Front Burner - Bonus | Nothing is Foreign: South Korea’s ‘K-Trump’ gives voice to growing anti-feminist movement

Episode Date: March 19, 2022

South’s Korea incoming president, Yoon Suk Yeol, demonizes feminism, blames women for the country’s low birth rate and denies the existence of gender inequality. His campaign — which capitalized on the politics of grievance — has drawn comparisons to former U.S. president Donald Trump. So much so that he is also known as K-Trump. This week, on Nothing is Foreign, we hear from the women who are fighting for their voices, rights and safety and explore the roots of the country’s anti-feminist movement. Featuring: Jieun Choi, South Korean journalist. Haein Shim, artist and activist of Seoul-based feminist group Haeil.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. South Korea has a new president after former conservative prosecutor Yoon Suk-yool won by less than 1%. So last week, Yoon Suk-yool won the South Korean presidency by the smallest margin the country's ever seen. And he did it in what's been called South Korea's anti-feminist election. There is a heated debate happening in the country right now over gender politics.

And throughout his campaign, Yoon was courting young men who blame women and the feminist movement for their financial struggles. But women pushed back, protesting what they saw as appeals to misogyny. They were often facing off against anti-feminist

counter-protesters. Activists say Yoon's win is a huge blow to the women's movement in South Korea, which has really picked up steam in recent years. It was sad to see that Yoon was elected president through populist tactics based on hatred. They say women are being scapegoated as Korea's going through a period of severe economic insecurity. On this episode, we're heading to South Korea. We're going to look at how a brand of politics

built on grievance and economic angst has struck a nerve with young Korean men and what this means for Korean women. I'm Tamara Kandaker, and you're listening to Nothing is Foreign. I am actually scared. I was very scared when I found out that he was elected because I have seen what had happened in the States after Donald Trump was elected.

Ji Yoon Choi is a journalist in South Korea who's been covering the women's movement. And she woke up the morning after the election and was heartbroken to see the winner, Yoon Suk-yeol, the candidate from the conservative People Power Party. When this racist and anti-feminist, they found a voice

because their president were parroting what they were saying. So I was scared that the same thing might happen in Korea. Yoon was neck and neck with Lee Jae-myung, the candidate from the governing Democratic Party, until the very end. So I half expected her going to sleep the night before, but I was still very shocked. That sounds a lot like the experience people had when Donald Trump was elected. Like they went to bed expecting one thing and then woke up and were just stunned.

Exactly. Yoon has never held elected office before. He actually only entered politics less than a year ago. Before that, he'd made a name for himself as a no-nonsense prosecutor. He played a key part in ousting former President Park Geun-hye for corruption. He has been known during his career as a very straightforward guy who doesn't pander to different political beliefs. He only believed in his role as a clean and honest prosecutor. Yoon ran on a platform of cracking down on corruption, building closer ties with the U.S., a tougher stance on North Korea, and dealing with wealth inequality in the country. But since he was elected, there have been headlines popping up that look familiar.

Immigration to Canada has been trending on South Korean Twitter, like it did back in 2016. And Yoon Suk-yool is being called K-Trump. And look, at this point, there have been a ton of populist politicians compared to Donald Trump. But the parallels between these two are pretty undeniable. They both like to talk to their base on social media. Yoon's critics point out that they both like to distill complex policies down into slogans. They shower controversial political figures with praise, and they often say stuff that's considered taboo.

But maybe the most obvious parallel is how they capitalize on the politics of grievance. In Yoon's case, the grievances of angry young men. a comparison between Yoon Seok-yeol and Donald Trump because he's been talking loudly about anti-feminist agenda that he has. So for instance, he's during the debates for the presidential race has talked about how in South Korea today there is no such thing as a structural gender inequality, and it's more of a personal matter. By looking at the collective male and female problem as an individual rather than a collective problem, we can better guarantee the rights and interests of the victims. problem, we can better guarantee the rights and interests of the victims. When in reality, South Korea has the highest gender pay gap among OECD countries, even

though it's the largest percentage in history, we still only have 19% of female representation in the National Assembly. So gender inequality is pretty much still a very big issue in this country. And yet him as a presidential candidate, now a president elect, has been repeatedly saying that the bigger problem is young men being discriminated against their female counterparts. Yoon has blamed feminism for South Korea's low birth rate, which is something that successive governments there have been trying to fight for decades. The country also has a rapidly aging population.

So that, combined with a low birth rate, could be really bad for the economy. South Korea's birth rate is one of the lowest in the world, and its population actually declined in 2021. Yoon says this is happening because feminism is preventing healthy relationships between men and women, and has created conditions that are ill-suited for having and raising children. But the actual reasons behind the low birth rate are complicated. This is how Hyein Shim, the spokesperson for the Seoul-based feminist group Hyeil, explains why women might decide not to have a child. Well, the economic system is not really financially supporting us to have a child. The housing market is too crazy. We're not even making

that much money. Minimum wage is too low. How can we even think about having a child when we can't even make a lot of money and can't even buy a house? Or if we have a child, do we get any type of benefits by having a child? Not really. And us having a child is basically a suicide of our career because how can we get a job again? She says women in Korea regularly get asked when they're applying for jobs whether they're going to get married or have kids. They don't say that we can't have you because you're women, but they're asking us a specific question. Then if you're women, you might not get hired in this patriarchal job market. Then we basically have to force ourselves to, you know, like, I'm not going to get married, I'm not going to have a child, because I don't want to have this

cut off in my career. And I think a lot of Korean women are now very much going against this heterosexual normalized family, because we are acknowledging more that heterosexual patriarchy has been like treating us only as like a female free slave you're staying at home you know um but also they're trying to make us uh work in the same time but also you're gonna do your female house tour for free for me things like that yeah so so it sounds like it's a combination of how difficult it is to afford to have a kid and career right now because things are so expensive. And then also women are rebelling against the expectations that society's put on them. And they'd rather have careers and forego marriage and being mothers. Yes, we've seen our mothers and then we felt that this is not going to be me.

The Minister of Gender Equality and Family, Chung Young-Ai, echoes some of what Hyein's saying. We live in a society where the expectations for women in childcare are far greater, which is why we need to change our societal culture and regulations and organizations so that both men and women are equally responsible for childcare. The birth rate will only increase when we reach real gender equality in our society. organizations so that both men and women are equally responsible for child care. The birth rate will only increase when we reach real gender equality in our society. Among other things, the ministry is responsible for policies that would boost the birth rate. But one of Yoon's most contentious promises is to get rid of the ministry altogether. So the key policies that he pledged included abolishing Ministry of Gender Equality and Family and also strengthening penalties against false reports of sex crimes to major topics that a lot of like anti-feminist and men's rights activists have been talking about over the years. The ministry was established in 2001 in response to calls for the government to do more to promote women's rights. And one of its major accomplishments was getting rid of a family registration system

that required families to register under a male family head. But as the country's gender politics have become more heated, critics have questioned why it exists. It's been accused of underperformance and political bias for staying silent about sexual misconduct cases involving liberal politicians. After Yoon promised to abolish the ministry, his poll numbers actually jumped by 6%. And seeing that response, the rival Democratic candidate Lee seemed to also notice how anti-feminist sentiments were resonating and pledged to remove the word women from the ministry's name. from the ministry's name.

And the thing is, like, the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family has the smallest budget out of all the other ministries in Korea. And yet, like, a lot of anti-feminists and men's rights activists claim that they're using up taxpayers' money supporting the feminist ideas. In reality, they're supporting a lot of family-related issues, a lot of single mother issues or migrant women's and adolescents outside of education system. Who voted for Yoon? Who makes up his base of support? So according to the exit poll, people above their 60s, regardless of their gender, they have traditionally been supportive of the conservative party.

And also Korea is very divided by geography. So it's mostly people above 60s and the people who live in the southeast region of South Korea that have supported Yoon Seok-yeol, but what's most notable is that more than half of men in their 20s, they voted for Yoon Seok-yeol this election. Traditionally, young voters in general, regardless of their gender, have been more supportive of the left-leaning party. Young Koreans have been reliably progressive in the past, but they're now seen as a crucial swing vote. Unlike older generations, they're less driven by things like regional allegiance or loyalty to a political party,

and much more by economic anxieties, like soaring house prices, a widening income gap, and a lack of job opportunities. As the current problems for the young people concerning employment and housing prices are serious, I voted for a candidate who made a pledge to come up with countermeasures. And the young men Yoon was speaking to throughout his campaign blame feminism with men's rights groups like New Men's Solidarity

leading the charge online. In that clip, the leader of New Men's Solidarity, Pei Yingyu, says feminists are holding Korean men at, quote, knife point. These groups have found an ally in Lee Jun-suk. He's a 36-year-old Harvard-educated men's rights activist who's currently the chairman of the PPP and was a key aide to Yoon throughout the campaign. Lee has described gender equality policies as reverse discrimination and criticized the governing Democratic Party, saying they'd ignored male voters in their 20s and 30s. He's been described as a hero of online misogynists and has been credited with attracting young men to the PPP.

In the recent election for Seoul mayor and Busan mayor, men in age 20s, they voted 72.5% for our party. That's a really strong message to the ruling party. The ruling party had laid out so many messages saying that women are in inferior status and we have to adjust these status balance. A survey from May of last year found that 58.6% of Korean men in their 20s strongly oppose feminism. Almost the exact percentage of men under 30 voted for Yoon in this election. Thank you. Gem, brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people, and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income. That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Cops. This election and the anti-feminist vitriol from young Korean men comes as the women's rights movement has really blossomed in Korea in recent years.

Its revival, or the feminist reboot as it's known there, goes back to a tragic incident a few years back. The term feminism reboot has been in the public discourse in Korea since 2016 when this one young female was murdered in a very busy area in Seoul. And the murderer later told the police he killed her solely out of his hatred towards women. Thousands of messages coated over the walls of exit number 10 of Gangnam station. From words of condolences and sorrow to messages condemning hate crimes against women and calling for a safer society.

It breaks my heart and it makes me angry. She died because she's a woman. And that's when a lot of young women realized that their fear as a young woman living in this country has not been an individual issue. And that's when the rallies began and that's when the feminist discourse really got the traction in Korea. And two years later, in 2018, there was a huge set of women's rallies crying against the discrimination in the investigation when it came to spy cam crimes. And for people who don't know, what is a spy cam crime and how prevalent is this in South Korea? So spy cam crime includes filming someone without their consent or without them knowing in both public and private spaces. And it's so common that if you go to any public toilets in a subway station or in just a building in a busy area, you'll see holes all over inside a cubicle. Or also if you go stay at like a cheap hotel, like there will be cameras installed somewhere hidden. somewhere hidden. And these videos would go online and be shared by just tens of thousands of men online. And it's been a huge problem in Korea.

You yourself were targeted by a spy cam crime, right? What happened to you? So this happened at the height of the spy cam crime rallies back in summer in 2018. So I was reporting on these rallies as a journalist when one day the police came to my apartment and told me that someone was filming me outside my apartment. filming me outside my apartment. So it turned out 40 something year old man who lived like three, 400 meters far from my apartment building. He was filming with like a big camera on the rooftop of his six story apartment building. The sad thing about that was that when I, when I called like women's rights groups about like seeking for help when I found out they told me I'm actually on the luckier side because the police came to me with an evidence a lot of women bear the responsibility of having to provide the evidence to the police and prove their own

prove that they have become a victim of spy cam so it's yeah it's it's a pretty it's a very very big issue here and it did go to court and later when the police was investigating because my case turned into a high profile case due to a spotlight it got um they found other victims. He's had more than eight victims over the years. But eventually, the judge decided that the perpetrator's family and his job is more important than the safety of women. So he decided to not send him to jail. He did sentence him to a certain amount of jail time, but he suspended the sentence. So he eventually didn't go to jail. So to understand the misogyny that South Korean women face today, both Ji Yoon and Hyein say you have to go back to what was happening in the 60s and 70s when Korea was going through a period of explosive economic growth. Hyein explains it through the lens of her own family.

My aunts, they really couldn't go to school because they're women. And they were more like pushed into this, the factory jobs when the Korean economic development was kind of like uprising. So a lot of female laborers were in the factories while a lot of males were able to get their education because females are working. My uncles, they went to school, they went to good school because they didn't have to worry about this financial hardship because they don't have to worry about tuition while they have this free tuition coming in from their sisters. Another factor Hyein points to is a period in South Korea throughout the 70s and 80s where it was common to have sex-selective abortions, and families chose to have boys over girls. The Population Reference Bureau's Monica Dasgupta says that this had a

lot to do with the fact that South Korea used to be a society of mostly farmers. Son preference is widely prevalent in agrarian societies in which familial roles lead sons to be valued more than daughters. Sons are expected to inherit and work the family land and care for their aged parents, whereas daughters typically move away from the home and can be of less use to parents. Sex ratios in China and South Korea rose sharply during the 1980s and early 1990s. The ratio became so imbalanced that in 1988, South Korea's government actually banned doctors from revealing a baby's gender to its parents. We had this really unbalanced sex ratio during that time. And I'm that generation. I was

born in 1993. So I was born in that generation that a lot of boys were able to be born in the society while a lot of girls, they basically die just because they were girls. So me growing up was very difficult because my father wanted to see the difference in the society, but he was not fighting for me, I have to be more submissive, I have to be more focused on my appearance. And everyday life was, you know, like, you have to talk like a woman, you have to act like the women, you have to serve the men. Your only goal in this world is get married and have a lot of child. And that's your only goal in life. They only see me as a factory, like a baby factory.

And not only that, a lot of males who got this type of education and a financial achievement in the past, like my father's generation, because of their sisters and because of their mother's sacrifice, now they're in the power goal. And then now they're making the decisions. And that's why the Korean job market for women are extremely difficult because we just can't get a job because they prefer male over females. Given how tough things are for women in South Korea, based on everything that you've just described, why did anti-feminism become such a dominant theme in this election? Because a lot of male in their 30s and 20s, they do really think that reverse discrimination exists and the gender equality are already achieved in Korea because we can get education, women can get education, women can get a job, so they don't see the discrimination while we're experiencing at all because they

weren't, they were not us, they never experienced what we're going through. Because of the selective sex abortion, they were raised almost as a king of their house. So they don't even acknowledge the privilege they have, but they only see what they don't have. A lot of men in their power, especially, you know, PPP, the current power, the party right now, they just wanted to use the women as a scapegoat. They basically make this common enemy, look at this, women are the problem. Women are the issue of what we're going through. You don't have a job, it's because of women.

You don't have a house, because of the women. We basically became a common enemy. A lot of men in their 20s and 30s, they have no idea what feminism is. They just see the ministry of gender equality is for women, and we are getting the reverse discrimination. And once we can eliminate this, then feminism in Korea will be over. That's what they think. And that's why they just decide to go for Yoon. So I'm just wondering, how do these young men reconcile their belief that the feminist movement is the cause of their problems with the reality of the pay gap and all of the things that you've mentioned?

Like, what is the logic behind their thinking? Why did they think that they're at a disadvantage? I think that's a really good question because I recently had this conversation with my brother. And my brother used to be very anti-feminist. And what he said was that it kind of like directly involved with the military service. This is an argument that popped up a lot during the campaign. Young men pointing to the 18 months of compulsory military service that they have to do between the ages of 18 and 28 that women are exempt from. I do think the fact that only men have to serve is a little unreasonable from the male perspective.

For them, as we're not going to the military service, we basically have this advantage in the job market so we can get a job faster. Basically, my argument was, well, if you really don't want to have this mandatory part, then you should challenge the Ministry of National Defense, not us. But they don't challenge the existing power structure. They don't challenge the man authority. But as you see the statistic from OECD, The Economist, Korea has the thickest glass ceilings. We don't really get paid as much, even though we're doing the same job. But they don't see it. They don't believe the statistics. They just think that all those statistics are like liberal hoax. Yeah. I'm curious, why is it that men from this generation have rallied

around anti-feminism? A lot of like Korean high school, middle school, if you're like segregated, like a male high school, like a women's high school, a lot of men's high school, they have this slogan, almost like the vision statement saying that if you study a little bit more hard, if you study five more minutes, your wife's face will be different. If you get a good job, your wife's figure will be different, this sort of thing. So they think women,

they grow up in the sense that women more as a commodity, more something that award to them. Their reality gap as I was grow up as a king, but I can't have whatever I want anymore. Yoon and his supporters also talk about wanting Korea to return to being a meritocracy. They say feminism has pushed the country away from that. Hyein says that makes no sense. A lot of Korean women, we have been outperforming by Korean SATs like Sunung and also the test of the government jobs and other employment tests in Korea.

I also asked Ji Yoon about this, and she explained just how competitive South Korea is. And that ever since women stopped financially supporting their male family members who were in school and started going to school themselves, the competition's gotten even more intense. Going to a good university almost defines your career and your entire life trajectory. So it's a very cutthroat rat race when it comes to scoring high in education. Like the private education sector is massive in Korea. The thing is, because the economy growth is slowing down, it doesn't guarantee a good job as it did in like maybe 20, 30 years ago.

There are more job seekers than vacancies in corporations, so it's hard to become employed. The process of resume submission, screening and interviews is rigorous and it's taking a toll not just on me, but on all job seekers. So now it's gotten even more competitive. A lot of young people are competing against one another to get a stable job in this country. So it's like a never-ending set of exams and competitions in your life for you just to sustain a life as what seemed like an average person's lifestyle in the past generation.

what seemed like an average person's lifestyle in the past generation. So Yoon is now in charge, and he's going to be under pressure to make his promises a reality. But Hyein and Ji Yoon are optimistic because they don't think it's going to be that easy for him. I think realistically abolishing the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family would be difficult, if not impossible, because the opposition party, they are currently dominating the National Assembly. Because it was such a narrow victory for Yoon, he has to really aim for integrating the country instead of keeping on dividing the country in half in terms of gender or region. There is also the fact that Yoon was expected to win by a landslide, but his victory

was much smaller, all thanks to women who mobilized to vote against the PPP. My first reaction was, of course, I cried. of course I I actually threw up oh man I know and I just I just couldn't sleep for the few days I just couldn't bear to think that oh my god not again but later on like a few days later I was like starting to thinking that well you know what they only won for like 0.7%. They were so sure that, oh yeah, we're going to win by like more than 8%, more than 10%. Their tactic didn't work. And because this election was the proof of women's power in their 20s and 30s

and the way we got united and show them and tell them. and show them and tell them. It's only been a week, and already, much like the women's march rallies we saw after the election of Donald Trump, women have been out in the streets voicing their opposition to Yoon's policies. Women's rights activists called on president-elect Yoon Seok-yook to withdraw his campaign pledge

to close down the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family. So, yes, the election was the loss of the Democrat Party, but it was a big win for women. And that's why I don't cry anymore. That's why I can sleep really well, because yes, we're going to have a really, really long battle. And it's going to take a while. But we proved that you could last in 0.7%. And the next time, it's going to be completely different.

And that's all for this week. You've been listening to Nothing is Foreign. Our producer is Joyta Sengupta. Our sound designer is Graham McDonald. And our showrunner is Adrian Chung. Nothing is Foreign is a co-production of CBC News and CBC Podcasts. Willow Smith is our senior producer. And Nick McCabe-Locos is our executive producer.

Our theme music is by Joseph Chavison. If you're a fan of Nothing is Foreign, we'd love it if you could leave us a review or a rating wherever you're listening to this. These make a big difference in helping new listeners find the show and we'd really appreciate it. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at CBC Podcasts. I'm Tamara Kandaker. Thank you so much for listening and I'll talk to you back here next week.