gatekeeping, of saying, well, you're absolutely forbidden to use this thing or do this thing. I think it's about acknowledging what's happening in this contemporary moment that people are talking about power and prejudice and representation and what those things do and what those things mean.

And I think that that's the thing that has to be the hope. I'm curious to know your take on, you know, the way that mainstream food media is evolving. You have personalities like David Chang and Simi Nosrat, who are incredibly popular. The award-winning chef behind the Momofuku restaurants, David Chang. I think it confuses people because i love lowbrow uh eating as well it's okay to like something that is beloved today i'm speaking with smeen nosrat the food writer and host of netflix's salt fat acid heat every great writer is going to come out of this with some important philosophical statement and all i'm gonna have is a lasagna and you know i wonder where you see

them fitting into this conversation are they exceptions or do you think we're going to be seeing more chefs like them i mean i think that those two examples might be exceptions i think that david chang has done a lot but has also gotten away with a lot because of the kind of the bad boy chef sort of routine that a lot of male chefs get away with. Samit Nasrat, I think, is great. But I also think that one of the reasons that she has become so successful is that she is very good at translating various cuisines for a majority white audience. And that's not to take away from anything that Samin Nosrat has done, but I just think that that's sort of a function of how she approaches food. Soy sauce packs so much flavor that it's the only seasoning you need to turn something as simple as chicken and rice into the perfect lunch.

And so they may be exceptions, but I do think that things are in the process of changing because I think that people of color in those positions are pushing for that change. And so Bon Appetit is a really good example of that. If you look at some of the chefs of color who are part of Bon Appetit, like Priya Krishna or Rick Martinez, you know, they've been over the past couple of weeks have been very vocal and very critical of Bon Appetit in a way that I think is quite courageous and quite commendable. And I think that that kind of bravery will start to change things because people of color are themselves demanding the change. I want to end this on the anti-black racism protests that continue. And in the wake of them, we're seeing this real reckoning happening with the whiteness of mainstream media, which you referenced at the beginning of this conversation.

And it's not just in food journalism, but it's in all kinds of journalism. We're seeing editors are stepping down left, right, and center over accusations that they've hurt their Black staff. The top editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer resigned Saturday after a headline lamented the destruction of buildings during Black Lives Matter protests. The headline, quote, Buildings Matter Too, led to a walkout by dozens of Inquirer journalists.

How do you see what's happening to Bon Appetit relate to this wider movement? What has happened at Bon Appetit seems to be a reflection of how deep racism runs and how sort of strong action is necessary to counteract it. The flip side is that despite the fact that people of color are making themselves heard at a place like Bon Appetit, there are currently no regular Black chefs on Bon Appetit. And so I think that what this moment and its relation to kind of the broader protests that are going on, to me, tends to reveal is that we really need to address anti-black racism as sort of like the most kind of like pernicious fundamental aspect of racism in society in order to then address racism more generally. And maybe that's me proselytizing a little bit, but that has certainly been my reaction

over the past couple of weeks and certainly has prompted a lot of self-reflection on my part as well. Navdeep, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this. Thanks so much. Some news today about another magazine owned by media conglomerate Condé Nast. Vogue's editor-in-chief Anna Wintour has apologized for not doing enough to amplify black voices on her staff. In the internal email, she also wrote that, quote, We've made mistakes too, publishing images or stories that have been hurtful or intolerant.

I take full responsibility for those mistakes. Wintour wasn't specific about those mistakes, but the magazine has been accused of racism in recent years. For example, a photo of Kendall Jenner with puffed up curls was seen by many as culturally appropriating an afro. Gigi Hadid has been accused of wearing blackface on the cover of Vogue Italia. And it wasn't until 2018 that Vogue featured a cover shot by a black photographer. At that point, Vogue had been around for 125 years. That's it for today. I'm Josh Bloch. Talk to you tomorrow.

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