Front Burner - Dangerous crossing: The winter path to asylum

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

They looked like a family. Four people, including a baby, were found dead in a snowy Manitoba field last Wednesday, just metres from the North Dakota border, where they were believed to be heading. Authorities believe they had been part of a larger group travelling to the United States, in temperatures that felt like –35 C. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has called their deaths "mind-blowing” and "tragic," and said he was working with the United States to crack down on people who facilitate undocumented travel over the border. But two people who’ve travelled the route — in the opposite direction — say what the system really needs is more compassion for people who are out of options. Razak Iyal and Seidu Mohammed, two former refugees from Ghana who now have the right to stay in Canada permanently, share their stories of making it to Canada from the United States in 2017. And CBC Manitoba reporter Ian Froese tells us what questions we’re still trying to answer about the four people who died last week.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Late last Wednesday afternoon, the RCMP in Manitoba made a heartbreaking discovery. Four bodies frozen to death in a snowy field just a dozen meters from North Dakota, where they were headed. Two adults, a teenage boy, and a baby. They looked to be a family.

They had been separated from a larger group in a blizzard in negative 35 degrees with the wind chill. There are still a lot of questions about what happened. Later in the show, we'll go over what we do know about what the Prime Minister has called a mind-blowing tragedy. But first, this dangerous trek is one many have done before, though usually it's done in the opposite direction. Seydou, Mohamed, and Razak Yal know all about it. Both are from Ghana, and both came seeking safety for very different reasons. Seydou is bisexual and was fleeing after he was outed. Razak feared for his life after a fight over his family inheritance became deadly.

feared for his life after a fight over his family inheritance became deadly. When the U.S. refused their asylum claims, they each realized they had no choice but to keep going north. That's how they met, at a Greyhound bus station in Minneapolis. Razik still remembers the moment at the station. Okay, when I got to Minneapolis, I was there by myself at the Graham Station. And I can remember on that day, I'm the only black guy sitting there at the Graham Station. So I was sitting there thinking about what am I going to do now? Because I don't know anyone over there. I don't have any friend or family in Minneapolis. So I was thinking by myself, what am I going to do? So I was there when I saw like a bus came in and people start coming out. I saw this guy. Now he's my good friend here and my brother here. I asked him, why is he here? Does he have any family? Does he come for a vacation? He said,

no, he doesn't have any family here and he's here trying to go to the border. And I said, what's a coincidence? That's the reason why I'm here. So, wow, I was very happy because I met someone, as long as he told me he's going through the border, we are all in the same situation. Both Seydou and Razak are here with me now to share their story. Hello to you both. Thank you so much for joining me today. You are very welcome. Thank you for having us here. Rezek, once you made the decision that the two of you will head to Canada, what happens next? We went out.

We were standing in front of the station. So that's where we saw a black car just come and park in front of us. From the beginning we were scared to tell him something because we don't know him. And he's a white guy. We don't know people. And we don't trust people because in the situation that we know ICE officers always decided to change who they are and they come after you. So and he say and he say where are you guys going and we say is he a taxi and he say yeah he's working here it's

like a Uber taxi or whatever he's doing He's doing all this. And we said, okay. And we told him we are going to the border. And we asked him how much. And he said, we're going to pay 200 bucks each. Okay, wow. And Seydou, what happened once you got into this Uber? How long was the drive? Did this driver take you to the border?

So we're in the car about two hours and he dropped us at Grand Forks. Like it was, I can't even remember the hours, but it's a long drive. And we stopped at Grand Forks and he told us like, you guys, like he was showing us the direction, ররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররররর� getting dark and we don't know what to do so we uh we we get off from the car and uh this uh uber driver or cab driver just turn up they turn around faster and left us there and we were walking we were walking and we were feeling cold and we were tired and like it was a long walk, and we were still walking. We didn't see any sign of us going to Emerson. And we were still walking, and we saw like it was around midnight. But once we were close to the border, we started getting cold, and the cold was windy.

It was windy, and the snow was blowing and stuff. And I was wearing a baseball cap, I was wearing a three jacket and a boot. It's not even a winter boot, just a regular shoe. How cold was it, Sidhu? When we were here, people say it's minus 17, but what we felt was more than minus 17 because the wind was blowing like very cold and it was snowing, I think. And it was blowing to our eyes and my eyes froze and I lost my baseball cap because of the wind. And it blows my gloves also away, and I have to put my bare hands into the snow and search for my gloves.

Oh, your gloves flew away. You had to put your bare hands in the snow? Yes, and look for my gloves and my baseball cap. And so I was bare, like I would say, like I was naked. I didn't have anything on my head at that time. And also it was very cold. It starts to get very cold and dark as you're approaching the border near Emerson, Manitoba. You mentioned that you saw a farm. Like, what else are you seeing? What's the landscape like? So the landscape is very, very, like, you know, very big. And there was fence. But like, it took us three hours there because at that time, like, I was feeling like I was frozen. And my hands hands I couldn't feel my fingers I couldn't like my ears all was

froze by and my eyes was I couldn't see and Razak was the one that like I uses his voice because he has already get off from that snow and he was standing in I on highway 75 in Canada. And he was the one that I took his voice as a direction where I can go and meet him. So that's what I did. And we both got off from the snow and got into Canada because we saw a French sign, MSN, and also in English. So that's where we knew that we were in Canada. So we're standing there. It was like

around 2 a.m. It was no shelter. The trees are dry. It was snow. It was windy. The wind was very, very cold. And that's where we were standing there giving thumbs up to people to help us

on that street and nobody was people to help us on that street. And nobody was there to help us. And also, like, when the car passes, they have to take about half hour before you can see another car. It was very difficult for us. So we gave up at that time because we didn't see any help. And we were just praying and saying, like, whatever happens here is the will of God. You thought you could die there? Yeah, we started praying and we saw this truck driver who we waved and he stopped and

came and helped us into his truck. So I want to get to this truck that helped you in a minute, but just before we do, Rezek, we heard from Seydou about how harrowing it was. And what do you remember? After we get out from the snow, we both lost our gloves because the wind is too hard. The wind is very, very hard. So there's no tree. There's nothing to cover up. So the wind is just blowing and it's still snowing. So it's no tree. There's nothing to cover up. So the wind is just blowing, and it's still snowing.

So it's very hard. So when we struggled to get out, and we are standing in front of the Highway 75, raising our hands, looking for help, we couldn't get any help. And my pants, I have two. I'm wearing two pants, and the first one was going out, and I can't lift it out because I can't feel my fingers. I can't feel my fingers. So I asked Seydou, please, can you help me out to raise up my parents? And he said, I can't. I can't feel my finger too.

And I said, wow, what is going on? And he said, it seems like our fingers are frozen. And it's very, very hard And it's very, very hard. It's very, very hard. I couldn't, so I have to step on my pants to take it out within my sneakers. And I forced it to go out. And I left my little Quran that my dad gave it to me and some couple of money in my pockets. Don't stand and we give up.

And I was telling Sadie, like, you know what? We do our best. We try our best. Anything that happen here, we stand what, we do our best, we try our best, anything that happens here, we stand for who we are, and we're fighting for a better life, and we're fighting for something good. So if we die here, it's okay. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem.

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create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. And Sadie started crying and I told him, stop crying, everything okay. So within that time, we were standing and we saw a truck coming. So we were raising our hands like a shouting help help so this truck driver it came in with the two top speed like uh we don't know how much like uh how many an hour that he was coming by he just come and passed and he went and park a little bit far from us so we were we ran to us a strike and he the first thing I asked him here even though we saw the sign right in French and English but I'm

still asking are we in are we in Canada and he said yeah this is Canada where are you guys from where are you guys where are you guys going and we said we coming from the state and we were frozen we don't And we said we're coming from the state, and we were frozen. We don't know. We're looking for help. And he took Seydou, and he helped Seydou to get into his truck, and he got me into his truck. So I saw him.

He took his phone. He dialed 911. He started talking for help help and he was telling them okay so within short of period like uh he packed his car he warmed the heat heat in his car so you were heating up so i saw ambulance was coming like a two ambulance two or one two ambulance was coming so within that 15ances, two or one. Two ambulances were coming. So within that 15 minutes, they arrived over there. They started taking care of Seydou because he's in very critical condition.

So they started taking care of him. They put him inside the ambulance before he came to me. And he cannot talk, so they were asking me a question. Yeah, I think he was sent by God. He's like an angel on that day because we give up. We both give up. We know that this is the end and when we got to the hospital, I think the doctor who take care of us, he told us, like, you guys are very, very lucky. It's better for you to get deported than to lose your life. But even though in our situation, even though when we go back, we know what is going to happen, we didn't do it because we want to lose our fingers or we want to die.

We do it because we want to go to a safe place country. We need a safe place that we can live and get a better life. That's the reason why we do. But those families, I don't know what situation they are in but I'm not advising anyone to cross the border at this time of the year that if you want to cross

I know people were going through hardship because of the immigration process but make yourself protect yourself protect the people that you are with so that you guys can have a better life too. You can have a better place to stay.

Ian Fraze is with me now. He's a reporter with CBC Manitoba, and he's been following the story of the four people found dead near the Manitoba-North Dakota border. Ian, thank you so much for being here today. Thanks for having me. So what do we know so far about these two adults, a man and a woman, a teenager and a baby found dead? Do we know who they are? Not yet.

There's a lot of unanswered questions in this tragedy, and this really is one of the biggest. And this really is one of the biggest. What we know is from the RCMP is that it's a man, a woman, a teenage boy, and a baby found last Wednesday dead in a snow-covered field. It's believed they likely died from exposure to the frigid conditions. Court documents in the U.S. say it is likely a family. They are likely Indian nationals, but the RCMP can't confirm all of that just yet. We also know, you know, how cold it was the night they were walking. The wind chill made it feel like minus 35. Those are unforgiving temperatures to be out in the cold, no matter how warmly you've dressed.

This is Assistant Commissioner Jane McClatchy with the RCMP. These individuals, including an infant, were left on their own in the middle of a blizzard when the weather hovered around minus 35 degrees Celsius, factoring the wind. These victims faced not only the cold weather, but also endless fields, large snow drifts and complete darkness. Terrible. You know, and I know that the RCMP found them. And I wonder if you could tell me how they came to find them. It's credit to the, I guess, the Border Patrol agents in the States. They had come across other migrants making the same trek, attempting to get from Canada to the U.S. on foot. to the U.S. on foot.

Those authorities, they realized something was amiss when one of these other people, also Indian nationals, noticed that one of them had a backpack with items belonging to an infant. We're talking diapers, toys, but there was no baby with them. They said a group of four had separated from them. That's what got the RCMP involved in Canada. They started the vast search. They got out their snowmobiles. And within a few hours, these four people, which is likely a family, were found. Do we have any sense of how long the baby, the teenager, the man and woman that are believed to be the parents, have been out there in that cold,

in that negative 35 degree weather? We don't know that for sure. RCMP is still saying that the autopsies will give us details on that. We know that from one of these people that were apprehended in the States, one of these other people making this trek they said they had been out there for 11 and a half hours walking they were found on a wednesday they said they lost track of this other group before the night before so frankly it could have been hours and that they were out there. You mentioned before court documents and a man who is alleged to be involved in getting these people to the U.S. was arraigned. What do we know about him and what he's been charged with? Yeah, so his name is Steve Shand. He's a 47-year-old living in Florida, originally from Jamaica. He is charged now with human smuggling. He was found in a rented van. It was actually

someone clearing snow that had first come across this guy. He helped to pull him out. Something was amiss enough for that individual to, you know, call the U.S. Border Patrol to check him out. That's how he was first arrested. There were two undocumented Indian nationals with him. documented Indian nationals with him. Authorities, you know, from court documents, they suspect that Shand was part of a broader human smuggling operation. Law enforcement had already known that, you know, just in the last few weeks there had been other human smuggling events. They had noticed the footprints in the snow going from Canada to the U.S. In the rental van that Shand had, there were receipts for a previous time when he rented a vehicle and rented a hotel room in the U.S. in the rental van to Shanahan. There were receipts for a previous time when he rented a vehicle

and rented a hotel room in the States. All this evidence together leading authorities to believe that, hey, this isn't the first time this has happened. Ian, do we know if any of these people had any sort of protection on them, like towards the elements? Like, were they wearing coats or boots or? They were. But, you know, no matter how protected you are from this weather, you know, it's, you can't be out there for multiple hours on end. Something else that sort of clicked in the heads of, you know, law enforcement in the States was that all these people were wearing the same clothing. They all had black boots and black jackets.

But, you know, we had a family of, you know, perhaps a family of four that died. And, you know, two people were sent to hospital with frostbite. So they were protected, but not enough. And to be clear, you know, when we're talking about human smuggling here, this is something people are asking for help to do to get across the border. There are no allegations that people are being trafficked here or brought against their will. You know, we usually hear people traveling the other way into Canada after their asylum was rejected in the U.S. And so how common is this kind of trip in the other direction? Yeah, not very. Canada is seen as being a friendlier

place to people seeking asylum, that they'll have a better chance of getting approved. I spoke to an immigration lawyer in Minneapolis, Ideo Ojo. He told me of a story actually of a guy in 2015 who had come from Canada to the U.S. Probably in the summer, he'd covered himself in Vaseline as some kind of a mosquito repellent. You know, people would do crazy things for hope. What drives them is hope. Because they believe they could make it. They have been told it is possible. And that's why they went back, just to get a better

shot at life but he says you know the the trek you know trying to get uh into canada or into the states from canada it's it's very rare he said you know it probably comes down to one of two things either you have family in the states to go see or or, you know, your chance at asylum in Canada would have failed. You know, he says this trek really shows the lengths people will go when they're desperate. Yeah. Yeah. Ian, thank you so much for this. Thanks for having me. All right. So before we let you go today, as I mentioned in the intro, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke about what happened earlier this week and said that Canada was working with the

United States to crack down on people who facilitate undocumented travel over the border. But say to Mohammed, when he looks at this tragedy, his questions are for the immigration system on both sides of the border. He says that whatever happened in this case, the system still needs to be more welcoming to people who need a better life. I was very sad. I felt very sad because I can't imagine how long they were staying there before all these people died. there before all these people die. And these people ending up dying in the cold with a baby, a baby who have no idea what is going on. And doing that because of maybe they are having an issue with the immigration. Maybe the immigration want to deport them and they don't want to go back. And maybe they didn't get the refugee studies to stay here our friends are not just from Ghana our friends who are from different countries who are who are like right now like

they're on deportation you know and they they came here to be safe and now Canada are making it difficult for them and worse for them. So now these four people died. And now who are you going to point your fingers at? It's still their immigration. And us, it's like we didn't end up dying. But these people stayed there for a long time and they died. All right, that's all for today. Thanks so much for listening.

We'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.