Front Burner - Georgia's make-or-break election

Episode Date: January 5, 2021

On Tuesday, voters in Georgia go to the polls for a pair of pivotal run-off elections that will determine which party has control of the United States senate. Meanwhile, outgoing President Donald Trump pressured and pleaded with the state's election chief to overturn Joe Biden's win in the state, according to a recorded phone call obtained by the Washington Post this weekend. Today on Front Burner, CBC Washington correspondent Katie Simpson walks us through the high-stakes races in Georgia, and how Trump's baseless claims of election fraud loom over them.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Tomorrow, the United States Congress is set to certify Joe Biden's presidential victory over Donald Trump. Except now, at least a dozen Republican senators have pledged that they will not ratify the results. This over Trump's baseless assertions of electoral fraud in states like Georgia. It's a symbolic move. It won't actually prevent Biden from taking office

on January 20th. But still, what a mess. It's against this backdrop. The two hugely important runoff elections are happening in Georgia today for a pair of crucial seats that will determine which party controls the Senate, shaping American policy for years to come. Today, my colleague Katie Simpson is here to walk us through it all. This is FrontBurner. Hey, Katie, such a pleasure to have you here. Hello. So I know these two runoff elections in Georgia are considered hugely important. And can you remind us why all eyes are on them? So this election will determine which party has control of the U.S. Senate.

It's the most powerful legislative body in the entire country. And right now, Republicans have 50 of the 100 seats. So the Democrats need to win these two seats in these special runoff elections in order to have a 50-50 tie. And the way the rules of the Senate works is when there's a tie, the vice president comes in to break that tie. So essentially, Kamala Harris, who is set to become the vice president, will come in to be that tiebreaker. Now, whichever party controls the U.S. Senate will have a huge impact on Joe Biden's presidency. The Senate can either help implement his agenda or it can really

hinder it and slow it down. Even if the Democrats do win these two seats and take control of the Senate, it doesn't necessarily mean the Senate's really going to rubber stamp all of his agenda items, but it will just make it a little bit easier for Joe Biden to do things like appoint Supreme Court justices and those kinds of things, get his appointments through, move forward on, you know, a COVID relief package, things like that. Right, right. Like big, big policy stuff here, like climate change, Obamacare, health care policy. And so given these very high stakes, these campaigns are going all out. I know there's like this astonishing amount of money that's been spent, literally hundreds of millions of dollars. And apparently Georgia is just wall to wall with political ads right now.

Only you can stop the radical left from total control. John Ossoff won't hold China accountable. He works for them. David Perdue had his chance, but he was too busy looking after his stock portfolio. Raphael Warnock even hates puppies. And so to help me get a sense of these campaigns, can you briefly tell me about the two Republican incumbents here? These are Senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue. So they are the incumbents here. And so they're coming at this race with a bit of an advantage. We'll start with Kelly Loeffler. She was appointed to the Senate under unusual circumstances. The previous senator who had that spot, he retired a year early due to some health concerns. And the governor actually appoints who gets to take that spot.

So she was appointed to this position about a year ago, and so she is running in her first contest here to re-win this seat. I waitressed my way through school, and I was the first in my family to graduate from college. I worked hard to live the American dream and became a job creator right here in Georgia. She's known for running in these incredibly affluent circles in Atlanta. Forbes says she's likely the richest lawmaker on Capitol Hill.

Her and her husband are worth something like $800 million. So she's known from that. So she's coming at this trying to make the case that she's a business person. She's not a typical politician. I know what it means to live paycheck to paycheck. I've done it. And I also know I'm blessed to live the American dream and that's why I'm fighting to protect it.

And she's really aligned herself with Donald Trump and she's seen that to her benefit. Senator, do you believe the election was rigged? Greg, it's very clear that there were issues in this election. There are 250 investigations open. David Perdue, he also comes from the world of business. He was elected six years ago. The way the Senate works in the U.S., it's staggered six-year terms rather than, you know, your shorter term. So he's up for re-election

and he's trying to, again, align himself with Donald Trump. It's something that he's found has been successful for him. I want to say something personal for President Trump. God bless you. We love you, Mr. President. We love the first lady. And we're going to fight and win those two seats and make sure you get a fair square deal in the state of Georgia. God bless you, Mr. President. And so both of these senators are trying to paint the Democrats as socialists, which is something Donald Trump did during the election. We are going to stop socialism in its tracks. Together, we are going to save America. We win Georgia. We save America. But they're also at the same time, they don't want to upset the Trump base. That's why we've

seen them, you know, be really supportive of Donald Trump. Remember, even though Donald Trump lost the election, 74 million Americans still voted for him. So there is a deep well of support there. So right now, you know, some Republicans, Democrats and independent observers are saying that, you know, the president's claims of election fraud in Georgia, they are without merit. There's no evidence to back up those claims. Yet you're seeing these two candidates sort of walk a fine line saying we'll stand with President Trump. Keep investigating these claims. It's vitally important that Georgians trust our election process. And the president has every right to every legal recourse.

And so it's this it's this sort of fine line that they're trying to negotiate right now. Right. Right. I want to get to that a little bit more in a moment. And the Democratic opponents, who I also want to get to that a little bit more in a moment and the Democratic opponents who I also want to get to. But I know that the Democrats are painting Loeffler and Perdue as totally corrupt. We have two United States senators in Georgia who have blatantly used their offices to enrich themselves. This is beyond partisanship. And tell me how so.

So both Loeffler and Perdue, they're they're the incumbents, right? This is beyond partisanship. And tell me how so. But we saw some members of Congress who were investigated because there was concern that did these individuals use knowledge that they were getting privately in their jobs as lawmakers to make decisions about selling stocks? Did they profit? Was there some sort of unsavory business going on there? Now, as I said, there were no charges laid. And part of David Perdue's defense and part of his campaign is like, look, no charges were laid. Part of David Perdue's defense and part of his campaign is like, look, no charges were laid. Perdue was cleared by the bipartisan Senate Ethics Committee, the SEC and DOJ. Perdue was totally exonerated. You know, it's Washington. Everyone always complains about Washington being like a swamp.

And, you know, these kinds of this that this has that swampiness stick to it. So the two Democratic candidates have taken that and taken those allegations and really tried to smear the Republicans with that, saying, listen, these guys are out for themselves. They're not out to help you. That's why you need to vote Democrat. He was buying vaccine and medical equipment stocks and dumping his casino shares while he was getting classified briefings on COVID-19. And by the way, TJ, telling the rest of us it was no deadlier than the flu.

Right, right. And I remember Kelly Loeffler also making headlines early on in the pandemic because of how she was buying and selling stocks too, right? Loeffler and her husband sold stock valued between $1.3 and $3.1 million in the weeks before the market tanked. And also purchases a big chunk of stock in Citrix, which runs like telemeeting software, which just seems like amazing luck. And OK, let's talk about the Democrats, these two Democratic challengers. We've got John Ossoff. He is campaigning against Senator Perdue and then the Reverend Raphael Warnock.

And he's looking to unseat Senator Loeffler. And who who are these two? So we'll start with John Ossoff. He is a former journalist who has really stood out as a rising star in the Democratic Party. Someone, he's young, he can really energize a crowd. Two United States senators who, when they learned about the pandemic that was bearing down on our shores, their first calls were to their stockbrokers. Y'all, we deserve better than David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler. And he's drawn national attention for previous runs for office, even though he lost those previous runs. So people are really watching him and closely watching to see how this goes and if he can finally actually win something here.

Raphael Warnock, he is the pastor at Ebenezer Baptist Church. And some people might know that name because that, of course, was the church of Martin Luther King Jr. So he's a well-known, well-respected leader in the state's spiritual community. I'm a Matthew 25 Christian. That's what I am. I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was sick and you visited me. Love your neighbor. And for me, that means you don't get rid of your neighbor's health care, particularly in the middle of a pandemic. And he actually won the initial sort of vote here. Georgia's Senate races are, it's a little bit strange. In the initial race on that vote that happened on election day, the same day as the presidential election, the rules in Georgia are that each candidate must,

a winner must get 50% of the vote to actually be declared the winner. If they don't get 50 percent of the vote, it then goes to a runoff. No candidate was able to get 50 percent of the vote. And that's why we see these two races taking place this week. Right. Right. And, you know, you mentioned before the Republicans are painting these two guys as as radical socialists, right? Like this is basically their line of attack. It is. And so the attack ads in this campaign, I've spent actually I've spent quite a bit of time in Georgia. Oddly enough, Georgia is a state that makes a lot of news. as if every single commercial is a political ad. $480 million has been pumped into the Senate in terms of the Senate runoff races.

And so that is so much money. And so people are being constantly bombarded. And the way the Democrats and the way the Republicans have gone after this, it's very different. So Kelly Loeffler has gone really hard after Raphael Warnock, trying to paint him as someone who wants to defund the police. Someone who is, you know, he'll bring socialism to the state, things like that. Raphael Warnock called police thugs and gangsters, hosted a rally for communist dictator Fidel Castro, and praised Marxism in speeches and writings. Warnock sided with terrorists who hate America and would destroy Israel.

A lot of very familiar attacks we've seen Republicans launch against Democrats. But one thing she's been cited by by independent fact checkers is that a lot of the attack ads she's been doing, the phrases and words that she's using from Raphael Warnock, they've been taken wildly out of context. And so Warnock has they've been taken wildly out of context. And so Warnock has really actually leaned into that. And some of his ads, they are a lot lighter. They sort of actually mock the fact that that's what it is. Like a number of his ads feature him walking a puppy down the street. We told them the smear ads were coming.

And that's exactly what happened. And the joke is he picks up up, he's got the dog and he's carrying a dog baggie, if everyone knows what I mean, and then he just tosses it in the garbage. But I think Georgians will see her ads for what they are. Don't you? John Ossoff has gone a little harder. He's sort of leaned into the attack about, you know,

look at these swampy things that are going on with these Republicans. They're out to benefit themselves. They're not to benefit you. Has anyone seen David? It's not just that you're a crook, Senator. He's probably on the phone with his broker. So that's where you're seeing it on the other side of it. I'm going to go. Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples.

So look, looming over these races, especially if you're a Republican, are Trump's repeated baseless claims. This is the greatest fraud in the history of our country from an electoral standpoint. And he's been banging this drum since November. And just this past weekend, The Washington Post had this extraordinary report about a phone call he had with Georgia's Republican Secretary of State, where he like, he berated him. You should want to have an accurate election. And you're a Republican. We believe that we do have an accurate election. No, I know you don't. No, no, you don't. You don't have you don't have not even close. You got you're off by hundreds of thousands of votes. And then he flattered him and begged him. I only need 11,000 votes.

Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break. And there's nothing wrong with saying that you've recalculated. You would be respected, if really respected, if this thing could be straightened out before the election.

He threatened him. The ballots are corrupt and you're going to find that they are, which is totally illegal. It's more illegal for you than it is for them because you know what they did and you're not reporting it. That's a criminal offense. This call, Katie, it's wild. All I want to do is this.

I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more that we have, because we won the state. So the thing is, you know, we might be numb to all of the first times we're seeing things happen in the United States right now and all of the sort of the daily outrage or what the news story of the day is. And I really think that this phone call is something that everyone sort of needs to take a pause, listen to it and really understand what we're hearing here. The United States is supposed to be the world's greatest democracy. And you have a sitting president who did not like the results of the election, which has if there were evidence of election fraud, it would have been brought to court and it would have been investigated. But the Trump team has not been able to find the evidence because it doesn't exist. They haven't been able to bring it to the table.

And to hear the president of the United States talking about things he's read on Twitter and putting it to the person who's in charge of an election to say, hey, well, I heard about this. Well, I heard about this. They are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I've heard, and they are removing machinery, both of which are criminal fines. And you can't let it happen. And you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I'm notifying you that you're letting it happen. It's conspiracy theories that he's presenting to this elections official and then trying to pressure him to change the results in his favor. If this were some other country, we'd be talking about, you know, an attempt to steal power here. We are watching in real time an attempt by this outgoing president to try and do everything he can to hold on to power.

Right. Katie, is it illegal? Are people saying what he's done here is illegal, pressuring someone in that position, in Raffensperger's position, to find votes? So some legal scholars are making the argument that what the president did is illegal, but prosecuting it or trying to hold him accountable, it's going to be next to impossible. So whether there's any sort of investigation or any sort of violation of the law, one thing that we can point to for sure is Republicans are looking at this and you're hard pressed to find anyone who will say this phone call is doing anything to help the two Republican candidates who are running for office. How on earth does this help them in any way, shape or form? It's another distraction. It's sowing division within

the party. And so you have to sort of look at this. You've got Trump has a deep well of support. And how many of those people are Trump supporters? And how many of those people are longtime Republicans who are just voting for Trump because he's the head of the party? And if you're going to start splintering those off, it's going to hurt those Republicans who are running in this election because, you know, by all accounts right now, the races, the polls show it's a dead heat in both of the races. Republicans need their reliable base to show up. Republican voters are typically pretty more reliable than Democrats in these runoff elections, if history is going to be any sort of guide here. But any sort of division that might discourage people from participating, that's going to be a problem mostly for the Republicans because there is so much infighting going on in Georgia right now. You know, you mentioned that the phone call isn't doing the Republicans any favors here. And I know that the polls are really close in both of these races.

I wonder if there are concerns that Trump also going on and on about the election being fraudulent might discourage Republicans from turning out to this one. Like, I mean, why bother voting if you think it's all rigged, right? Yeah, so that's what the fear is in Georgia among Republicans. Donald Trump is incredibly popular among his base. He is arguing time and time again that the election was stolen from him, the system is rigged. And so when we went to Georgia back in December, we went to a Trump rally. And one of the questions that I asked every single person that we interviewed was, do Trump's claim about election fraud, do you even want to bother voting if you think the election was stolen? And I probably spoke to about, I don't know, 30 people in this crowd over, you know, the course of a day.

And of those people, I could only find one person who said to me, she didn't think she was going to bother doing it. Are you going to vote in the runoff election? Not in the current system. Why would I? And so when I would put that question to other people the responses I had were well you know what I have to do my part I have to stand up and have my voice heard because I can't sit at home even though I think Donald Trump had this election stolen I need to get out there and do my part because sitting at home does nothing to help. Even if we don't trust the system, we still have to interact with what we have. And what we have is way better than not voting. I plan to vote whether the election's rigged or not. That doesn't mean that I can't try to make a stand to make sure my voice is heard.

And so that really was what I heard from that crowd. But there is concern that as Trump continues to go on with these claims that are unfounded, unsubstantiated, and a lot of it is based on conspiracy theories circulating on Twitter and other social media websites, that there is concern that it will discourage Republicans from voting because they think, well, my vote doesn't count, so why am I going to bother? But from the people that I talked to on the ground, that didn't seem to be a factor.

That is super interesting. So I mentioned at the beginning of the episode that Congress is voting to certify the presidential election results on Wednesday. And some Republican senators have said they're not going to vote to affirm Joe Biden as president, though it's not expected to actually change anything. This is more symbolic than anything else. Trump has been promoting protests in D.C. for that day. He tweeted that it will be, quote, wild. And Katie, what do you think those protests might look like? I know that you're in D.C. right now. So I've covered a couple of these so far in D.C. and what we've seen so far, here's what happens. During the day, it is generally overall, there's

no physical violence during the day. You do have members of the Proud Boys walking through the crowd. They are flashing white power symbols to news cameras as they walk by them. I have seen shouting matches, but I haven't seen any physical violence during the day. protesters who are there, who are Donald Trump supporters, they go home or they go out to dinner in D.C. and they leave. And then as my French colleague described it, he says it's like a game of cat and mouse. These members of the Proud Boys or other Trump supporters are out looking for fights, whether it's with Black Lives Matter protesters or with police. And so we've seen stabbings. We've seen fireworks being shot at people. So there has been violence in the evening. Now, ahead of this protest, it's a little bit different than the other protests that I've covered so far, or at least it feels different. And here's why. The mayor has just put out a statement

that is urging people to stay out of the downtown core on Tuesday and Wednesday, urging locals to stay away, don't engage with the protesters because they anticipate there could be some confrontations. But another thing that's really important in this statement is she issues a reminder about what D.C.'s gun laws are, reminding people you can't, there's no open carry here in D.C. You can't bring a gun to a protest. That's against the law. You can't bring a gun to national property. So it's a reminder. So it's something that's like deeply concerning ahead of this. Wow. All right, Katie um good luck out there please please uh be safe and thank you so much for this

lots for us to keep an eye on so i things before we go today. Both Donald Trump and Joe Biden traveled to Georgia yesterday to make one last pitch to the state's voters. Here's a bit of what Trump had to say at his rally. Hello, Georgia, by the way. There's no way we lost Georgia. There's no way. That was a rigged election. And an update on yesterday's episode, an about face from Alberta Premier Jason Kenney. After initially declining to discipline any of his MLAs or top officials for their international

travel, Kenney has now accepted Tracey Allard's resignation from her cabinet position, as well as the resignation of his chief of staff, Jamie Huckabay. In a Facebook post on Monday afternoon, Kenney also said he demoted five other UCP MLAs who traveled internationally over the holidays. All six of the elected officials will remain in government. And there's more. Federal Conservative Ontario MP David Sweet has resigned from his role as Ethics Committee Chair after traveling to the United States over the holidays, and he announced he would not seek

re-election. That's all for today. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.