Front Burner - Burner phone! A trade war call-in special

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

There's been a flurry of news and uncertainty around tariffs and Canada-U.S. relations lately so we thought we'd open the floor to you in case you have any burning questions. Turns out a lot of you do!So, we took some of your questions to five incredible experts: Economist Armine Yalnizyan, CBC chief political correspondent Rosemary Barton, CBC Washington correspondent Alex Panetta, energy economist Andrew Leach and Ottawa Citizen national security reporter David Pugliese. Together, with Jayme Poisson, they parse through your concerns and queries and do their best to make sense of this moment.  For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

We have an expression in our newsroom on days when the updates won't stop coming. We say, it's like drinking from a fire hose. So if you're one of those people who needs to take a break from the news every now and then, believe me, we get it. But we've got you when it's time to dip a toe back in. Join me, John Northcott. And me, Marcia Young, for the 10 minutes of news you need to start your day. CBC's World Report. Find and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. So last week we asked you to send us your questions about the tariffs and everything

happening between Canada and the US right now. And you guys really delivered. We got so many incredible questions and messages. This is our first time doing this kind of thing and we learned a lot about you. I mean, you're listening to us from all over the place. My name is Nicholas and I'm a Canadian who's been living here in Germany for the past 12 years. Hi, my name is Streisand.

I am from Cambridge, Ontario, but I currently live in Switzerland. My name is Laura. I'm Canadian. I'm originally from Ontario, but I call Vancouver home. Even though I'm not in Canada right now, I currently live in Medellin, which is a quite a prosperous city in Colombia.

From all walks of life. I'm sitting outside of the motorcycle shop I work at here in Calgary, Alberta. I'm a mom, I'm married, I have two school-aged children, and you know, my husband and I, we don't make lots of money. We have an average income. I'm a construction worker in Toronto. I am an independent cybersecurity architect and researcher and the CTO of a startup. And some of you are feeling pretty anxious right now.

I've been spiraling. I've been trying to stick to the facts and take things day by day in this new reality reality unstable times. I think we all have lots to worry about. And if this was one thing that is actually not something we have to worry about, it would be nice to take it off our lists. So before we get to your questions, I just want to say thank you.

Honestly, so many of your messages came with kind words about the show. It means a lot to me and all of us who make this program day in and day out. You asked questions on a whole range of topics from the economy to American and Canadian politics, the energy sector and national security. We took them to five experts to get you some answers and we hope that you'll find it helpful. Also, if your question didn't specifically make the cut here, we have logged a lot of them and we're going to try to address them one way or the other in upcoming episodes. Understandably, a lot of you are worried about how tariffs are going to affect

the economy and ultimately what it's going to mean for you financially. So I'm starting with economist Armin Yalnyzian to go through this first set of questions. Armin, hi. Hiya. Great to have you. Okay, so this first one is from Chris in Ontario. She gives voice to what I think a lot of people that we've heard from are feeling and there's a lot to get out here But let's listen to her and what I'm kind of the most worried about coming into this trade war is my own

Pocket book a little bit and and whether or not I'm going to be able to continue to make ends meet And I'd be interested to know where I We're gonna be And I'd be interested to know where we're going to be economically hit first, like where as consumers, we're going to start feeling the pain first. Is it going to be at the grocery store? If we want a new car, should we buy that new car right now? But really just as consumers, thinking about investments even or planning, making financial plans for the future, what do you anticipate is coming our way?

All right, Armin, go for it. Well, Chris, your instincts are great. First things that are going to be hit are perishables, foods, because they come and they go fast and our inventory is out. It's particularly fruits and vegetables, but the good news there is there are lots of alternative sources for both. You know, there's a fun fact here.

The top of the list of 1200 consumer goods that Canada has placed retaliatory tariffs on already are turkeys. Do not buy an American turkey, but seriously. Appliances are big on this turkey, but seriously. Appliances are big on this list, but there are plenty of non-American manufacturers of appliances. Yeah, they might be a little bit more expensive.

They might be cheaper if they're made in China. But as for cars, the big three American producers, that's Ford, GM, and Stellantis, that's the new name for Chrysler, their market share has been dropping for ages. So you've got lots of opportunity to buy cars that are not American-made, but the problem is going to happen now with phase two. We are going to put retaliatory tariffs on aluminum and steel and virtually every car has some of that in them. And she was also asking about investments and planning for the future, financial plans for the future. Any advice there?

Yeah, the difficulty is that the stock market is melting down and that's affecting public pensions. It's affecting anybody that has money in the market right now. So really it's bonds, especially government-back backed bonds that are the best way to save for the future at the moment given the uncertainty in markets. Okay. Thanks for that. This next one is from Sarah in Toronto and it's a little more specific to buying certain products. If I'm going to be buying something that's partly made in America, partly made in Canada, is the 25% going to be taxed on only those parts or is the whole item going to be taxed

at 25% or is the price of everything just going to go up because of the tariffs? Dear Sarah, join the club. None of us know what is happening. So right now, the way tariffs work is every leg of the production process that crosses the border on both sides of the crossing of the border will be tariffed. So yeah, every phase will continue to add. But don't forget, this is like 25% tariffs on whatever the input is that is being imported that has a tariff on it. So not everything will jack up prices.

So we're not talking about the total price of something going up by 25% in any case, right? There's labor, there's like real estate, there's insurance, there's electricity, there's all these local costs that will not go up. But it's true that we are not 100% sure what the tariff structure is going to look like in five minutes, let alone in six months. Okay. Here is Michaela, who currently lives abroad, but she doesn't want us to know that she is

not living in the United States. She has a question about jobs. She asks, what is the potential impact of tariffs on hiring? Will some sectors be more susceptible to slowdowns or layoffs than others? How hard could it get to find a job? What a great question. And just to remind everybody, 75% of our economy, three-quarters of our economy in Canada is services, not things that get traded. Just to remind ourselves that there are 20 million people working right now and three-quarters of them work in services.

That said, we've already got a million and a half people who are unemployed, and we are looking at potentially another million people being added to that who are either trade exposed or sensitive to any downturn in trade, which will include some services. For example, if a steel plant shuts down, so might the restaurants that are around it that are servicing the workers and the businesses that are around there. So the potential impact of tariffs, first of all, will be on the things that are hit by tariffs. And really, if you remember that the game plan is to annex Canada economically, what we are looking at to be the hardest part of the market will be auto and steel. Less so aluminum though, because it affects

less of the Canadian market, but aluminum will be hit too in specific areas. We're talking about very big regional impacts of these major production plants that Donald Trump wants to see move to the United States. But even if the mostly American-owned owners say they want to move, it's not going to happen overnight. So we're looking at unemployment on both sides of the border for the foreseeable future. Yeah. And I believe Algoma Steel has already announced layoffs in Sault Ste. Marie. All right. Here's a question from Hamza in Calgary about housing costs. I work in the mortgage space and I think a lot of people have questions

about how these tariffs are going to affect housing and the cost of housing. So building a new property or the cost of, you know, existing properties that are on the market, then as well interest rates. So obviously, you know, job numbers out of the states are pretty poor, inflation is on its way up. And so just wondering how the policies in the states are going to affect our Bank of

Canada and if, you know, cuts are still expected or they're going to stay pretty conservative for now. I'm keen to hear the answer to this one. Okay, so interest rates were just cut on Wednesday by the Bank of Canada down to what they call the neutral rate, which is neither stimulative nor constraining of existing activity. So will they fall further? Nobody knows the answer to that because nobody knows which fire they are going to fight. Are they going to fight the fire of rising unemployment, which is in the cards, or are they going to fight the fire of rising generalized rising prices, which is inflation?

That's also in the cards. So we don't know how they're going to go, whether they're going to raise, lower, or maintain lending rates based on an overnight rate that is very, very low, historically speaking, 2.75%. That should help real estate agents, but the problem is if unemployment rises too fast, then the prices of housing will fall and so will the buyers for what's available in the market. So we've got a lot of moving balls all affecting the real estate market at the same time. Armin, this was great. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. My pleasure. I'm Nicola Coughlin and this is History's Youngest Heroes, Terry Fox's Marathon of

Hope. I think of home a lot. I think of running into Vancouver and running into where I'm going to finish on the ocean and all you've got to do is take another step and keep on going. He planned to run 5,300 miles across the second largest country in the world. Makes you believe in the human race again. Join me, Nicola Coughlin, for history's youngest heroes, wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's do politics now. And who better than CBC's chief political correspondent,

Rosemary Barton, to answer a few of them in between covering the barrage of news this week. Hey, Rosie. Hi, Jamie. Happy to be here. All right. This first one is from Katie in Edmonton. Though we are trying not to panic, I think there's many Canadians that are wondering how realistic this annexing situation is. I have been spiraling, but I would like to understand what would actually have to happen for the United States to annex Canada?

And what would warning signs be that those steps were being taken or an actual plan to annex Canada was being implemented. Yeah, this annexing situation, as Katie from Edmonton says, is obviously deeply troubling and kind of scary for a lot of Canadians. I think we have to look at two things, what Donald Trump is saying and how our politicians are taking those threats. The first is that Donald Trump is saying that he obviously wants Canada to become the 51st state. He is doing things to our economy that are meant to destroy the Canadian economy

and saying that Canada would be better off militarily and economically if it became part of the United States. He has pointed to the border between Canada and the US that was set centuries ago as an artificial line of separation. So those are all real things that he is saying. And there are things that Canadians and Canadian politicians are taking very seriously. It was the, it was prime minister Trudeau, who first said that he believes Donald Trump wants economic collapse to lead to annexation. But other politicians, Pierre Pauli of ministers have said all those things as well. I don't think annexing means military invasion. There's

no sign from anything Trump is saying or those around him that that's what he is talking about. But he is talking about tightening the screws economically to the point where Canada sees no path forward as a sovereign nation. And indeed, all the measures that the government is currently taking are to push back against that. So I think it's right to worry. It's right to be aware of it. But I don't see any sign that the Canadian economy and the country as a whole is going to give in to these threats. And this next one comes to us from Josh in Winnipeg. Jessica from Sudbury asks us too.

I'm wondering if Trudeau or any other potential prime ministers have mentioned what they plan to do with the funds they receive through these reciprocal tariffs. You know, could they be used to help out Canadians whose jobs are affected by Trump's tariffs? I think that would send a really clear message of Canadian solidarity, using our tariffs to help our workers, as opposed to Trump, who one can assume is just going to use his tariffs to fund tax cuts for the extremely wealthy. This one is actually pretty easy. All party leaders have said that they will use the revenue from counter tariffs to help Canadians.

Pierre Poilieff has specifically said the money would be given to the hardest hit workers. Liberals say the same, that this is money that would be used to support workers and industries. But to be clear, counter tariffs on American products will hurt Canadians. It'll hurt Canadians if you can't find a Canadian alternative that is. So that is why the government is trying to be as surgical as possible in terms of what it taxes from the United States. But yeah, all that money that's going to be collected from that should, according to all of the leaders at this stage, go back to Canadians in some way, whether it's workers in particular,

sectors in particular, or maybe some sort of broad-based support if we get to that point. Here's something we've been hearing a lot lately, intra-provincial trade barriers. I'll let Corinne from Burnaby take it from here. I keep hearing all about these interprovincial trade barriers, but I don't know enough about it and I don't understand what the restrictions are. And it seems crazy to me that we've been operating up till now with all these restrictions in place between provinces and territories. Can you explain what exactly

these restrictions are and why are they finally being lifted now once Trump is threatening our sovereignty? Why didn't we do this before? Inter-provincial trade barriers. I mean, this has been something that I have covered for more than 20 years as a political reporter. they have always been a source of frustration and criticism for politicians. Not something I think that Canadians sit around and talk about until now, because it does really seem like for the first time this country and the provinces are taking this pretty seriously. Essentially, because we have 13 provinces and territories, there are 13 different tax systems, 13 different spending

plans, 13 different sets of regulations about everything from tires to labor mobility. And that makes things very difficult to move things and people back and forth across the country. Estimates are that if we got rid of all of this, all these internal trade barriers, that it could pump as much as $245 billion into the economy. So there's obviously an advantage to doing this. The challenge has been with this issue that provinces want to find an ability to regulate inside their provinces. They want to keep that power, But they also know that they want to open up the country for more trade. So it seems like alcohol is sort of the first barrier to fall. They're

moving pretty rapidly on that front. But provinces also trying to do things on other fronts as well, including labor mobility. This is the first time I have ever seen a real desire to make this happen because it would help protect us in the face of more tariffs from the United States. Okay, Kieran from Calgary has a question about Kanzak, essentially a new bloc with Canada and a few other Commonwealth nations. Frank from Greenfield Park, Quebec asked about this too. So here's what Kieran says. Considering the current global economic landscape, including the impacts of tariffs imposed by

Trump and the ongoing trade tensions in general, should Canada, Australia, the UK and New Zealand explore forming a supranational organization similar to the European Union? Could such a union in response to these challenges provide enough economic strength to act as a counterbalance to the major powers like China, Russia, or the US? And would it even be politically feasible considering the diverse domestic and political landscapes and potential public resistance within each country? This is a really good question. It is being looked at. It's something called CANZUK. So Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. One of the proponents of this idea is

the former conservative leader, Aaron O'Toole. He talked to my colleague, JP Tasker, who wrote a really good piece about this. And he said, with the US pulling back, there should be a strong drive to get Kansak done. The other good democratic countries need to step up and fill the void to give you an idea of what it would be or what it would look like. Those four countries combined have a combined GDP of $6.5 trillion and combined would have the world's third largest military force. So there's massive advantage in having some agreement between those countries. There have though been trade challenges. New Zealand has taken Canada to a trade tribunal over our dairy. So it's maybe not going to be as easy as we think, but there was a huge Canadian trade delegation that was

in Australia in February. Certainly the British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, has talked about the need to deepen the relationship between Canada and the UK. If there's something that can be done within these four countries, Canada is working on it. But to be clear, it would help Canada to be in a better position with a trade, because of the trade war in the US, but it wouldn't be enough to replace American trade. And of course, the fact that we are the neighbor of the United States complicates this this further. But this is part of a conversation about a realignment on foreign policy on security and on trade that trade that is happening and is live and real. Thanks so much, Rosie. Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Okay, from Ottawa now to Washington, we are bringing in our correspondent there, Alex Panetta. If you listen to the show often, you know him well. He's going to take some

of your America specific questions. Hi, Alex. How's it going? Ah, it's going great. I would ask you how it's going, but I would I think I know the answer. All right. This first question here is from Diane, which is basically about the American system and why Trump is able to operate the way that he does. It's similar to one we received from Elaine in Pen Quebec. She asks, can you explain the US government system, in particular, why the president and elected representatives don't have to address any questions in Congress or Senate from the opposition party, the Democrats.

It's so odd to me that he has never directly challenged and has to answer specific questions. I think by he, she means Donald Trump. Okay, over to you, Alex. Sure. So to answer your question, we need to turn back time to the summer of 1787. A bunch of old guys in white wigs gathered in Philadelphia to design a constitution for a new republic. And this is a generation that abhorred the British crown, the monarchy. And so it was very determined to avoid a system like the one we know in Ottawa, Westminster system, which I personally believe is a very good system,

but they did not, they had just fought a revolution against it and we're looking to ancient Rome, to the Roman Republic as their inspiration. And that system relied on different sources of power to check each other. So in the Republican system of government, you don't have the opposition getting up every day to ask questions of the executive branch of government, because the executive branch is not present in the Congress. The idea is you separate powers. You have the executive branch led out of the White House on one end of Pennsylvania Avenue.

And that branch is supposed to be resisted, fought by the legislative branch on Capitol Hill, down the street. They don't exist in the same place. You know, if the Americans had the same political system that we do, the leader of the party with a majority in the House would be president. And Mike Johnson would be president now.

A few years ago, Nancy Pelosi would have been president, but they are not. The president is elected independently. And so the founders figured they were designing a system where ambition would check ambition. This was, this is their choice of words that basically the Congress would say, no, this is wrong. This is the law as we interpret it. And the president would try to, to, you know to push for additional power, but the Congress would check him. In a way, that system has worked to a certain extent, but it's gotten distorted over time on a few different issues in a few areas. First of all, because the American political system has gotten a lot more polarized, Republicans

don't tend to challenge Trump anymore on an issue like tariffs. They're scared of challenging Trump because he's kind of like their party leader. So in a way you're getting like you know the worst of the parliamentary system but you know but it's not the way it was supposed to work. They weren't supposed to answer to the president. They weren't supposed to be scared of the president. They're supposed to be telling him no the buck stops here you're not going to impose tariffs and here's why. So the second reason that the system is not quite working as designed is over time, the US Congress delegated its power

over tariffs, right? After the Great Depression, the smooth Holly tariffs, which many people believe made the Great Depression worse, Congress passed a couple of laws after the depression, after World War II, essentially giving the president power to declare tariffs because I think there was a general widespread belief that Congress was very parochial. They were representing their own districts, their own industries, and they figured the president would wield this power more responsibly. And the president was given the power to invoke tariffs when there was a national security justification for doing so. Thank you for that wonderful history lesson.

Now we have a bit of a fact check for you here from Matt in Ontario. With all the talk about tariffs happening these days, is it true that Canada has been charging the United States tariffs for years? I've heard this over and over again and I cannot find much information online to justify these claims. You know why you can't find that information online? Because it's mostly a crock. All right, now here's this thing, there's this viral meme going around TikTok and Twitter and it's being spread and in such a pernicious way, it's even hard to debunk because the list changes, right? But there's this viral list, okay, and different variations of it going around where the top half of the list contains a kernel of truth. Basically,

Canada has tariffs on dairy and poultry products. I say it's a kernel of truth because Canada has a supply management system where there would be tariffs if the United States exported anything beyond a certain level of dairy and poultry and eggs. Apparently hasn't even reached that limit so they don't even pay those tariffs. So that's why I say it's a kernel of truth, but it's not really true. And the rest of that list, and Canada charges like a hundred percent tariffs on cars and steel. This is absolutely made up. So it's mostly fake, that list that you're seeing floating around social media. Okay. Here's one for you. We got a lot of messages from Canadians living in the US, like Cory in California and Megan, who moved down there for school. Here is Em from Brooklyn.

I grew up in the Greater Toronto area, but I've been living in the United States for the past seven years. I was never that patriotic growing up, but this showdown between the United States and Canada has got me feeling some type of way. As an expat, what can I do to support Canada in these uncertain times? Should I move back? Should I buy more Canadian products? Should I write angry letters to my congressional representatives? Alex, you are actually a really good person to tackle this since you are a Canadian.

So, you know, while I've been living here for years, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about how to lobby Americans. But I would say, you know, I think a lot of Canadians are trying to take their holidays in Canada this year. A lot of people are trying to raise awareness when they see something that's untrue, that's stated online, like this canard about Canada having all these tariffs on the United States. So maybe just challenging things that are untrue when you see

them. That's about the best advice I could offer. Okay. Alex, that was great. Thank you for taking the time. I know you're super busy down there, so we appreciate it. Thank you for having me. All right, next up I have Andrew Leach here with me. Hi, Andrew. Hi, thanks for having me. It's great to have you. So Andrew is an energy and environmental economist and a professor at the University of Alberta. A few of you had questions having to do with oil and gas and electricity, so let's run through them.

Okay, the first one is from Megan and it's about who controls energy exports, the provinces or the feds. Daniel Smith has talked about not allowing us to stop oil exports, but Doug Ford has talked about how energy exports are ultimately the purview of the federal government. So who is responsible for that and could they force the provinces to stop? Trade is federal. So we can definitely see federal government policy that restricts exports, that places tariffs on exports,

et cetera. And actually, provinces historically have been very limited in what the courts will permit in terms of anything that affects international trade. And so the decision does lie with the federal government. That doesn't mean they're going to do so unilaterally. I think politically that would be challenging. But from a purely legal perspective, the power lies with the federal government. Right. The idea here being that if the federal government decided to stop oil exports to the US, the blowback from Alberta, for example, would be pretty intense. Well, and certainly a lot of our oil exports or a lot of our pipeline capacity that feeds Ontario and Quebec runs through the United States. So there are some logistical challenges there.

And I think the most likely thing if we were to physically restrict oil exports to the US, I think it would be a matter of hours before you saw flows on those pipelines that move through the Great Lakes states and into southern Ontario face similar restrictions. This is a question that's come up a few times, including from Jean-Philippe in Vancouver, but here is Isabelle in Vancouver. In your conversation with Minister Wilkinson, he talked about the importance of a more resilient economy, and you talked about whether an east-west pipeline is an option. What I'm not hearing anyone talk about is why and if Canada should be building our own

refineries and mills so that we can add our own value to our resources, create jobs, and then diversify who we can sell those value-added resources and commodities to. Great question, Isabel. Yes, we've had this conversation around refining for a long time, and I think people expect that a lot of the profit margin from oil and gas extraction is somehow closer to the end consumer, as it might be for something like lumber,

you know, there's higher profit margins in furniture as it might be for something like lumber, this high profit margins in furniture than there might be in stumpage, for example. That's not true in oil and gas. The profit margins, the value, et cetera, addition is at the production side because that's what's scarce. You can build a refinery anywhere in the world. And so the profit margins tend to be much, much lower

for that quote unquote value added or more intense processing. So we have refineries to meet our own demands right now. We're very small net exporters of refined products with a little bit of regional difference. So building more refineries would probably involve not us, you know, magically earning much more revenue from our resources, but actually involve us taking a discount on our resources or subsidizing the production of fossil fuels, refined products that we don't

need and that importantly, the US doesn't need. And so we'd still be looking for other markets, pipelines, etc. to move those products offshore. So as an economic strategy, I think it'd be deeply flawed. Final question. This is from Ulrich in Paisley, Ontario. He asks, essentially, if tariffs on electricity are hitting democratic states, is that actually a pain point for the Republicans and for the president?

It's a good question. And I know we've seen this on other files as well, where the president likes to turn this against the democratic governors and democratic administrations in cities or states in the US. We saw a little bit of this as President Trump reacted to Doug Ford's measures, where he said, first of all, okay, we're going to hit Ontario back with tariffs on steel and aluminum, but then he also said subsequently, why are we relying on Canada for our electricity anyway? And so I think there's a little bit in there of at least some sense of, yeah, we're going to declare an emergency, but that emergency is going to be you states that are dependent

on Canada that have been standing in the way of local infrastructure, whatever the case may be, I'm going to find ways to sort of lever that as partly a you problem, not just a Canada problem. Andrew, thank you for this. We are very appreciative. Thanks. That was fun. All right. So our last set of questions have to do with national security, something that you might be thinking a lot more about now than you ever thought you would.

So we're bringing in David Puglase, a longtime military and defense reporter at the Ottawa Citizen. David, hey, thank you so much for doing this. No, great to be here. Thank you. So first, a question from Casey in Toronto about the border. Trump keeps talking about Canada making our border more secure. But my understanding is that we don't stop people from leaving Canada. And when you're leaving leaving Canada the only checkpoint you go through is to enter the US and by the time you get to the the US customs you're already in the United States you're not in Canada anymore so can you

help clear this up for me how and why would the Canadian government have the power or even a mandate to affect the flow of people and things leaving Canada. All right, you want to give that a shot? Sure. So what Trump is talking about is that, you know, drug smuggling, illegals crossing the border, he's claiming that fentanyl, Canada is a big source of fentanyl for coming into the US and such. But what Canada has done is your listener is correct.

The US border customs has the job to examine baggage, examine the people coming in. But what Trump is talking about is people illegally doing this smuggling and such. And so Canada has responded by the RCMP of least Blackhawk helicopters that are patrolling the border areas. They've increased numbers of personnel. You know, internally we've got police cracking down on drug dealers, on fentanyl. But again, you know, the Canadian government has pointed out that this so-called fentanyl crisis that Trump talks about is just a pretext for

Trump's new tariffs. Okay. Ken from Listerwell, Ontario has a question about military procurement, specifically stuff that we get from the US. I'm wondering about the wisdom in purchasing American equipment at this point. For instance, the F-35s, when Donald Trump is allegedly disabling high Mars in Ukraine, as crazy as it sounds that such a thing would happen. I mean, look where we've come in these last three months. Okay.

That is an excellent question. So it is. Hey, that wasn't your question. And so this is the same type of question that's being asked around the world, the European allies in Canada as well. So for instance, the F-35 fighter jet, which we're buying from the Americans at $19 billion, um, if they cut off, um, the software, if they cut off the supply of parts, those planes will not be flying. And as your listener pointed out, you know, before Trump came along, then no one was talking about this,

but we have a very erratic president in charge. And so this is a concern that is floating around, uh, official Ottawa. All right. And David, thanks for your time today. I have a one final question for you. And this is from Douglas from BC. He, he has a question that we have actually been talking about, uh, here at front burner. This was a question that also came from Graham in Toronto.

And Douglas asks, assuming for a moment that the true intention of the Trump administration is to take us over, how far should we go before we seriously poke the bear, resulting in a military response from the U.S.? For example, if we cut off electricity to some states, cut off petroleum exports entirely, and or stop any collaboration on water management, When is too far prompting a military response against us ending in effect our sovereignty? So that's a terrifying question. But one that I think a lot of Canadians are asking. We have in normal course of events, these types of things would be negotiated through diplomatic means.

We are not in normal times. And so, to answer your question, what is too far? I guess the only person that can answer that is Donald Trump. And he seems to be all over the place. But this opens up a dialogue that we should be having for the future. America is going to need critical minerals. America is going to need our water. It's running out of water in the southern states,

particularly Arizona and such. And so what will the future be like? And will an American government be in the mood for diplomatic negotiations over things like that or will they just take what they want? Okay, David, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. So before we go, just one more and honestly, I don't even know if we can answer it, but it really does capture the vibe.

I think that a lot of people are feeling right now. My name is Jamal. I'm from Ottawa and I'm 27. My question revolves around Trump's proposed tariffs and his associated threat of annexing Canada. I'm wondering how bad things could get or potentially would have to get if the tariffs are prolonged Before joining the US becomes our only option lately. We've seen a reinvigoration of our national pride, which we weren't necessarily known for before Certainly not to the extent of the US is but I wonder if that's enough for us to be willing to cope with the consequences

And to wait them out. Thanks a lot and I love the show Jamal how bad can this get is a question that comes up a lot in our story meetings. And like I said, it's a tough one to answer. But look, what I will say is this, we are definitely not there yet. And so far, there has been a lot of walking back from the Trump administration, lots of extensions on tariffs, pulling back on escalations. I know it's a lot out there right now, but also there are many scenarios

where this calms way down even relatively soon. I hope that that was helpful. That's it for today. Thanks again to all of you for sending in your questions and apologies if we didn't get to yours. We will endeavor to do that in the coming weeks. All right, talk to you tomorrow.