Front Burner - Front Burner Introduces: The Secret Life of Canada - The Forgotten War

Episode Date: May 20, 2023

Not all Canadian history happens in Canada. Over 70 years ago, nearly 30,000 Canadians volunteered to fight in the Korean War. It was the third-deadliest overseas conflict in Canada’s military history — so why is it often referred to as “The Forgotten War”? In this episode from The Secret Life of Canada, friend of the pod and producer Eunice Kim joins in to explore what led to the conflict, why Canada got involved, the lasting impact of a war that technically never ended, and how some Korean Canadians are making sure we never forget. More episodes are available at: https://link.chtbl.com/34eva0d5

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, Alex Panetta here. We have a special bonus episode for FrontBurners podcast subscribers from the brand new season of the CBC podcast, The Secret Life of Canada. It's a history podcast about the terrible,

hilarious, dirty, and wonderful history of Canada. Hosts Leah and Phelan aren't historians. They're just two curious people with a passion for little-known stories and underrated figures. Together, they bring humor and a healthy skepticism to this country's founding narratives. Not all Canadian history happens in Canada. Over 70 years ago, nearly 30,000 Canadians volunteered to fight in the Korean War.

It was the third deadliest overseas conflict in our nation's military history. So why is it often referred to as the Forgotten War? In this episode, friend of the pod and producer Eunice Kim joins in to help explain what led to this conflict, why Canada got involved, and the lasting impact of a war that technically never ended. And just a heads up that this episode contains strong language and content. Now here's that episode, The Forgotten War. Have a listen. This is The Secret Life of Canada, a podcast about the country you know, and the stories you don't. And just a warning, this episode contains strong language and content, because history does sometimes. Today, they are old men. But 61 years ago, they were soldiers on their way to fight a war in Korea.

No, a lot of people don't remember now. I guess they've forgotten because it's a long time ago. For those who were there, though, it was never forgotten. My dad never got over it. Archie Hersey died last year at 81 years of age. He had a good life, had a family, worked for the highway patrol. But in Korea, he watched his brother die. I don't think there's a day that's gone by that I hadn't heard about Joe.

So before Archie died, he left instructions that his ashes be buried in Korea beside Joe. A Korean honour guard will receive Hersey's ashes. in Korea beside Joe. A Korean honor guard will receive Hersey's ashes. He'll be buried in Korea's United Nations Memorial Cemetery with the 378 other Canadians who gave their lives there so long ago.

Hey, Phelan. Hey, Leah. So I thought we'd try something a little different for this episode and add a third. Hello. Eunice Kim. It's me. So we should probably tell people who you are. Eunice is a producer at CBC, and we're lucky to be working together this season.

And, you know, we've had so many conversations about historical subject matters, but specifically we've been talking a lot about the Korean War. Yeah, so specifically about Canadians in the Korean War, because this July will mark 70 years since the signing of the armistice. Well, congratulations, Leah, on bringing Eunice into our history nerd den. Thank you very much. Yes, yes. And we've done an episode about Canadian soldiers in the Vietnam War, but nothing about the

Korean War. And I have to confess that my knowledge of the Korean War, I think, is limited to seeing reruns of MASH on daytime TV. I'm here because my country needs me. I didn't know it wasn't just some excuse to ship you 8,000 miles from home. Yeah, the Korean War was invented so your parents wouldn't come looking for you. Well, you're not alone. I mean, I too, maybe that's where it ends. Although I didn't know that that was about Korea.

I honestly always thought that was about Vietnam. But there's one thing that Eunice mentioned as we were talking that kind of blew my mind and made me think, okay, yeah, we need to do an episode about this war. So did you know that Canadian veterans who fought in this war, their dying wish, many of them, is to be buried in South Korea? No, I did not know that. Yeah, and I think this leads back to this misconception that I think a lot of people have, that Canadian history only happens in Canada. Yeah.

Right. I mean, right, right, right. I know it's wild. But I think in order for us to understand why and how that happened, we got to do a deep dive into the Korean War. So, Eunice, thank you for joining us today. Please take us through this history. You know, we both, I'm speaking for Valen now, but we both know very little about this war and especially how Canada got involved. I would love to. But first, I kind of wanted to start off by saying a little spiel. So I'm a Korean Canadian. And as a Korean Canadian, I find myself learning new things

constantly about my background and Korean history. And like any first generation immigrant, I'm always grappling with that hyphenated identity. Am I Korean enough? Am I Canadian enough? I do think this is a common feeling among diasporic communities. So it is nice to know that I'm not alone. Oh, yeah. No, no. You're in good company. I'm like, yeah, as a Haudenosaunee person, my people, you know, our territory existed on either side of the imaginary line now called the border.

And so, you know, and both my parents were born in the States. So there's I have some complicated feelings around identity as well. Yeah, so you get it. You get all of the complicated feelings. But yeah, so as I'm going through and like learning about all of this, there's something that I came to realize. And that's that we, as in, you know, the Korean diaspora, we're all affected by the Korean War. diaspora, we're all affected by the Korean War. Regardless of whether you were born and raised in Korea or have never even seen the country, it was a turning point. It was an experience that had a huge impact

on the country and its people and we're still feeling the effects of it today. feeling the effects of it today. The action of the United Nations in Korea is not war. It is police action intended to prevent war by discouraging aggression. That was Prime Minister Louis Saint Laurent in the summer of 1950, a month or so after the start of the Korean War. Back then, political leaders called it a police action or a conflict. I don't know about you, but police action or conflict sounds like vaguely suspicious to me. Oh, yeah, it was. And I will definitely get into that a little bit later, because for the longest time, it wasn't even referred to as a war. Have either of you ever heard of the name the Forgotten War? Yeah, I have, but I've always wondered where it came from.

Yeah, so there's a bunch of different reasons for that nickname. Some that surprised me when I was digging into this episode. But first, before we get to all of that, and before we go too deep into the war, we have to rewind a little bit and talk about the history of Korea. Okay. And I'm not going to lie, trying to condense over 4,000 years of history, like we're talking like 3,000 BC all the way to the 1900s, into a couple of minutes almost killed me. I understand. You both know that I am not known for brevity.

Okay, so here goes nothing. First, a little Geography 101. The Korean Peninsula is located in the eastern corner of the Asian continent, and it shares a border with Russia and China. Oh, wow. Those are some neighbors. Oh, yeah. And to their east is Japan. Oh, yeah. And to their east is Japan. Korea is a place where rugged mountains meet the vast sea, the land of the morning calm.

So before there was a North Korea and a South Korea, there was one Korea, and it was a unified Korean peninsula. And it was ruled by a series of kingdoms. And since the 13th century, it had to fight off constant attacks by its neighbors. It was invaded like 900 times during 2,000 years of recorded history by foreign powers such as Russia and China and even France. France got involved? Come on. What the hell was France doing over there? That's a lot. That's a story for another time. But this all came to a head during the Russo-Japanese War in 1904.

Right. And correct me if I'm wrong. I've read a little bit about this, but I think that was the war between the Russian Empire versus the Empire of Japan, right? And they were fighting over control of Manchuria and Korea. Yeah, exactly. That was the Russo-Japanese War. So Japan had just beaten China in the first Sino-Japanese War 10 years earlier, and it was still mad at Russia for helping the Qing dynasty during that conflict. And just to set the stage, this was a period of rapid industrialization for imperial Japan. It had huge ambitions to expand its empire in the east, and it wasn't about to let some Russian czar get in the way of that. So Japan declares war and manages to push Russia out. And then it makes Korea a protectorate in 1905 and formally annexes it in 1910. Okay, right. And annexing means to incorporate a country or other territory

within the domain of another state. So basically, it meant Korea would lose all sovereignty and essentially turn into a colony of the Japanese Empire. Yes. And this would mark the beginning of one of the darkest periods in Korean history. During Japanese colonial rule, Korean people were forbidden to teach, write, or speak in their mother tongue. They were forced to adopt Japanese names and culture. They couldn't wear traditional clothing or sing traditional songs. Farmers were ran off their land. Korean schools and newspapers were shut down to keep people illiterate. A lot of this sounds familiar to me. It sounds a lot like the colonization that took place in Canada.

Yeah. And on top of all of that, millions were forced to work in Japanese mines and factories or they were drafted to serve in the Japanese army. Women and girls were later forced into sexual slavery from 1932 until the end of the Second World War. It's terrible, terrible. And I believe that they were known as comfort women, is that right? Yeah, so comfort women was actually a euphemism coined by the Japanese. Hundreds of thousands of women and girls from occupied countries were sent to

military brothels for Japanese soldiers. They were often lured by false promises of high-paying jobs and educational opportunities. And it would take decades for these crimes to come to light. This has actually been a huge source of contention between South Korea and Japan ever since. You know, you see it in headlines to this day, right? Like survivors of forced labor and sexual slavery are still fighting for reparations. I mean, that makes sense. And this is a sweeping generalization I'm about to make based only on all of the Korean people I know and all of the Korean entertainment that I've watched. But I just get the sense that you don't seem like the type of people

to let injustice go unchecked. There's like a revenge, a vengeance theme that comes out of all of these things. Oh, yeah. Yeah, revenge, vengeance, redemption. Oh, yeah. We love our revenge. That is definitely a recurring theme.

Entertainment, historically, all of it. So on the topic of revenge, actually, throughout this colonial period, there was a huge independence movement brewing across the country and overseas. So some Korean nationalists and activists actually formed their own governments in exile. They mobilized and trained resistance fighters to carry out armed struggles against the Japanese because they had to be ready for the day they would get their nation back. In the name of our country, I ask the people of Canada at this hour to join with me in expressing our gratitude as a nation for the deliverance from the evil forces of Nazi Germany.

In 1945, three months after Germany surrendered, Japan followed suit. And the day that Koreans had been longing for for 35 years finally came. Or so they thought. Oh, no. So the allied powers agreed. Yeah, Korea should be free and independent. But they weren't quite convinced it was ready for that kind of responsibility. At least not yet.

That kind of sounds like when you have a terrible boss and they finally get fired, but they just end up being replaced by two new bosses that love micromanaging and they don't trust you to do your job. And by the way, the bosses are in your house. Yep. And those new bosses, they acted fast. So days before Japan officially surrendered, Soviet forces stationed in the northern part of Korea made their way south while U.S. troops pushed their way north. And the U.S. was freaking out over the thought of Soviets taking over the country.

So they assigned two officers, Dean Rusk and Charles Tick Bonesteel, with a task. Divide the peninsula into two. OK, Dean Rusk and Charles Tick Bonesteel. That's right. I have many images in my mind about what these men look like and who they are and what they get up to on the weekends. But, okay, but how did these guys go about dividing a country? Is it like an I Love Lucy episode where you draw a chalk line down the center of the house and like ricky's on one side and lucy's on the other or is it like that bugs bunny gif where he saws off florida and it floats into the ocean

like i just have to say and your references for this are in the time period of the 50s so like well done like this would be the time that they were doing that defining yeah yeah i'm already worried about what's coming next here because I don't know about you, but I just feel you should never give a man by the name of Tick Bonesteel the power to divide a nation. I'm assuming old Tick and Dean had many meetings to figure out how to do this. I mean, you would think so, but it was a lot less dramatic than that. It actually involved a pencil and a magazine. So they did a crossword. Maybe a Sudoku. Who knows? But I just had to. I had to

pull this up. Leah, could you please read this passage from Dean's 1991 memoir as I saw it? Okay, yes. I will get into my American Man character. Give me a moment. Yes, I love this guy. I love this guy. Neither Tick nor I was a Korea expert, but it seemed to us that Seoul, the capital, should be in the American sector. Using a national geographic map, we looked just north of Seoul for a convenient dividing line but could not find a natural geographical line. Instead, we saw the 38th parallel, and we decided to recommend that. Our commanders accepted it without too much haggling, and surprisingly, so did the Soviets. So that invisible line that Tick and Dean drew up on the spot would slice the country in half.

It would cut through villages, communities, railroad lines. But it was decided the Soviet Union would occupy the North and the U.S. would occupy the South. So this is probably a dumb question, but did any actual Korean people get a say in any of this? Nope. Not a single Korean person was in the room when this decision was made. Bonkers. Terrible. I mean, unfortunately, this idea of like just taking a line and dividing country has happened so many times in world history. I can't even imagine to go through 35 years of being colonized only to be liberated and then have your fate wind up in another pair of foreign hands, you know, or I guess in this case, too. It's terrible. And eventually, the Soviets and Americans realized that they just can't find a way to work together.

What a surprise. So in 1948, the United Nations stepped in, and they held a general election. So the South would form its own government in the capital, Seoul, led by Syngman Rhee, and it would be backed by the U.S. and known as the Republic of Korea. The Soviet Union refused to participate in this election because it was afraid to lose influence in the North. So they responded by establishing their own government in Pyongyang, the capital of the North.

And they appointed Kim Il-sung as the leader of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. So how did Koreans react to their country being split like this? Not well, to say the least. There were protests and rebellions. Many people were against the thought of having these two separate governments. And things got really ugly. So this was before the war, but were North Korea and South Korea getting along at this point? Not really.

You know, they were having a bunch of clashes at the border. There was clearly tension, right? Like bubbling at the surface. But the U.S. didn't really think much of it. It was like, eh, this seems like a personal issue. I'm sure they'll hash it out on their own. It had no idea what was coming. It is 4 a.m., June the 25th, 1950.

People everywhere were looking forward to a pleasant summer's day. Then the news flashed around the world. Artillery shattered the silence of what was known ironically as the land of the morning calm. An estimated 90,000 North Koreans charged across the parallel, supported by Soviet T-34 tanks, aircraft, and big guns. Within just three days, North Korea captures Seoul, South Korea's capital. The U.S. went into full panic mode. President Harry S. Truman quickly got approval from the United Nations to respond.

They assembled an international military force called the United Nations Command, and it would be led by the U.S. to, quote, furnish such assistance to the Republic of Korea as may be necessary to repel the armed attack and to restore international peace and security in the area. And this would be a police action, not a war, because Truman never actually asked Congress for permission to declare war. Okay, so we're back to the police action. Like, it's a diet war. It's war light. Yeah, it's all the war without the calories. Right. Exactly. So one important thing we have to remember here is that there was another war happening at the same time, the Cold War. For those of you who listened to the Fruit Machine episode, we talked about the Cold War. It was non-military, ideological, really considered to be a fight between the U.S. and the Soviets and all these other countries that either were forced to take a side or took a side. Right. And this was 1950. You know, there was some serious paranoia going on at the time about the potential rise of communism. And this was only a few years after World War II. So, you know, everybody was pretty nervous about the Soviet Union and China turning Korea into a communist country.

Oh, yeah, yeah. There was a deep sense of fear sweeping America, and you can hear it in President Truman's speeches. He's definitely not subtle about it. Our freedom is in danger. Sometimes we may forget just what freedom means to us. It is as close to us, as important to us, as the air we breathe. Freedom is in our homes, in our schools, in our churches. It is in our work and our government. These are the things that will be taken from us if communism should win. This would actually be the first time that the United States and the Soviet Union would fight a proxy war. And a proxy war is when two countries want to fight each other, but not actually directly. So they use other countries to fight for them. So it's like kind of like on the res when like you want to beat someone up, but you don't want to do it.

So you get your cousin to go beat up their cousin. It's so effective. Like that is the way to fight, actually. Just not the face, not the face, don't hit the face. You can never have too many cousins. Okay, so just to recap. North Korea invades South Korea with the support of the Soviet Union. The U.S. freaks out.

So the U.N. gives the go-ahead to send in the troops. So where did they all come from? Yeah, so the United Nations command was made up of armed forces from 16 U.N. nations. So that included Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia, and of course Canada. But Canada didn't send in their troops right away. Instead, it started by sending three destroyers, which are like big warships, and those arrived on July 30th. But a week later, Prime Minister Louis Saint Laurent made an announcement. But we feel the present situation calls for something more immediate. The government has therefore authorized the recruitment of an additional army brigade, which is beginning...

They put out a call across the country for volunteer soldiers. You have to listen to this great clip I found in the archives. It's CBC reporter Bill Beattie, and he asks new recruits why they're signing up for war. Number 6 personnel depot had interviewed more than 700 applicants for the special force. There were 300 crowding the depot building this afternoon. The strange part about it is that most of them have civilian jobs, but still they want to join up. Why? By tape recorder, I bring you these answers. Why do you want to get in this thing, sir? Well, I was in the service before and

well I didn't get overseas but I tried hard and this time I had to get overseas I think the same kind of jokes over there that was over there before I do right back at him and you'd like to see Korea naturally sir what about you well sir I'm joining the army to... Well, if you have any reason, just how old are you? I'm 19 years old, and I'm joining for the adventure of that, and just trying to help the communism and do as much as I can. You don't think the Russians would be very good people over here? No. And you?

I was overseas last war for five years. I think this is a continuation of the last war just carried on. And I don't think the war is over. And I just might as well get back in it again, finish it off this time. I hope for good. Feels like you're just going back to the same job after a bit of a vacation. That's all it is. But it wasn't a vacation. And this wasn't a job. This was volunteer work. And remember, this is a few years into the Cold War, right? So anti-communist sentiment was on the rise, and Canada didn't want to see a repeat of World War II.

Many were fully convinced that the Korean War could actually lead to World War III. Right, and so many in this generation had lived through so much war. Yeah, exactly. So while Canadian troops were gearing up to head to Korea, the war was well underway. But the UN forces on the ground seemed to have things under control. By late September, so a few months into it,

they had taken back Seoul, the capital of South Korea, and they were successfully pushing north. They even managed to capture North Korea's capital of Pyongyang. But this really pissed off China. Because they warned the U.S. not to cross the 38th parallel. Or simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

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just search for Money for Couples. In October 1950, Chinese communist forces in the hundreds of thousands pushed South Korean and UN forces back across the 30th parallel. Okay, now the Chinese have entered the chat. Hello. Okay, so where are the Canadians on all of this? Yeah, so the first group of Canadian troops arrived in December in Busan, which is a port town at the southern tip of the Korean Peninsula. And they've got a real fancy name. The 2nd Battalion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. The Patricias, or PATS for short. That really rolls off the tongue.

Oh yeah, can you imagine their business cards? So they had been training for a few months, but nothing could have prepared them for how physically demanding it would be on the actual battlefield. The Patricias set out through gorilla-infested valleys and treacherous mountain passes. Dead civilians lay among the ruins of bombed-out villages. Those who survived, sick and without shelter, watched the Canadians as they passed. The monotony of the hills. It was difficult for them to know the exact location of their positions because one hill looked the same as the others. The Canadians simply identified them as Hill 355 or Hill 162 according to their height on the military maps.

on the military maps. The Canadians made it through the brutal winter, and after a series of slow but steady battles, their most critical one yet happened in April 1951, when Chinese forces launched a massive attack to recapture the capital of Seoul. The Canadians were ordered to take positions at Hill 677, overlooking a tiny village called Kapyong, which is along a key route to Seoul.

The Australians and British were close by. At nightfall, the Chinese soldiers came in waves with machine guns and grenades. The UN troops ended up abandoning their posts, everyone except the Canadians. There were only 700 of them going against 5,000 Chinese troops, and at one point they ran out of food, medical supplies and ammunition, and had to be supplied by air drop. But they kept holding their ground. And after two nights of intense fighting, the Chinese finally gave up. This would come to be known as the Battle of Kapyong, and it's still remembered today as one of Canada's greatest military achievements. I reached out to Andrew Birch, a historian at the Canadian War Museum, to understand what made this battle so important. The fact that they were able to hold on there

meant that they bought time for the defenders elsewhere and were able to outlast this Chinese offensive. And it was only after that time that, and through a number of other combats, that led to this discussion about what was the end state of this war. And this was an allied war. No one was writing a blank check to carry the war forward. And essentially, everyone had other priorities. Canada had other priorities. The United States had other priorities, largely looking at Western Europe and the defense of Western Europe. And so the prospect of an armistice became more attractive. Okay, right. So shortly after this battle, then they got the ball rolling on ending the war. Kinda. I mean, we all know how long these things can take, right? So peace talks started in 1951, but the parties couldn't agree on a bunch of issues,

like what to do with prisoners of war, for instance. So negotiations kept dragging on, and there would be two more years of fighting and suffering. Until suddenly, in 1953, Joseph Stalin, the leader of the Soviet Union, died. Just when it seemed like the war would go on forever, they finally made a decision. The agreement was signed for the United Nations Command at 10,000 hours on July 27, 1953, Korean time, and becomes effective at 2,200 hours, 200 hours, July 27th, 1953, Korean time. Let us thank God and fervently pray that this armistice heralds a lasting peace.

Let us remember those who suffered and died that this limited war might be successful in preventing World War III. The U.S., North Korea, and China signed an armistice agreement to stop the fighting. So that clip that you just heard was of Henry Cabot Lodge Jr., who was the U.N. ambassador at the time. And I find it kind of ironic how he talked about praying for a lasting peace, because an armistice is not a peace treaty. This was just a ceasefire.

So did they sign a peace treaty afterwards? No. And on top of that, South Korea didn't even sign the armistice. President Syngman Rhee refused to recognize a divided Korea. And what this armistice also did was it established a demilitarized zone that would run two kilometers along each side of the border. It's now known as the DMZ. And, you know, we hear that term DMZ in the news so much nowadays, you know, especially when you're hearing stories on North Korea. It's like history is present. Like, you know, it's right here. Yeah. And that 240 kilometer long stretch of land has kept the Korean Peninsula divided ever since.

You know, some say it's like a scar across the country, a physical reminder of the war and everything that Koreans have gone through. But I think of it more like an open wound. And I imagine the aftermath must have been pretty devastating. Absolutely. I mean, five million people died and over half were civilians. You know, more than 10% of the population were either dead, missing, or wounded. Hundreds of thousands of children were orphaned. And millions of families were separated and would never see each other again.

So the war ends, and then what happens? Both Koreas were destroyed beyond recognition. Like, entire cities were razed to the ground. North Korea and South Korea were faced with this daunting task of having to rebuild their countries from the ground up, these two separate countries now. And this is a fact that's going to blow your mind. So during the Korean War, the U.S. dropped more bombs in North Korea alone than it dropped over the entire Pacific theater during World War II. Oh my God. Yeah, that's like, I don't know.

There's just like so much war, so much war in this time period. Yeah. So the North would go on to establish an isolated totalitarian state run by the Kim dynasty. The South would go down a path of authoritarianism. And after military coups and revolts and presidential assassinations, it would finally transition to a democracy in the 80s. The Vietnam War was another proxy war during the Cold War that happened right after Korea and such a long and brutal war. I think we all know the details of that. And so clearly no one really learned from this. Yeah. And like any war, the civilians were

the ones that bore the brunt of it, right? Like think about all they had to endure even leading up to the war. Koreans were at the mercy of outside forces for nearly half a century at that point. There's an old Korean proverb that I want to share with you that I think sums this all up nicely. Korean proverb that I want to share with you that I think sums this all up nicely. 고래 싸움에 새우 등 터진다. And it roughly translates to, when whales fight, it's the shrimp's back that gets broken. Korea has always been caught in the middle of these big superpowers wrestling for control. in the middle of these big superpowers wrestling for control. Yeah, and as we've learned, Korea has a long legacy of imperialism and historical trauma that's reverberated through generations.

But I should emphasize that not everything is in the past, right? Like since the war, the U.S. has maintained a big military presence in the South, and they still have nearly 30,000 troops stationed there today. Yeah, I do know that there are a ton of American military in Korea, but I'm wondering about Canada. Did they pack everything up and go home, or did they stay? Yeah, so some stayed as part of a peacekeeping force. But in the end, nearly 27,000 Canadians volunteered to fight in a faraway land that honestly most of them couldn't even find on a map. But when the veterans returned home, it was as if the public had

developed a collective amnesia. Here's Andrew again. And as the armistice took place and people's attention started to drift, Korea kind of fell out of the headlines a little bit. And that's really the phase at which we start to hear this phrase, the forgotten war. Korea is often characterized as the forgotten war because it falls in between that period of the, in the United States, between the Second World War, the Titanic effort, and the Vietnam War, which had this really defining aspect. For Canadians, the shadow of the First World War and the Second World War by far loomed over the legacy and heritage of people who served in Korea. And so that moniker of the Forgotten War became more widespread in the post-Korean War period among veterans of the Korean War. They encountered what I think veterans of the Second World War encountered when they would go and walk into their local legion. The old hands were First World War veterans who wouldn't necessarily recognize the service of the Second World War veterans initially.

And so people would come in and say, oh, I just came back from Korea, and they'd say, oh, so what? I served for six years, I lost an X number of friends, comparatively fewer casualties, comparatively fewer people. So there's this kind of a bit of not just forgotten by the public as a whole, but perhaps initially the service wasn't necessarily appreciated even by fellow veterans. I can't imagine how difficult that would be to not be recognized by others who had served. But what about the government? Surely they must have handed out medals or given speeches, some sort of recognition.

Yeah. So remember the clip at the beginning we heard with Prime Minister Saint Laurent? Mm-hmm. He said what the United Nations Command was doing wasn't war, but a police action. So as far as the Canadian government was concerned, their troops didn't fight in a war at all. Right. Brutal. But veterans, they kind of took it into their own hands.

They ended up creating their own association in 1974 so they could get together and reflect on their service. If the public and the government wanted to forget, fine. But they'd make sure to always remember the 516 comrades they lost in Korea. What's often been the case is that a lot of the commemorative efforts for Korea has been directed by Korea veterans in communities where they lived, where they could gather together and pool resources, raise funds, and add local cenotaphs, make own dedicated monuments.

In 1997, they paid to build their own memorial at a cemetery in Brampton, Ontario, and they called it the Korea Veterans National Wall of Remembrance. For decades, they lobbied for greater representation, better commemoration, and honestly, just more recognition from their own government. Then finally, in 2003... More than 1,100 veterans and their families gathered for a moment they have waited some five decades for, the Monument to the Canadian Fallen, a bronze and granite replica of the statue that stands in South Korea.

The original statue was actually put up in 2001 at the United Nations Memorial Cemetery in Busan. That's where 2,300 servicemen are buried, including 378 Canadians. And it was co-designed by a Canadian vet and a Korean sculptor. Well, so that's nice, but our government took a ridiculously long time to honor our own veterans. But what about the Korean government? South Korea has actually done quite a lot to commemorate UN soldiers. It regularly hosts these things called revisit programs. And that's when veterans can return to Korea, some for the very first time since the war.

And they get to witness how their service helped it become the country it is today. And it also holds remembrance ceremonies. And it even has a summer youth camp where grandchildren of veterans are invited to visit Korea. That's really cute. It's really cute. When I first started looking into this, I was really surprised to find out how little the Canadian government acknowledged its veterans when they came home. It took them years to even receive benefits. And I didn't know it was the veterans themselves that fought so hard to be seen.

But Andrew says this is changing. So a lot of the recognition has been driven by veterans. It's now starting to be driven a little bit more by veterans, their relatives, in some cases by the Korean government, in some cases by members of the Korean diaspora who have been affected by not only the war, but also by becoming Canadians later on in life as kind of immigration patterns changed. So most of the Koreans who immigrated immediately after the war were wives of American soldiers known as war brides, or orphans adopted by white families and some students and businessmen. But they mostly went to the U.S. And so how many came to Canada? Not that many, actually.

So by 1965, there were only 70 Koreans living here. Oh. Yeah. So there wouldn't be a big influx of immigrants until the 70s. And one reason for that was because Canada had a restrictive immigration act. So the next big wave was in the 90s and early 2000s, which is actually when my family came over. Yay, Eunice's family. You're welcome. Without that choice, we wouldn't be listening to this episode right now.

Yes, we wouldn't be here. We wouldn't be here. And so now we have this vibrant Korean community all across the country. Right. And as of recording this, the two largest populations of Korean Canadians live in Toronto and Vancouver. Yeah, but like Leah said, you'll find us all over Canada. My name is Sun Hwa Chung. A lot of people call me Sun. Sun is from Calgary. She immigrated with her husband and daughter in 2002, so around the same time that I came over. She's a lawyer by trade, but she's also part of a local Korean War commemorative committee. And they'll host things like movie nights and banquet lunches for veterans and also organize special ceremonies for anniversaries. We try to deeply connect with them and also pay our respect

and appreciate for what they have done. Without their sacrifice or dedication, we would not be here today. So Korea is a very well-known, economically well-known country. However, these things can be possible because they sacrificed and dedicated their lives because of their efforts at the Korean War. Yeah, I mean, and the act of remembering has to be active.

It's something you have to keep doing and going back to again and again. Yeah, and building memorials and monuments are a big part of that. So Sun's committee is working to install a monument in Airdrie, Alberta for the 70th anniversary of the armistice. And they're also celebrating 60 years of diplomatic relations between Canada and South Korea this year. Interesting. Is there a reason why they picked Airdrie and not Calgary? Yeah, that was actually the first question I asked her. We thought that one of the best locations can be nearby the Korean War Center, located at the center of the air tree.

And also the local Korean committee and the Korean War veterans and CW Air Tree have such a great personal near-dear connections for a long time. And also, location-wise, this is the gateway to the Rockies. That attracts a lot of tourists around the world, including Korean tourists. So, we want to make sure that the monument can be exposed to many people

so they remember the Canadian contributions to the Korean War. That way, also, as So they remember the Canadian contributions to Korean War. So that way also, as Canadian immigrants, we can remember what they have done for us. So this will be the fifth monument commemorating the Battle of Kapyong. And the other ones are actually in Winnipeg, Langley, Brampton, and Niagara Falls. So I pulled this up. I wanted you two to see this photo.

Okay, so this is a photo from last year's installation in Niagara Falls. Oh, okay. Is that a rock? Yes. Yes, it's literally a massive rock, but not just any rock, okay? So it's actually mined from regions in South Korea where Canadians fought during the war, like Kapkan County, and it's donated by the South Korean government. So you should know this. Carving, another fun fact for you,

carving giant pieces of stone for signs and monuments, it's a very Korean thing, very Korean. I love this. I wish we had more signs in this country that were made out of stone. And also the revenge. I like the revenge. I like these two aspects of Korean culture. I'd like more of that in Canada.

That's the thing. You do us wrong and then we'll carve a giant piece of rock reminding you of all the things that you did wrong to us. And that's how it goes. Amazing. So Canada is getting, like based on this, Canada is getting a bit better at honoring Korean War veterans, thanks in part to the South Korean government and Korean Canadians. I'm just wondering how many veterans are still with us? So in 2021, Veterans Canada estimated a Korean War veteran population of 5,200 with an average age of 89. Okay.

Yeah, so we're sadly losing more each year. And like you mentioned off the top, some veterans have requested to be buried in Korea, yeah? Names of a Canadian veteran were interred at the UN Memorial Cemetery. His name was John Robert Cormier, and he fought in the war in 1952 when he was just 19 years old. And before he died in 2021, he told his family that he wanted to be buried in South Korea. Yeah, and he was the third Canadian veteran to request this. The first was Archie Hershey in 2012, and then Albert Hugh McBride in 2019. So, you know, I just, I find it so poignant and moving. And also, I'm very curious as to why you think after going through this history, these Canadian veterans would want to go back to, you know, essentially, this war zone for them to be buried there? Like, what was your takeaway

on the why? You know, I feel like, you know, it was a bunch of different reasons. But one thing that kept coming up in conversations and also in articles and archives is, you know, the Canadian government didn't give them recognition for so long, right? This is the government that had pulled these young men together to go fight in this war. And they lost friends, they lost their comrades, and they came back to nothing. So it could be that element. And the South Korean government later really showed them a lot of respect and gratitude that they didn't get from their own government. And, you know, the tape off the top was actually the very first veteran, Archie Hershey, who requested to be buried in 2012 alongside his brother. You know, his brother never made it home from the war. And it was obviously

something that he thought about for many, many years. And the fact that he wanted to be buried alongside his brother after all that time, you know, that was just really beautiful and something that stayed with me for sure. So the Canadian government and much of the public may have moved on, but the veterans clearly never did. And neither did Korean people. And neither did Korean people. Yeah, I think my takeaway is also that the armistice may have stopped the fighting, but not the war. You know, I mean, I feel like North Korea is in the news every day. You know, so much time has passed that the two countries couldn't be more different from each other. You know, economically, politically, culturally, in so many ways. You know, memories of a once unified peninsula have long faded away.

But people like Sun are determined to give credit where credit's due. You know, memories of a once unified peninsula have long faded away. But people like Sun are determined to give credit where credit's due. We came along this far because of Canadian soldiers' contributions. And then, so our sentiment, our feeling towards Canadian soldiers and Canadian people over are is very much of appreciation and then gratitude towards what they have done for Korea. So we feel like it's a duty to organize events and meet with them and connect with them deeply. You know, because this is a very strong relationship and which will be educated to our next generations and they should remember them as well too. Eunice, thank you so much

for sharing this history with us. Yeah, thanks Eunice. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. The Secret Life of Canada was hosted by me, Phelan Johnson, and me, Leah Simone Bowen. It was produced and written

by our co-host, Eunice Kim, with sound design by Graham MacDonald. Our script editor is Yvette Nolan. Research assistance by Andrea Eidinger and CBC Archives. Roshni Nair is our digital producer and our executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. You can find us on our socials and our email is secretlifeofcanada at cbc.ca. Rate and review us wherever you listen. It really helps other people

find the show. Thanks for exploring Canada's hidden history with us. That was an episode from The Secret Life of Canada. You can listen to more episodes right now on the CBC Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.