Front Burner - Decoding Everything Everywhere All At Once

Episode Date: January 27, 2023

This week, it was announced that Everything Everywhere All At Once was leading the Oscars with eleven nominations in total. It’s a mind-bending movie about a Chinese-American immigrant family with a laundromat that’s facing a tax audit. It’s a high-concept science fiction with a multiverse storyline, but it’s resonating with people for touching on issues like intergenerational trauma, the experiences of queer children of immigrants, and even existential nihilism. Today we’ll be talking about why this movie has so much significance, especially for people in the Asian community, with three guests. Frankie Huang is a freelance writer and illustrator. Mallory Yu is a producer and editor for NPR's All Things Considered. And Jeff Yang, is the co-author of RISE: A Pop History of Asian America From the Nineties to Now and author of the upcoming book, The Golden Stream: The Movies that made Asian America.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. Fire up and loud, another rocket shot. Turn down for what? Turn down for what?

Okay, that is DJ Snake and Lil Jon's smash hit, Turn Down for What. And if you were alive in 2014, you probably saw the viral music video, which was bananas and directed by creative duo simply known as the Daniels. Flash forward to today and the Daniels are the hottest ticket in Hollywood, scooping up awards and leading the Oscars with 11 nominations for their film, Everything Everywhere All at Once. Across the multiverse, I've seen thousands of Evelyns. film. Everything, everywhere, all at once. It's a mind-bending movie about laundry, taxes, the Chinese-American immigrant experience, and the multiverseiverse and something called hot dog fingers, but we'll get to that a bit later. What you need to know is that the film is resonating with people for touching on issues like intergenerational trauma, the experiences of queer immigrant children, and even existential nihilism. So today we'll be talking about why this movie has so much

significance, especially for people in the Asian community. I'm joined by three guests. Frankie Huang is a freelance writer and illustrator. Mallory Yu is a producer and editor for NPR's All Things Considered. And Jeff Yang is the co-author of Rise, a pop history of Asian America from the 90s to now, and author of the upcoming book, The Golden Stream, the movies that made Asian America from the 90s to now, and author of the upcoming book, The Golden Stream, the movies that made Asian America. And here's your spoiler alert. We're going to be talking about major plot points today.

Guys, it is so great to have you all here. Thank you so much. Hello. Thank you for having us. Thank you. So I'm hoping maybe I could start with Mallory here. Everything Everywhere All at Once is a film that is pretty hard to encapsulate. At its core, it's a story about a Chinese-American immigrant family with a laundromat that's facing a tax audit, but also about so much more than that. And Mallory, how would you describe the film

for someone who hasn't seen it? How I would describe it is a kind of a grab bag of emotions, zaniness, intergenerational trauma, and a whole lot of wackiness. The main character is Evelyn, who is, you know, the owner of a failing laundromat who's being audited by the IRS. She's married to a man named Waymond, who she views with some disdain. She says often, like, I don't know how he would survive without me. She thinks that he's naive and silly. And he is a little, but he's also really sweet and loves her. And during this IRS audit, she's approached by her husband, who is not her husband, from a different universe. His name is Alpha Waymond. And he tells her that there's a great universe destroying force that's coming after her. There's a great evil that has taken root in my world and it's begun spreading its chaos throughout

the many verses. I've spent years searching for the one who might be able to match this great evil with an even greater good and bring back balance. And ultimately there's a lot of jumping between universes and stuff like that. But really, at its core, it's a story of a family trying to find its way back to each other. Yeah, I think that's a really beautiful description that you just gave. Jeff, maybe you want to jump in here. Sure. At its core, I think, as Mallory mentioned, this is an intergenerational story, but it's also the story of, in many ways, a woman, an immigrant woman named Evelyn, who essentially is finding herself, all of her different selves, through kind of reconnecting with the fact that her own life, as flawed, as insufficient as it has been, is actually just an on-ramp to many, many other ways in which she could have been herself. Other choices she could have made, other existences she could have embraced.

And through that, she actually finds connection with her daughter. But she turned out to be stubborn, aimless, a mess, just like a mother. aimless, a mess, just like a mother. But now I see it's okay that she's a mess. But, you know, when I actually watched that, I remember feeling to myself that in many ways, this is the first time I've really seen in all of its just complete fulsome glory, a story that felt kind of like what it felt like

to be Asian American. A lot of times as Asian Americans, Asian North Americans, we are challenged with that question of what it means, right, to claim the sort of multifaceted existence as an Asian American. After all, we're all so different, right? What is it that actually makes a thing? Well, this was a movie about the multiverse, about all the different ways in which the choices we make create us, create our identities, the everything bagel of Asian America, if you will.

And for me, you know, just the journeys that Evelyn makes, all the crazy, wild, absurdist journeys she makes map out to the different ways that we express our diversity while also being one, right? Singular people with many, many different aspects of ourselves. Maybe a little bit metaphorical, highfalutin, whatever. It's just such a fun, crazy movie. But it was something that really inspired me and moved me deeply. Frankie, how about you? The thing that I loved about this movie is, you know, the multiverse really shows real potential possibilities of paths that Evelyn and her family could have taken. And I think this really pushes up against,

you know, that monolithic view of Asian Americans being, you know, generic, sort of living the same kinds of lives, having the same kinds of values, and having one path. And that's just not true, right? Like we could be anything. And depending on the choices we make you know we can end up in such wildly different places and you know the the hopeful message you know throughout the movie but really at the end as well is that you know it's so difficult to navigate all these different twists and turns as you make choices that will take you down these paths. But there is a way to, you know, find that path of love if you just remember what's important to you and be brave and be helpful. One plot point that I wanted to talk to you guys about is how Evelyn, the mother played by cinema icon actress Michelle Yeoh,

is uncomfortable with her daughter's sexuality, right? And Mallory, do you think the film did a good job getting at the nuance of what it's like to be a queer child of immigrants in America? I think it really did. You know, every once in a while there's this meme on Twitter that's like, when was the first time you ever saw yourself fully in a movie? And I have never been able to answer that for myself. Like I've, you know, said Hermione or whatever. you know, said Hermione or whatever. But Joy's relationship with her mother and her sort of character arc through the movie was something that I really, really related to. You know,

just that kind of longing to explain something about yourself to your parent and them not really having the language or the cultural context to understand where you're coming from and what you're trying to say. There's a bit of a divide between, I guess, in my own sort of coming out story, my mom was a little uncomfortable with my queerness at first and it came out in small ways like she would sort of hesitate to ask me if I was dating or you know if she if I talked about going on a date she wouldn't ask me as many follow-up questions as I think she would have if I were only dating men right and And that hurts. It is an awkward, uncomfortable, hurtful thing to experience. But what I think I loved about this movie and about Stephanie Hsu's performance is her face just encapsulates everything, sort of every emotion that I have felt in this sort of journey with my mom. Yeah. Can I jump in real quick? Please, please, Frankie. Yeah, I think for the first generation immigrant parents,

even though they don't know exactly how to find success and happiness in this new country they've moved to, they sort of had this idea, and I think often it's wrapped in fear that if you stray from this like vague path they have in their head, that you're putting yourself, you know, in a vulnerable position, you might fail, you may get hurt, you may lose everything. And with queerness, which I think a lot of Asian parents have a hard time dealing with. They just think you're already marginalized in this country as an Asian person, as a minority. Do you want to make it worse by, you know, embracing this identity that also is attacked and may put you in danger and may

jeopardize whatever opportunities you may go after? And I think it's that it's like very protective, but in doing so, they really deny this like core aspect of who someone is. And it ends up being so, so hurtful. I want to kind of put in a little bit of a vote of confidence for immigrant parents that sometimes doesn't always come through. And I know it's different for every child and every parent, but they can surprise you. And they can sometimes surprise you really sharply. I do think that one of the things that this movie does so well is, it, yes, shows the flaws in ourselves and our parents, but it also shows how those can, in fact, be bridged.

And that heartwarming aspect of it is something which, I mean, even now, it's like it sort of brings moistness to my eyes thinking about it, you know? Kind of a 180 here a little bit, but I mentioned, we've been talking about how it's kind of also a zany movie, right? Like a wacky movie. And I mentioned the co-creators, the Daniels in the intro. Other than Turn Down for what, the Turn Down for what music video, they're primarily known for making a movie with Daniel Radcliffe about a flatulent dead body, right? Like one of the Daniels, Daniel Kwan recently tweeted, started from the Harry Potter farting corpse movie. And now we're

here. And, and Jeff, like, how does the Daniels gift for the absurd show up in everything, everywhere, all at once? Because it's like weird. It's weird. You know, what is really amazing about the sensibility that they bring to this movie, the absurdist and surrealist touches they add to it, is that because it's about the metaverse, because it's really about the impossible being possible somewhere, right? the metaverse because it's really about the impossible being possible somewhere right they can put anything they want in the movie you know hot dog fingers uh a parody of ratatouille the disney pixar movie is renamed raccoonie yeah yeah i mean you know there's just just so much in the movie that feels like they had fever dreams or something and just jot it all down and decide to actually put

it on screen but that's also yeah they're having like big time drugs more power to them right um yeah but the fact is it's part of what i think actually makes the movie work because if the movie was played straight and i think there have been quite a few other you know sort of multiversal drama type things you know things like sliding doors you know that sort of multiversal drama type things, you know, things like sliding doors, you know, that there's a Gwyneth Paltrow movie back when, which have treated the idea of like, the forking paths of choices we make in a very staid fashion. But honestly, if we actually could go back and remake choices, I don't know that we'd necessarily just sort of do very subtle changes. Sometimes we might actually just go nuts, and the world would be nuts as a result. I feel like that more than anything else is part of what brought this idea of an incredible

and impossible and perfect world in some ways, a perfect multiverse to life. To me, because of the Hong Kong connection, actually, I just sort of thought of the Hong Kong comedic tradition I'm gonna butcher this because I don't speak Cantonese but Molay Toe just like the complete absolutely absurd slapstick that is you know Stephen Chow is really known for to me everything everywhere just felt exactly like that brand of humor like it's meant to be the silliest and most unexpected um version of what could happen just to keep surprising you just to keep you wondering what's going to happen next yeah and i i loved swiss army man when it first came out it was a movie that i watched it because it was, you know, the Harry Potter

Farting Corpse movie. And it really surprised me how meaningful it was and how they used this Farting Corpse to kind of talk about the discomfort that we all have in our own bodies. And I felt like you could really see the growth and the evolution of that sensibility, the ability and the desire to explore really deep emotional issues through the wacky, zany, slapstick comedy, like fighting with dildos and butt plugs. Yeah. People who haven't seen this movie are going to be like, what are they talking about? What are you talking about? Raccoons and hot dog fingers and dildos. And it's also like a love letter to Asian cinema, right? Is that for me to say?

Absolutely. One of the best scenes in a particular montage in which Evelyn, Michelle Yeoh's character, is sort of like looking at all these different lives she might have led is one that actually showcases her on the red carpet at an event for Crazy Rich Asians. The actual movie that Michelle, actual Michelle Yeoh starred in. That's so great. How meta. It really does, in so many different ways, seem to play back the traditions of Asian and Asian-American filmmaking, how they've converged in this loving homage. Absolutely. I don't know that anybody could possibly have imagined a role like this from Michelle Yeoh, who has done so much in her career. But if they were going to imagine this role, it would have to be in kind of telling her about it. It would be like, we're going to have you do everything you've ever done and everything you've never done all at once. Okay. I'm just going to stand here and take this all in. I turned 60 last year.

And I think all of you women understand this. As the days, the years, and the numbers get bigger, it seems like opportunities start to get smaller as well. And it probably was at a time where I thought, well, hey, come on, girl, you had a really, really good run. You worked with some of the best people, Steven Spielberg, you know, Jim Cameron, and Danny Boyle. And so then along came the best gift.

Everything, everywhere, all at once. Shut up, please. I can beat you up, okay? And that's serious. And I thank you. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here.

You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. investment and industry connections. That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Another performance that is probably worth us talking about here is the one by Ki-Huei Kwan, right? He plays Evelyn's husband Waymond in the film. A lot of people might remember him as Short Round from Indiana Jones or from The Goonies, which is certainly where... Data! Yeah, yeah. Which is certainly where I remembered him from.

I'm setting birdie traps, booby traps. That's what I said, Sam, setting booby traps in case of anybody's following us. What do you make of this idea that he's having this really cool Hollywood comeback moment? This really showcases not just an actor like Michelle Yeoh, who has been sort of beloved by so many people for so many years, and now she's finally getting her due, but also people who have been overlooked, like Kikwe Kwan, who has talked about how after those roles, his opportunities dried up. For so many years, I was afraid that I had nothing more to offer. That no matter what I did, I would never surpass what I achieved as a kid. Thankfully, more than 30 years later, two guys thought of me. They remembered that kid. And when I think about that, and I think about how we could have lost this amazing performance

where he's both a lovely, kind, sweet, almost naive man who brings cookies to his IRS auditor, or the alpha wayman who's like supremely competent and confident or of course the beautifully sad lovely version of himself who didn't end up with evelyn yeah oh and one k y worse beautifully framed and lit and looks every much as debonair as a jean carrey or or tony leung right much as debonair as a Gene Carrey or... Or a Tony Leung. Or a Tony Leung, right. Standards of what's beautiful

and what's worth giving attention is still so narrow. And I love that he shattered all of it and won the hearts of everyone who watched the movie. It's so great. All right, guys, this has been great. Just to kind of wrap up this conversation, I wonder if we could get a little bit more philosophical. There are two symbols in the film that I wanted to talk to you about. One is this everything bagel, which I think somebody has brought up.

The other is googly eyes. And Frankie, what do they represent? Well, the bagel could have been any other kind of circle, I think. But it represents a void, something missing in the center of everything, while the googly eye is its opposite. Basically, they end up representing yin and yang and these forces that can't exist without each other.

But you cannot let one or the other take over your life. What is the truth? Nothing matters. No, Joy. You don't believe that? Feels nice, doesn't it? And like the nihilism that this bagel represents, it's kind of consuming Joy alive, right? Yeah. This idea that nothing matters. And how is it flipped on its head in the film? I feel a little bit like it's almost a tell in the actual title, right? It is about everything, everywhere, all at once. And the bagel, because it's an everything bagel, there's just sort of this fundamental inherent joke.

An everything bagel with literally everything on it. But, you know, in some weird ways, I felt a little bit like the core of this was that the bagel wasn't just the weight of the cosmos. It felt almost like the bagel was the weight of expectations that, you know, when Joy was looking into this, seeing the emptiness of the core, but the surface loaded with everything in the world. everything in the world that's something which i think i kind of recognize myself right and which i think a lot of asian american kids growing up with very heavy expectations from immigrant parents all immigrants i mean she says oh yeah immigrants in general when she's talking about what she puts on when she put on the everything bagel she said she started with her report cards and yes school pictures and that oh man that really hit me i was like yes um but i love that the you know a whole thing is that nothing matters so why should i keep trying why should i keep going why should i keep fighting? And in the end, I really love that it's not that

the movie is trying to tell you that things are okay. And, you know, if you get that this recognition from your parents, you'll be like, better or whatever. I love that it says, well, nothing matters. So why shouldn't we keep trying? And for me, I felt like that was a really hopeful tone to end the movie on. Because especially now, it's hard not to fall into the nihilistic, well, nothing matters, so why should I keep fighting for a better world? nothing matters. So why should I keep fighting for a better world? And it's telling you that there are people and relationships around you that they're worth fighting for. And that it doesn't matter if you fail, as long as you have these people with you. I don't know, it's just lovely. It is. And also just a lot of the things

that do weigh you down, you know, that heaviness we all felt when, you know, we heard the mention of the report card. You know, they don't have to drag you down, right? Nothing matters. It doesn't mean that it's easy to just shrug it off, but it's always an option to try to keep it from drowning you, to find lightness, to let the things that matter to you be the center of your world, which in the case of the movie is the love and togetherness of your family. Yeah. Guys, this was really wonderful. It was such a pleasure to listen to all of you. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure being with you.

It was a great conversation. Final question. Has it changed the way you feel about laundry and taxes? I love them just as much as I always did. Yeah. Cool. I mean, it certainly makes doing laundry and taxes with the person you love a lot more romantic. Yeah. I'm never going to enjoy doing those things, I think. It's not really about laundry and taxes specifically, but just, you know, doing whatever mundane everyday things with the love of your life by your side. All right. So that was really fun and enlightening and interesting. And I just want to say I think it's nice to hear in a week where a lot of people are grieving

after a deadly mass shooting in Monterey Park, California, which has a large Asian-American community. And the cast members actually went to go visit there earlier this week. All right, that is all for us this week. From Perner was produced by Shannon Higgins, Lauren Donnelly, Derek Vanderwyk, Rafferty Baker, and Jodi Martinson. Our intern is Jack Wanen. Our sound design was by Sam McNulty and Mackenzie Cameron. Our music is by Joseph Chabison. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Locos, and I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.

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