Front Burner - Democrats launch Trump impeachment process

Episode Date: September 25, 2019

On Tuesday, U.S. Democrats launched an impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump. Today on Front Burner, CBC's senior Washington editor Lyndsay Duncombe explains what happens next and what Joe Biden's son and Ukraine have to do with it.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. The actions of the Trump presidency revealed the dishonorable fact of the president's betrayal of his oath of office, betrayal of our national security, and betrayal of the integrity of our elections. Therefore, today, I'm announcing the House of Representatives moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. That was Democratic

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi formally launching a process to impeach the President of the United States. That's a dramatic change of course for Pelosi and a large part of her party, who were dead set against impeachment. So what changed? That answer involves Donald Trump, the president of Ukraine, hundreds of millions of dollars, and allegations that Trump wanted a foreign power to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden. Today, what led to this and what happens next? This is Frontburner. Our senior Washington editor, Lindsay Duncombe, is here. Hi, Lindsay.

Hi there. What a time to be alive. No kidding. Very wild. Okay, let's try and make this pretty simple because there's a lot going on in this story. What happened yesterday or just a few hours ago? We're talking on Tuesday evening. Well, Nancy Pelosi quit being cautious.

The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the Constitution, especially when the president says Article 2 says I can do whatever I want. The Speaker of the House decided that this was the moment to come out and launch this impeachment inquiry, accusing the president of abuse of power and launching this investigation, which could ultimately mean that the House of Representatives will vote on articles of impeachment, accusing the president of high crimes and misdemeanors. Okay, okay. I've read it described as sort of like a grand jury, like they're now just taking the steps to collect information and evidence. And then they'll decide down the road whether or not they actually want to vote to impeach Donald Trump. Exactly. You know, when Pelosi announced this inquiry, Russia didn't even come up. You know,

what we've been talking about for a couple years now didn't even come up. You know, what we've been talking about for a couple of years now didn't even come up. She was talking about Ukraine. She was talking about a whistleblower's attempts to go public with information about Trump and the Ukrainian president. Shortly thereafter, press reports began to break of a phone call by the president of the United States calling upon a foreign power to intervene in his election. And let's unpack that for a minute. For those of us who have really been immersed in the Canadian election and have maybe just seen a bunch of headlines with Trump, Ukraine, Joe Biden, what is Trump accused of doing in this case? Well, at the heart of this is an accusation that Donald Trump used his power, used the power of his office and the power of American military aid to put pressure on Ukraine to get that country to investigate a political rival. That rival is Vice President Joe Biden, the former vice president under Barack Obama, whose son had business dealings in Ukraine.

You should be looking at Trump. Trump's doing this because he knows I'll beat him like a drum. Everybody looked at this and everybody's looked at it and said there's nothing there. Now, Trump, as this has all played out, has admitted that he did discuss Joe Biden on a phone call with the newly elected president of Ukraine. It's largely the fact that we don't want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine. Around the same time, the United States withheld planned aid to Ukraine. We're talking about

400 million dollars or close to 400 million million that that country was counting on in their fight against the Russians. Can you tell me a little bit more about why Trump would want the Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and Joe Biden's son, who had connections to this Ukrainian company? Well, the idea that something might have been going on with Joe Biden goes back to 2014. That is when Hunter Biden, Joe Biden's son, was on a board of a private gas company in that country. And Hunter Biden was making big money, some reports say region charged with really getting rid of corruption. The idea that there might be a conflict of interest here was raised. But the specific allegation that's coming from Trump supporters here is that Joe Biden got rid of a particular prosecutor in order to protect his son. If that ever happened, if a Republican ever did what Joe Biden did,

if a Republican ever said what Joe Biden did, if a Republican ever said what Joe Biden said, they'd be getting the electric chair by right now. Now, that's been debunked by many fact checks and reports that this prosecutor was someone who actually wasn't prosecuting corruption. There was widespread support for that move. But that is really the root of what has become a story that the president and his supporters, including his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, keep repeating over and over. No, I didn't ask him to look into Joe Biden. I asked him to look into the allegations that related to my client, which tangentially involved Joe Biden in a massive bribery scheme. We've seen this with Donald Trump and his opponents.

He gets a germ of something. He gets a nickname. He gets a phrase. And he uses it repeatedly. As I say, crooked Hillary, crooked Hillary. And that has been successful for the president in the past. And you mentioned before this withholding of somewhere near $400 million in U.S. aid. Is there any evidence that Trump used this money as leverage to try to get

Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son? Well, that is the accusation. That's the concern. But all the dots aren't necessarily connected here, Jamie, because what we have or the reason why this started is because of a whistleblower complaint. And that whistleblower complaint came from somewhere inside the intelligence community. A person who was working was so concerned about information that they decided to make this complaint. And the inspector general, whose job it is as a watchdog is to go over these complaints, determined that the content of that complaint was both urgent and credible. And the law says that in that case, that information has to be passed on to Congress. That hasn't happened because the Trump-appointed officials are holding it back, which is another

reason why the Democrats say what we're seeing is an abuse of power here. This is a violation of law. The law is unequivocal. OK, so like essentially, and correct me if I'm wrong here, we've got two allegations of wrongdoing which are very much connected. The first is like the initial accusation that Donald Trump was, you know, possibly trying to pressure the Ukrainian president into investigating Joe Biden and his son. And he was using these, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in USAID as leverage. And the second connected allegation of wrongdoing is that

there is this whistleblower that was trying to come forward with information and the Trump administration is blocking it. Yeah, not allowing the House Intelligence Committee, which holds oversight over the intelligence agencies, to see the content of that specific complaint, which they are allowed to, supposed to do by law. complaint, which they are allowed to, supposed to do by law. That's what's brought us to this moment. That's what sparked the inquiry. But that is not all that the Democrats are looking into, because this impeachment inquiry will also include all the other things the Democrats are already looking into. So ultimately, when they decide or if they decide to draft articles of impeachment, it could also include allegations of obstruction of justice

related to the Russia investigation in the Mueller report. It could also involve Donald Trump's private businesses potentially making money off of the presidency. So we don't know the scope of how big this could be. I can't help but think that Nancy Pelosi was against impeachment for a long time. And then that changed yesterday. So why? Why did this tip the scales for them? Against impeachment or slow on impeachment? Those are very different things.

We will proceed when we have what we need to proceed. Not one day sooner. Impeachment is a step that you have to take with bringing the American people with you. In many ways, this is Nancy Pelosi picking her issue and picking her moment. One of the things that is different about what we saw in the aftermath of this whistleblower complaint is the kind of Democrats who said, this is my red line. And that includes moderate Democrats who took these accusations very seriously, even though there could potentially be an electoral risk for them

as we go into 2020. A cannon blast in the Washington Post from seven freshman Democrats, all with military and national security backgrounds, all sit in vulnerable districts and had previously been hesitant to call for impeachment. Now they write, if the allegations are true, we believe these actions represent an impeachable offense. We do not arrive at this conclusion lightly. So what this means is this is an issue that Pelosi sees could put Republicans in a bind. If they have to ultimately cast a vote and really say whether or not they stand with this president. And we heard Pelosi say today when she was speaking

ahead of the announcement. And we have many other, shall we say, candidates for impeachable offense in terms of the Constitution. But this one is the most understandable by the public. It's something that the public can relate to. And so this is the moment that Nancy Pelosi decided to launch the inquiry. And what about it do you think that the public can understand? What makes it the red line? This is something that's alleged to have happened while Donald Trump was in office, dealing with a country that was fighting an adversary in Russia.

There are a lot of things that are visceral for these lawmakers and presumably for Americans. It's easier to explain than the ins and outs of the Mueller report, especially given all of the cautions and parameters that the Mueller report was written with. If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. I've talked about this with our colleague Keith Bogue before. You know, he said one of the reasons why they possibly didn't pursue impeachment last time was because it would be too polarizing, right? That it was a distraction from building on the 2020 campaign. From our standpoint, our day-to-day work is not about him. It's about the American people.

And those risks still exist because what Democrats have said they want to talk about are those bread and butter issues, which include, you know, health care and the economy. But this is a calculation by Nancy Pelosi that now is the time to expose what they believe are these allegations of abuse of power. Donald Trump even said today that impeachment could work for him if this process plays out. You could also say who needs it? It's bad for the country. Then they wonder why they don't get gun legislation done. Then they wonder why they don't get drug prices lowered because all they do is talk nonsense. And it will play out now as we get closer and closer to that 2020 election, because what it does is it gives him a foil. It allows him to make the case that

Democrats are out to get him. They have been from the beginning. They tried first with the Russia inquiry, and now they're doing it again on Ukraine. And that has been the kind of thing that we've heard from him already today. Right. He's been tweeting about this already. He says that he's going to release the transcript of the phone call with the Ukrainian president. And here's what he said on Twitter. You will see it as a very friendly and totally appropriate call, no pressure. And unlike Joe Biden and his son, no quid pro quo. This is nothing more than a continuation of the greatest and most destructive witch hunt of all time. In another tweet, just in capital letters, he just writes presidential harassment. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? We have heard Donald Trump make those same accusations over and over again. And we have to remember that they resonate with the people that support Donald Trump. His base of supporters

believe that this is a president who is repeatedly under attack and they will see this move by Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats as just another example of that. OK, and how are other Republicans responding to this? Largely by not saying much. There have been a couple of Republicans, Mitt Romney, who has been outspoken before in his criticism of the president, that have sort of laid out some lukewarm, if we find out that this is true, it's problematic. Republicans, meanwhile, are largely urging restraint. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. are largely urging restraint.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. What we have here is an allegation related to Ukrainian aid by a whistleblower. That's about all we know now. I'm not going to address all of these various hypotheticals that have been aired out about what may or may not happen in the House. But something key happened yesterday, and that was in the Senate,

when Senate Republicans didn't stop a Democratic resolution to let that whistleblower complaint, to make that whistleblower complaint be available to members of Congress. So that is an indication that those Republicans see that they want to know what's at the bottom of this, too. that those Republicans see that they want to know what's at the bottom of this, too. OK. Louisiana Senator John Kennedy said both the Bidens and the president's phone calls should be investigated. I can tell you what the American people are saying. They're saying, you know what, we'd like to know more about the conversation between

the president and President Zelensky. But we'd also like to know what this business about Hunter Biden is. It is now the case that the Senate has unanimously agreed to Chuck Schumer's resolution calling for the whistleblower complaint to be turned over to the intelligence committees immediately. So. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Let's talk about what happens next then.

Because just because they've launched an impeachment inquiry doesn't mean he'll be removed from office, right? No, we go to those articles of impeachment. If they draft them, then there will be a vote in the House. If the House votes to impeach the president, it goes over to the Senate, which is controlled by the Republicans. There would be a trial in the Senate where it would be determined whether or not to remove Donald Trump from office. And so far, the Senate Republicans have been supportive of their president. So it's hard to see how we necessarily get there. But what this will do is force those Republicans to make a call. Are they with Donald Trump or are they against him? Okay. And I mean, possibly, even if they stick with him, there's more information that could come out in these inquiries

that could be damaging to Donald Trump. And the big thing to remember is how what happened today changes that. It changes the frame around the way this whole investigation will be looked at. It gives new focus to the fact that Donald Trump and his administration have not been responding to legal subpoenas from Congress. It gives a new frame to see how the Corey Lewandowski, with all the stonewalling that happened in that hearing, played out. House Democrats calling their first official witness in this impeachment probe

of potential obstruction of justice. Congressman, I'd be happy to answer your question, or you can just have a conversation by yourself. But if you'd like to ask me a question, I'll be happy to answer it. I'm going to continue. The reason is because... Well, then don't ask me a question if you don't want to hear my answer. Was this the first time you'd done that? I believe it's my standard operating procedure when taking notes, Congressman. So every note that you take of the president, you put in a safe?

How big is that safe? It's a big safe, Congressman. There's a lot of guns in there. This gives the whole thing more legitimacy, you put in a safe? How big is that safe? It's a big safe, Congress. There's a lot of guns in there. This gives the whole thing more legitimacy and Americans will be paying attention. Is the idea here that, you know, we're no longer looking at the president's behavior in terms of individual instances? And now the House of Representatives is saying, we're going to look at all of it cumulatively. In terms of abuse of power in a way that has only happened just a handful of times. Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson, the only two presidents that have ever been impeached. I think the president is very disappointed. I believe

the president firmly believes that the politics of personal destruction in this town, in this country has to come to an end. And Richard Nixon quit before he was able to be impeached. It has become evident to me that I no longer have a strong enough political base in the Congress to justify continuing that effort. Okay, so Lindsay, what are you looking for next? This is moving quickly. Donald Trump has said, as you mentioned, that that phone call transcript could be released today. There is a chance that the whistleblower at the heart of all this will testify in front of the House Intelligence Committee. That's something that that person's lawyers say they want to have happen. That could happen as early as this week. There's also scheduled testimony from the acting intelligence director. So all of this is going to

play out very quickly and the stakes are high. And big picture here, what are we looking for from the Republicans? Will they turn against this president? Do the things that we learn out of these hearings and out of these various investigations force those lawmakers to step away from Donald Trump when they have been pretty much in lockstep since he was elected? So basically, we're just going to be talking to you real soon. You know, just when you thought that the Canadian news could overtake the American news, we got to pop back up there. They're like, hold my beer. Thanks so much, Jamie. Thank you. Okay, so before we go, an update from Tuesday on the federal election campaign trail. As part of their climate plan, the Liberals announced they would halve the corporate tax rates for companies that develop or manufacture products with zero emissions.

So then companies that make electric vehicles and the batteries that go inside them. There was also a tax announcement from the Conservatives as well. inside them. There was also a tax announcement from the conservatives as well. Conservative leader Andrew Scheer said he would reverse the decision by the liberals that increased the tax rate on small business investments and made it harder for companies to pay dividends to family members. This rule came into place after a lot of arguments that people were incorporating solely for their tax benefits. So Scheer says he's going to reverse all of that if he gets elected. And three, the Greens are announcing more services for remote and rural communities, including a plan that would see

Canada Post offer banking services and free access to wireless internet. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner and see you tomorrow.