Front Burner - Can Trump’s peace plan help end the war in Gaza?

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Indirect talks between Hamas and Israel in Egypt are underway, with the goal of reaching an agreement on the first phase of U.S. President Donald Trump’s Gaza proposed peace plan. It would see the release of all remaining Israeli hostages by Hamas and potentially, over a thousand Palestinians detained by Israel as well as a ceasefire. The overall plan aims to end the war altogether.But after previous hostage exchanges and ceasefires have failed to bring a permanent end to the war, what’s different this time? Are they any closer to peace?William Christou, a freelance journalist working for The Guardian currently in Jerusalem, joins Jayme Poissonto parse through Trump’s plan, the talks so far and how people in Israel and Gaza are reacting to it all.We'd love to hear from you! Complete our listener survey here.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

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you're following us on your podcasting app of choice is the best way to make sure you catch every episode. Okay, here is today's episode. Hamas and Israel enter their second day of indirect. talks today with the goal of reaching an agreement on the first phase of Donald Trump's Gaza peace plan. It would see the release of all remaining Israeli hostages by Hamas and potentially over a thousand Palestinians detained by Israel as well as a ceasefire. The overall plan aims to end the war altogether. Today marks two years since Hamas led an attack on Israel, killing

around 1,200 people and taking 251 hostages back to Gaza. That set off Israel. That set off Israel's retaliatory military campaign in Gaza, killing over 67,000 people, according to Palestinian health authorities. A growing number of experts and organizations have called it a genocide. And after previous hostage exchanges and ceasefires have failed to bring a permanent end to the war, what's different this time around? Are they any closer to peace? To parse through Trump's plan, the talk so far in how people in Israel and Gaza are feeling, I am joined today by William Christu, a freelance journalist working for the Guardian currently in Jerusalem. Just to time stamp this, in case there are any developments, we spoke to him at around 2 p.m.

Eastern on Monday, which is 9 p.m. in Egypt, where the talks are taking place. William, hey, thank you so much for making the time. Thanks for having me. So there continues to be a number of protests calling for the return of the hostages and an end to the war. In Israel recently, you've been in Jerusalem. what have people been telling you there, especially as it was nearing the two-year mark since October 7th? Yeah, the majority of people in Israel want this war to be over, and then they've wanted it to be over for a while now. Poling shows that, and also when you just walk down the street, that's the sentiment you get.

Saturday night, there is a rally at the hostage square in Tel Aviv to mark the two-year anniversary of the war, and also to push the Netanyahu government to be serious about this round of negotiations that are happening in Egypt. When we've heard the news from President Trump on Friday evening, we were very emotional and excited about the potential upcoming release of all of our brothers and sisters from captivity in Gaza. So we've decided to join our forces, come to Hostages Square,

and gather in praying for that moment to finally come after, so, so many days of captivity. And I was talking to people there, and every single person I spoke to said that hostages should have come home a long time ago, but that they're hoping that this current round of negotiations and this peace plan will be the one that brings them back. How are people in Israel, the people that you're talking to in Israel, feeling about Nanyahu in particular right now, and what a potential deal could mean for his coalition government. Yeah, there's a lot of negativity around Netanyahu within Israel.

It's a shame, you know. We have a prime minister that I shame of him. He doesn't want to bring our son back home. He's seen, he's a very divisive figure. And it's particularly negative when it comes to the crowd that wants the war to end. They see Netanyahu as having placed his own interests above the interests of the country. They accuse him of elongating the war in order to avoid the corruption trial that he faces and also to hold together his pretty fragile coalition of far right-wing ministers. And this deal, this potential deal,

what could it mean for that coalition? It's hard to say. You know, I think what has become abundantly clear is that the person that holds the power in the room right now is not Nanyahu but Trump. and even his far right-wing partners, like the firebrand, Ben-Givir and Smotrich, the finance minister, have respected that so far. You know, Ben-Govir and Smot-Ritch in the past have threatened to quit the government if there's any prospect of a ceasefire. This time around, they said, we will quit the government if Hamas remains after the hostages are released, which means they're indulging at least ceasefire negotiations that are happening.

They're waiting and seeing. I want to come back to this with you, but first, leading up to these talks that started Monday evening in Egypt, people in Gaza are still facing a lot of the same conditions they have for a long, long time now, airstrikes, attacks on aid seekers, hunger. And they've seen so many of these talks fall through now. And the humanitarian crisis has deepened significantly with famine setting in in recent months. Do you have any sense of how people there are feeling about this potential deal? I think there's cautious optimism. We remain steadfast until now, and we wish that Hamas' acceptance

will stop Palestinian bleeding. They're not under any false delusions. They know that this could collapse. They've been here before, like you said. There's been promises from Trump before that a deal was days away only for toxic collapse. But this time feels different. We slept well last night on the good news.

Here in the north, we have suffered relentless bombardment and starvation. We were all happy to hear the positive response. It seems like this has a real chance of achieving an end to the war. And they're desperately, desperately hoping that that is the case. Because over the past two years, everyone in Gaza has not only lost someone, but many people have lost dozens of members of their family. everyone, almost everyone has been displaced multiple times and the Gaza Strip has been reduced to ruin

and so regardless of politics people just want to be able to breathe and they want a little break in this war Can you take in this war make me through why people are saying that this is the closest that we've gotten to a deal that could end the war in Gaza? Like, what is it about this 20-point peace plan that the Trump administration has put forward? Essentially, because it gives very little room for the Israelis to sort of wriggle out of negotiations. And there's been many points where the Israelis have

pinned the blame on Hamas for a collapse in the... in ceasefire talks, and then the war continued. But this time around, the plan that was given by Trump is widely seen as deeply unfavorable to Hamas. You know, the group has to give up any governing role in the strip. They're disarming. They give up all of the hostages, which is their main source of leverage going forward. But despite that, they've conditionally agreed to it.

So now, you know, the Israelis cannot say that they don't want to enter into negotiations. And so that with the enthusiasm, U.S. President Donald Trump has really made a lot of people feel in Gaza and in Israel, like, that this time feels more possible than any time in the past. Right. I know they've conditionally agreed to these three points, right? The requirement that they release all the remaining hostages, both dead and alive. They said that they would need to discuss the rest alongside other Palestinian parties as well as a collective national stance. But just. Why are they agreeing to this now, you think? Yeah, and I think that's an important point, right? Because they agreed to three points out of 20, which usually, you know, if that was a test, that would be a failing grade. Usually people would see that as a rejection. But I think they did it in a very smart sort of Trumpian way.

They thought about the way that Trump thinks. And they knew that for Trump, the big, shiny thing is the release of the hostages. So they put that up front. And for Trump, that was enough to say that that, that, peace could be possible and that Israel should stop firing in the Gaza Strip. So I think, you know, the host of the fact that Hamas agreed to release all the hostages has made Trump say, okay, we can figure out the details later. And if you look at the way that negotiations are happening, you know, the first phase

is figuring out that release of hostages before all the other details. And just why do you think they agreed to release the hostages? You know, you just mentioned that this is their one big piece of leverage. Why do that now? I think it's two things. The first is that they've been really pushed, this proposal really pushed them into a corner because it came after mediation

with a bunch of Arab and Muslim leaders across the world. It was welcomed by pretty much everyone, including Qatar and Egypt, who's mediating peace talks. So if they rejected the plan, they knew that negotiations would not come until much later date and who knew, you know, who knows who would still be around at that point. And also, it comes as Israel's launching its offense to Van Gaza City, which the group desperately doesn't want to happen.

And almost immediately when they accepted it, Israel announced under pressure from Trump that they'd be suspending it. Is there a sense of how much time Hamas will be given to follow through on what they've agreed to? So the deal says they have 72 hours to give back all the hostages. They've already said that that's probably not going to be possible because those hostages buried under rubble, you know, the Gaza Strip is hard to move around, some might be held by different factions, and Trump seems to be a bit lenient on that. But besides that, it seems like the talks will progress in such a way that it will become apparent in a few days, whether or not it really has some motion if it's going to lead to peace. You know, Netanyahu said that

He expects him to be over in a couple of days. Trump said he wants the hostages to be released within a week. So I think if either side feels as if the negotiations aren't being taken seriously, they might withdraw their negotiators. The plan demands that Hamas disarm and that they have no rule in governments over Gaza, both things that they've objected to in the past. Do we have a sense right now of where they stand on those two friends? Not really. Big sticking points, yeah. Yeah, not small things.

And that's the thing about the way they responded, right? They said, okay, we're at least all hostages, which is new. We'll surrender power to a Palestinian technocratic government, which is not what Trump asked for. He asked for an international one, but he overlooked that. But then essentially the rest of their response on Friday has been the same as their points over the past two years. They didn't say yes to disarming.

They didn't agree to the other point. that they've objected to in the past. So it's not clear at all what it means when they say. It seems like there's two different versions of reality right now that are going on. For Hamas and their allies, they haven't said yes to disarming, and it seems unclear whether or not they will actually agree to language that is full disarmament.

But then on the Trump side, it seems like they're existing in a reality in which Hamas has agreed to the main points of the plan, and then everything else will come, including disarmament. For Israel's part, the plan calls for them to, you know, withdraw troops from the Gaza Strip. And according to Hebrew language media in the times of Israel, Netanyahu told a right-wing group representing families of IDF soldiers that he will not agree to any other points in the plan

until all the hostages are returned. But if all the Israeli hostages are released and returned by Hamas, what incentive is there for Israel to cooperate with the rest of the plan, including withdrawal of IDF troops from Gaza? That's a really good question. And I think that's the question that Hamas is going to be bosing to Israeli negotiators.

Because you're right, the hostages are the leverage that Hamas has. You know, they've said in the run-up to the Gaza City offensive, they said, you know, your hostages are there. You might not want to be bombing Gaza City. And that's what they're afraid of, is that if they turn over the hostages, there's nothing restraining Israel.

What we know in terms of what's happening in the negotiations now is that there's an initial withdrawal line that Trump has drafted up. And the Israelis have agreed to it. Hamas has not agreed to it yet. And now we step one in withdrawal. But it's still quite deep within Gaza. I mean, at some points, it's 6.5 kilometers deep into the territory. But I know there's a lot of distrust on the Hamas side that after they give up the hostages that Israel will respect the withdrawal agreement. and that's exacerbated by the fact that quite publicly Netanyahu is saying we won't leave.

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and the ordinary people who made history. This is David and Goliath we have here. Find and follow C.U. in court wherever you get your podcasts. What do you think Trump's going to do here? Like, there's been reporting, Trump's patience with this conflict has continued to wear thin and that he has strong-armed Netanyahu into re-entering ceasefire talks. And what have you heard about how that's played out? What do you think we can expect from the Americans moving forward here?

There's been a few times where we've been reminded that Trump is the only person that can control Netanyahu. The first was when he immediately entered office and sent Wittkov to Israel to force a ceasefire. Rebuilding Gaza is meant to be phase three of this tenuous ceasefire and the new U.S. administration's envoy Steve Whitkoff came to ensure both sides get that far. He met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and in a rare move for a U.S. official, he visited Gaza, including the strategic Netserim corridor

where half a million people have passed through on their way north this week. And that was in January and reportedly, you know, when Wittkoff told the Israeli counterparts that he was coming to Israel. They said, oh, but it's Shabbat. And he said, I don't give a fuck about Shabbat. And then the ceasefire happened. And we're seeing now that Trump is again forcing it.

Because apparently, or reportedly, then Yahoo's reaction to the Hamas, partial acceptance of the deal was, this is a rejection. And then after a call with Trump, who told him plainly, you have to go on board. He changed his tone.

What do you think Trump's intentions are with this plan? Is it as plain as his pursuit of a Nobel Peace Prize, which an Israeli advocacy group nominated him for a group representing some of the families of the hostages? He has previously proposed turning the Gaza Strip into a U.S.-owned resort-filled Riviera. We have an opportunity to do something that could be phenomenal. And I don't want to be cute. I don't want to be a wise guy, but the Riviera of the Middle East, this could be something that could be so magnificent. Does this current plan mean that he no longer wants that?

It's a good question to try to understand the Trump's mind. But I think, you know, he's all about the big victories. He's all about the deals. And we've seen throughout his second term, he's very big into mediating deals. You know, he claimed credit for the India-Pakistan ceasefire, which apparently pissed off the Indian Prime Minister Modi. On Saturday, my administration helped broker a full. and immediate ceasefire, I think a permanent one,

between India and Pakistan ending a dangerous conflict of two nations with lots of nuclear weapons. He's just claimed credit for some peace accord between Armenia and Azerbaijan. It's a long time, 35 years. They fought, and now they're friends, and they're going to be friends for a long time. But it's a big, beautiful honor

to welcome everyone to the White House for this very historic peace summit between Armenia and Azerbashan. It's really a great thrill for me. I love seeing good people get together, and that's what you have. You have two great leaders. He really likes making those deals.

And I think one of the biggest deals he could make besides Ukraine is peace in Gaza. And if you look at the way that he is affirming it, you know he said we haven't had peace like this in 3,000 years which isn't true but it's like very typical Trump and also there's no there's no peace yeah there's no peace there's no peace and also this isn't a peace plan they call it a peace plan but you know Palestinians in Gaza who are desperate

just for the bombing to stop you know they say we want this because it's an end to the fighting and whatever it takes we want an end to the fighting but they're not you know they're not unaware that this is not a path to self-determination nation or that they think this will guarantee long-term safety. No, they just think this will stop the bombing. So I don't think there's any delusions about that. I think this is a remarkably vague plan. It's 20 points long to end an incredibly complex two-year-long conflict. And so it seems like it's something that Trump is just trying to ram through. And you can see the way that they're

approaching the negotiations, you know, he saw the words release the hostages in the response and immediately accidentally tweeted the text of the Hamas response. So I think there's a lot of excitement on ending this war from the Trump administration. But now once you enter into negotiations again, they're going to be hit with the reality of how difficult it is to bridge these gaps that still very much exists. Right. I heard, you know, one kind of take on it that Hamas answered with yes, but, and Trump only heard the yes. Before you go, I want to talk a little bit more about, you know, parts of the plan that we haven't spent a lot of time on yet, which is essentially the rebuilding process, right? and how that could work.

A handful of Western nations, including Canada, recently joined a growing call to recognize a Palestinian state. And we offer our full partnership in building the promise of a peaceful future for both the state of Palestine and the state of Israel. Egyptian President Abdul Fata al-Ci reiterated on Monday that lasting peace in the Middle East will not be reached unless a Palestinian state is created based on the principles of international legitimacy.

What did the talk so far tell us about whether we are any closer to this happening and whether any of the international recognitions from the past month have moved the needle at all? George's Palestinian state? Yes. I think at this point, you know, it's purely symbolic. You know, there's some irony around recognizing a Palestinian state while part of it is getting erased.

And what, you know, what's being carried out, according to many human rights bodies and the UN Commission inquiry is genocide in the Palestinian territory. And I think, you know, a lot of Palestinians we spoke to when they reacted, when they saw that news, the way they reacted was sort of, this is a bit a little too late. But with that being said, the deal or the Trump plan contains very vague language. It kind of has a token gesture, lip service to a pathway. to Palestinian statehood sometime in the future. Sort of vague, wishy-washy language. And I think that's to sort of appease some of the Arab world and Palestinian, so at least it's mentioned, but also make it vague enough and weak enough

that it wouldn't push the right-wing members of Netanyahu's coalition to quit the government. So it's a very weak middle ground and not a route to self-determination by any means. and the fact that they're bringing in what Trump's calling, what, the Trump Peace Board, headed potentially by Trump and Tony Blair, you know, that doesn't sound like traditional notions of sovereignty. Yes, and also not something that Hamas has agreed to either, right? I believe they've agreed to give up power to a technocratic Palestinian committee, but they have not agreed to this Board of Peace headed by Donald Trump and Blair. the announcement that Tony Blair would be part of this board immediately raised, you know, all sorts of consternation. And just tell me a little bit briefly about why, why that would. Yeah, I think, you know, the inclusion of Tony Blair and the Trump Peace Board in general, I think has really raised some alarms because it's part of Trump's almost like glib approach to the Gaza Strip. I mean, you remember in February, he promised a Gaza Riviera where currently there's rubble, ruin, and dead bodies in Gaza.

And he did so by sharing a weird AI video, which featured bearded ballet dancers. And then later we found them reporting that the Tony Blair Institute was working with consultants like the Boston consultants to draft up a plan to potentially displace the Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and turn the strip into some glitzy sort of. Riviera's scenario. And while, you know, the words Gaza-Riviera don't appear in the Trump plan, there seems to be a nod to that. And also sort of a troubling, Marie's troubling questions about why he would pick someone like Tony Blair, who seems to have very little qualification to run somewhere like Gaza without asking the Palestinian people.

Final question, and just something I want to touch on with you before we go. on Monday Israel deported around 171 of the activists that were trying to sail to Gaza with aid and medical supplies as part of the Summa Flotilla. Swedish climate activist Greta Tinberg was one of them. Some of them have been speaking out about alleged abuse that they face while in Israeli custody and what have we been hearing from them. Yeah. So what activists said and the Guardian actually reported on some of this was that they were kept in pretty poor conditions.

Greta Thumburg in particular, you know, it was said that she was staying in a cell with bedbugs, that she was forced to pose and take pictures within Israeli flag, and other members of the Flotilla said that she was beaten upon her arrest. It is a shame. And I could talk for a very, very long time about our mistreatment and abuses in our imprisonment. Trust me, but that is not the story. What happened here was that Israel, while continuing to worsen and escalate their genocide and mass destruction with genocidal intent, attempting to erase an entire population, an entire nation in front of our very eyes, they once again violated international law by preventing humanitarian aid from getting into Gaza while people are being starved. And the Israelis deny all this.

But within Israel itself, there's been some gloating over the arrest of these flotilla activists. You know, Ben Gavir visited them as they were held on the ground in detainment and called them terrorists and yelled at them. And then he tore it in a video of the cell, the prison that they were taken to, which is meant typically for what Israel deems terrorists, not for activists who were engaging in nonviolent religious. resistance. And so, you know, it seems like so far, based on the claims, which Israel benignes, but based on the claims, it goes against the agreement that Israel gave to countries like Italy that they wouldn't mistreat activists that they arrested. William, thank you so much for this. For sure. Thanks for having me on. today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you tomorrow.