Front Burner - Conspiracies, controversies, and B.C’s election drama

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

Tomorrow, British Columbians head to the polls in a provincial election that’s seen plenty of twists and turns.There was the collapse of the B.C. United party, formerly the B.C Liberal party, which really opened the door for the further rise of the B.C. Conservative Party, and its leader John Rustad.Rustad, who’s running to be premier of B.C., is in a tight race with sitting B.C. NDP premier David Eby. Controversial and conspiracy-laden comments by Rustad himself, and a number of his candidates have taken up a lot of oxygen.CBC’s B.C. provincial affairs reporter Katie Derosa joins host Jayme Poisson to sort through all the political drama.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. A few weeks ago, John Rostad, who's running to be premier of British Columbia, was giving a press conference about his plans to let people write off some of their mortgage interest or rent. It's an out-there-enough policy that it would normally garner lots of questions.

But instead, when it came to the Q&A portion, Russ had really lost control of the narrative. Practically all of the questions from journalists were about a video released the day before, where he called the COVID vaccine the so-called vaccine. He also said he regretted getting it. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you think would have happened in BC if people didn't get the shots and are you suggesting that everything would have been the same in terms of death and illness rates without widespread vaccinations? So you know what thank you for that and I see the NDP are attacking me about this. Do you believe the vaccine science? So look clearly in my opinion what needs to be done in this province is we need to make sure that our health care system is good, that it's available. Can you just please explain to voters why you said you would get your three doses of the COVID vaccine?

So, like I say, this is David Eby's attempt to hide from his policies and approaches and his failures in British Columbia. his policies and approaches and his failures in British Columbia. The whole thing captured a lot of what's gone on in the lead up to the election on Saturday. Controversial and conspiracy-laden comments that Rustad and also a bunch of his conservative candidates have made have taken up a lot of the oxygen. For many, it's been quite surprising to see him in such a tight race to be BC's next premier against sitting NDP premier David Eby. A lot of that, as we've talked about on the show and we'll get into today, has to do with the collapse of the BC United Party, formerly the BC Liberal Party, which really opened the door for Rustad and his party's rise. One day out from the election,

my colleague, BC Provincial Affairs reporter Katie DeRosa is here and we're going to go through all the political drama. Katie, hi, it's such a pleasure to have you on FrontBurner. Good morning, Jamie. Katie, hi. It's such a pleasure to have you on FrontBurner. Good morning, Jamie. So I want to start by talking about B.C. conservative leader John Rustad. So as I mentioned in the intro, lots of headlines about how Rustad has said all of these controversial things about climate change. He doesn't think it's an existential threat and COVID.

He regrets getting the vaccine. COVID. He regrets getting the vaccine. But tell me more about Rustad and what these more controversial moments tell us about him as a politician. Well, you know, John Rustad is not a newbie to politics. He was elected under the BC Liberal banner in 2005. He's been a minister of Indigenous Affairs. He's been a forestry minister when the liberals were in power. And then he was under the Liberal banner when Kevin Falcon was leader. However, in 2022, Kevin Falcon actually ejected John Rustad from the BC Liberal caucus because John Rustad shared a post on social media that was seen as climate skepticism. And Kevin Falcon says that has no place in our party. And ironically, that was the start of the downfall of the B.C. liberals,

who were then renamed as B.C. United. It allowed John Rustad to join the dormant B.C. Conservative Party. It had no seats in the legislature, but John Rustad became the B.C. Conservatives' first MLA. He defected. Basically, he became the party leader and John Rustad became the B.C. Conservatives' first MLA. He defected. Basically, he became the party leader and then picked up another MLA. And so that sort of was the start of momentum of the B.C. Conservatives in early 2023. Since becoming leader last year, Rustad has been galvanizing the right and fast. As the sole B.C BC conservative in the House, he attracted more MLAs from his old party and support. And I think his rise is really tied to the rise and the popularity of federal conservative leader Pierre Polyev. You know, he is kind of a quiet guy. He's this unassuming presence. He's

not bombastic. Probably people underestimated him. And and so then we saw as the B.C. United was struggling with its own rebranding, that allowed Rustad to and his conservative party of B.C. to in the background be talking to more MLAs, trying to bring them over. And that led to in August, Kevin Falcon folding the party and allowing John Rustad to just completely be completely unite the right, as they said. Amid low polling and fundraising challenges, BC United is suspending its campaign and asking supporters to back the BC Conservative Party and leader John Rustad. There is nothing more important to me, my children and your children and grandchildren, that we not give the NDP one more day in power.

United is withdrawing its candidates nominations and Kevin Falcon is no longer running. And that has allowed, you know, John Rustad to now be where he is, which is neck and neck with the NDP in the polls. And just for people who might not follow B.C. politics super closely, how shocking was that development? It was quite a shocker. And I'm hearing from a lot of centrist voters or centrist organizers, politicians who say they are seeing more of a polarization, the B.C. conservatives further to the right than the B.C. liberals and

then the B.C. United were. And then the NDP, they're characterized more on the left. However, they have moved to the center because of some of the popularity of the B.C. conservatives, such as David Eby saying that he would abandon the carbon tax if the federal backstoppers were moved. I think it's critical to also recognize that the context and the challenge for British Columbians has changed. A lot of British Columbians are struggling with affordability. Saying that he would be in favor of more mandatory detention for people with mental health and addiction issues. We know that the current response that we offer is not adequate. And increasingly, I'm concerned that the way that they are interacting in our communities is making everybody less safe.

So we have seen the NDP shift a bit to the center. And again, that is a credit to the BC conservative message really landing. Yeah. I want to get into that more with you in a minute, but just to stick with Rustad for a moment, on some of the more controversial stuff that he said, the climate change stuff, the COVID stuff, what does he say when he's questioned about that? I think during this campaign, it's been hard to know exactly where John Rustad stands versus what maybe some of his policy people are pushing. I do think it is a

tough, tough to nail down where Rustad stands on some issues. So after I had the second shot of the COVID vaccine, about six weeks later, I actually had a heart problem. And through process, when I went in and talking to health officials, the question they had for me was only one word, Moderna. And to me, that tells me that there has been some issues. And so from that perspective, I do regret getting the COVID vaccines. And Restad isn't only being asked to respond to his own controversial comments. He's also being asked about controversies that are cropping up for his party's candidates. And just tell me about some of those.

Well, a big one in the last week has been a B.C. conservative candidate in Surrey South named Brent Chapman. South named Brent Chapman. There was one post where he called Palestinians inbred walking, talking time bombs, literally and figuratively. That's his words. And of course, that just shook the Muslim community, the Palestinian community. He apologized for that. He hasn't done any interviews since those statements. He sent a written statement. One of our CBC reporters went to his constituency office. He sat in his car, would not come out. Of course, now there's a video of a global reporter going into his constituency office. He also would not come out, refused to talk. He appeared to be hiding in one of the rooms. Yes, he was. So it's a bad look. And John Rustad has been asked repeatedly about it. He says

he's apologized. They were posts from 10 years ago. However, another post has surfaced, more recent, 2017, where Brent Chapman expressed skepticism of mass shootings in the U.S. and the Quebec mosque shooting. So, again, very conspiracy theory views in line with Alex Jones in the U.S. And, again, he will not answer to that other than a written statement. And John Rustad, again, has not asked him to step down. It's not just Chapman, right? Take me through a few of the other examples. Well, so there's another B.C.'s conservative candidate,

Chris Sankey, in northern B.C. He linked the COVID vaccine to AIDS. There has been another candidate who basically said that women who don't breastfeed are not really mothers. Yes, there's so there's been a lot of posts that have come back to, you know, to haunt some of the candidates. Controversies aside, this is really a very tight race. So obviously, Rustad and the B.C. conservatives are putting forward some ideas that people like. Is it the conspiracy stuff or is it other stuff?

Well, to be honest, I think a lot of people are just ignoring the conspiracy stuff. They say that doesn't matter. think a lot of people are just ignoring the conspiracy stuff. They say, that doesn't matter, that I can put that aside, as long as I see lower taxes, as long as the carbon tax is done, as long as I get some sort of rebate to help with my daily costs. So like, I do think it's hard to know to what extent some of these more embarrassing incidents coming up, to what extent they're landing with individuals who are just frustrated with daily life. They're frustrated with persistent crime. And of course, the BC Conservatives have really focused on the public safety issue and really just affordability. People around this province have been telling me

enough is enough. It's time to put the rights of citizens before the rights of criminals in British Columbia. You know, EB has been asked several times over this campaign, are you out of touch with people? You keep saying that, you know, some of your policies are eventually going to work, but they're not helping people right now. And EB has really tried to be careful to say, I understand people are frustrated. I know that, you know, people are struggling to afford rent and they're struggling to afford groceries. But he's trying to put forward the message that we could stay with the NDP and we will address some of these concerns. So that's some of the tension that we've seen is who can be the better shepherd of the economy and of some of these social problems that we're seeing in B.C. And again,

that's going to be decided by voters. I did find it interesting, since fiscal responsibility has been such a big part of this campaign, Rustad released his costed platform on Tuesday, right? And it showed, I believe, that the B.C. conservatives would run a deficit even higher in the short term than the NDP. Can you explain that to me? Yes. So people were waiting for the B.C. conservative platform because there were a lot of promises early in the campaign. Billions of dollars worth of bridges and sky trains and infrastructure promises that a lot of people are wondering, where is this money going to come from? We're already in a $9 billion deficit. And so the platform showed $2.3 billion

in additional spending over two years. And that doesn't include an additional $4 billion a year in tax cuts. There was a lot of, you know, eye-watering thinking, looking at that figure. There was a lot of, you know, eye-watering looking at that figure. And I think what, again, an easy line of attack for the NDP is that, well, there's going to be cuts that you just haven't told us about. And so the big focus is yesterday, both leaders were in Nanaimo and not in the same place, but they were trading barbs over whether or not Rustad is going to cut health care. EB accused Rustad of wanting to bring in U.S. style two-tier health care where people can pay to skip the queue. Rustad says that's not true. But I think a lot of the focus is, you know, what would have to be cut in order to deliver

the budget that the that, that the conservatives are pitching. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people, and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together.

To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I want to spend a bit of time focusing specifically on E.B. here, who was B.C.'s attorney general before becoming premier. He's been in power now for almost two years. And just take me through his road to premier and a bit of his tenure. Yeah, well, as a minister, E.B EB was kind of seen as the fix-it guy. He, you know, he had called ICBC, our public auto insurer, a dumpster fire. He overhauled that. And he, you know, uses that as a source of pride for people paying lower auto insurance rates right now. And he was also

behind, even as Attorney General, some of the NDP's housing policies because housing was in his category. So as a minister, he was seen as kind of the do-it minister. But then as Premier, there was all eyes were on him as to whether he could keep up this momentum and fulfill some of the promises he made, especially around housing. And now in the two years, he put a lot of housing bills on the table. And I think one of the big decisions that Eby had to make was whether or not to call an early election. He could have called a spring election, especially to capitalize on the rift between BC United, which still existed, and the BC Conservatives. But he insisted that he wanted to call, stick with the fixed election date in order to, you know, he wanted to fulfill

that promise. And now a lot of people are saying maybe that was a mistake. And something that EB had said is that he wanted people to see, feel and touch the changes that he put in, especially on housing. Give me a little bit of a Coles notes on what he's done on housing and whether people think that it's enough to move the needle on, you know, the country's most unaffordable housing market. Yes. Well, so there's a one big policy was to force municipalities to meet housing targets. So really taking away some of the land use planning that municipalities have and saying you have to build X number of homes. If not, we will approve these homes for you. So that ruffled some feathers with with municipalities and with local mayors.

Another policy plank or legislation was that if you have a single family lot, if a house gets torn down, you could now build up to six units on that single family lot. And then also a middle class housing plan, which would allow people with incomes of up to $180,000 household income to be eligible for a lower, a below market unit in sort of a rental. So acknowledging that there are people who are making up to $180,000 between two people who still can't afford to buy a house. So those are some of the policy examples. But again, I still think that people are waiting to see the effects of that affordability and house prices have not come down. to see the effects of that affordability and house prices have not come down. Yeah. And has Rustad and the conservatives had any success attacking him on that front? You know, what have they been saying? I imagine this is what, if not the most important issue in this election, top three? Definitely top three. And so I think, again, on housing, I've talked to some experts who have said, you know, the only thing Rustad has focused on is his Rustad rebate, which would reduce people's, you know, give people a tax cut on the amount they pay on rent. What we are announcing today is what we're calling the Rustad rebate.

We are going to have a tax deduction of up to $3,000 per month for people that are paying the rent or paying their mortgages. And one thing Rustad has said is that he thinks the private sector has more of a role to play. So there's a bit of a back and forth between whether the government should be the one to build these below market housing, or what Rustad says is if you remove the red tape, that reduced costs for builders, and that will naturally bring down prices. Well, you know, again, in the sort of early 2000s, when we saw house prices completely soar, we didn't see the private sector, you know, magically offer prices for below market, right? They want to make a profit. So there is some skepticism as to whether

these private developers are going to build, you know, say apartment buildings that families could live in. You mentioned that EB has backtracked on a couple of key issues as well. He's tacked further to the right. So the carbon tax, despite being someone who championed it for years, earlier this year, his government rolled back drug decriminalization in the province, another big issue. He has been labeled like a flip-flopper. Do you think that this tack to the right has helped him? I think that, you know, I think there were certain issues that EB could see the political winds shifting. I think from a political perspective, the carbon tax was problematic,

and we've seen other premiers move away from it as well. Andrew Furey, the latest of seven premiers calling on Ottawa to cancel this spring's carbon tax hike. B.C., the Northwest Territories, and Quebec have their own carbon pricing programs, so they're exempt from the federal plan. Nearly all the provinces that aren't now united. EB was the only premier in the country who was standing behind the carbon tax. So now it's all eyes are pointing on Trudeau. And really what EB was doing was basically passing the buck to Trudeau and saying, OK, you can blame that guy. Interestingly, the B.C. Conservatives have tried to saddle EB to Trudeau and saying, OK, you can blame that guy.

Interestingly, the B.C. Conservatives have tried to saddle Eby with Trudeau. Today, we actually saw David Eby come out and he says he's going to be campaigning against his own government's policies. I find that quite incredible. And I guess what it comes down to is he's torn between two lovers, whether it is Jagmeet Singh or whether it is Mr. Trudeau. They have attack ads showing EB and Trudeau together, basically saying they're one in the same. So I think that's another example of how the B.C. conservatives are closely aligned with the federal conservatives and are trying to, they're seeing the unpopularity of Justin Trudeau and they're trying to attach E.B. to that. The tack to the right on other issues like drug decriminalization, for example, is that widely seen as the right political move for E.B. because it's popular? Well, so again, I think a lot of advocates I talked to, they said, we cannot rely on decrim alone to fix the drug crisis, fix the opioid crisis.

It's one part. It has to come with treatment. It has to come with safe supply. But I think there was too much emphasis on just decriminalization without those underlying supports. without those underlying supports. And so there was a perception that more people were doing drugs in the street, that children couldn't go to a playground without drug use being there or needles being left behind. And so it was a short-lived experiment. And I think, again, politically, E.B. saw there was a problem there and the public was not behind it. So he kind of did a middle ground where decriminalization is technically still in play, but it's illegal to use drugs in public spaces. The drug policy issue has been very difficult. And I don't know if anyone has the answer, to be honest. It's a tough situation out

there. Look, I know that you and I have been knee-deep in policy which has been really helpful but i actually before we go do you just want to talk about uh chip wilson uh the most charming billionaire in canada oh yes the founder of lululemon just because it's funny and just can you tell me about chip wilson and his connection why are we talking Why am I talking to you about Chip Wilson in an episode about the VC election? The first billboard basically called the NDP a communist party. You know, another bill, second billboard railed against taxes, you know, basically saying you're stealing money out of people's pockets. And, you know, EB has used this as an example of saying, you know what, if Chip Wilson, if I'm not his guy, that's fine. You know, he is John Rustad's guy because Rustad wants to put in policies that will only help billionaires, that will only help the 1%. I would just say to Mr. Wilson, you know, people are struggling out there and we need

to provide support to them. And, you know, I respect the work that he's done in creating companies. I think that's great. But I don't regret raising the taxes on his $80 million mansion. So it's ironically been harmful to the B.C. conservatives, I think, because it's allowed the NDP to say, you know, if you want the billionaires in the B.C. conservatives, you can take them. But we're fighting for the average middle class voter who who can't afford an $80 million mansion. So that's why we're talking about him. And, you know, it's and, Rustad came out after the second

sign and he said, sorry, Chip, you're not going to get any of our tax cuts. So even Rustad had to come out and disconnect himself from Chip Wilson. Chip Wilson's like the big loser in this already. Final question. Very briefly, Katie, I said at the start of this conversation that this was a very independents could play a role. Of course, there are some MLAs or incumbents who were with BC United, were completely orphaned when the party collapsed, but didn't want to throw in the towel. However, the big question mark is those independents, who would they work with? Would they work with the conservatives? Would they steer to the right or would they steer more to the left? So I think that that could be the big X factor is the independence. And that's going to be something we'll be watching right up until the dying hours of voting on Saturday.

They say they call B.C. the Wild West of politics. I think this campaign is meeting that threshold. Yes, it's really a lot going on over there. Katie DeRosa, thank you. Thank you, Jamie. That is all for this week. Front Burner was produced this week by Joytha Shen Gupta, Iman Barre, Matthew Omha, Aja Sauter, and Ali Janes. Special thanks to Sarah Jackson. Sound design was by Mackenzie Cameron, and Sam McNulty.

Music is by Joseph Chabison. Our senior producer is Elaine Chow. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Locos, and I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.