Front Burner - ‘Fear’ and ‘panic’: stories inside Canada’s ERs

Episode Date: December 13, 2022

A surge of respiratory illness is putting pressure on an already overloaded healthcare system in many places across the country and making it even harder for many Canadians to get examined by their family doctors, at walk-in clinics and even in the emergency room. Today we’ll be hearing personal stories from people who say they’ve struggled to get timely access to the medical care they desperately needed. Julia Murray is a mom in Conception Bay South in Newfoundland whose 3-year-old son Jack came down with an awful fever in early December. Bianca Gallant of Memramcook, New Brunswick, says she recently had a 14 hour wait in a Moncton ER that ended in her needing emergency surgery.

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That gratitude for his health is undercut by a real fear about what will happen next time. If this continues, kids are going to die here this winter. I believe that. I do believe that. Based on my very limited experience, I'm waving a red flag. And I hope that someone listens. So that's Emer O'Toole in Montreal. She recently went viral after sharing how hard it was to get medical attention for her 15-month-old son. He has asthma, and between ER wait times, overrun walk-in clinics,

and a shortage of the antibiotic her son needed to treat what was eventually diagnosed as pneumonia, Emmer says Quebec's overloaded health care system had her fearing for her boy's life. Emmer is now calling on the province to address shortfalls in pediatric care. And she's not the only one who's worried. ERs across the country are experiencing a surge of respiratory illnesses. And in British Columbia, six children have died this fall after contracting the flu. And it's not just kids being affected. Emergency rooms all over Canada are overcrowded and in crisis right now.

It's a story we've been covering, and today we'll be hearing personal stories from people who say they've struggled to get timely access to the medical care they desperately needed. We're going to start with Julia Murray. She's a mom in Conception Bay South in Newfoundland. in Conception Bay South in Newfoundland. Like a lot of other places, the province has been dealing with a surge in respiratory illnesses among children. And Julia's here to share what happened when her three-year-old son, Jack, came down with an awful fever earlier this month.

Hi, Julia. Thank you so much for being here today. Hi, thank you for having me. So tell me, when did you know that Jack needed medical attention? Well, I guess it started out that he had a fever and he just was very lethargic and just wasn't himself. And I mean, having a toddler that's sick is common, especially if they're in daycare or preschool. So I didn't really worry in the beginning. I just rotated the medication. But what made me start to panic was that even when I was rotating the medication, his fever was not breaking. And it was, if anything, it was getting higher. There

was one point where his temperature was 42 degrees and he was hallucinating in the evenings. I slept with him every night and he was hitting me and it was very, very scary. So at that point, I realized that doing the weighted out method probably wouldn't work. So tell me what you did. So the next step, when I woke up in the morning, I called my family doctor. No, I called 811 first, actually, and just kind of told them what was happening with him. And they said that he needed to see a doctor within 24 hours because his fever had gone on so long and it wasn't breaking. So I then called my doctor and tried to get an appointment, but they couldn't fit me in until the following week,

which was seven days after he already had a fever for three days. So when they said they didn't have availability, I decided to take him up to their clinic and go and kind of bang on the door and see if they could squeeze me in. If I had him in my arms, they saw how miserable he was, maybe they could squeeze him in. But when they did that, the same thing, I was told that he's full, he reaches capacity for the day. So he didn't have any availability. So then I left and I went to the Janeway,. He had reached his capacity for the day, so he didn't have any availability. So then I left, and I went to the Janeway, which is our emergency room here for children. And when I walked in, it was packed.

There wasn't an empty seat, and it was the same thing. All children just strewn about with blankets and their parents. And I was told I was going to be there for several hours. So then in my, I guess, panic, I decided to try some nurse practitioner offices. I thought, you know, if I could pay for a visit, I would do that. I mean, you know, I have the availability to do that. But all of them were booked up for the week as well. So then I went and tried two different walk-in clinics and was told the same thing. They're all full.

tried two different walk-in clinics and was told the same thing. They're all full. And it wasn't until I had, I guess, the last walk-in clinic I went to, which is the picture I have on my Facebook post, when she told me that they were full and I turned and I think out of frustration, I just started to well up. She told me to come back in the morning and at seven o'clock and line up to get in. That's what I did. And when you're there at seven o'clock and line up to get in that's what I did. And when you're there at seven o'clock in the morning what was it were there other people there as well? Yes when I got there at seven there was about a dozen people ahead of me and it was it's cold I mean it was minus temperatures and we were all just stood up in the parking lot waiting and while I was waiting about two dozen people lined up behind me before they opened up the doors. Everyone in the same position, I guess.

When you couldn't get the help that you needed, just tell me what that made you feel like as a mom. I was panicked. And I mean, I was desperate. It reached a point where, you know, I was downloading apps left, right and center that I was on the mom groups on Facebook and people were saying, do this, do this, do this app. And I had about three apps downloaded and I was signed up. But the wait times were the same thing.

It was, you know, three or 400 people ahead of me. But it was panic. I mean, you know, you don't want your child to be suffering. And especially when you know that it's something that could be easily resolved. I mean, he just needed antibiotics. I knew that. I knew that trying to treat the fever wasn't going to solve the problem. We had to get to the root of the issue, right? Yeah. And when you went the next day to the walk-in clinic, I'm assuming you were given a prescription. Yes. Yeah. He has, we both had strep throat and he had a double ear infection. So they gave him antibiotics and we both went and as soon as he got the antibiotics, probably two or three, I think three days later,

he started to come around, his fever broke. But I mean, when I spoke to the doctor that day, I asked, if I didn't see you today and I waited a week to see my doctor, would he be in pain and would he have gotten better? And my doctor said, no, he needed antibiotics. Imagine even that extra night that you had to wait was like torturous, hey? It was. Yeah, it's bad. I mean, you know, you don't want to see your child like that. It's just, you know, it's cellular. I think, you know, as a mother, when you have a child, like it's a cellular kind of pain. Like he is part of me. So when he is suffering like that, I feel it. And it's just, I just want to take it away. I want to take away

that pain. Poor little guy and a double ear infection too. I just wanted to ask you about when you went to the hospital and there were kids everywhere, were you told what the wait was going to be like? Well, what I was told is that they prioritize it. So when you go in there, they're going to have you go into the side where it's like the kids with fevers and the viral side, let's call it. And then as the emergencies come in, like someone has a broken leg or something like that, they'll obviously triage you and change the priority. So it's tough to give an exact time. But talking to people that were there, other parents were there like six hours just waiting.

You mentioned that you're on a bunch of mom groups uh what what are you hearing from other parents where you live uh well to be honest when i when i posted this uh this facebook rant i'll call it i didn't didn't expect for it to to kind of go as far as it did i just kind of was frustrated and exhausted i just wanted to to get my thoughts out on paper, let's say, metaphorically. And when I woke up the next morning, I had gotten so many messages from parents, not only here in Newfoundland, but across Canada, just saying that they're in the same kind of boat and that they've experienced the same things. And they feel like, you know, the panic of just trying to get your child seen.

You know, as an adult, like if I have strep throat, I knew I had strep throat. I could tell my throat was swollen. I could tell looking at my throat. But as a three-year-old, he doesn't know that. I mean, he couldn't communicate those things. So I think that's where the disconnect is. Like the children, they can't tell you it's as bad as it is. You know, you kind of got to just look for the signs, right?

So all the parents, I think all the ones I've spoke to were all in the same boat. They were all very grateful that we should start this conversation around improving the health care for our children. You talked earlier about how kids that age get sick all the time. From one mom of a toddler to another, I feel you. This is the beginning of cold and flu season. Of course, we're dealing with RSV and COVID too. And so how worried are you about the next time that Jack gets sick? Well, I mean, it's in the back of my mind every time.

Like if I hear him have a cough or if he sneezes, I think, oh, here we go, like round four. And it's hard not to think that way and to kind of replay everything that I went through. But I think here in Newfoundland, there's been some small changes made in terms of the walk-in clinic now has, the one that I went to has designated designated certain percentage of their appointments to children so if you go in there at 8 30 they'll they'll fit you in they'll save so many appointments for the day so i think there's small changes being made but um but same same token now i mean he went back to preschool today for the first time in a couple weeks and you know when i went in through the door i just the hair stood up on my neck so i was thinking you know what's he going to come home with type thing.

Sad, sad, sad thoughts. I mean, you know, you want him to be out there and, you know, making friends and having all these experiences, but you know, I just, I really don't want him to go through what he went through again. I feel the exact same way. I know exactly how you feel when you say that. But it sounds like you're doing such a wonderful job. And I really want to thank you so much for coming onto the show and sharing your story. No problem. Thank you again for having me. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection.

Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. household income. That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I was having really bad contractions, you know, standing holding onto the side of our truck and just trying to get inside and get registered in an ER full of sick people. For a lot of people, having a baby is a really stressful situation. For Kendra and Ken Duvall, it was downright harrowing. They put me in a wheelchair and

they took me upstairs and I was just, I was completely panicked. I was erratic. I wasn't even, didn't feel like I could breathe properly. Like I was in, I was in so much pain and they just said like, you know, get, get ready, get undressed right away. We have to check you and see where you are. And everything was just, it was happening so fast. I kept saying to them, like, I actually said at several points during the labor, I can't do this. I'm going to die. Like, I just, I didn't feel safe.

In late November, after the Winchester District Memorial Hospital closed its birth unit overnight due to staffing shortages, Kendra and Ken struggled to find a place to deliver their newborn baby up until the very last terrifying minute. The new parents recently sat down with CBC Ottawa reporter Christine Neese to share their story. Ottawa reporter Chrissy Neese to share their story. Yeah, I would definitely describe it as traumatic.

Like I've had a hard time sleeping, obviously. I think about what happened. I think about what could have happened. It's terrifying how close we came. I was due to have the baby on November 20th and a week before my due date I was at my OB's office for a routine follow-up and I learned that that night the hospital would have a closure due to staffing shortages. So I asked my OB what would happen to me if that happened in a week from now after my due date. And I was told, you know, the hospitals are always in communication with each other. And that if for some reason my hospital had to close, that somebody else would be able to take us.

Another hospital could take us and handle the delivery then on the day that he was due I started having a few contractions the next day I the contractions were more so we went to the hospital to get checked out a day later I was still having contractions but more severely so we we went back to the hospital to get checked and it happened to be on Tuesday night November 22nd so there was a closure that was going to happen overnight from 11 p.m until 7 a.m within less than an hour after we got home my water broke while I was in bed the nurse had made arrangements for us to go to another hospital if that happened when we were home. So my husband had the paperwork here on the counter and he called when my water broke and the hospital said that they didn't have any more space. So we couldn't go there. We ran into some complications whereas the cord was wrapped around the baby's neck and the cord was too short to be able to unwrap it manually so they had to cut it while Kendra

was pushing so they had to tell her to stop pushing to cut the umbilical cord so that the baby could come out safely. Taking that into account, that complication, if we would have waited longer at home, she potentially would have had to deliver the baby in the vehicle, and if that would have happened, the baby would have probably died from the cord around its neck. cord around its neck. A spokesperson for Winchester District Memorial Hospital, where the Duval's ended up having the emergency berth, told CBC News in an email, these short-term closures usually happen a few times per year, but with the staffing challenges affecting all of health care, it happened more often earlier this year and through the summer.

In November, the unit was closed six times, each time due to staffing. The next person I spoke to is Bianca Gallant of Memra Cook, New Brunswick. Bianca says her recent visit and 14-hour wait in an emergency room in Moncton inspired her to help organize a rally demanding health care improvements in the province. Hi, Bianca. Thanks so much for making the time to speak with me today. Yes, thank you for inviting me to come speak with you. So let's start with the day you went to the hospital. How were you feeling when you decided to call 911? I imagine pretty desperate, eh? Yeah, I was in excruciating pain Like I felt like somebody would have taken my insides out and

lit them on fire and put them back in. It hurt really bad. Like I knew something was wrong. And just tell me a little bit more about how you're feeling your insides like everywhere or? Mainly in my abdomen area. Mm hmm. And when you got to the emergency room, how long did it take you to be seen by a doctor? It was about 14 hours before I was seen. Wow. And what was happening to you during that time? Like, what were your symptoms like?

It was still, like, I had the same pain and it was kind of getting worse. And eventually, all of a sudden, my lungs wouldn't expand anymore. So I wasn't able to breathe anymore. And I started going into medical distress. And it kind of just the pain spread like everywhere through my torso at that point. So you're at the hospital and it's getting worse. And are you able to speak with people in the emergency room with a nurse or with somebody in intake? Yeah, there was a triage nurse who was coming out to take the next number. And I started panicking and I asked him if he could come over right away because I couldn't breathe anymore.

And I started panicking because obviously when you can't breathe, you panic. And he kept telling me I needed to calm down and my name was going to be one of the next ones called. And it made me kind of panic more because he was kind of telling me my name was going to be one of the next ones called all day and it never got called. And I started panicking and then I tried to sit quietly and then I felt even more pain and felt like I was going to be sick. So it's kind of vague in that moment. But then a doctor came out, she seen that I was in medical distress and she came and got me right away. What was the waiting room like? What was the hospital like while you were going through this and sitting there for 14 hours? I mean, there was people in the waiting room, but there was still seats available for people to sit down.

Did anybody tell you why the wait was 14 hours? Nope, I've never had an answer about that either. The Vitally Healthcare had mentioned in the news there was no staffing shortage that day, there was beds available, and there was especially beds available for patients who needed care for what I was describing happened. it sounds so awful what you're describing you're in excruciating pain and you're panicking just tell me a little bit more about how you were feeling in that moment. What was going through your head? I was really scared. I told everybody, like the nurses, the doctors, everyone, that I was scared. I was apologetic because I kind of felt like a burden.

I wasn't sure what was going on. I felt like I was going to die, honestly. I was scared. I just kept repeating that I was scared and this was unlike me and I knew something was wrong. And yeah, it was a big, big emotion of fear. What happened when you finally got looked at when that doctor came and got you? She pushed me to a room that was outside of the emergency room. She helped me get onto the bed and passed me a garbage because I was vomiting everywhere. And she introduced herself.

She started administering pain medication through an IV she had given me. They tried to get me in for an MRI. So I went to the MRI room and I couldn't lay flat down. Every time I would go to lean back, even my body would just naturally push itself up because I couldn't breathe. And your body goes in shock when you have a big internal bleed like that. And they tried a few times to prompt me up with three, four pillows. So I could just lean back enough to fit under the machine. After several attempts, we weren't able to get me under the machine. So the man who ran the machine said to me, oh, we'll send you back to emerge and we'll try to get you back after. So I went back to emerge. My partner had showed up at the hospital at this time and they were administering more stuff into me because

they were trying to get me in a stable enough condition that I could lay down so I could go in the machine I'm not sure the exact time frame he said between 30 minutes to an hour it took and I remember going back to the machine when it said, hold your breath. I just kind of let myself not breathe. And I wasn't left under the machine very long. And they came running to me and they put me on the stretcher and the person who was pushing me ran to emerge. And that's when I was told there was a very large abnormal amount of blood and fluid in my abdomen area and that I needed to go for emergency surgery right away. Wow. Wow. And so you got that surgery, that emergency surgery? Yes, I did. I think a few hours after that. So I arrived at the hospital around like seven in

the morning and it would have been around 1231 AM before I actually went into the operating room. Wow. Wow. What happened during the surgery? Um, there was one surgeon that I had met before the surgery. Um, and then there was another one who joined her during the surgery, which was a general surgeon. They removed my right ovary, my fallopian tubes, which the fallopian tubes, I had given her permission before I went in that she could take them. The ovary, she told me, was bleeding. And I had 2.5 liters of blood removed from my abdomen area and my flank area. Wow. And they weren't able to get all of it.

I went to ICU the next day. I was really, really weak. The general surgeon came in and he told us, my partner and I, that I was minutes away from death and I was very lucky to be alive. Do you think about how things might have been different had you been seen earlier? Yeah, I do. Excuse me. I also was told by a few friends who are nurses themselves that they were surprised that I didn't go for scope or get an ultrasound because that's usually the first thing testing that's done when somebody has abdominal pains. I feel like I wouldn't have had an internal bleed with so much blood removed from me if I would have been seen earlier that they probably would have caught it earlier rather than me having to go for an emergency surgery.

How do you think you got this bleeding in the first place? I'm not really sure. I did fly off of my horse a few weeks prior to actually going to Emerge. The week before I went and got the surgery, I was actually at Emerge in the same hospital. I had a feeling like my brain was on fire. And I waited 10 to 11 hours in Emerge. And I figured, oh, they're not seeing me. It's not anything too important. So I came home and I dealt with it for a few days.

And then the following week, I ended up having this happen. After going through these experiences, how much confidence do you have in the health care system to help you or someone that you love during an emergency right now? I don't have too much confidence. I definitely don't blame the healthcare workers either, but the system definitely needs to change because I don't have confidence that I can even call 911 for myself or one of my kids and that an ambulance will show up in a timely manner. And that's not just for me that's for like everybody specifically in the

Moncton region we've been having ambulances come from posted an hour to two hours sometimes away because our ambulances are held up at the hospitals. Bianca thank you so much for this I hope that you're you're feeling better now are you doing okay now? I am doing better than I was. It's slowly getting better. I more have a lot of emotion of fear and like I'm traumatized obviously but it all comes with like healing. It's a scary thing when you go through

what I've gone through and things I've witnessed and seen over the last few weeks, just being in a few different hospitals. And it's scary. I really want to thank you for being so open and sharing your experience with us. Yes. Thank you for having me. And I appreciate it. I hope that the care system can change. So just to note here, the hospital that Bianca says she was treated at is part of the Vitality Health Network in New Brunswick. Like Bianca mentioned, a spokesperson for the network said they could not comment on a specific incident, but the network's senior vice president of clinical programs and medical affairs said there was no shortage of ER staff and there were available beds on November 18th, the day that Bianca was treated.

That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.