Front Burner - Fear, isolation and a cross-Canada manhunt

Episode Date: July 26, 2019

Today on Front Burner, the CBC’s Jason Proctor tells why the ongoing manhunt for two B.C. murder suspects has left many residents of Canada’s north feeling vulnerable and afraid.

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And I'm Victoria Dinh. The Pit, a story about the murder of Sherry Furtuck. Subscribe at cbc.ca slash the pit or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Matthew Braga, in for Jamie Poisson. We've got an episode today about the ongoing manhunt for two B.C. murder suspects. But obviously, this story is unfolding pretty quickly. And while we've tried our best to keep as up-to-date as possible, well, podcasts, they're not live. So keep that in mind. Okay, here's the show.

It started as a series of upsetting but seemingly disconnected events. A burned-out car, a couple found dead, two friends gone missing. Early in the investigation, the deaths were deemed suspicious. I may be an experienced police officer, but today I'm standing here as the father of a murder victim. Then, eventually, a bigger picture emerged. Additional information led police to discover a body at a nearby highway pullout. 19-year-old Cam McLeod and 18-year-old Briar Schmigelski seen yesterday in Manitoba. Cam and Briar are no longer considered missing.

And now, a Canada-wide manhunt is underway. Today, we pull together all the threads of the story and what we know so far. The CBC's Jason Proctor is with me. He's been covering the story from Vancouver and rural BC. This is FrontBurner. Jason, thank you for joining us. Oh, thank you for having me. So I want to go all the way back to Monday, July 15th, because that is the day that bodies of an Australian man, Lucas Fowler, and his American girlfriend, China Deese, are discovered in northern B.C.

And I want you to tell me, under what circumstances were the couple found? Well, basically, their bodies were found at the side of the road. This would be the Alaska Highway. We were just going down the highway and came around the corner and there was that van with the hood up. Sandra Broughton says she and her husband may have been among the last people to see the couple alive. They pulled over to help them around 3.30 on Sunday. Oh, I was horrified. Like, just to think we'd just seen them. They were driving kind of a blue 1986 Chevy van. The van was on the scene.

kind of a blue 1986 Chevy van. The van was on the scene. They had been shot. This is so out of the ordinary for what anybody kind of traveling through northern BC would expect to come across. And so obviously this sort of sparked immediate concern. And so kind of everything began. This investigation is in its very infancy,

and it's not yet clear whether Lucas and Chyna were targeted or if this was a crime of opportunity. At this point, we have nothing to indicate that their deaths are linked to any other active and ongoing investigations in that area of the province. And what have their families had to say about this? Well, you know, they've both been very vocal about this. Lucas Fowler's father came to Well, you know, they've both been very vocal about this. Lucas Fowler's father came to Canada, you know, and spoke to the media. He was having the time of his life traveling the world. He met a beautiful young lady, and they teamed up.

They were a great pair, and they fell in love. You know, it's a love story that's ended tragically. It really is. It's the worst ever love story. China Deese's mother has been, we've spoken to her from North Carolina where she lives. I mean, they're just absolutely devastated that this could have happened. You know, I would tell my friends,

what if China gets married and they move to Australia? That's so far. And, you know, over the past few days, I'm like, could I please have that option? This sounds like because you kind of get the perspective from both families, you know, whose loved ones live on opposite sides of the globe and who were engaged in this love story he came to see her parents they loved him she was looking forward to going to australia to meet his parents and so it sounded like you had two soul mates who were on this trek of a lifetime and the families have been absolutely devastated because they were living vicariously through the love and the adventures of their

children. I have one less child and I have three very sad children. They always say, you know, mom can only be as happy as her saddest child. And I have three broken kids. broken tears. So I want to move on to Friday. So this is a week ago now when police made another discovery, some 470 kilometers away from where the couple's bodies were found. And maybe you can tell me, what did they find? Yeah, So what happens is it's Friday morning. It's a small RCMP detachment in the community of Dees Lake, a four-man detachment. They get a call that there's been a burning truck sighted, sort of a gray truck with a camper. They're on the scene there and somebody drives by and says, hey, we think we saw a body about two kilometers away in a pullout.

So they send officers down there. Sure enough, there is the body of a man who now has been identified as Leonard Dick on the side of, you know, this pullout. And so they set up another crime scene there. The whole thing is erupting, basically. And, you know, as they described it from talking to police there, I mean, you know, they're suddenly overwhelmed. This is more than this detachment would ever see. And so you mentioned Leonard Dick. We now know the name of this third victim that's been found. What else do we know about him? of this third victim that's been found. What else do we know about him? Well, you know, his family, again, like the families of Lucas Fowler and China Dees,

absolutely devastated. He was married, I believe had two sons. He was a sessional instructor in botany at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. You know, They're devastated. This is a man who loved nature, who loved the environment. We heard from one friend who worked with him who said he loved to study nature. I wasn't surprised to see where he was actually found because he liked to take these kinds of trips.

I mean, we spent time over the years, you know, he'd show me pictures of these camping trips that he took up north. Sometimes he went with his family. Sometimes he went on his own. But basically, you know, another family devastated. And you'd mentioned that this area is, while it's not popular in the sense of a Grand Canyon type tourist destination, it certainly is frequented by tourists, people who like to drive. Can you give me a bit more of a sense of what this region is like? I mean, are there many roads? What's the terrain like, for example? Just to give you an idea, I mean, we saw probably a dozen black bears, you know, off the road. And we saw a grizzly bear as well, which, you know, is astounding. I mean, we saw probably a dozen black bears, you know, off the road. And we saw a grizzly bear

as well, which, you know, is astounding. I mean, to see right there, there's no cell phone coverage, your cell phone, you know, is dead as soon as basically you leave a place like Smithers and Hazleton and then kind of continue up. There is a power line that they seem to be extending up towards a small community. There's a number of that they seem to be extending up towards a small community. There's a number of small communities which kind of appear from time to time, but I mean, everybody will tell you better gas up while you can because you're going to need it. I've lived up here since the 70s on and off from Casio to Stewart. This doesn't happen up here often. So it is mind-boggling when it does happen. so it is mind-boggling when it does happen.

The landscape is majestic. It goes from kind of dense, you know, forest and what appears to be rolling hills to then these kind of magnificent mountains that are kind of hewn out of rock. You know, some of them look like they're kind of carpeted with, you know, green, I guess, basically. And, you know, the way the sun comes down, it really is anybody's picture book idea of what Canada and particularly northern Canada might be like. It seemed for a while that police were treating the murders of Fowler and Deese and then Dick as separate cases.

But what do we know now? Well, so what happens is remember that when that burning truck was found, there were obviously people driving that. Those guys are kind of announced to be a couple of young guys from Port Alberni named Cam McLeod and Briar Schmigelski. And so there's a burned out truck. The drivers are missing. There is a body found nearby. That body is not either of these two young guys, McLeod or Smigelski. And so the obvious question becomes, where are they? And so actually on Monday afternoon, police hold a press conference to say, you know, any information about these guys would be welcome. Cam is described as 6'4", approximately 169 pounds,

dark brown hair and facial hair with brown eyes. Breyer is described as 6'4", approximately 169 pounds, with sandy brown hair. They were last seen traveling south from the Super 8 General Store in Dees Lake. At that point, they were not linking the three deaths, but they said it is unusual to have this. And people are asking, you know, the obvious questions about whether these might be linked. But it looks like essentially we have three, you know, suspicious deaths in northern British Columbia, and we have two young men who are missing. We certainly are open to those possibilities, and our investigators are speaking to each other, sharing information, and certainly looking at the possibility that they may be linked. and certainly looking at the possibility that they may be linked.

Everything then takes a dramatic turn on Tuesday afternoon because after putting out that plea to the public, clearly they got calls from across the country and they hold another press conference. The RCMP are now considering Cam McLeod and Briar Schmigelski as suspects in the Dees Lake suspicious death and the double homicide of Lucas Fowler and China Dees. And what's more, they have in fact been spotted, reportedly seen driving a Toyota RAV4 in Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan on the Sunday.

We believe that they're likely continuing to travel, though we don't have a possible destination. And so they are far away now from northern B.C. and headed who knows where. We now have this nationwide manhunt underway. It has clearly spread quite far. And I want you to give me a sense of how far are we talking now? I mean, are we past Meadow Lake? Where are we looking now? We're way past Meadow Lake. We're basically as far as you can go without hitting Hudson Bay. The RAV4 turns up burned out outside of a place called Gillom, Manitoba. We're in a whole other province at this point. We're in a whole other province.

Me and the wife and one of our daughters just went out to pick strawberries. So they were just looking around and my wife seen the smoke. Like it was like big flames, like black smoke. Like they were just reaching the wires. And also, you know, I heard the mayor talking about this saying essentially, look, you know, if you're coming to get away from something, this is the worst place for you. It's all a treed in area, a lot of swamp and thick bugs, nasty terrain.

And, you know, again, you kind of have this theme through a lot of this, which is there is only one way in and one way out. way in and one way out. And so at this point, we know that they have both been charged with second degree murder and the death of Leonard Dick. And we know that they are suspects in the deaths of Fowler and Dease. Do we know where they are now? Are they even still in the province? Well, we certainly believe they're in Manitoba. That's the last indication that we have. And

there is a giant manhunt, you know, across Canada for them. But beyond that, that's sort of the million dollar question at this point. So we know now that there are details about these men, particularly about their online activities. Some of this first reported by the Globe and Mail. And I was wondering what you can tell us about what we've learned about them and perhaps what their motivations are. Well, so we've been to Port Alberni, which is the Vancouver Island community where they are both from, you know, and where they knew each other. They attended high school, you know, and worked at a Walmart there together.

You know, Port Alberni is not a giant community itself. You'd pass it if you were on your way from Nanaimo to Tofino, which is, you know, the very west coast of Vancouver Island. You know, the very west coast of Vancouver Island. These guys, according to friends, are, you know, loners, let's say. The father of Cam McLeod says, you know, my son is just a wonderful, caring, loving guy. Which we always hear when this sort of stuff happens, right? Exactly. The father of Briar Schmigelski, on the other hand, says my son is a troubled kid. He was troubled by the circumstances of the father's split up from Briar Schmigelski's mother

that he describes him as kind of being on a suicide mission. There's a lot of indication from people who are connected online to Briyer Schmigelski that he has a fascination with Nazi paraphernalia and with Nazi history. There's pictures of him online in camouflage and holding an airsoft gun. Kowalski told the Canadian press, you know, that sort of in addition to his son's troubled upbringing, you know, that his main influences became video games and YouTube. He was very introverted. They never got in trouble with the law. They never got into fights. But both of them have to have a lot of pain inside.

Both of them. Now, you were just in northern B.C. reporting on this story, and you spoke to some people who were actually organizing their own local safety patrols in some communities. And that really struck me. Why take this on themselves? Why are people doing this? Well, so I spoke to the chief of the Iskut First Nation, which is a band of about 330 people, which is probably an hour and a bit south of Dees Lake. And her name was Marie Kwok. She told me they felt a response. I mean, they felt a responsibility to look out for their people because people start to panic and there's a sense of uneasiness because they live right around where the truck was found and around where the body of Leonard Dick was found. And so they wanted to make sure that people are okay. It's been very uneasy. A lot of people are living

in fear because we don't know. There hasn't been very many answers about what's been happening. So it's the fear of the unknown. So what it was, was they asked some young guys basically to drive around the community from dusk till dawn each night while this was going on to make sure that they were safe. And is that also partly a response to the relative lack of police presence in this area? I mean, is there an RCMP detachment nearby? No, the RCMP detachment for Iskut is in Dees Lake, which, as I say, is about an hour and a bit away. is in Dees Lake, which, as I say, is about an hour and a bit away.

And so the chief, Marie Kwok, told me they have actually been asking for an RCMP detachment for about 20 years. It really brings it home, right? Just exactly how vulnerable we are here. Without having a detachment, an RCMP on site that we could just call right away if something happens and they'd be there like in minutes and not have to wait an hour. And the fact that we don't have cell phone service where we could call 911 or something. In your conversation with Marie Kwok, she also compared the attention that this story has been getting with the attention that was paid to the missing and murdered women along BC's Highway of Tears.

I feel like the missing missing murdered women are marginalized, right? They don't make big news sensations, but they're people and they have families who love them. So, you know, it's a glaring fact right there that, you know, it's not fair. And some people are not counted as much as others, right? What did you think when you heard that? She definitely, she wasn't trying to take away from what had happened here or suggest that people shouldn't be covering this, but I think what she was sort of saying, and it did strike me, is that, you know, after this is all over, we need to have a conversation

because, you know, this danger exists and has been well highlighted by, you know, over the years. A number of women have gone, indigenous women have gone missing or murdered along the Highway of Tears. there's a danger that sort of, you know, the same danger that is exposed by this in terms of the vulnerability that you can be in, on the side of a highway, you know, in the middle of wilderness with really no means of letting somebody know you're in trouble, no means of calling 911 immediately, has existed and people have been asking to do something about it for many years. When it comes to, you know, I was told in the community of Viscount, there's a number of, you know, single women who travel back and forth to work along that highway every day and the danger is there and it's real for them.

And it's sad that it takes something like this to throw attention back on that when people in these communities have been talking about some of these dangers for years and particularly just a bit south along the highway 16 that the highway of tears people have been asking for help if you don't have extended family members that can drive or even have a vehicle they'll still get on the highway. And unfortunately, they're still young women. I can't even imagine trying to get on the highway and hitchhike. That's just not possible. It's not safe. As you say, this story has been generating a lot of attention in Canada, obviously, but also overseas.

Armed and dangerous. That's the warning from police as the two suspects remain on the run. And I wonder, you know, looking at sort of just the news cycle this summer, things have been a little slower perhaps than other points in the year. Perhaps that accounts for some of the attention, but do you get a sense that there's more to it than that? You know, I think there is. It's kind of interesting because we live at a time when there is kind of a fascination and an obsession

with true crime stories, you know, Netflix. Mr. Avery's blood is found inside of Teresa Halbach's vehicle. True crime podcasts. Some of our own. The CBC's, yeah, the CBC's Uncover series. Police arrested 66-year-old Bruce MacArthur. You know, serial, this kind of thing. And we also live at a time when you can follow the footsteps of this entire story from your iPad, not just in terms of

the news stories, but also in terms of the people involved. You know, everybody has a Facebook account. So suddenly you can actually look at, you know, the people who are involved here. You can, You can, you know, drop in on a community via satellite or via street view and see the places that we're talking about. And, you know, I mean, you can look at Dees Lake and you can look at Gillum, Manitoba, and you can enter in your iPad, you know, how do I get there and see what, you know, I guess a lot of people will think might be the most likely route that these two have taken. And so you just have this kind of confidence. You can effectively start to investigate yourself almost. Yeah, which I think is what a lot of people do, right? Like, I mean, and which is actually in recent times, I believe, in terms of the Golden State Killer who was caught allegedly down in California. A lot of that, and there's a best-selling book, you know, that was written by an armchair detective, basically, associated with that.

Michelle McNamara's book, I'll Be Gone in the Dark. She met with investigators in Contra Costa County and Orange County to learn more. She earned their trust, even got insight that wasn't in the case files. She earned their trust, even got insight that wasn't in the case files. fascinated with what has happened here. And they have an ability to insert themselves into, you know, the head of a police officer. Jason, let's leave it there.

Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. After Jason and I spoke, the RCMP delivered an update on this investigation. They said that there had been two corroborated sightings of McLeod and Schmigelski in the Gillam area, and that these sightings happened before that burned-out car was found on Monday. That's of this week, July 22nd. That's all for this week. FrontBurner comes to you from CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show was produced by Matt Ama, Mark Apollonio, Chris Berube, Elaine Chao, and Ashley Mack. Special thanks to our resident Marvel Comics expert,

intern Jackson Weaver, who would like us to note that Blade is technically part of Marvel's Phase 5 and not Phase 4, announced earlier this week. Thanks, Jackson. Derek Vanderwyk does our sound design. Our music is by Joseph Chavison of Boombox Sound. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Locos, and I'm Matthew Braga. Chris is hosting on Monday, and Jamie will be back on Tuesday, rested and relaxed. We'll see you then. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011, and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog.

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