Front Burner - Climate change divides Conservatives as election looms

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

Erin O’Toole said he wants the Conservative Party to change at his first policy convention as leader, but is everyone on board? Senior Parliament Hill reporter Hannah Thibedeau explains.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. We all want a green future for our children. We cannot ignore the reality of climate change. The debate is over.

So declared Conservative leader Erin O'Toole at the party's convention. Then just over half the party's delegates voted against a motion declaring exactly that. Today, Aaron O'Toole's first conservative convention as leader, what it reveals about the rifts in the party's base and the problems this presents for a party that hopes to win the next election. My colleague Hannah Thibodeau has been watching the virtual convention all weekend. Hi, Hannah. Thanks so much for being here. Hey, thanks for having me. It's great to have you back. So as I mentioned, this was Aaron O'Toole's first conservative convention as leader. And Vashi and I talked about this last week. He's not doing great in the polls going into this. The conservatives in general are trailing the

liberals and O'Toole's own favorables are not so hot either. So he's got a couple of problems on his plate. And what are they broadly? Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, for all of us, trouble seems to come in threes. And Aaron O'Toole went into this convention with really a trio of problems, big ones anyway. His own party admits he's not well known six months into the job. And in fact, they even have commercials out saying exactly that. I'm Aaron O'Toole. If you don't know me, I'm the leader of Canada's Conservatives. To find out more about me, visit aaronotoole.ca. But for now, it's great to meet you. As you're talking about polling numbers, not so good. CBC poll analyst Eric Grenier says the

Conservatives have as much support in the polls now as they did before he won the leadership. And if you look back, all of his predecessors got a bump in support at about this time in their leaderships. So no honeymoon for O'Toole. And then third, this is a really big one for him. There are divisions in the party. And let me just give you a brief summary that some social conservatives feel O'Toole has turned his back on them, and this after courting them to win the leadership. Western conservatives feeling alienated because they think too much attention is going to Ontario and Quebec. And there's also a relatively newly formed Western-based Maverick Party, and they hope to take advantage of that alienation. And then morale has been low with some MPs because of all of this and in particular, those low polling numbers.

Right, right. And I want to get into that internal strife with you today a bit more. So it sounds like this convention was an important moment for Aaron O'Toole as leader, perhaps even a pivotal one, maybe. And he gave this big keynote address on Friday. We need to be a Conservative Party with the courage to be bold and the Conservative Party with the courage to change. What was he saying, Hannah? What was his big message? Yeah, I can't even imagine the pressure that was on Mr. O'Toole on Friday, because this convention was to be the turning point for him. And even his speech emphasized that. The theme? Change.

In fact, change was mentioned more than 12 times in his 30-minute address to the convention on Friday. He made it clear the Conservatives can't depend on Liberal leader Justin Trudeau to stumble for them to win an election. He says they can't depend on the NDP being strong to split the vote so the Conservatives can come up the middle. And he reminded people, look, they've lost the last

two elections, gone through four leaders in five and a half years. We must present new ideas, not make the same arguments, hoping that maybe this time more Canadians will come around to our position. So they have to stop taking those old strategies that they've been using and those old arguments, hoping that more Canadians will come around to the Conservative position. If not, continue to lose to Justin Trudeau and be relegated to the opposition benches. Right. And I know one of the issues in particular that he talked about, and especially related to this idea that the party needs to change, it was about climate change. And as you heard earlier, he said,

it's real, the debate is over. And what else did he have to say about climate change? We will have a plan to address climate change. It will be comprehensive, and it will be serious. He didn't have details. However, as you say, he said, debate is over. Party can't ignore the reality of climate change. But it was a hard no to the carbon tax, and he says he will scrap that. That's something he's promised for a long time since, you know, his leadership.

A Conservative government will not solve this problem on the backs of working Canadians. The answer is not Justin Trudeau's carbon tax on the poor. But he also knows he can't win an election without a serious and comprehensive plan to address climate change. And he has to present that credible alternative. There was just no hint of what that could potentially be this past weekend, but they need to put some meat on the bones, I would say, when it comes to that end soon.

Okay, so we've got this party leader, he talks about how the party needs to change in order to win an election. One of the big issues that they need to change around is climate change. I will not allow 338 candidates to defend against the lie from the liberals that we are a party of climate change deniers. He says that, you know, it's real. This debate is over. And then, Hannah, a majority of the party's delegates voted against a policy proposal recognizing the existence of climate change, right? I think there were a lot of people who were just banging their hand against their head. It's like, what? You know, it was only hours, hours after O'Toole said that debate over climate change is over. And then we find out the results that 54%,

so it was 54% of party delegates voted to stay the course on their approach to climate change. So the efforts to get that official conservative policy to state firmly that climate change is real was defeated. And it was, you know, mostly Western based delegates that voted against it. If you look at it, it was it was it makes sense. But also, let me tell you a little bit more about what that policy resolution would have said. It would have also stressed that high polluting businesses would have to be more responsible to reduce emissions and they would have to be

accountable for it. And it also said the party believes in supporting new green technologies. But again, it didn't pass. And the push and pull on this issue within the party, it's crystal clear. And it's going to continue. I mean, take a look at even the leaders Q&A that happened with delegates on Saturday. You can really see that push and pull. O'Toole took two questions on protecting the oil and gas sector, one question on scrapping the carbon tax, and then just one on the importance of addressing climate change. So it's clear there is a big divide on this. And as O'Toole is trying to do, he's trying to broaden the party's appeal. But it's going to cause him issues, clearly, by looking at this.

him issues clearly by looking at this. I'm just trying to wrap my head around, you know, how this still happened, right? Because this is what is making all the headlines. So like, how did they not anticipate this in their own party? So you could tell that the party was scrambling in damage control yesterday because of the rejection of this climate resolution. It forced O'Toole's team into damage control. They know this is going to be a problem for them if they don't fix it soon. So one of the things we saw from campaign manager Fred Delory, he took to social media and he was trying to explain it this way. He said climate change has been in the policy document for some time. He says this was an edit to it that some simply didn't feel was necessary. I still think it is going to cause Aaron O'Toole issues, especially when he comes out and says he

does not want his candidates in the next election campaign to be described as climate change deniers. He said this this weekend. I know this is something that the liberals have certainly seized on already. Absolutely. They completely latched on to this. And as soon as I saw that this had happened, it's like, oh, you can hear that the liberals and even the NDP will latch on to this, in particular, an election campaign and pre-election campaign, which I think we are kind of in right now. We heard from Environment Minister Jonathan Wilkinson. He was tweeting, some things never change. Even if Aaron O'Toole cared about fighting climate change, his climate denying base is stopping that from happening. So there, you already have it. They're trying to define Aaron O'Toole and his followers as climate change deniers. And then

even this morning, I was taking a look and the Prime Minister's Chief of Staff, Katie Telford, was out on Instagram making sure that everyone knew that delegates voted against this resolution. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections.

Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast,

just search for Money for Cups. This climate change disagreement, it's not the only evidence of lack of unity in the party, right? Because the socially conservative part of the conservative base, they have one particular issue that they care about. And it's one particular issue that O'Toole didn't want anywhere near this convention. And tell me about that. Yeah, for sure. So before the convention started, there was this effort by anti-abortion delegates to dump what was an established conservative policy pledge that a future Tory-led government will not support any legislation to regulate abortion. They wanted that dumped. But that contentious social issue was simply not up for debate at this convention. Campaign Life

Coalition, it's an anti-abortion group, back social conservatives like Derek Sloan, like Lesley Lewis in the last leadership race, but they failed to get at least one anti-abortion policy before delegates. So that was the end of the discussion for this convention. And they're saying that their voice is being suppressed by the party. I don't think he has delivered on his promise during the leadership campaign to be respectful to social conservatives. He promised to give them a seat at the table. So yeah, we have an issue with this particular leader. And it's not smart to wage a war against your base. You can't win an election that way. You know, Hannah, they may be unhappy, but do they have anywhere else to go in terms of a

political party to support? Like, I guess my question is, does it really matter? Well, here's the interesting point. You know, there are groups like Campaign Life Coalition who have a load of social conservatives that listen to them. They have openly stated they do not like O'Toole as the leader, but they still feel that the Conservative Party is their home. They say what they're going to do now is try to get anti-abortion people nominated to run in the next election under the Conservative banner. But if that doesn't happen,

they're really not sure what the strategy will be next. I think they're still trying to figure that out. There are some, though, who are considering voting for Maxime Bernier's People's Party of Canada. That's another option for them. And I have spoken to a few grassroots members. This is just a few grassroots members, though, who have spoken about forming their own party. But that's still really muted rumblings at this time. Okay. It certainly seems like the problems that he went into this conservative convention with, like, they're not fixed coming out of it this weekend. Is that fair? I think that's fair. Within the party and outside the party, people still want to know, you know, what change means. What does that promise actually mean?

He had a good speech on Friday. He outlined some of his plans, but it was still quite vague. And rightfully so. He's still presenting a roadmap of him, an outline of him. There needs to be clarity. And until that comes, and until really people are forced to make a decision, both inside the party and outside the party, we won't know how it shakes down because people in the political realm, let's be frank, they like to grumble. They like to complain. We will only know the true decision. Yes, they do. And maybe I can be included in that at times. I'm going to admit to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think we're only really going to know when decision time happens. And guess when that is? That is in an election campaign.

It's really, you know, when the rubber hits the road. Another thing I wanted to ask you about is, you know, it strikes me, obviously, the idea of having a strong base that will show up for you at the polls is generally thought to be a good thing for a political party. But it does seem clear here that what the base wants are parts of the base. What they want seems to be in conflict with what the leader thinks is necessary to win. And are these things reconcilable? Is it possible to make this part of the base feel heard and also appeal to a broader swath of voters? I would give an

answer to that, yes. And I do have an example of it. For Mr. O'Toole, I think he's still learning how to manage all these different factions of the party and to bring in new voters. He's learning how to do that. But take a look at this and remember this. Former Conservative leader Stephen Harper,

he had it down. He knew he needed the social Conservatives in the party. He also needed to appeal to a larger number of Canadians to win in elections. So let me give one example of how he kept the social conservatives happy in his party. He kept the hot button issue of anti-abortion at bay by saying his government had no desire to talk about it. However, remember this, he also appeased the social conservatives in his ranks through some policies their way. And for example, he decided not to fund global abortion services. So there is a way to keep them happy, to listen to them, but also appeal to broader Canadians to come into the party.

Okay, what are you hearing from those within the party about how they feel this weekend went overall? Okay, so before the speech, I was talking to MPs. Like I said, they were concerned. Polling numbers are not so great. And they were telling me that Mr. O'Toole had to knock it out of the park on his speech. Okay, so let me give you a couple of feelings. They didn't want to talk on camera because they feel they shouldn't be doing that, but they wanted to give us a feel. Some felt he wasn't able to knock it out of the park, that he wasn't dynamic enough.

One told me they liked his five-point Canada recovery plan. I'm going to get to that in a second. But what they wanted to see was a secure the planet climate change plan in there. They think it's important that he comes out with this and soon. So let me give you what those five elements are. Within one year, restore one million jobs lost to the COVID-19 pandemic, increase mental health funding and anti-corruption law, beef up domestic production of pharmaceuticals and vaccines, and balance the books within 10 years. They really like to see those types of plans. He also made a direct appeal to grow that blue tent. We will be a government that fights for the prosperity and rights of all

Canadians, including women, Indigenous Canadians, LGBTQ Canadians, and new Canadians. Delegates, members, and MPs liked what he had to say. They know they have work to do. They know they still have to quell the grumbling. But like I said, in politics, they grumble a lot. There are other things to take notice of and positives as well. Typically, there are about 3,000 delegates for this event. This time, they had 5500. It was one of the biggest conventions that they've had ever, if not the biggest one, I think. It was virtual. So they were able to get more people easier to show up. Yeah, easier to show up. And then financially, they're ready to head into an election campaign. If one

is called, they're flush with cash. All right. And so I guess that's good because, you know, it is possible that one is called very, very soon. Hannah, just to pick up on the five-point plan on, you know, some of O'Toole's ideas around mental health, the economy, climate change, of course, you know, it did strike me that there is a real lack of details here as well. And I wonder, you know, I know that he didn't give a press conference at the end of the convention. But if you had the opportunity to ask him any questions after this weekend, what would you ask him? Okay, let me just go. Here's my first ones that I think of. So in his speech, he made the point to say he didn't want candidates called climate change deniers in the next election.

Then, of course, we're talking about delegates voted against that policy to officially recognize climate change is real. OK, Mr. O'Toole, square that one. And I think that really would have been the first question from any journalist in that room there. As you're talking about, he hasn't put the meat on the policy bones yet. So climate plan, O'Toole has said the conservative election platform will contain a climate plan that could cut greenhouse gas emissions faster than the liberal plan will. So give me one example. Just one example. And if you're going to scrap the carbon tax, how are you going to do it dang exactly and then okay another one uh you want to balance the books within 10 years how do you do that you can't do

that without cuts people are going to wonder about that give me three examples of cuts that you will have to make to balance the books in 10 years all right well lots for us to keep uh track of but hannah thank you so much for this conversation. Really appreciate it. It was a pleasure. Thank you. All right. So before we go today, a civilian RCMP watchdogs report has found that the Mounties racially discriminated against the mother of Colton Boushey during their investigation into his death. Police officers went to her trailer, surrounded it with seven officers with their guns, notified Debbie Baptiste that her son had died and searched her home, asked her if she had been drinking. The commission said they smelled her breath. The young indigenous man was shot dead after he and some friends

drove onto the property of a white farmer named Gerald Stanley in Saskatchewan in 2016. Boushey's death sparked protests across the country, particularly after Stanley's acquittal. We're going to have more on the findings in this Watchdog Report on tomorrow's show. That's all for today, though. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.