Front Burner - Front Burner Introduces: CBC Marketplace

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

As Canada’s top consumer watchdog, CBC Marketplace looks out for your health, your safety and your money. Hosts Asha Tomlinson and David Common bring you inside eight action-packed investigations, uncovering the truth about popular products and services — and pushing hard for accountability. CBC Marketplace has your back. More episodes are available at: https://link.chtbl.com/PQR2eJr0

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, Tamara Kandaker here. We have a special bonus episode for FrontBurner subscribers from the brand new podcast, CBC Marketplace. CBC Marketplace looks out for your health, your safety, and your money. The award-winning TV show has been Canada's top investigative consumer watchdog for over 50 years. And now hosts and investigative journalists Asha Tomlinson and David Common bring you inside

eight action-packed investigations and their new podcast. We have the first episode for you now. Have a listen. I think it's a complete scam. I mean, how you can grossly underestimate something like that is just beyond me. That's Sherry Watson back in January 2022. She's one of several people we heard from at CBC Marketplace who told us they feel ripped off by movers. They say these moving companies quote low, but then once they've got your stuff charge high. And then hold it ransom for payment. On the highway I get a call from the girl at the main office she says your bill now is $3,029. If it's not paid, we can't send the guys over with the truck.

Today, we'll take you inside our months-long undercover investigation into the world of movers who are accused of scamming customers. Witness a major police operation unfold. And as we do at Marketplace, push for answers from company bosses. Sir, you have many people who allege that you've ripped them off.

Do you have anything to say to those people? Anything at all? I'm Asha Tomlinson. And I'm David Common. You're listening to what inspired Marketplace to do this story in the first place. This isn't the first time we've looked into moving companies. No, not the first time. We previously did a story in March 2022 after we heard about customer complaints. And the allegation was that these moving companies would quote one price, but then once they had your stuff in their truck, that price would get

inflated. They'd hold it ransom for payment. And in light of the number of people who were moving during the pandemic, we thought maybe it's time to check back in on the industry to see if things had improved since we last covered it. Well, things hadn't improved. We found lots of complaints and new companies. But it was really a police bust in June 2022 that brought us back to this story. Lots of drama there, I know. We'll get to that in a bit. But can we begin with the

two people right at the center of a lot of these complaints? Yeah, two guys, Doan Chelek, Jamal Austurk, were at the center of our investigation. They are business partners and friends, moving company offices that they had based in Scarborough, Ontario, and they were conducting moves across the country and in the local area. Now, police say they were operating more than 12 moving companies, or at least moving company names together. According to Ontario's government, in the last couple of years, there were at least 24 complaints related to the group of companies that these two men allegedly operated.

That includes Safebound Moving, Roadway Moving, O Canada Movers, and Move Me Again Transportation. Lots of names to keep track of here. These two movers, though, allegedly had a sort of modus operandi, right? Yeah, complaints had been pretty steady for years, whether it was to police or the Better Business Bureau, Consumer Protection Ontario, certainly online reviews, negative reviews. But investigators said to us that when a moving name became too polluted, too problematic, the name would just get changed.

It was a reset to wipe the slate clean. That is so interesting. And at Marketplace, we heard from several people who felt like they were taken advantage of by these moving companies. One story that really stood out was Sherry Watson. She wanted to move her four bedroom house from Brampton to Sudbury. That's in Ontario. And David, what does she say happened to her? Well, in May 2021, she hired Safe Bound Moving, where Doan Chelek is listed as director. So this is like, you know, a four or five hour move in terms of distance. The company estimated that her stuff weighed 6,000 pounds based on what

they called an industry standard. They asked her to fill out their inventory spreadsheet if she wanted to guarantee her quote. So she ended up sending her own list. Okay, but then the plot twist during the move, something unexpected happens. Sherry says that suddenly there are weight problems. Yeah, she says she's told by the movers that their truck with all her stuff in it is overloaded. They gave me the option to go to the weigh scale. They said they overloaded the truck. And if they went there, they said they would make them take the stuff off of the truck and throw it out there. Yeah, throw out her stuff.

That's what she says she's being told. So what she does is she agrees to a new weight estimate or a flat rate that they're offering. And that means they say, we're not going to go to a scale anymore. They said, OK, sign here. And I thought he had done me a huge favor by knocking it down so they didn't have to throw out my things. So Sherry agrees to this new weight estimate or flat rate, but it's not quite the same, is it? No, it's certainly not the same as that original quote. By the end, the weight estimate has gone up by more than 500 percent.

And so does the cost. It's a lot more expensive. Our quote that we had been estimated increased more than $20,000. $20,000 more? I can't believe that. And neither could Sherry. She says the cost increases from that original estimate of about $2,000 with tax now to more than $22,000. And allegedly, Sherry says she's told by the movers, you're not getting your stuff back unless you pay up.

What did you think? I was just, I was in disbelief at first. I was convinced that it was a mistake. Somebody hit the wrong numbers in the keyboard. But they had your stuff at this point. They had our stuff at this point. All I got was invoices and a demand to pay or they were going to destroy my things.

Now, we should note that the moving company, Safe Bound Moving, says that Sherry agreed to the charges and she was told the cost would increase because she had more stuff than they expected. But Sherry sees it differently. Yeah, she believes they're holding her belongings for ransom. And so she refuses to pay the final bill. And this leaves her to live without her stuff in an RV for months. That is not all, though.

All of this trouble with moving, which is already a stressful enough thing in your life, is coming at a moment of great challenge in Sherry's life. I was diagnosed. Sorry. You can't even say it. But I do have a terminal cancer. My heart breaks for her. Our whole lives are in there. There's some very important

paperwork that we need to take care of things that we need to. Now, before we get back to Sherry's story, I want to talk about our investigation, because after hearing so many complaints like Sherry's about these moving companies, our Marketplace team actually hired one of them. Why don't we start there, David, with what the team set out to do? Well, you know, we hear about alleged scams all the time, but this was different because we had an opportunity to be inside of it from the beginning. We wanted to see if our experience would be very similar to what we'd heard in all of these complaints. And so we had one of our producers go undercover and hire Roadway Moving.

That was December 2021. Roadway is another company that lists Doan Chelek as director. So our producer identifies herself as Amanda, tells the movers she needed a one-bedroom apartment to be moved. She sends them an inventory list. The company quotes us about $1,500 before tax to do that move. But they also say we will pay based on how much it actually weighs. So if it weighs less, we'll pay less. Okay, so far so good. But that's not quite how things go down on moving day. Well, that moving day arrives January 2022. We're prepared. We've got trackers hidden inside our boxes to see actually what happens. The trackers go onto their truck and along with our undercover

producer, we've also got hidden cameras set up to capture that pickup. Hi there. Hi. Good, how are you? Good, thank you. When the movers arrive, Roadway's team of two movers is actually pretty courteous and careful on this site. Good packing?

That's you? Yeah. Good packing? Good packing? All guys, yeah. Yes. Great, but then once everything is loaded on the truck, out comes a new contract. Yeah, and they're claiming a new weight.

Can you write here 4,000? That's your signature. 4,000 means're claiming a new weight. Roadways movers want us to sign off on a 4,000-pound flat rate. That means they will not take it to a scale to see what it actually weighs. I think you don't understand the problem. Amanda, you confirm it's one bedroom. Office bills charged for one bedroom, minimum, 5,000 pounds. And to be clear here, what is this 4,000 pounds based on? No idea. So the movers leave with all of our stuff. Our undercover producer, Amanda, still doesn't know what the final cost is going to be.

But she doesn't have to wait long because just a couple of hours after the truck leaves with all her stuff, roadway calls up with a new price. They want more than $3,000. That's almost double their original quote. Unreal. This is the fun part, though, where the marketplace magic comes in, because we know something they don't. Yeah, we sure do. This pricing is based on what they're calling that 4,000 pound flat rate.

But we know that's not the true weight because we weighed it. We know exactly what it weighs as a result. It's really a third of their claim. We have 1,280 pounds. So not even close to 4,000 pounds by a lot. And we could have confronted them right there and then. But our undercover team wanted to see what would happen next. David, let's flash forward, shall we, to the day our stuff was delivered.

Yeah. A week after roadway movers picked up our stuff, the team and I followed that truck on delivery day. Remember, we've got trackers in the boxes on the truck. We know exactly where that truck is. And it was a wild day. As the sun is rising, we have no idea what they're doing. Okay, so we are watching the truck. It's sort of directly below us right now. Are they doing another pickup or delivery?

So hours later, the movers hit the road again, and we're following them at a distance so they can't see us in their mirrors. They pass the turnoff for where they're supposed to deliver our stuff to, and instead end up in this small town called Noelville, Ontario, about an hour away from where they're supposed to drop our stuff off in Sudbury, and they start unloading the truck into this garage. Not our stuff. They're actually moving another woman's belongings.

And a bit later, we find out that woman is Darlene Sherrington. Hey, guess what she says is happening to her. Listen, I bet everyone could guess. Yeah, she says she's also handed a contract with a flat rate of £4,000. Darlene says her bill more than doubled what she was expecting. And she also says she's told that if she doesn't pay that full amount, the moving company won't send the guys over with her stuff. You know, obviously this is starting to sound pretty familiar, but on top of that, Darlene's

husband calls in the police. Yeah. We didn't know that, right? We're sitting there watching from a distance and I'm actually peering out. We'd taken a bathroom break, to be honest with you. There were two of us in the car and we'd been

following him for a long time. Right. We needed to pee. So we take turns and now it's my turn back in the car and I'm looking out and this vehicle pulls up and I think, huh, that's a lot like a police car.

But it is, oh my goodness, it is a police car in unmarked vehicles. The movers, they don't seem to care at all. They just continue going on. The police are talking to them. They're talking to Darlene and yet it just seems to The movers, they don't seem to care at all. They just continue going on. The police are talking to them. They're talking to Darlene. And yet it just seems to the movers like another normal day. Darlene tells us after the fact that the police weren't able to help much

and says that actually she thinks that the cops believed the movers and their claim that she just had more stuff than they expected. What did the police say to you? They said, well, it pretty well looks about exactly what there should be in there. Do you think you've been taken advantage of? Can you afford to be taken advantage of? No. They shouldn't be doing this to older people or even young people. We shouldn't be doing this to older people or even young people.

Okay, let's pick up the story later that day when our undercover producer's stuff finally gets delivered. Right. So this is Amanda's stuff. It arrives hours later than they told us to expect it. They finally arrive at our storage unit in Sudbury, Ontario. Hello. How are you? Good. So it's just right, it's that one right, just down there. As they start unloading the truck, we've got cameras hidden, rolling, and I'm there, and I just start to question them about our move. I tell one of the movers that we were charged for £4,000. And he says to me, well, he hasn't worked for the company very long, but based on his previous experience, he doesn't think it's £4,000.

So even the mover is skeptical of the flat rate. Mm-hmm. Well, what we didn't know then was that police would also take an interest in these companies. And a major police takedown targeting these two moving company directors actually unfolds right in front of our team. David, let's talk about what happened on the day of the arrest. All right, I'm going to take you through the play-by-play. This police action comes after years of customer complaints. But when Doan Chalik and Jamal Osterk arrive at their Scarborough, Ontario business park

on this day in June 2022, they don't know undercover cops in more than a dozen vehicles are waiting. And the takedown was immediate. We had to stay back on public property, but saw that police action go down. And I watched as the police arrest those alleged moving scammers who cops say were running several national moving businesses. Then Doan Chelek and Jamal Ozturk are hauled out in handcuffs and taken to jail. And in the end, there were a slew of charges. Yeah, in the weeks that followed, the list of those charges stemming from the investigation would grow to more than 800 counts.

Fraud, theft, conspiracy, all related to more than a dozen moving companies allegedly operated by the men because of moves locally in Ontario and across the country. Two more individuals connected to the businesses would also be arrested. Chatham-Kent Police have also charged the two men. None of the allegations have been proven in court. But it is perhaps the largest ever prosecution of movers in this country accused of scamming their customers. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. you impart by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to,

50% of them do not know their own household income. That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. As you said, none of the allegations have been proven in court. But let's go over how the two men have responded to these charges.

We've tried several times to get a response. Yeah. The first time we reported on these companies before the arrest, we contacted both men for their responses. We got no response from Jamal Ozturk. responses. We got no response from Jamal Ozturk. But at that time, Doan Chelek did send a statement saying he values his customers and he promised a full review of operations. But you know, he didn't answer the specific questions that we'd asked in an email. So we confronted him in person in February 2022. Doan, I'm David from CBC Marketplace. Doan, we're trying to figure out why it is that you repeatedly quote low and then charge high many times more than the original estimate. Can you help me understand this?

I give my statement on email. No, we don't have answers to the question. There is no further comment. Why is it you estimate low and charge high? Why does that keep happening over and over? Everything is in confirmation emails. And then everything I give on statement to you guys, there is no any further comment for that.

But many of your customers think you're running a scam. I gave you guys the statement. So you guys better check it, read it. We have read it, but you haven't answered the questions we've asked. Why do you estimate low and charge high? So that confrontation happened before the arrests. But in the days that followed, because Marketplace was just so persistent, the team tried again. Yeah, we wanted to give these men another opportunity to respond.

There had been a lot that had happened. They'd been arrested. This was in June 2022, and investigators moved quickly to transfer the two men to the South Detention Center in Toronto. I've been inside there. You don't want to be there. It is not a comfortable place. A sprawling complex, not many windows, very high walls. Jamal Ozturk and Doan Chalik had been detained there for six days since their arrest. And when

they were released on bail, we were waiting outside. And remember Sherry Watson? So she had moved with one of these companies. She's now hired a lawyer. A guy named Rocco Scocco. And he is actually representing several customers. Of Doan and Chamal's. Including Sherry. And he's trying to serve them with civil lawsuits. But to do that he has to find them in person. He's been unable to do that.

So now he's in the jail parking lot as well. Waiting for them. And we are there. As Chamal Ozturk gets out, moves very quickly to a waiting car, jumps in. Sir, you have many people who allege that you've ripped them off.

Do you have anything to say to those people? Anything at all? Anything you would say to them at all? The car starts to speed away and you're thinking, when's Rocco Scocco, this lawyer, actually going to serve these papers? I still can't even believe it as I'm describing it.

The car is moving. Rocco Scocco frisbees in through the window. And what does he yell as the car speeds away? It's the Austin T. Thurman. Unreal. Completely unreal. What you just saw there was Mr. Ozturk being served with civil lawsuits. And a similar scene plays out minutes later when Doan Chalak is released.

The company's ripped them off. You're already served. Do you have anything to say to these people who say that you ripped them off, sir? Anything at all? Anything that you would say to these people? We reached out to both men in May 2023 for this episode. Through his criminal lawyer, Jamal Osterk declined the opportunity to comment because the matters are before the court. Doe and Chelek did not respond to our request.

On the civil lawsuits we've identified, they have either denied wrongdoing or not filed a response. And not much has changed for the Toronto police case. When we checked in June 2023, there were no pleas and no trial date. Things are still working their way through the system. Now, David, before we move on, pun intended here, why does it seem so hard to get police action on complaints like these? It's a good question. What we have heard often is that police forces don't see it as a criminal matter because there's a contract involved.

They see it as a civil matter and say, go hire a lawyer. Well, hiring a lawyer is really expensive. That means that getting a response is not accessible to everyone. Consumer rights involving moving company services are governed under the Consumer Protection Act of Ontario. In other jurisdictions, there would be similar acts, but in Ontario, it's the Ministry of Public and Business Service Delivery, which would investigate complaints. Police will investigate if they have evidence to suggest a crime has also been committed. What we did hear from the Toronto

police is that if a moving company is still there and you're asking for your stuff back and they won't return it, or if you think you're in danger, call police. Or if you think you're in danger, call police. We want to end this conversation by circling back to Sherry Watson. Where we left off with her, she was living in an RV with terminal cancer and none of her stuff. We wanted to know about her reaction to the arrests, so we met up with her a few days later. Yeah, she didn't know about those arrests. We showed her video. That's one of your move bosses.

He's in handcuffs. Oh my gosh, as terrible as that is, that makes me so happy. What does it mean to you? Oh my gosh, maybe a little bit of justice. I want to cry, actually. I hope that means maybe somebody will take what's happening seriously. It's definitely changed my life forever. I would definitely like to see them at a business have to pay a retribution to all the families that they've hurt. And it's always great when we can have some good news at the end of these investigations, right? That we're happy to report now Sherry is eventually reunited with her things.

You were there, David. What was that like? Yeah, it was pretty emotional. I mean, moving is such stressful business to begin with. Our lives go into those boxes. And Sherry has had a very rough couple of years. One good thing is that before those arrests, her lawyer was able to arrange for another moving company to go and pick up her stuff that was in storage. That was in January of 2022. And we were there with Sherry as that truck is being emptied out. And there's some damaged items. Sherry's not even sure everything's there.

But there's one very special box that Sherry was relieved to see. My daughter's jewelry. Good. Can I ask what it is, Sherry? It's my daughter's confirmation jewelry and her baptism jewelry. So it's very special to me. Before we say goodbye, what are some tips we've learned through this investigation and how we can protect ourselves when we hire movers? Got to start with reading the reviews, right? Going through a lot of them, good or bad.

Yeah. And when it's the reviews, look for history. Like, does it go back more than six or 12 months? That's a key thing. The Ontario Provincial Police says the Canadian Association of Movers is a great source of information for people who are moving from Canada or within Canada. See if that company is a member of the Canadian Association of Movers. According to that group, not all moving companies will even ask for a down payment. If they do, legitimate companies ask for less than 10% before a move. And one thing to really watch for is companies should do a walkthrough of your stuff. Either they come to your place or they have you go around with your phone on a camera before giving you a quote. If the company asks for a deposit to book the move before this, well, that's a big red flag, asking for money before they really know what you have. And you can call the Consumer Protection Office where you live

and ask if they've received any complaints about the company you're considering. All right, that's all for now. This investigation was produced by Jeremy MacDonald and Caitlin Taylor. Our sound design was by Julia Whitman and Sam McNulty. Special thanks to Laura Antonelli for technical work. The podcast was produced by Shiloh Fagan. The senior producer is Shannon Higgins. And our executive producer is Nalisha Villani.

I'm Asha Tomlinson. And I'm David Common. Thanks for listening to CBC Marketplace. That was the first episode from CBC Marketplace. You can head over to their podcast for more episodes. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.