Front Burner - Donald Trump has COVID-19. Now what?

Episode Date: October 5, 2020

On Sunday, doctors at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center briefed the media on the health of U.S. President Donald Trump. The news conference came after a whirlwind weekend where a growing number of the president’s inner circle, including first lady Melania Trump, tested positive for COVID-19, and where the president's doctors and team issued conflicting messages about his medical status. CBC’s senior Washington editor Lyndsay Duncombe joins us to explain what’s known about the president’s health, how this outbreak could impact the U.S. election and what this means for the nomination of the next U.S. Supreme Court justice.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. And in doing so, you know, it came off that we were trying to hide something, which wasn't necessarily true. The fact of the matter is, is that he's doing really well. If everything continues to go well, we're going to start discharge planning back to the White House. That's it. Thank you.

The president's doctors at a Sunday briefing after a whirlwind weekend where a growing number of Donald Trump's inner circle, including First Lady Melania Trump, tested positive for COVID-19. Three Republican senators have now tested positive. President Trump's campaign manager, Bill Stepien. Kellyanne Conway. What followed were wildly conflicting messages about the president's medical status. Simple question for the American people. Whose statements about the president's health should we believe? CBC's senior Washington editor, Lindsay Duncombe, has been following all of these developments closely.

And she's here to explain what we really know about the president's health, how this could impact the U.S. election, and what this means for the nomination of the next Supreme Court justice. I'm Josh Bloch. This is FrontBurner. Hello, Lindsay. Hello. I want to start by acknowledging just how totally insane the past few weeks have been. I mean,

we had the death of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. We had the bombshell report on Trump's tax returns. And then this historically chaotic first presidential debate. Okay, let me ask. I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from me, and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen. And now the president and more than a dozen people connected to the White House have tested positive for COVID. It's amazing how these earth-shaking stories are both utterly surprising and in a way utterly predictable, Josh. Like, should we be amazed that an 87-year-old cancer survivor would pass away or that the New York Times would reveal Donald Trump hasn't paid very

much tax or that a 74-year-old president who hasn't followed the health rules in the middle of a pandemic would get sick. But the fact that all of this is happening all at once, just wow, and a month away from the vote. It's quite something. We're talking at 2 p.m. on Sunday afternoon. And I want to go back a little bit because the first signs of trouble was on Thursday when Bloomberg News broke the story that former White House communications director Hope Hicks had tested positive for COVID-19. She has traveled with the president several times this week, including a trip on Marine One. There's no evidence that the president is sick or positive with the coronavirus. Tell me what spiraled from there.

Well, interestingly, the president didn't take any questions as he was getting on to Marine One that afternoon. And then as this news broke of Hope Hicks and her positive test, Donald Trump dialed in, as he is wont to do, to Fox News and had a conversation with Sean Hannity when he said that he and the First Lady were awaiting their COVID test results. When you are with people from the military or for law enforcement and they come over to you and they want to hug you and they want to kiss you

because we really have done a good job for them, and you get close and things happen. I was surprised to hear with Hope, but she's a very warm person with them, and she knows there's a risk. And then, just after midnight, before 1 a.m. in the morning, the president tweeted that both he and the first lady had tested positive. Now, the original plan from the White House doctor was that the president would work from home, but his condition was such that he was taken by helicopter to Walter Reed

by late Friday afternoon or suppertime Friday. And during that time, the list of people, the upper echelons of the Republican elite who tested positive for coronavirus just kept getting larger. Not just the president and the first lady and Hope Hicks, but his former advisor, Kellyanne Conway, his campaign manager, Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, who was working with the president on debate prep earlier in the week. He went to hospital over the weekend. Three Republican senators, the chair of the Republican National Committee, the president of Notre Dame University. It's just a huge list.

Well, now, and a whole bunch of the people that you're just mentioning, they all attended Trump's nomination event at the White House Rose Garden just over a week ago. And it was to celebrate the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett for the Supreme Court. You are very eminently qualified for this job. You are going to be fantastic. Thank you. Really fantastic. Just describe the scene at the White House Rose Garden. Just describe the scene at the White House Rose Garden. Well, it was outside, but other than that, it didn't look like it was taking place in a pandemic. Certainly the seats in the Rose Garden were not six feet or a couple of meters apart. They were relatively close together.

Some people were wearing masks, but certainly many, many were not. And there was a real sense of celebration, pre-pandemic celebration. After Amy Coney Barrett was introduced, you can see these pictures on social media of people actually hugging each other and really getting very close to each other in these conversations. Come on up, family.

Come on up, family. And it wasn't just the Rose Garden event, Josh. It was also a series of smaller events with Coney Barrett and her family and other top Republicans that took place inside the White House. So when you look at those pictures now, it looks as though it was a super spreader event. And certainly that's the way it's being portrayed, although we don't know for certain where the president got the virus or where these people got the virus. Right. We don't

know. And there have been many events that have taken place since that one, including the presidential debate. And for that event, the candidates were supposed to get tested based on an honor system. Although I saw that Chris Wallace, the moderator of the debate, claimed that Trump arrived in town too late to get tested. Yeah, too late to be tested. And the other interesting thing about that debate is that the rule was, according to the medical officials, was that people who were in the hall had to wear masks. The Trump family took their masks off as the debate began while they were sitting next together in defiance of those rules. People from the Cleveland Clinic came over and offered the first family masks,

thinking maybe they didn't have them. They were waved away. And the Commission on Presidential Debates has issued a statement saying from now on, if you don't wear a mask, you're going to be escorted from the hall. Where else has the president been where people could have been exposed? Well, it depends on when he actually got the virus because that's something that we don't necessarily know. There was a moment at the news conference with the president's doctor yesterday when his doctor said that Donald Trump was 72 hours into his infection.

So Thursday afternoon, following the news of a close contact is when we repeated testing. And what that would mean is that he was infected on Wednesday afternoon. Now, the White House has walked that back and said that the doctor misspoke. But that raises the possibility that Donald Trump did have contact with people on his campaign if he was indeed sick at that time, which could mean the rally that he held in Minnesota on Wednesday night. Look at this crowd. This was supposed to be a few people. This was supposed to be just a little celebration.

It could mean the fundraiser. He had outdoors with a couple hundred supporters in New Jersey. There was a smaller indoor component to that on Thursday as well. But the bottom line is, because there's so much we don't know about the timing of Donald Trump's diagnosis, it remains uncertain as to whether those people were at risk or not. So as you said, the announcement comes early, early Friday morning that he's tested positive for COVID-19. He's admitted to Walter Reed Hospital in Maryland. And from there, there's been some really mixed messages about the president's health.

I mean, at first, the doctors were presenting this really rosy picture of his health. And then that shifted. I mean, tell me about how that evolved. Well, it evolved even as the news really played out on Friday. We see the initial messaging being that Donald Trump is going to work from home. Then we hear he has mild symptoms. Then next thing you know, by supper time, he's in a helicopter on the way to Walter Reed. On Saturday, we had this news conference from the doctors where his doctor, Sean Conley, gave this very rosy picture of how the president was doing.

At this time, the team and I are extremely happy with the progress the president has made. Thursday, he had a mild cough and some nasal congestion and fatigue, all of which are now resolving and improving. But at the end of that news conference, the president's chief of staff, Mark Meadows, went over to the small group of pool reporters and had a completely different message to share. He said that Donald Trump had gone through a quote, very concerning period on Friday and faces a critical couple of days in the fight against COVID-19. Meadows told reporters we're still not on a clear path yet to a full recovery. So a big contrast from what we were hearing from the president's doctors. There has

been different information about some of the treatments that the president is receiving. On Saturday, the doctors would not answer specific questions about whether Donald Trump had received supplemental oxygen. And then we learned today that indeed he had. And the doctor had to walk back his comments and explain why he hadn't been as forthcoming in this rather strange revelation where he said that he had wanted to present a rosy picture. Right. During the press conference on Sunday, Dr. Sean Conley said, I didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction. And we don't know what that means. Was he not wanting to give information that Donald Trump might see and then would not be conducive to a recovery from the president?

It is an odd statement. Yeah, and I've been seeing that health experts have been commenting that both, as you mentioned, that the seriousness of these two episodes of hypoxia, of low oxygen supply that they detected in Donald Trump, but also they've been given these two different experimental drugs. One of them is a steroid for people with lung damage. And the other one, remdesivir, is generally given to people with moderate to severe COVID symptoms. And there's a couple of ways you could look at that. You know, you could look at it as though all of this is being done, giving the best care possible in a preventative way for the president of the United States, a kitchen sink approach to beating this virus. to beating this virus.

Or you could look at the specific course of action being taken by this medical team and infer that the president might be in trouble here. And given the mixed messages, it's hard for the American public to figure out exactly which way it is. On Saturday, Trump released this four-minute video from the hospital, which included a pretty confusing narrative

about why he actually chose not to self-isolate at the White House, but rather check into Walter Reed Medical Center. This is America. This is the United States. This is the greatest country in the world. This is the most powerful country in the world. I can't be locked up in a room upstairs and totally safe and just say, hey, whatever happens, happens. I can't do that. You know, if you're a leader, you have to confront problems, and that's why he went to the hospital. It was a rather rambling video from the president,

but that's often how Donald Trump speaks when he is in perfect health. There has been a concerted effort from the White House and the social media accounts to share pictures of the president working at Walter Reed, pictures of him on the phone signing papers. And this video as well is in the same thing. Donald Trump tweeted a couple of minutes ago thanking medical staff and thanking the great patriots, as he put it, who are gathered outside the hospital here with their flags, saying he was going to pay them a surprise. And sure enough, moments later, a big motorcade started driving up the road behind me.

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How unusual is it for there to be so much mystery around the status of a U.S. president? Not unusual at all. In fact, Woodrow Wilson got the flu in Paris during a pandemic in 1919, negotiating the peace accords. And they tried to keep that a secret. And then, too, easier, I suspect, without the Internet and social media. the internet and social media. There have long been stories of how presidents have tried to conceal health information from FDR and heart condition and to John F. Kennedy, who, while he was president, suffering from pain, taking painkillers and had Addison's disease, an adrenal condition that people didn't know about. So secrecy is nothing new. But the

thing I think that it might be hard for Canadians to get their heads around is how much health information Americans demand about the president. The tradition is that very detailed information about medications, conditions is revealed in an annual physical. And when presidents go into hospital, there is detailed information that is expected by the public about exactly what is happening. I mean, thinking back to the information released about George W. Bush's colonoscopy.

The procedure lasted for 20 minutes and was completely uncomplicated. No polyps were found, no abnormalities were found. They want a lot of information, which is a different kind of standard, I think, than Canadians are used to. And I think which is what makes for the American public the idea that there might be misinformation here a lot more jarring. Right. The U.S. election is now less than a month away. And, you know, in the best case scenario, you have Trump would have to remain in isolation for some amount of time. His medical team said he could return to the White House as early as tomorrow, as early as Monday. But what could all this mean for his bid for reelection? Well, I think we have to say

that this is so unprecedented that even at this stage, any kind of analysis of what this means for the campaign is really premature. The polls have not caught up to this diagnosis, but we do see in polls released today increasing support for Joe Biden. And some of that support is coming after the debate on Tuesday when the president repeatedly interrupted Joe Biden. Head of the CDC said, if we just wore masks between now and January, we'd probably save up to 100,000 lives. It matters.

And they've also said the opposite. You know, you can imagine a scenario, Josh, where this is something that the Trump campaign uses to change course on coronavirus messaging and get kind of a rally around the president effect in terms of the election. Nothing that we've seen has indicated that's the way that they are planning to go. There is polling that shows that Americans don't believe that Donald Trump has taken this virus seriously enough. And that's probably not a good thing for his campaign. You could see efforts even in the debates for Trump to steer

the narrative around this campaign away from COVID. I mean, it certainly puts COVID back into the center of the conversation around this election campaign. Yeah, and that's not something that he wanted to do. He wanted to be talking about Amy Coney Barrett. Right. And the other obviously major disruption is it's not just the president. Donald Trump's, as you mentioned, Donald Trump's campaign manager, Bill Stepien, has tested positive for COVID-19 as well. So there's a number of people who will have to recover to get the campaign back on course. Yeah. And it also presents a challenge for the Democrats as well, right? Because we're seeing this play out with the Democrats really trying very hard not to say, I told you so. I mean, Joe Biden has pulled his negative ads at this moment, but is still going on with his campaign schedule and is trying to

wish the president and the first lady and everyone around them well, at the same time, point out what has been a central message of the Democrats' campaign, which is how the Trump administration has handled the coronavirus. My wife Jill and I pray that they'll make a quick and full recovery. This is not a matter of politics. It's a bracing reminder to all of us that we have to take this virus seriously. It's not going away automatically.

Right. And then another massive way this outbreak could shape the future of the United States is by affecting the Supreme Court nomination of Amy Coney Barrett. Because right now, the Senate judiciary is set to meet on October 12th. They're trying to push this through really fast, but it's not clear how that's going to play out. As you mentioned, there's three Republican senators who have tested positive for COVID-19. And two of those senators, Josh, are on the Judiciary Committee where those hearings will take place. So there's the possibility of them joining virtually, but the bottom line is what this all comes down to is do Republicans have the votes that they need to pass a nomination in the full Senate? And we know that two Republicans have said that they would not vote for a Coney Barrett this close to the election.

That does put that vote in jeopardy. Now, the Republicans, led by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, are determined to get this done, come hell or high water. But the waters are getting higher. Obviously, we don't know where this is heading. We don't yet know how bad the virus is for Trump. What would happen if Trump dies or if he is incapacitated? Well, I think we have to look at that in terms of two different scenarios, what it means for running the country and what it would mean for the campaign.

It is far more clear when it comes to running the country because the 25th Amendment would allow for Vice President Mike Pence, who has tested negative, to take on responsibilities. That would also be the case should Donald Trump be put in sedation. It's what's happened on an interim basis when other presidents have had medical procedures where they have been under general anesthetic. The bigger question that's much tougher to answer is what it means for the campaign itself, because more than two million Americans have already voted, and Donald Trump's name was on the ballot. We are so close to this election. Makes any scenario

whereby the president was not going to be on the ballot, incredibly complicated and unclear. It would likely again then fall to the electoral college when they meet, because remember, that's who officially makes the decision on who is president based on how people in different states vote. And that gives us layers of complication going forward. When do we expect to get more information about Trump's health? Well, it looks as though the doctors are holding these news conferences daily. And I know that they did say today

that the president could return back to the White House and to continue to recover there as soon as tomorrow. Coronavirus is unpredictable. So I think we just have to wait and watch and see how this plays out at an incredibly intense time. Lindsay, thank you so much for speaking with me. You're welcome. Some other big political news from over the weekend, the Green Party of Canada elected their new leader.

What I realize, and what many of us have come to realize during this period, is that the other parties are simply out of ideas. They are intellectually exhausted and they are out of ideas. This is a moment that demands daring, courageous leadership and this is something that we simply did not see in the last speech from the throne. You have matched a leader to the challenges of this time. I also believe that we need to match a party to the needs of this moment. And there is no question that that party is the Green Party of Canada. Annamie Paul is the first Black permanent leader of a major federal political party.

She's running in the upcoming October 26th by-election, where there's a race to claim former Finance Minister Bill Morneau's seat in the Toronto Centre riding. That's all for today. I'm Josh Bloch. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.