Front Burner - Don't look back in anger: Oasis reunite

Episode Date: August 30, 2024

It's hard to overstate just how big a global phenomenon Oasis were at their peak in the mid '90s, but it wasn't just the music that made them compelling — it was the rock star antics and dramatic love-hate relationship between Liam and Noel Gallagher, the brothers who fronted the band and wrote the songs, respectively.After years of mini-breakups and potshots at each other in the press (and fistfights in real life), they disbanded seemingly for good in 2009. But now, after 15 years, they've announced they're getting back together for a run of shows in the U.K. and Ireland.Steven Hyden — culture writer at Uproxx and Oasis superfan — and Paolo Hewitt — music journalist and author of two books on the band, "Getting High: The Adventures of Oasis," and "Forever the People: Six Months on the Road With Oasis" — join guest host Jonathan Montpetit to explain why, when nostalgia reunion tours are a dime a dozen, this particular one is such a big deal.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jonathan Mopetze, in for Jamie Poisson, and I'm a big fan of the band Oasis. Their biggest hit, Wonderwall, has been dominating the streaming charts this week after news that, following 15 years, the band is finally getting back together. that following 15 years, the band is finally getting back together. But if you're a fan of the band, you know this is not your average inevitable nostalgia reunion tour. Because the two brothers at the heart of the band, Liam and Noel Gallagher, well, they're probably just as

famous for their feuding and bickering as they are for any of their actual musical output. They were always a volatile pairing. Noel, the talented guitarist and songwriter, Liam, the charismatic frontman with the snarling vocal style. Bandmates, brothers, but hardly friends, as Liam himself would freely admit. It's all right, man. I mean, you know, we don't go for walks in the park, you know. We don't go and sit, you know, and feed each other popcorn in a cinema, you know what I mean?

We just do what we do. Recently, their disagreements have become more public. Liam's saying of Noel, he doesn't like me, and I don't like him. Now Noel has quit the band, saying he simply could not go on working with Liam a day longer. How was it that these two

lads from Manchester became one of the biggest rock and roll sensations of the 1990s? And why is it such a big deal that they're finally getting back together? I've got two guests with me on the podcast today. Stephen Hyden is a culture writer with Uproxx and possibly an even bigger Oasis fan than I am. And also with me today is Paulo Hewitt. He's a music journalist who spent a lot of time with Oasis during their glory days in the 90s. He's written two books about the band, Getting High, The Adventures of Oasis, and Forever the People, Six Months on the Road with Oasis.

So Stephen, I'd like to start with you. Earlier this week, you wrote that, quote, if you're a music fan, you probably have a handful of I remember exactly where I was when I heard it albums. And for you, one of those was the first Oasis album, definitely maybe. Can you take me back to that moment and tell us what was so compelling about it? Yeah, I mean, I think for me as an American, and I was in high school at the time, I was 17 years old. Oasis represented something that it just felt very different at the time. I don't think you can disregard the context of when that record came out. It was released in August of 1994. And that's just four months after Kurt Cobain took his own life. And I was a kid. I loved grunge. I loved grunge. I loved alternative rock.

That was the formative music for me of my early teen years. And it felt like there was a void in music after Cobain died. And then along comes this band from England. And for me, it just felt so different. The sound of the band, their attitude, what they represented, the working class aspect of their background. Maybe you're the same as me When you see things I'll never see You and I are gonna live forever And I was also starting to learn about music

history at this time. I was investigating, you know, the great British bands of the 60s and 70s, Beatles, Stones, Kinks, The Who, all those groups. And for me, it felt like, oh, the great British band of my generation has arrived right here. So I just became obsessed with them. Love Definitely Maybe would go to the record store and try to find the import singles. So they quickly became like my favorite band of my high school years. And Paulo, how did you become involved with the band? Well, around about the same time Oasis played in London, they played two gigs, one on a

Tuesday, one on a Thursday. And by that time time there was a real buzz around the band and I went to the Forum in Kentish Town it's a kind of small little venue and they were absolutely compelling if only because they arrived on stage they stood stock still they they didn't move they just just played their instruments, they just stared at the audience. And meanwhile, they create this huge wall of sound, huge it was. Then of course you had Liam at the centre of it, his voice, his hands behind his back, which we hadn't seen before.

It really was, it really was something special. And then I saw him, no, I went to an after show party and I was introduced to Noel there because he'd read my book about the jam. He's a big jam fan, so he'd read that and he kind of knew who I was. And then a couple of weeks later, he invited me down to his flat in Fulham

which he was renting off Johnny Marr and our kind of friendship started from there really but you know the thing about the band you know what Stephen is saying is so right they were just so fresh and so unique in this country rock music had just been dire you know I was much more interested in acid house and hip hop to be honest with you because that's where the really interesting things were happening that's where you got attitude and rebellious spirit and in rock music we just had a thing called shoegazing it was just you know it was uh it wasn't the most exciting at times and oasis came along and they made music really exciting and they made themselves

really exciting and they were fascinating and they had this new attitude where they would talk about you know very openly about their drug use about wanting to go to bed with women about you know the whole rock and roll thing which most people tried to keep under a wrap but they were just completely open about it. Liam was at it again last year. He celebrated the birth of his son Gene by belting a photographer in a pub. Later that day he tried to pick another fight with a snapper outside the Portland hospital. Very swaggering, came from the you know Stephen said the working class thing was was, very, very up front. You know, coming from that culture, reflecting it in their music and their attitude.

You know, it's a cliche, but it was just, it wasn't a breath of fresh air. It was a wind, a thunderstorm of fresh air that they created. For those who may not have been around at the time, or for those of us who may not remember, just how big of a deal was Oasis in the mid-90s? It was absolutely huge. People were just fascinated by them. They were fascinated by Liam's belligerence. They were fascinated by Noel's music.

They were fascinated by their interviews. Their first major NME interview and they spent the whole time just quarrelling with each other about why Oasis were important and who was responsible. Liam saying I was and Noel saying no you're not, I am, you're dick and you can do one. If you think rock and roll, if you think rock and roll, it's getting less than you know it. Rock and roll is about being yourself. Rock and roll is about music, music, music. I'm talking about. I had a drink and I had a cigarette.

Rock and roll is about music. I know what it is. It's not about you. It's not about me. It's not about Oasis. It's about the song. No, it isn't. It's not.

And it just took off in such a, I don't know, in a way that was, it was like Beatlemania. I mean, that interview, I mean, what other band has their first NME interview released as a single? It came out as a single over here called Wibbling Rivalry, and it charted. I mean, all things Oasis were suddenly the hottest thing. Like I said, they had a sense of humor, which was unique to them and to Manchester. Everything about them was fresh and intriguing. to them and to Manchester.

Everything about them was fresh and intriguing. Stephen, why do you think Oasis became such a global phenomenon? Yeah, you know, it's fascinating hearing Paolo and other people this week talk about how big Oasis was in England and Europe in general because it is really an interesting perspective to me. The thing I've really gathered this week is that Oasis is almost like a national mascot band for England, it feels like, where people really identify with them as something more than just a rock band, that this is like a band that belongs to us, like a people's band. And it's a little bit

different being here in America. There were other British acts that were breaking through at that time, but I really feel like Oasis stood apart. It's interesting with Oasis in America, because I think with British rock bands, especially at that time, there were a lot of, you know, brick pop groups coming out, and a lot of them didn't translate in America. And a lot of times it's because they read as so specifically British that it's hard for Americans to wrap their heads around it. Like a band like Blur, for instance, I think, if you look at their songs, they felt very specific to a young British person's experience in the 90s. And Oasis had that great mix where you could listen to them and you could hear Liam's voice and

know, okay, he's representing Manchester. I felt very specific to that. But the songs of Oasis have a universal kind of generalized feel to them where you don't have to be from England to get it. You don't have to be from anywhere to get it. There's something about his choruses that just implore you to sing along. You know, you hear them once and you feel like you've already heard the song a million times in the past. Wanderwall, Don't Look Back in Anger, Live Forever. They're very kind of universal type statements. So to me, that was the magic of Oasis, is that they could be a specific type thing,

but also create music that anyone could understand. But at the same time, as I was saying, and Paula was talking about too, the middle, the working class aspect, the fact that these guys came from humble beginnings and they fought their way to rock stardom. It was a very inspiring story. And the fact that they put a song on the first record at the beginning of the record called

Rock and Roll Star. To me, it's like one of the greatest called shots in rock history because they weren't rock stars yet when they made that song. No. And it would have maybe sounded foolish if that album had flopped. But, you know, it of course didn't. And they actually became rock and roll stars. So just that statement of purpose there, it's something that you can relate to even if you're not a rock and roll star. It's something that you can relate to, even if you're not a rock and roll star.

I mean, we all, I think, have those dreams. And to see these guys pull it off, I think, was really inspirational for people who love that band. I think also, you know, what you're talking about with the simplicity of songs is quite pertinent. And that a lot of that comes from their experience of watching football. You go to a British football game, the crowd sings a lot. I don't know if you have it in America, but they make up songs and they sing them. And obviously you have 10,000 people singing in favour of their team. It's a very powerful thing.

And I think Noel picked up on that when he was going to see Manchester City play as a kid. I think he really tapped into the magic of that, that communal chanting and singing is something Oasis really brought to the fore. And it was the first time in years a band had come along and spoken about football. Nobody spoke about football, but they came along and dressed

in Manchester city tops and represented that culture, which is obviously very working class. Yeah, I wanted to piggyback on something Paula was talking about earlier about when Oasis would do interviews. From the beginning, they were both extremely funny interviewees. I mean, they are two of the funniest musicians ever, certainly in rock music. And I think with Oasis, loving this band has always been

like a holistic experience. It's not just about the music. It's about the interviews. It's about, you know, the documentaries. It's about the lore. I think that's really what separates them and probably all the great rock bands from bands that are really good, but maybe the musicians are kind of boring. That every angle covered and what you're saying so true and also one one of the things that that they did which was really clever is in in england you have

a tabloid press which was always looking to um to create scandal to you know find girls who'd slept with with rock stars or boy george's heroin You know, they were always on the lookout for that. But with Oasis, they couldn't do it because Oasis straight away went, yeah, we take loads of drugs. We go with loads of women. We get drunk all the time. We get into fights. And I remember the News of the World very early on had some story

about Liam sniffing lines of cocaine off the top of a coach. And I just felt like the whole country going, yeah, yeah, we know. You know, yeah. So you got anything else to tell us? You know, of course he does, you know. And I think that openness and that honesty really endeared them to a lot of people. When I think along those same lines, Oasis is the rare band that even when they falter musically, they're still fun to follow.

I mean, you know, when a band can fail and still be interesting to me again that sets them apart like that really sets i think the true greats apart and i think oasis has that well and also there was something you said earlier which was really true about them being a national treasure here they are much like a football team they're the people who love oasis love them like a football team and when you love love a football team, you don't support anyone else. You love that team and you always support that team, whatever they're doing. If they go down a division, you still support them.

And so Oasis, after Be Here Now, I would argue, artistically started to really struggle. People still supported them. Oasis were their team. This is their team. So now that they've returned, it's like you know, oh my god, we're back in the game.

It's that football thing again coming into play. That love you have for a team. That loyalty you have. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. not know their own household income. That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing.

In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I want to ask you, Paulo, about the kind of creative dynamic at the heart of the band. You know, like, of course, Oasis is probably just as famous for the sibling rivalry as they are for their songs. What was the relationship like between Noel and Liam in the very early days of the band? I think it was taken for granted that they loved each other. That was never an issue. In Manchester, there is this kind of culture of really pulling people down.

You know, people who think they're a little bit too big for their boots, they love to bring them down. And Oasis were full of that. You know, Liam and Noel would snipe at each other on that level. I mean, he's a brilliant singer for a start-off. And also... of that, you know, Liam and Noel would snipe at each other on that level. I mean, he's a brilliant singer for a start off. And also, so it's not a bad thing to say. Hey, Liam, if you're watching, they started laughing first, all right?

But really what it was about was this fight for the soul of Oasis. You know, why were they so popular? Was it Noel's songs or, as Liam would argue, no, it was me as a front man, people relating to me. And that was the eternal fight. And of course, there's never a correct answer to that question. They just bickered and bickered and bickered over it. And then when it got into Superstar, it then became more serious because all these things become more serious.

You know, I remember one of the documentaries liam saying oh i knew i knew we were getting quite big because suddenly we were in the studio and there were a lot of people there with man bags on you know their record company and the management and suddenly there's all these people in their lives and so everything became serious so therefore things that would have happened pre-nedworth would have been a laugh and dealt with. And that's fine. But after Nedworth, when it all becomes super starry and rock star, it all suddenly becomes very serious and people get much angrier. But that relationship was fascinating.

As Stephen said, it was one of the elements of Oasis that kept you hooked. Were these guys ever going to make up? And did he really mean that about him? And, you know, what's Noel going to think about him doing this? And, you know, it was just constantly interesting. How real is that? Is that like a game and then you, like, you snap each other on Twitter and then you phone each other up afterwards and have a laugh?

Oh, God, no, that's well for real, man. Is it really? We don't like each other, man. A lot of people think, God, no, that's well for real, man. Is it really? We don't like each other, man. A lot of people think we're waiting around, you know what I mean, for a few more noughts on the end for the thing, but they've already offered us loads of money, like millions and millions, but it's not about the money, is it? You know, that dynamic that Paolo was talking about, I think,

is really fascinating because, in a way, that question was answered by their solo careers. To me, whenever I listen to their solo work, I just feel like, don't you see that you complete each other musically? Like you need each other because what's missing from this side, this other side is getting there. When you guys are together, the elements that you both bring to the table, that's what creates this great dynamic that was in Oasis. Stephen, I want to propose that in one of your pieces, you kind of suggested the brothers almost represent two different philosophical positions about what rock and roll is. about what rock and roll is you know like the you you kind of mention the the early wibbling rivalry recording the you know that interview between whether or not getting kicked off of a ferry is rock and roll or if it's a distraction from rock and roll can you expand

on that like how do the brothers represent different poles in the argument about what rock and roll is well it goes back I think to that dynamic that Paula was talking about the idea of you know is it about the songs and is it about the music or is it about being a rock star and with Liam it always felt like it was about being a rock star although I think he cares more about the music than he gets credit for. And then Noel was representing, you know, the music side, although Noel's more of a rock star maybe than he gets credit for. So there definitely is the opposition there that I think both of those guys, to Paolo's point, it seemed like that was a central part of their disagreements. But again, it's not about either or. It's about how those things come together.

If Oasis were just about getting kicked off of ferries or doing drugs or, you know, trashing hotel rooms, no one would care about this reunion because no one wants to think of guys in their 50s doing that. It's about the songs. That's why people care. But at the same time, the reason why there's still a lane for Oasis to come back is that we don't really have a band like them right now. There isn't a band that has that sort of vibe or that attitude to them in the same way that Oasis did. Why don't we have rock stars like that anymore? That's a very good question. I've i you know maybe we're all too comfortable now all we want to do is watch netflix and and get through the day it's a different world now maybe

i i don't know i really don't know i mean the world they came from was very a very different world to what it is now that's for sure yeah i mean i think it you know to paulo's point it is a much different world and i think that there's different expectations from an audience, from what they want from rock and pop stars. I mean, certainly rock bands generally don't ascend to the heights that a band like Oasis ascended to in the nineties. It's just a different world now. I mean, you certainly have the equivalent of rock and pop stars now who do very well and fill stadiums

and people love them. But again, that very kind of specific kind of rock star that you get from Oasis, it is, I think part of a world that maybe isn't around anymore. I mean, they came from a tradition, didn't they?

Of the stones. Right. You know, you know, Liam Singh with John Lennon, because Lennon was always the, the one who would speak out in the Beatles, you know, Jagger with John Lennon because Lennon was always the one who would speak out in the Beatles.

You know, Jagger, John Lydon, big influence. You know, it's that line which in the 80s got kind of put aside. New Romantic came, Glossy Pop came, Wham! Wham! were probably the biggest band of the 80s. George Michael. And it wasn't until the 90s that Nirvana obviously were a big influence and then Oasis. But maybe that line has now finished and we're into a different world.

And like you say, I mean, who's the biggest artist now? They're all women, Beyonce and Taylor Swift. Right. Well, it's also a world too where things don't go away as like they used to yeah there used to be a media environment where you were on magazine covers and you're on MTV yeah and you're on the radio and then someone decided that it's time to have a new generation you would be wiped away whereas now with streaming platforms you know Wonderwall can be the biggest rock song in the world for years you know you can look back

and find this stuff and and I think that's what's happened I think that Gen Z lot of they've discovered Oasis and gone wow this is the band we need in our lives but it's not a current band it's not a contemporary band and maybe Oasis now will again inspire a new generation of people. Was there a moment, Paula, when you realized that Oasis was no longer that countercultural force that they were, say, in the early to mid-90s and suddenly had become... Yeah, the Be Here Now tour. Tell me about that moment. Tell me about that.

Well, when they released the album in late August of 97, in this country, it sold 400,000 copies on the first day. By the third day, that was nearly 700,000 copies. So it was absolutely huge. They went on tour. They did a world tour. I went with them. We went to America and Canada.

And suddenly there were 54 people on the road, roadies and this and that. And suddenly it became a huge enterprise. And suddenly they had responsibilities. And I think Noel was more inclined for those responsibilities to be fulfilled. And twice on that tour, there's quotes from in my book, Forever the People, Noel saying, Liam's boring and I'm boring. The whole thing's boring. And then in New Zealand, they nearly split up. Liam's drunk. He comes on stage.

He starts singing with a kazoo. He gets a kazoo instrument out. So every time he sings a song, he goes, boom, boom, boom, boom. Noel goes mad, goes off stage. They nearly have a fight. They come back on. Noel then walks off again. And then Liam says, right, that's it.

That's the end. And Marcus, I was there. Marcus, his manager, was saying, no, Liam, it's not the end. We've got to do this. We've got to do that. And he just went, Marcus, the magic is gone. And it had. And I think Noel struggled artistically.

I think suddenly he didn't know what to write about. He's got a huge house in the country. He's got the blonde girlfriend. He's got the swimming pool. You know, what are his dreams now? What is he, you know,

and how can he relate to the kid who's on the doll? He can't, you know, it just, it just threw them the whole thing of rock superstar and threw them. You know, Paulo, you kind of,

as you mentioned, there's been such a on again, off again aspect, uh, to their, to their career until 2009 when Noel finally quit the band in what seemed like a pretty definitive way. But, you know, obviously earlier this week, Noel and Liam announced that they're reuniting for a tour of Ireland and the UK. Were you surprised by the announcement?

No, no. I always thought that they would come back together. I think Noel needed, well, he needed a 15-year holiday from Liam. I could understand that. But I think they're addicted to each other. I think that it's unresolved. The whole thing's unresolved. The fact that there's probably £100 million on the table

probably helped a lot as well, I would say. It always comes in handy i would think it does doesn't especially when you just divorced your wife and lost 20 million as noel gallagher has so uh yeah you know i i do uh i i wasn't surprised i was waiting for it i did think that that they would come together what's interesting to me i don't know how you feel steven but they're not making a new album apparently right i mean i wonder if there's just a you know like a let's just get through these shows and see if we can make it and not kill each other and then maybe make a record after that i mean it's unclear at this point if this is going to be a permanent reunion or if they're just doing

these dates and that's it um but yeah, I mean, again, it just seemed inevitable when you have these two guys that, you know, they can do fine on their own. They can have a solo career and sell tickets, but you can also be in one of the biggest bands in the world. You know, you can be, like, how do you resist that at some point? Let me put this next question as provocatively as I can. So like two brothers in their fifties, getting a band back together that aside from two great albums 30 years ago, hasn't really done anything special since. Why do we, and I'm including myself here, why do we care so much about this? You know, when you think about the great rock bands, there's not that many of them left, at least the bands that road, you know, the Stones, for instance, those bands are an endangered species. And, you know, I think there was a time when people looked at this kind of thing with a more cynical point of view, you know, that, oh, this is the cash-in tour. Oh, you're over the hill. You know, you have nothing

new to say. It's just nostalgia, whatever. And people, I don't think, are as cynical about this anymore because there is a realization that once these bands aren't on the road anymore, that that type of rock music isn't going to exist on this level. There'll be great bands, but there won't be this kind of sort of zeitgeist paradigm shifting type group. zeitgeist paradigm shifting type group so i i do think that there is a feeling that maybe this is like a a precious resource or like an endangered species and uh it feels a little more precious for that reason what do you think the uh the odds are that they actually make it through the full run of shows without breaking up how they will do i'll tell you what the only one who's going to mess it up is liam and he's been banging on for years about this. He can't be banging on for years about, I want O-H about, I want O-H about, and then they all finally, okay, we'll do it. No, I'm leaving now. That's it. Me and Patsy are off. Oh, I'm not married to her anymore. Me and the other one are off. You know, I can't see it. Stephen, I'm guessing the question for you is not so much are you going to go see them uh but how many times are you going to go see them on this reunion tour well we'll see i

mean there's a lot of people that want to see them i i don't know what you'll ultimately have to pay to see them i mean there are limits uh to what i can spend and all that sort of thing it's funny because as i've been talking to you i have friends friends who live in London who have been texting me and they're saying, do you want me to buy you a ticket or not? So I'm negotiating ticket pricing as I'm doing this interview with you all. I am excited at the prospect of possibly seeing them in England because I think that's a whole other level. Yeah, you should see them in Manchester.

Yeah, well, that's the shows I'm looking at going to, actually. I've got an inside track, possibly. I just think that would be incredible. I just wonder if you'll actually be able to hear the band over the crowd. I mean, I think it's going to be an incredible sing-along. But I mean, what Paulo was saying is right, is that when you have a band like this, people love the band, but in a way love the band,

but in a way the band is just an excuse to get together with just the mass of humanity and actually feel good about being in a group. You know, how many opportunities do we have as humans to be in public and feel like you're part of a positive community? You know, this is really one of the only chances you have for that. So I think that ultimately is what people pay for. They want to be together and enjoy this thing that they all love as a group. Stephen Hyden, Paulo Hewitt, thanks so much for joining us, guys. Thank you.

Hey, no problem whatsoever. That's all for today. Frontburner was produced this week by Derek Vanderwyk, Joyita Semgupta, Matt Mews, and Ali Janes. Sound design was by Mackenzie Cameron, Marco Luciano, and Sam McNulty. Music is by Joseph Chabison. Our senior producer is Elaine Chao. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Locos.

I'm Jonathan Mopetze. FrontBurner will be back next week. Thanks for listening.