Front Burner - Free Britney?

Episode Date: November 13, 2020

This week, Britney Spears lost a legal battle to remove her father as her conservator — a court-ordered agreement that has put him and a lawyer in charge of her finances and daily life since 2008. Her conservatorship has spawned #FreeBritney, a sometimes-conspiratorial movement whose adherents believe Spears is essentially a prisoner in her own life. But it has also attracted the attention of the American Civil Liberties Union, who have offered Spears legal support and consider her guardianship a disability rights issue. Today, Constance Grady, a culture writer for Vox, joins us to talk about Spears' conservatorship, how she got here, and why some people feel that this story is about a lot more than one pop star.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. And I don't want to be so damn protected. There must be another way. I remember people talking about her dad taking over everything,

but I don't think I really understood what it meant until, I would say, the last two to three years, when the Free Britney movement kind of started getting really big, and I looked into it more. So to see this go on for as long as it's been going, of course, it's frustrating, because you know that she's not allowed to do anything herself. So these women you're hearing are Emily Mercer in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, and Sarah Hayward in Fredericton, New Brunswick. And they're both 27, and they're both Britney Spears superfans. They talked to our producer, Ashley Fraser, about why they're so concerned about the situation that

Spears has found herself in since 2008. It's called a conservatorship, basically a court-ordered agreement where Spears' father and a lawyer are in charge of her finances and her day-to-day life decisions. Many fans are convinced that she's basically a prisoner in her own life, and they've started a movement to save her. Free Britney. What do we want? Free Britney. When do we want it? Now.

We have to see your shirt, obviously. Dump him. Perfect. Members of the Free Britney movement have rallied fans to protest not just online, but outside court hearings. They're calling for the conservatorship to end. Oh, oh, the conservatorship has got to go. Spears has never said publicly how she feels about the conservatorship to end. Spears has never said publicly how she feels about the conservatorship, but many fans scour her Instagram account for clues and some think she's sending these coded cries for help.

And this stuff can get into pretty heavy conspiracy theory territory. Back in the summer, she had an Instagram post up and somebody said, you know, Brittany, if you need help, if you need us to help you, wear a yellow, like wear yellow in your next video. And in the next video, she was wearing yellow. And then people were like, oh, my gosh, you know, she's reaching out to us. She needs help. Theories and coded messages aside, there are real facts at play here and a court battle. Because what we do know is that Spears wants a change. On August 18th, she filed court papers calling on her father to step down as conservator. She wants a licensed professional conservator to stay on permanently instead. And according to her lawyer, Spears said she's afraid of her father. But this week, the Los Angeles Superior Court declined her request.

I honestly think that it's inhumane. But I mean, I don't know what the word is for it. It's just, it's so, so sad. And these fans aren't the only ones that are concerned. The American Civil Liberties Union has offered Spears legal supports to get out of her conservatorship. Zoe Brennan-Cron, a staff attorney with the ACLU's Disability Rights Project, says the conservatorship threatens Britney's civil rights. We don't know whether Britney Spears self-identifies as having a disability,

but we know that in putting her under conservatorship, the court is treating her as a person with disabilities and taking away virtually all of her civil rights and civil liberties as a result of that. Today, I'm speaking to Constance Grady, a culture writer at Vox, about Britney Spears' conservatorship, how she got here, and why some people feel that this story is about a lot more than one pop star. This is Frontburner. Hi Constance, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Thanks so much for having me.

So we heard at the top of this episode a little bit about what Britney Spears' conservatorship is. But I want to explain it a bit more clearly. What do we know about what Britney is and isn't allowed to do and the kinds of choices she's able to make about her own life? So a lot of this is pretty mysterious because a lot of it just isn't public knowledge. We do know from some reporting that Britney's conservators go over every purchase she makes down to like if she downloads a song off iTunes, they will know that and go over that with her. We know that people under conservatorships like Britney are not able to exercise certain rights that American adults traditionally have like voting. So it would be surprising if Britney

were legally able to vote at this point. We know that she doesn't have control of her business affairs. So, for instance, it's been reported that the hotel in Vegas where she had her residencies, it's a condition of those contracts that she remain under conservatorship while she's there. So in a sense, you're basically considered a child by the courts. Is that fair? Essentially, yes. Going under conservatorship means losing the privileges of being an adult and returning to being a child and having someone that you have to answer to and be who is responsible for you. And speaking of those people who are responsible, these conservators, in this case, it's Britney's father. They make money, right? Like this isn't something that

they do for free. Yes. So it is considered a full time job. So her conservators do draw a salary of a few hundred thousand dollars for what she makes. There have been some who have argued that, you know, considering how much trouble it is to be basically a manager for a major pop star, that's not that much money. Other people argue that, you know, they're making a percentage of all of the profits that come in from her very extensive licensing and all of her product lines. licensing and all of her product lines. So that means that they have an interest in pushing her to work, even if that's not what's best for her mental health or what she personally wants. So I want to get into why so many people feel so concerned about this, including the American Civil Liberties Union. But first, can we go back to how this all started in the first place? I mean, thinking back to the late 90s and the early 2000s, Britney Spears was easily one of the biggest pop

stars in the world. And I remember the string of incidents in the mid 2000s, where she had this really public breakdown, right? In the mid-media frenzy, the 26-year-old pop star was brought by ambulance to a Los Angeles hospital from her Beverly Hills home. Can you tell me more about the series of events that led to her being placed under this conservatorship in the first place? Yeah, so Britney Spears in 2007, there was starting to be a narrative that she was getting back to herself. She had just divorced from Kevin Federline, who I think most of her public considered to be very below her. And there

was sort of this narrative that like, oh, you know, now she's dropped the dead weight and we'll see the real Britney again. And instead, that ended up being the beginning of even more of a downward spiral. There were paparazzi following her everywhere, taking upskirt photos while she was going to clubs. She started yelling at them in a British accent sometimes. Are you going to continue to sit here and film me? Are you going to be on your way? Because I'm never going anywhere. She shaved her own head while paparazzi photographed it through the windows.

Did she say why? I mean, did she offer any information? They asked why she wanted to shave her head and she said, I don't want anyone touching me. I'm tired of everybody touching me. She hit a paparazzi's car with an umbrella. She went in and out of rehab. I think kind of infamously,

there was that performance at the VMAs in 2007. Where she was sort of sleepwalking through it. And I think afterwards, Perez Hilton lectured her about being disrespectful to her fans because of it. She also goes to a psychiatric facility, right? Twice. Yes, she is committed to psychiatric facilities twice. And those are also photographed and paparazzi follow her as she goes in. And those are also photographed and paparazzi follow her as she goes in. I just want to reflect on this for a minute.

Like, obviously, I lived through all of this. I'm like recalling all these memories now, you know, when she attacked the paparazzi with the umbrella, these upskirt shots that you just mentioned, that VMA performance where people were talking about her being overweight too like I know she sort of floated through the performance but also there's so much talk about her being overweight and looking back all these years later I just want to talk about how intensely sexist this all feels now um and that must have been adding to her stress right this young woman was relentlessly hounded by the paparazzi. And then she was sexualized in such an incredible way, right? Her body was critiqued ever since she was young, a teenager. And they started, you know, criticizing what I was doing. I, you know, me looking sexy, I didn't really take it as a criticism, you know, because I liked it. You know, I imagine it was hard for pop stars like

Justin Bieber growing up in the spotlight like this, but it feels like she got it incredibly bad. Would you agree? Oh, absolutely. And it's kind of astonishing to think that this was in 2007. So it was only about 13 years ago. But it's looking back on it, you can't even imagine the coverage that Britney got flying today. I found an article about her VMAs performance on ABC News, which, you know, a pretty staid, straightforward, mainstream American news source. And it quotes a publicist describing her as heavy and then sort of like as an it's okay she's still got it pulls out an anonymous internet commenter who went well i'd still hit it like can you imagine a newspaper saying that today or a news channel about any major pop star that's wild and it can't possibly have been fun

for her to live with or good for her mental health. Do you remember that virginity countdown clock too? Oh, God. Yes, there was that sort of fetishization of Britney's virginity and the obsession with whether she was a real virgin or not, especially when she was dating Justin Timberlake. And there was this sort of like, ooh, the two beautiful pop stars together. But of course, there wasn't ever any real question about Justin Timberlake's virginity, right? No one cared about that. They just wanted to know about Britney. over her. And that so-called temporary conservatorship has actually continued for more than a decade to today. And it seems that a big part of the controversy around this is because people only end up under conservatorship if the court identifies them as having a disability and that they're not competent to make their own decisions. But this is something I want to ask you about. Britney has done these hugely successful Vegas shows since. She's been a judge on The X Factor. So how can she still,

all these years later, be considered not competent to make her own life decisions? Yeah, this is a big question. I think especially her fans have pointed out that just two months after that emergency conservatorship began, she was guest starring on How I Met Your Mother. And they sort of have asked, well, if she's competent enough to be shooting a network sitcom, why isn't she competent enough to be in charge of her own life? But this is a question that comes up fairly often in conservatorships. There are a number of people who are living in conservatorships who hold down jobs and are considered to be competent in certain areas of their lives. But the courts still hold

that they need supervision or guardianship in other areas. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling

numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. So I know that we don't know a ton about how Brittany herself feels about the conservatorship, but she has certainly said that she wants her father permanently removed from it. And this week, which is one of the reasons we're talking about this this week, she lost a court battle to do that. And what does that say about how hard it is to change or get out of a guardianship agreement? This is one of the main issues on which

advocates I've spoken to for people under conservatorships have really been pushing for reform. If you go under conservatorship, someone is taking control of your life, which means this is a situation that is hugely ripe for abuse. And because of that, they should require a lot of court oversight. But it's very easy because these are bureaucratic court systems. It's very easy for someone to make the decision that, oh, this person is a current and present danger to themselves. We have to do something fast. Let's get them under this conservatorship. And then once it's in place, it can become very, very difficult to get out of it. I understand Brittany's lawyer said that she

was afraid of her father. And what do we know about why she might be afraid of him? So this is another one of the big questions that no one really knows the answers to. There are reports that her father, James Spears, hit one of her kids. And that was part of what precipitated him taking time off from working as her conservator in the last year. But we don't really know any more details than that. Okay. I want to talk to you about the American Civil Liberties Union. I find it really interesting that they have offered Britney Spears legal support to get out of her conservatorship,

and they've called it a threat to her civil rights and a disability rights issue. Our producer Ashley spoke to someone from the organization. disability rights issue. Our producer Ashley spoke to someone from the organization. There's really a double standard where non-disabled people are free to make choices that their parents might not agree with and to learn from trial and error as they proceed through young adulthood and adulthood. But people with disabilities are subject to this very different standard of oversight. What do they mean when they say that? So a lot of the advocates I've spoken to consider this Britney Spears case to be kind of a flagship case for the conservatorship issue. Britney's legal rights have been removed from her under the assumption that she has a disability.

Whether or not she identifies as having a disability legally, that is the justification for her conservatorship, right? So I think for a lot of advocates, it's helpful to have this case of someone that so many people already have like a deep emotional attachment to and say, can you believe that she has been made essentially a child in the eyes of the law? That seems wild. How can the government do that to anyone? And sort of build from there to make a larger argument about whether we should have conservatorships at all for anyone. So we talked about the hashtag FreeBritney movement at the top of this episode. It's this idea, based on this idea, that Brittany is kind of a prisoner in her very constrained life. And many of her fans read something kind of conspiratorial into her Instagram posts. They think that she's sending like coded cries for help. And we're not here to debate the veracity of those claims today. But I do want to talk about

her Instagram posts. Some of them are quite odd. There's like a lot of spinning in a living room or vacant eye stares. There's this one odd one where she's just kind of standing there in a bikini listing off things to bring to the beach. A towel, oil, sunscreen, a dog, and a hat. I'm going to go to my jacuzzi now. And she does not seem well, necessarily, in some of these posts. Hi guys, I'm in my gym right now. I haven't been in here for like six

months because I burnt my gym down, unfortunately. I had two candles and... Is there an argument that maybe she can't be in control of some parts of her life and that this conservatorship is a positive thing. Yeah, I think that's the argument that a lot of James Spears' legal team has made and that judges have essentially listened to is that we all saw Britney spiral out of control pretty publicly in 2007. And the conservatorship has gotten her to a place where, you know, she's financially stable and is able to be in contact with her kids and seems more or less okay. And then when these Instagram posts pop up, they sort of become things that you can read all kinds of questions into, whether they're signs

that, well, Britney is not okay, so she needs to get out of this conservatorship, or, oh, Britney is not okay, so that's why she needs the conservatorship more than ever. Yeah, I can't help but think it is kind of a chicken or egg argument too, right? Like, is she unwell because she is unwell and needs the conservatorship? Or is she unwell because she's been living in this sort of bondage for over 10 years? And this is something that would make anybody unwell, that that could be difficult for anybody to be under. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. It's a very difficult situation for anyone to live in. And it's impossible to say necessarily whether it's helping or hurting her.

Certainly, neither of us can say that. Probably no one can who's not, you know, Britney Spears' mental health team. One thing I did want to ask you about is that this hashtag FreeBritney, I know it was fueled by the Me Too movement. And can you tell me about that a little bit? it applied to all of these incredibly famous actresses talking about the way they'd been treated by their industry was this desire to think more about the agency of famous women and how seriously to take them. And Britney Spears is someone who there's always kind of been an open question in the way we talk about her, whether we consider her to be under her own control or not, right? So when Baby One More Time first drops in 1998, the sort of snooty rock critic argument about Britney was, oh, well, she's just the product of her producers, right?

None of this is really her. She's a manufactured pop star. her producers, right? None of this is really her. She's a manufactured pop star. And then sort of over time, there was this feminist reclaiming of Britney that was saying, oh, well, actually, Britney is in charge of her own destiny. You know, she did tons of artistic work on this song. She is the architect of herself. If pop studios had been able to make another Britney Spears, they would have and they really, really couldn't. Which is really not the way the story is supposed to go, especially for people who grew up idealizing Britney and aspiring to be like her one day.

And, you know, now they're grown up and are adults and living on their own, and she still has to answer to her dad. That's just not the way the story is supposed to go. I think that's part of what makes people feel so protective of her. Right. She kind of helped me come out. She helped me want to dance. She wanted to help me to be my own person. I hope that she is truly okay and that we are here to support her no matter what,

no matter what she wants to do. I can't help thinking about some other examples as well. And I would love to get your thoughts on this about other women like Brittany who have achieved a level of fame around the same time. And the details might be different, but they have also had their profits and their creativity and their autonomy in one way or another stripped from them. I'm thinking about Taylor Swift, right, who lost control of her back catalog. It's a lot to process because we do exist in this society where women in entertainment are discarded in an elephant graveyard by the time they're 35.

Kesha, who's really been under the thumb of this male producer who she's accused of assaulting her. The music producer denying the claims, which were ultimately dismissed in court and filing a defamation suit against the singer. Amy Winehouse also thought her father was profiting off of her. And whether it's ways to control that catalog or conservatorships, you know, somebody is finding a way to own these women. Yeah, and I think one of the things that's very interesting about that point is, you know, they're not unusual cases. What's unusual about Taylor's fight for her master's

isn't that a record company owns them, right? That's the default in the music industry. What's unusual about Taylor is that she is not accepting that and is pushing back against it. But the music industry is set up to create these stars, these young women, put them out for the public to consume, and then funnel life was so famously controlled by a big studio who was drugged on set. But here we are decades later. I'm not sure at the core of it, it feels so different. Yeah, this is one of the great contradictions and big sadnesses about the celebrity culture.

big sadnesses about the celebrity culture. We're just taking these people and sort of consuming them for our own pleasure. And, you know, they get tons of money and social power out of it. But on the other end, we've also seen a lot of lives get destroyed through this process. So it's very frothy and fun on some level, but it also turns out in really sad ways a lot of the time. Constance, thank you so much for this conversation. Thank you. All right, that's all for this week. Frontburner is brought to you by CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show is produced this week by Imogen Burchard, Allie Jane, Shannon Higgins, Katie Toth, and Ashley Fraser.

This week, our sound design was by Derek Vanderwyk, Mandy Sham, and Matt Cameron. Our music is by Joseph Shabison of Boombox Sound. The executive producer of Frontburner is Nick McCabe-Locos, and I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you on Monday. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.