Front Burner - From memes to TV ads, how political third parties get their message out

Episode Date: July 9, 2019

You may not have heard of political third parties like Engage Canada or Canada Proud, but you’ve likely already encountered their messaging through a traditional television ad, a Facebook meme, or maybe even a person in a banana costume. Today on Front Burner, we talk to iPolitics reporter Marieke Walsh about who’s behind these groups, what kind of influence they may have, and the new rules governing their spending in the leadup to the federal election.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. In the fall of 1998, an elderly woman known as the Cat Lady went missing. In the fall of 1998, an elderly woman known as the Cat Lady went missing. She had a very distinctive silhouette and very recognizable when you'd see her walking into town. A handkerchief on her hair, long overcoat, like somebody that lived on the street.

All police could find were her 30 cats shot dead. I always knew something had happened to her. To just vanish like that. Uncover the Cat Lady Case from CBC Podcasts is available now. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Engage Canada. Canada Proud, shaping Canada's future. You may not know these groups by name, but you might have come across their messaging. And if the Conservatives control everything... Cut, cut, cut. There goes health care. His carbon tax is making it too expensive to drive.

Depending on the group, they've got memes on Facebook, ads on the radio, and big-time TV buys, talking down the political leaders they oppose and championing those they want in power. We're talking about this today because as we head into election season, these are influential players, and they're trying to shape the way you think about politicians and election issues. So, who's behind these third parties? How do they interact with the traditional political establishment? And what impact will a set of new rules governing these groups have? I'm speaking to Marika Walsh of iPolitics, who's been tracking these third

parties and their reach. This is FrontBurner. Marika, welcome to FrontBurner. It's a pleasure to have you here. Hi, thanks for having me. So today I want to try and understand these third-party groups and how they work. And then I want to talk about how these new rules will affect them. But let's start first with the two groups that put out these dueling ads during the Raptors finals run. I think some people might remember these ads. Conservative Andrew Scheer. He's hiding something. Well, it's been four years. Let's talk about Justin.

And let's start with Shaping Canada's Future. Yeah, so Shaping Canada's Future is a bit of a mystery, to be honest. They're based in Alberta, and that's just from corporate records that we know that. Shaping Canada's Future is run by the same person who ran Shaping Alberta's Future in that provincial election. A group fueled by corporate money with direct ties to Alberta Premier Jason Kenney. Rachel Notley is working with her close ally Justin Trudeau. We do very clearly know from that ad that we saw during the Raptors game that they are a conservative group and they're campaigning against Justin Trudeau.

He was charming. But does he actually do any work? He broke the law. Right. And this ad, some people might remember from the 2015 election, these he's just not ready ad campaign. Well, he wants to send winter jackets to Syria. Like that will stop ISIS? Justin Trudeau, he's just not ready. This was like a retread of that.

It was basically the same actors sitting around a table assessing his credentials as PM, and this time they concluded, Justin Trudeau, he was never ready. Exactly. It was a rehash of the 2015 election ad from the Conservative Party, but they cut out that little glib part at the end that we saw in 2015. I'm not saying no forever, but not now. Nice hair, though. They took that out, but the rest of it was very similar, very similar storyline.

I thought he'd be different. We just can't trust him. The other big one from the Raptors' run was this group called Engage Canada. And our listeners might remember this ad during Game 5 of the Raptors final, which essentially painted Andrew Scheer as like a yes man to Ontario Premier Doug Ford. He'd follow Ontario Premier Doug Ford as he slashes health care and education. So it's like we're talking the other end of the political spectrum here. So tell me about Engage Canada. Who are they? So Engage Canada has been on the political scene for a lot

longer. They are a left-leaning group. They are funded by labor groups like Unifor and they have left-leaning progressive partisans on their board. Scheer will never stand up to Ford. Get the picture. Andrew Scheer. His weakness will cost you. Other than that, we don't know a lot about exactly the nitty gritty of who funds them and when and that kind of thing. But we we have seen them on the political scene for a lot longer and they have been active not just in this election, but in previous elections. OK. With the conservatives, you and your family just aren't in the picture. The Harper conservatives, they won't be there for you. And let's go back to the right of the political spectrum. Tell me about a group called Canada Proud. Who are they? So Canada Proud is a newcomer to the scene, but a very powerful newcomer.

They focus on online work, and they're started by someone named Jeff Blingle, who also started Ontario Proud, which was a very powerful force in the Ontario election in 2018. New from Ontario Proud, the all-original Kathleen Wynne collection. You'll hear such Ontario Liberal Party greatest hits as the gas plant scandal. And they're expected to be a powerful force in this election as well. Here are the top five of Trudeau's biggest lies and broken promises. And what kind of issues does this group get behind? So Canada Proud gets behind traditional right-leaning issues like anti-carbon tax campaigns, but they also have a very populist bent. For example, they recently

put out a video that, you know, questions why raw sewage is still being dumped in Canada's lakes and rivers. So they have a bit of a mixed bag and they have very interesting ways of pushing their message. For example, they had a protest in Ottawa a few weeks ago where McLean says they paid people 20 bucks an hour to dress up in banana costumes. We handed out thousands of pieces of literature, all branded with our signature hashtag, Trudeau is bananas. So they use lots of creative ways to push their message forward. Sometimes it's inflammatory. Sometimes it borders on possibly personal or unflattering attacks. So they do a mix. They do a mix of issues and then they do a mix of specifically targeting people like Justin

Trudeau. Okay. And speaking of Ontario Proud, we do know a little bit more about who funds them, right? Exactly. Because they operated in the last election, we know much more about how they previously were funded. It's important to note that Ontario Proud is a separate entity from Canada Proud, but it's the same person running it. Proud, but it's the same person running it. So during the Ontario election, they were funded by developers like Mattamy Homes, who donated $100,000 to Ontario Proud. I spoke with Canada Proud this past week, and they said that they are expecting more grassroots donors this time. And they also had grassroots donors, it's important to note, in the Ontario election through Ontario Proud. But I think you will see a mix from them of grassroots donors and corporate donors. Okay. Before we move to these new rules, let's do one more group.

This is another one on the left. Tell me about North 99. Yeah. So North 99 is another new group that also was operating during the Ontario election. Are you still a supporter of Donald Trump? Absolutely. I wouldn't waver. Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her. Stop! I will build a great, great wall. They say they have much smaller donors.

They say it's all grassroots, and their average donation is just $9. The biggest they say they ever had was $1,000, and they have already confirmed they will be operating in the pre-election and election period. So at some point, we will again see who is donating to them. We just don't know yet who it is. And just to clarify for people who are listening, what is the difference between a pre-election and election period? Yeah, so the pre-election period started on June 30. And that's this new regulation that was brought in to kind of try and level the playing field essentially is the goal of Electionsth. And that's this new regulation that was brought in to kind of try and level the playing

field essentially is the goal of Elections Canada. And so that's to limit how much can be spent in the pre-election period. And then that ends essentially when the writ drops on the election. So sometime in September, when Justin Trudeau goes to the governor general and says, we're calling an election, then that pre-election period ends and the election period starts. And there are different spending limits for third parties for each of those periods. Karina Gold is Canada's Minister of Democratic Institutions. She is the cabinet minister leading the remake of Canada's election laws. During the pre-writ period, previously there was no limit on either political party or

third party spending, but what we saw in the lead up to the 2015 election was a ramp up in spending leading up until the election. One of the important reasons is because during the election period there have always been spending limits on both political parties and third parties. Tell me a little bit more about these new rules that started June 30th, the pre-election period. So in the pre-election period, any third party can spend just over $1 million on all of their regulated activities.

And regulated activities can be anything from polling that informs their work to campaigns around partisans. So if there's any advertising that specifically opposes or promotes a candidate or a party, that would be subject to this pre-election spending limit. But it's very complex. And for example, issues-based advertising isn't going to be subject to the spending limit. So if you see somebody do a healthcare ad that doesn't focus specifically and doesn't name a party or doesn't name a candidate, but does very clearly have a specific focus around healthcare, that won't be subject to this pre-election spending limit, which means that they also don't need to disclose anything around that spending.

So we're talking about an ad here that could tout a national pharmacare plan, for example. And while it doesn't name the NDP, which has put forth a national pharmacare plan, it looks like the liberals are heading in that direction as well, it would certainly give the impression that it would be supportive of a party that would have a national pharma care plan. Exactly. Okay. And so how are we going to know all of this? What these groups are spending on specific political advertising? So every group who reaches a certain spending limit has to register with Elections Canada in the pre-election period. And then there are certain dates that they have to disclose where they are and who is donating to them. But again, I think it's going to be a bit of a trial and error period

because these are a whole new set of rules that we have not seen in the Canadian landscape before. I mean, this will be the first time that we'll actually be able to see what third parties are spending and have data on it in the lead up to an election previously because there were no reporting requirements. And you know I was talking to some groups who say it's very complicated it's still not entirely clear to them where some activities will fall. So essentially these new rules that target spending limits and also demand a certain level of transparency, they would definitely target ads like the ones that we saw during the Raptors game. Justin Trudeau, he's just not ready.

Andrew Scheer, his weakness will cost you. In the pre-rep period, but they did it before the pre-rep period, but in the pre-rep period. And they wouldn't target issue-specific ads like an ad about Pharmacare. But you mentioned that there's still some confusion about what they might target. So what's an example of that? So, for example, one group I was talking to said if they do a door-kn knocking campaign that is targeted around a leader or a party or a candidate, then that campaign falls under the rules for how much money can be spent. And that goes as part of their total spending limit. However, if it's a canvas that's an

unpaid canvas that is just for their own data gathering, then that's not subject to the spending limits. And that would not be then part of the disclosures that you see. So there are all of these different exemptions and carve outs to the rules. Another thing that for a lot of Facebook users that might be confusing is that the videos and the memes that are produced won't necessarily be subject to the ad rules and the spending rules unless a group puts money behind it. Unless they actually pay to have a political ad. So if they just post the video, they don't have to count that as part of their limit. But if they put money behind it, then they do.

It strikes me that this is difficult to enforce. It is certainly complex. Elections Canada has said that they have really beefed up their investigations and they've beefed up, you know, the people who will be regulating this and monitoring this. But it is a new era for everyone. It's new for the third parties that are acting in this field. It's new for the political parties. And it's new for Elections Canada. They say that they're confident they can monitor it, but certainly it is a huge wide landscape online. And I think that there will be lots of questions about what is happening and we're already seeing

that. Okay. And what would happen if one of these groups breached these rules? So the Commissioner of Elections Canada can impose an administrative fine or use what's called a compliance agreement to make sure the third party comes into line. And depending on how egregious the breach of the rules is, they could also decide to lay charges. So they can charge you for breaking the Elections Canada Act? That's correct. Now that we have a better sense of who these third parties are, at least some of them, and I also have a better sense of the new rules and how this will affect how they operate in the election, explain to me how these groups are different than political parties. groups are different than political parties. So these groups, while they might have a political leaning, do not necessarily have the same agenda as a political party. For example, North 99 says

that they are pushing these political parties like the Green Party, the NDP, and the Liberal Party to accept more and to promote more progressive policies. For example, the Green New Deal or a wealth tax or universal pharmacare. Doug Ford cut pharmacare for kids in Ontario. Now to get prescription medication for your kids, people will have to pay up front and go through a long bureaucratic process. Only at that point will they be able to get reimbursed. So not only are they trying to get the public on board with a more progressive agenda,

they're also trying to influence the political parties to do that. And I think you can see the same thing on the right side of the spectrum, where you see these third parties not just influencing public opinion, but trying to also influence the parties. And they are very separate, and they don't, I think it's important to note, they're not allowed to cooperate or collaborate with political parties, and they don't do that. So these new rules governing these third parties, why did they come in to be? Why was it so important that these limits and this need for

transparency be put on them? I think in part because we've seen them really become such big players on the stage. And as I mentioned earlier, the goal for Canada's elections is that there is some sort of level playing field. Now, it won't always be exactly level because people raise different amounts of money, but the goal is to try and keep it as level as possible. And these new spending limits do do that. However, it's really important to note that because of the timing of these spending limits, people can always front-end money.

Because we now have fixed election dates, groups now know when this is coming, when they need to ramp up their work. And that's, for example, why we saw these ads in the Raptors game, because they're not subject to any spending rules at that time. And they can spend really large money in, you know, two weeks before the pre-election period that they cannot then spend during the election period. And I know in preparation for this conversation,

I tried to find out how much one of those ad spots would cost. And nobody knows for sure. Game 5's Canadian audience was bigger than the Super Bowl. Ads cost tens of thousands of dollars to run. Big money, you think? Yeah. You mentioned before that these new rules do not come into play when a group posts a meme, for example. And it strikes me that we're operating in a slightly different world now than we were even in 2015, even in the last election, where it is not that difficult

for groups to make content that feels and looks or has a similar impact to advertising. Absolutely. And that's where the organic reach of each of these groups will really come into play. And what's interesting about these rules is that I actually think it benefits the new players more than the legacy players. How so? So a group like Engage Canada does not have a very big presence on Facebook. Facebook is a huge powerhouse in how we talk about things in

the news or quote unquote information that Canadians get. And so if you have a big presence naturally on Facebook, then you have a leg up as you go into this pre-election period and then the election period. So for example, Ontario Proud, which is separate from Canada Proud, but has similar content to Canada Proud. And the same guy who's in charge of both. And the same guy who's the founder of both, has more likes on Facebook than every political party except the Conservative Party.

So their content will naturally be seen by more people than any of these actual political parties. So they don't need to spend as much to get as much reach. Right. And they're not actually spending for political ads on Facebook. This is just their Facebook page. Exactly. One of the questions that some of these groups has is how are the rules going to regulate these videos or memes that they post that don't have any ad spending behind them? Because if they already have staff who already worked for them, then is that staff member going to count as an election spend? Okay. And we have no answer for that right now. The last I heard from them, they didn't have an answer.

Okay. Okay, okay. The idea here that some of these groups have been more successful at this than others, do you have a sense of which side of the political spectrum is doing well on social media here? Yeah, that's what's been so interesting about this is that right wing third party groups are really the newcomers to the scene. They're actually the late comers to the third party scene. Traditionally, third party groups and third party advertising has been dominated by left leaning groups. McLean's did a study or ran the numbers, I should say, on this. And they say that in the 2015 election campaign, third-party groups, $5 million was spent by progressives or left-leaning compared to just $100,000 by right-leaning. So that's a huge difference.

But now because of these rules, we're seeing the focus shift to newer groups who are experts on social media, who have mastered that. of getting viral content with not a lot of ad spending, and of really driving the message and shaping the narrative around an election campaign, even though they're not actually in the election campaign. They're not on the ballot, but they're a huge player. Okay, well, this is super fascinating to me, and I think there's a lot that we don't know right now, and I hope that as this rolls along, you'll come back, Marinka. Thanks so much.

There's definitely a lot to look for, and we will get more information, I think, is a really important point to hammer home. Thank you so much. Thank you. We reached out to all the third-party groups we mentioned in the interview. By the time we recorded this on Monday afternoon, we'd only heard back from North99. And like Marika said, they told us they do not accept corporate donations and that their mission is to advance progressive policies and ideas,

but to not support one specific party. That's all for today. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog. She names it Gay Girl in Damascus. Am I crazy? Maybe. As her profile grows, so does the danger. The object of the email was, please read this while sitting down. It's like

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