Front Burner - Doug Ford returns from political exile

Episode Date: October 30, 2019

Ontario Premier Doug Ford is back in the public eye and is striking a more diplomatic tone in a bid to improve his dismal approval rating. Today on Front Burner, CBC’s Ontario legislature reporter Mike Crawley explains how Ford’s government plans on turning things around and what’s changed.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. It's back. The legislature resumed here at Queen's Park today after the longest recess in 25 years. For about the last five months now, there's been a notable absence in both Ontario and federal politics. And its name is Doug Ford.

Ford's polling was in the tank. Ontario Premier Doug Ford is polling somewhere between pink eye and stomach flu right now. That is a real challenge for the Conservatives. Largely because his government was moving fast and breaking a lot of things, which made him unpopular enough to get booed at the Raptors parade. And unpopular enough for the federal Conservatives to put some distance between Ford and the ridings they needed to win around Toronto. A lot of distance. One of Ford's few public events during the federal campaign took place in Kenora, which is literally about 2,000 kilometers away from Queen's Park. But this week, the legislature is back, and so is Ford. And interestingly,

he's striking a much different tone. So what's changed? Why? And what comes next? My colleague Mike Crawley covers Ontario's legislature, and we're going to get into all of that today on FrontBurner. FrontBurner. Mike, welcome back to the pod. Hey, Jamie. Thanks for being here. Good to be here. Always one of our favorites, so, and one of our favorite things to talk about. Okay, many months of what felt like an exile, a Doug Ford exile. He is back making headlines this week. And there's been a lot said about Ford being essentially told or nudged to stay off the radar all these months because of fears that he could hurt Conservative leader Andrew Scheer.

We've talked about that on this podcast many times. His approval ratings have been dismal. But what else have you been hearing about the purpose of this hiatus? Look, Premier Doug Ford needed to do this for himself. Not just about Andrew Scheer. Absolutely. You know, there's this idea that somehow, you know, the big folks at Conservative headquarters in Ottawa told Doug Ford to do this. That isn't how it works.

He knew that he needed to have a reset. And so, you know, since the beginning of June, he's done a bunch of things. You know, he shuffled his cabinet, major cabinet shuffle, got rid of the finance minister who delivered the budget only a few weeks earlier. His chief of staff left. This is the controversial Dean French, who many blamed, even within the Conservatives, of creating kind of a toxic environment at Queen's Park for staff and for MPPs. He left amid a nepotism scandal. Right. Let's talk about that a little bit more, this patronage scandal. The premier rescinded two plum appointments this morning after reports revealed

two of the appointees are tied to his chief of staff, Dean French. So Dean French, the premier's top political advisor, left shortly after it got revealed that people who were closely connected to him, partly through relatives of his wife, also through the lacrosse movement, which he's been involved in, had got some really

plum appointments, six-figure salary jobs as trade representatives for Ontario. And so that was, in some ways ways the final straw for Dean French. Now, when he resigned, Dean French didn't say that it had anything to do with the nepotism scandal that was brewing around him. Basically, the announcement that came out from the Premier's office was that he was going to pursue other opportunities and that he had never intended to stay around as Chief of staff for very long.

Do you really think, when I walk down the street in Alberta, people worry about being French? Do you think they worry about anything? Do you know what they worry about? They worry about a job. But the key thing is that he was in large part responsible for, you talked about the moving fast and breaking things method of the Ford government. Very central figure here. Yeah. So it was kind of a sort of take no prisoners, act as if you've got a really, really big mandate to do whatever you want. And I think one of the changes that's happened over the past few months is that Premier Doug

Ford is listening more to people who are saying to him, you know, we're making mistakes. And just because you want a big majority doesn't mean that, you know, damn the torpedoes, you can just forge ahead and not worry about the consequences. Right. Essentially that it was a mandate to do whatever you want. That's not necessarily what he's given. Everything from cutting Toronto City Council in half to the attempt to appoint Doug Ford's friend, Ron Tavernerner as the commissioner of the OPP. Yeah, we've talked about this on the podcast before.

Absolutely. The kid in that van. Controversy continues to swirl around the choice of a new provincial police chief. On the heels of allegations of favoritism and political interference in the selection process, Premier Doug Ford now faces a serious allegation that his office asked the force to hide a questionable expense. So all of these things that were piling up and then the budget, no, the budget, the big problem with the budget for Doug Ford was that there were all these cuts that were kind of hidden from us. So instead of a big rip the bandaid off moment on budget day to

say, you know, we've got to make some tough choices. The cuts were buried and we found out about them as reporters sort of day after day after day after day. And it meant a whole bunch of bad publicity for the Ford government. And we talked about this with you before on the podcast, the idea that it just felt like every day there was a cut headline. Yeah. And that was because of the way they went about it, trying to make it seem as if the budget wasn't such a slash and burn sort of thing. So by the time June came and Ford's polling numbers had fallen off a cliff thing for the Ford government to try to pick itself up from the floor to which it had fallen. So he kind of returned this week to the public spotlight.

You see him give a bunch of interviews, CP2 for the Toronto Star, which, you know, a bit of a difficult relationship to the public spotlight. You see him give a bunch of interviews, CP2 for the Toronto Star, which, you know, a bit of a difficult relationship with the Fords. And that dates back to their time when Doug Ford and his brother Rob were at Toronto City Hall and some perception that the Toronto Star was going after them. I actually did a total double take when I walked by the Toronto Star's office at Queen's Park, which is right beside mine. And I saw, oh yeah, there's the Premier in there chatting to Rob Benzie and Rob Ferguson. What? I

really couldn't believe it. And Rob Benzie told me afterwards that he got five minutes notice and the Premier, you know, appeared. So they're on a they're trying to make nice. I think they're definitely trying to show some goodwill towards the media.

The new chief of staff is a former journalist himself, Jamie Wallace, who used to be with the Toronto Sun. Right, this is who has now replaced Dean French. Yeah, so the new chief of staff that's replaced Dean French has a more positive attitude towards the media. attitude towards the media. And I've even noticed many people that this was driven from Dean French, that they could not be seen to be, you know, chummy with journalists at all. Like even just talking to them. That's such an interesting anecdote, hey? Like just that the holes feel different

in come September. It feels like as if the progressive conservatives realize that they need to have good relations with the media, that they need to rehabilitate their image. in question period is a lot more respectful. They're not, there's entire times where the opposition leader, Andrew Horvath of the NDP is talking and there's not a single heckle coming from the benches of the government, which is totally different from what it was like before.

My next question is for the Premier. You know, the Premier spent most of the past five months either hiding or in damage control. Last year, this premier insisted that not a single person in our province would lose their job and that our schools, hospitals and public services would improve. Totally, I mean last year was really marked by these raucous moments where

they would all stand up and have these crazy standing ovations and there would be all of this heckling. It's very regrettable some of the words that are being used in this legislation today. Very regrettable. Toronto will have the same number of councillors as Ottawa, a city with one-third of Toronto's population. So I ask you again, why is this? So this is like a real departure from that, hey?

It's a total 180, and I figure that it's a big pendulum shift, and it'll probably get back to a little bit more normal, because honestly, it's a little weird, right? Like, to actually have no little heckles happening? Yeah, because that is the culture of the place, too. It did happen when Kathleen Wynne was Premier as well. Absolutely. Maybe not to the extent, but... It's the opposition's job to yell a little bit and, you know, poke at the government and the other way around.

So I don't know how long it'll last, but it is a sign that they're trying to at least set a different tone, but not necessarily a different direction in terms of the government. And that's what we got to wait and see. Okay. So let's talk about that. What do you think some of the biggest obstacles that Doug Ford and his government need to overcome now? Okay. Well, the number one obstacle that they've got staring them right

in the face is getting a deal with the teachers unions without a strike. So we talked about this last time on the podcast, these these cuts that came and the rising class sizes, high school class sizes, and teachers are fearing job losses. So there's, you know, already been a number of teachers who have been laid off because of the changes that have been made. The negotiations are happening somewhat publicly, interestingly, the High School Teachers Union putting all of their proposals on the table. So we actually know how far apart they are from what the government is talking about. The government is proposing a pretty significant increase to class sizes, which would mean, you know, a number of teachers losing their jobs.

So, look, we could see a strike as early as 18th of November in Ontario from the teachers. Now, during the past few weeks, they managed to prevent a strike from by the school support workers, the education workers represented by CUPE. Parents in Ontario breathing one collective sigh of relief this morning. The strike is off. School is on. But the teachers' unions are a bigger deal. That's probably the number one obstacle. And the idea here being that they're not necessarily going to back down on some of these financial cuts that they're making.

Well, look, there's more wiggle room in the province's finances than the government was making out. Right. You heard them say at the beginning that they'd inherited a 15 billion dollar deficit from the Wynne government. Well, it turns out that number was totally inflated. The deficit actually that they inherited is about seven and a half billion. So there could be some deals made. And obviously, the negotiating posturing is happening right now. But yeah, so that's the biggest obstacle. But I think the bigger political obstacle really is turning around the battleship, getting the momentum back because, you know, their momentum has only been downward. And so they've got to change Ontarians' perceptions that this is a government that is slashing and burning, change perceptions that this is a government that doesn't keep their promises, change perceptions that, yeah, this is an arrogant government that doesn't really care if what it does, you know, causes a bunch of disruption. Right. So that's why the change in tone is important

because they've got a lot of goodwill rebuilding that needs to happen because stuff was really broken down in their first year. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. I want to talk about Doug Ford and sort of the national picture. Sure. So, you know, obviously he's emerged from this hiatus to a new political landscape of minority liberal government on the federal level. And also a surprise hearing him this week and

in the various interviews that he gave. He wants to work with Ottawa. He wants to work with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. And how much of this is spin and how much do you think it's Ford realizing how instrumental Ottawa is in getting things done? Look, I think Premier Ford's true desire to work with Prime Minister Trudeau is approximately the same as Prime Minister Trudeau's desire to work with Doug Ford. So really high, obviously. Look, these are the words that politicians put out after an election because, you know, they accept the results that people are always right and let's work together.

But look, Justin Trudeau spent the last six weeks trashing Doug Ford's policies on the campaign trail. And up until he went into his exile, Doug Ford had nothing good to say about Prime Minister Trudeau. So, look, there's no love lost between these two. Clearly, they are political opponents. They have to work together on some funding things. And so there's mutual opportunity on a topic like building subways in Toronto.

They both want to do that. Trudeau has committed to providing some federal funding to Doug Ford's big subway plan for the city. I did thank the Prime Minister for supporting our transit line. And people in this province expect all three levels of government to work together, no matter what political stripe they come from. So on that thing, they're on the same page. There's not a lot else that they're going to necessarily work together well on.

And still very much at loggerheads over the carbon tax, which Ford signals this week he's going to continue to fight. Yeah, that was going to be my example of how they say they want to work together, but in this case, Ford's completely opposed to the federal carbon pricing model, and they're going to take that fight all the way to the Supreme Court. Right, right. So much so, there has been sort of this sticker saga at gas stations all over the province. The Ontario government decided that they didn't like the carbon tax so much that they are forcing gas stations to post stickers that show how much the carbon tax is going to cost you. And the stickers, kind of to the bemusement of some people, they started peeling off.

Yeah, they didn't work. But today, in the legislature, the government's now denying that it was a problem with the stickers peeling, but that actually opponents were going around and peeling off the stickers, deliberately committing vandalism and accusing a Liberal staffer of doing this and actually bragging about it. A word to the Minister of Energy, Logan Bell. I want to thank the Honourable Member, Mr. Speaker, and I would point out to him that the only problem that we've had

with stickers are our Liberal staffers actually peeling them off gas pumps. You might want to check your Twitter account to see one that openly admitted. So maybe it's not so conciliatory there after all. The talk of national unity, you know, that he's mentioned recently. He's talked about Ontario's role in bringing the country together. He's talked about how divided he thinks the country seems after this election. It's like as if he's had this sudden realization

that the role of the Ontario premier is important within confederation. Given that Ontario is the biggest province, it's only natural that the premier has an important role in confederation. Ford hasn't seemed all that interested in that.

I mean, this is a guy who, when he first started running for the PC leadership, he kept tripping up by saying things about the people of Toronto. Seemed very fixated on Toronto. Yeah, as if he forgot that he was actually running to be the leader of a provincial party. And so the level of interest in nation building and national politics hasn't seemed to have been there. But he has been interested in opposition to Prime Minister Trudeau, partly as a potential political foil for him. Right, right. And of course, we know he's been chummy with other conservative premiers, especially Alberta Premier Jason Kenney.

And he's really taking on a prominent role right now. He's talking a lot about Alberta and its place in the country. And how do you see this playing out, the relationship between these two? Yeah, Doug Ford and Jason Kenney have certain things in common in the sense of a sort of a bit of a populist touch. There isn't a lot necessarily, though, that Ontario can do to help Alberta. You know, Premier Ford can kind of stand up with Kenny as a political ally

and show moral support, political support for Alberta. But I don't know that there's anything necessarily practical that a provincial government, you know, with two provinces in between can necessarily go and do to help the actual situation of what's going on in Alberta. I mean, the extent of it is Ontario can say, we're not going to oppose pipelines going across our territory. Well, that's fine. But then what happens when you hit Quebec? So I think this is more about Premier Ford positioning himself in the wake of the results of the federal election.

All of what has gone on in the past week must be seen through the lens of how the Conservatives did in Ontario, which was terrible. Terrible. Right. Their share of the popular vote, the number of ridings that they won. It was all bad news for the Conservatives. You can say, essentially, Andrew Scheer lost the election because of it, because he didn't get ridings that he needed in the GTI. which was the heart of what got Doug Ford elected provincially. Andrew Scheer could not break through in those ridings around Toronto, unlike what Stephen Harper succeeded at doing in 2011. He won those ridings, partly with the help of Jason Kenney, at the time that he was a federal politician.

So Ford and his advisors are very much trying to deflect blame away from them and from Ford's, the unpopularity of Ford's policies. They're trying to deflect blame for the federal conservative failure in Ontario. And some of the people around Doug Ford are actually the ones who are most loudly calling for Andrew Scheer to step aside or at least some sort of changes to happen there. So I think that's a little bit of what's going on is this is positioning within the conservative movement generally, and also Ford wanting to not look bad for what happened. Right, not be blamed for costing Andrew Scheer the election, because, you know, a lot of people argue Andrew Scheer did that all by himself.

It's clear that there was something specific going on in Ontario different from what was going on outside Ontario in the other provinces. And what is that? It's Doug Ford. Okay. Well, you've given us so many things to watch out for. Mike Crawley, thank you so much. You're welcome, Jamie. So before I let you go today, a bit of news about this podcast, actually. Yesterday was FrontBurner's one-year anniversary. It is hard to believe the time has really flown by. We actually want to take this opportunity to thank all of you for listening and sticking with us as we got the show up and running and for giving us your feedback. We are so, so appreciative. And I just really want to thank this incredible team for all their hard work and dedication and for just being wonderful colleagues.

Here's hoping we can really push it again this year and that you'll all stick with us for the ride. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening to Front Burner and see you all tomorrow.