Front Burner - Ghislaine Maxwell’s sex-trafficking trial

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

Longtime Jeffrey Epstein companion Ghislaine Maxwell is on trial in New York City this month, facing decades in prison over allegations of sex trafficking and conspiracy, all related to her relationship with the convicted sex offender and financier. Maxwell maintains that she is innocent. Victoria Bekiempis is reporting on the trial for the Guardian. As the trial approaches its conclusion, she explains the prosecution’s case, the accuser’s testimony, and how the defence pushed back.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. Today, like most other days this month, Ghislaine Maxwell will sit in a New York City courtroom where a judge and jury hear the case that will decide her fate. Closing arguments are set to begin today.

Maxwell faces decades in prison. She stands accused of sex trafficking and conspiracy related to her long, notorious relationship with the sex offender and financier Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein, of course, is dead. That leaves the Maxwell trial as one of the few avenues for justice left for many of his victims, even ones like Jennifer Rose, who does not allege that Maxwell was involved in her abuse.

Of course, I want any of the co-conspirators or anybody involved. I mean, it was a huge web, a big enterprise. And I want everybody who's involved to, you know, face their day in court and have justice. Maxwell is pleading not guilty to all charges. Victoria B. Kempis is a reporter for The Guardian. She's been at the courthouse since the trial kicked off in late November. And she's here with me now to talk about how the prosecution made their case, the testimony heard, and how the defense has pushed back.

Hi, Victoria. Thank you so much for making the time to come on to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Before we get into the evidence and testimony that you've been reporting on from the trial, I was hoping we could step back and talk about what this trial is actually about, because I think there's been so much reporting on Jeffrey Epstein and his really quite extensive crimes and so much on Ghislaine Maxwell's alleged involvement too. But what is it that she's now actually on trial for? Of course, Ghislaine Maxwell is facing six counts in her Manhattan federal court trial, and those counts are for sex trafficking and conspiracy. Over a course of a decade, from 1994 to 2004, and in the charging papers against her, there are four accusers.

accusers and in court they were referred to as jane kate carolyn and um annie farmer testified under her full name and in essence uh elaine maxwell is accused of facilitating jeffrey epstein's abuse by luring in you know vulnerable girls by um getting them to have a sexual encounter or encounters with Epstein under the guise of massage and also being present when this abuse occurred and sometimes participating. And prosecutors have said that one of the ways that Maxwell worked to groom these victims was by being present when they were first interacting with Epstein to make them feel better. You know, there's an older woman present, you know, how could something strange possibly going on if this, you know, maternal and friendly figure who had shown so much interest in their lives were present? I want to get to the specifics of these women's testimony in just one moment. But first, at the beginning in the introduction, we heard from one of Epstein's

accusers. She talked about this huge web, a big enterprise. But before people think that they're going to learn about Epstein's associations with high profile figures like Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Prince Andrew, Bill Gates, other corporate titans. Is it fair to say that the scope of this trial is actually fairly narrow? That's an incredibly important point that you've brought up. And the answer is largely yes. In speaking with, you know, a longtime federal prosecutor to kind of get a sense about how the trial would proceed, you know, with regard to the Jeffrey Epstein question, she told me, yes, of course, Jeffrey Epstein is integral to the allegations against Maxwell and the charges against her, but he's not on trial. He's dead. This can't be

a trial about Jeffrey Epstein. Accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein is dead. Officials say the disgraced financier died by suicide, taking his own life while awaiting trial in a New York City jail cell. He faced close to half a century in prison if convicted. Epstein's accusers furious tonight, saying he won't have to face justice while they have to live with their scars for the rest of their lives. The bombshell development- And indeed, we are not learning about every single crime that he committed. Yes, names have come up throughout the course of this trial.

Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Prince Andrew, Glenn Dubin, the hedge fund manager, his wife, former Miss Sweden, Ava Dubin. So yes, you know, names have come up. But as far as any bombshells about the conspiracy directly in relation to Epstein, like, no, we are not learning about every single misdeed in his life or how he was able to so successfully ingratiate himself with the rich and powerful of the world and carry this out for decades upon decades upon decades. I want to spend a little bit more time talking about the women. As you mentioned, the court has her testimony from four accusers. And I wonder if we could start with Jane. The alleged victim using the pseudonym Jane in court.

She's accusing Jeffrey Epstein's one-time girlfriend of grooming her, sexually abusing her, and forcing her to engage in sex acts with Epstein. What was her testimony like? Jane was 14 years old when she met Maxwell and Epstein. During her testimony, she said that she met Maxwell when she was attending a renowned youth arts camp in Michigan, and she said that she was Maxwell when she was attending a renowned youth arts camp in Michigan. And she said that she was sitting around with her friends eating ice cream in this area where kids would socialize. And this tall, thin woman approached us. This woman had a cute little Yorkie dog.

And people there, including Jane and her friends, asked if they could pet the dog. Everyone started chit-chatting. Her friends then went to their respective classes and Maxwell remained. They continued chatting and then a man comes over, as it turns out to be Jeffrey Epstein. Conversation continues and they find out that Jane is from Palm Beach. They say, oh, well, you know, I'm paraphrasing here, but Epstein and Maxwell effectively say, oh, well, we're in Palm Beach, too. What's your mom's phone number?

And when Jane returns home from the arts camp, they give her mom a call and Jane and her mother eventually go to Epstein's house where they have tea. And as Jane described it, one day when she was at Epstein's house, she was talking to him and he told her that she needed to be more firm and more decisive about her goals in the arts. And Jane said that all of a sudden he took her by the wrist into the pool house and sexually assaulted her. And then, you know, Jane testified sexual encounters with Epstein continued over the next three years. She was 14, 15, 16. And she said that there were times when Maxwell was present in the room during the sexual abuse. She told the court, Ghislaine was very casual, acting like it wasn't a big deal. I was abused pretty much every time I went to his house. After a while, you just became numb to it. And she also said that sometimes Maxwell touched her breasts. And perhaps one of the most harrowing lines of testimony was when Jane said, there were

hands everywhere. And that was her description of one alleged sexual encounter with Maxwell and Epstein. One of the other accusers, Carolyn, it sounded like she had a really rough life. She says she went to Epstein's house over a hundred times. She also said that one day Maxwell walked in when she was nude and touched her body in three places. She said it had a great body for Mr. Epstein and his friends. She said it had a good body type. When she was 14, it must be really sad, really disturbing to hear some of this testimony sitting in this courtroom. What did she say happened to her and the impact that it had on her?

What did she say happened to her and the impact that it had on her? Well, the way that Carolyn described how this has impacted her, I mean, she is continuing to reel from the trauma that was inflicted on her by Jeffrey Epstein. And for example, when she was a teen, she said that she kept going to his house because she needed the money for the drugs that she needed in order to get through the appointments. Caroline also mentioned that she got paid for those massages, $300 if she was alone, $600 if she invited along a friend. She also said that both... As you had mentioned, she was very vulnerable before these encounters with Epstein started. $600 if she invited along a friend. things really, you know, spiraled out of control for her in terms of addiction and later mental health, you know, after her encounters with Epstein, his, you know, after he assaulted her. And, you know, the way that she has described her life now, you know, she said during testimony that,

you know, she does have mental health issues, including schizophrenia. And she, you know she does have mental health issues including schizophrenia and she you know it was apparent on the witness stand that she she clearly understands you know she's not she's not detached from reality and just to be clear I'm not saying that a person with schizophrenia is you know detached from reality but she described how when she hears voices, how they are all about the dangers that her daughters face due to exploitation and the risk of violence. And to me, that was just particularly harrowing to hear that these thoughts to be centered on, you know, having to do everything to protect her daughters from suffering the same kind of abuse that she did was just incredibly difficult to hear. I'm going to go. through Angel Investment and Industry Connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Another woman I wanted to mention,

Annie Farmer. Some people may have heard her tell her story before on the New York Times podcast, The Daily. You know, Ghislaine was exactly as Marie described, very charming from the get-go. She made you feel special. You know, she's like, oh, let's pick out some, like, I got some henna to dye my hair with and took me to buy cowboy boots. And I thought, oh my gosh, she's actually really nice because they were like $100. For Annie Farmer's testimony, I think it was one of the clearest depictions of how the grooming process worked. When Annie Farmer originally met Jeffrey Epstein in late 1995, she was going to New York City to visit her sister Maria who was working for him as a fine arts painter and at first the visit was totally normal he seemed just like a friendly low-key guy despite his um your wealth but as Annie described it things got you know strange when the three of

them went to see a movie and um at some point he starts to kind of like, you know, reach out to hold my hand. And then he sort of started kind of caressing it. And then at some point he would touch my shoe and like kind of rub my foot and things like that. And, you know, she wrote in a journal after she got home that, you know, she was really, you know, it was weird. But she wasn't really 100% sure, it was weird, but she wasn't really a hundred percent sure that it was like a bad thing. You know, because I felt so uncomfortable, but then I was also trying to go back and forth in my mind between whether or not, is this weird? I mean, it feels weird to me, but maybe he's like kind of fatherly towards me.

But, you know, it did, it did stick out to her as odd enough that when her mom informed her that she would be traveling to Epstein's New Mexico ranch for a weekend. And this was in spring of 1996. She was 16 at the time. She really didn't want to go, but was a little bit relieved to hear that Yelena would be there. For a 16-year-old Annie Farmer, a trip to Jeffrey Epstein's New Mexico ranch was a window of opportunity, a chance to mix with a billionaire and his girlfriend. She described Ghislaine Maxwell as trim, attractive and well-dressed. She hoped they could help her pay for university. She had been told that Yelande was actually Epstein's wife.

And so it was a kind of a thing that would ensure a lot of confidence because, oh, well, not only is this older woman going to be there in capacity as a sort of chaperone, but also, you know, if he's there with his romantic partner, you know, why would he try anything weird? And, you know, when she arrived in New Mexico, she describes Epstein and Maxwell taking her into town for excursions. And, you know, they saw another movie. And what she noticed during that movie is, again, you know, Epstein made physical contact with her. during that movie is again you know epstein made physical contact with her but unlike when this happened during the movie with her sister he didn't try to hide this around elaine and when they returned home after one of the excursions it was decided as annie said that's when gillian was

um gave me like a lesson in rubbing epstein's feet and was like, you know, he really loves to get foot massages and this is something that'd be good for you to learn how to do. But you know, it was, it was uncomfortable, but they had this very casual way of like making jokes and stuff. So Maxwell started to massage Epstein's feet and tell Annie what to do and Annie participated. And according to Annie, Maxwell said something to the effect of, well, have you ever gotten a professional massage? It's such a great experience. I would love to give you that experience and, you know, told Annie to disrobe and, you know, get on the massage table. She said, you know, that I would take off my clothes and lay under the sheet. She had me, you know, flip over to my back

and then she would like pull the sheet down so that my breasts were exposed. This feels weird. This feels uncomfortable. I don't think this is probably right, but I don't know. Again, that was, to me, a very, you know, striking depiction of how the aggrubing process worked when it comes to how prosecutors are laying out Maxwell's specific role in bringing girls into Epstein's orbit. Beyond putting the accusers on the stand, the prosecution also seemed to try to present to the jury a really vivid picture of the life and environs that Epstein and Maxwell shared. And just briefly, can you tell me about some of the more unsettling things found in Epstein's homes? Of course. One of the most unsettling things that was found in

his home was what prosecutors described as a sexually suggestive photograph of a very young girl that was displayed prominently outside Epstein's bedroom at his Palm Beach mansion. There was another photo of Epstein posing with a minor in her underwear. Prosecutors arguing the photos alongside testimony from a former property manager undermines the defense's argument that Epstein was an upstanding member of society. We can hear, you know, schoolgirl costumes were also recovered during a search of Epstein's Manhattan home. And we also actually saw in court one of the massage tables that was seized at his Palm Beach home. And I think that something that's incredibly important about this massage table is it really is a piece of physical evidence that takes away

the abstraction of some of these allegations. It really, I believe, grounds the testimony in a way that, you know, narrative descriptions of what, you know, these women have said provide. Victoria, how has the defense responded to the case that the prosecution is laying out here, starting, if we could, with how they treated the accusers and their testimony in cross-examination. So with regard to how the defense has been treating the accusers during their cross-examination, you know, the key tactic was really trying to find any type of inconsistency in their testimony, be it from the date they might have been in a place or a particular show they might have seen. Just trying to kind of chip away at any minor inconsistency

in an attempt to undermine their accounts. And also bringing up, you know, well, did you receive money from the, you know, Jeffrey Epstein Victims Fund? Right, right. I know they were sort of implying with Carolyn, for example, that she was motivated by financial gain. And there was quite a harrowing moment in the trial, right? She responded really strongly to that. Yes, yes. And she said something to the effect of, like, I would rather, you know, have never gotten this money if it meant that never, you know, that none of this had happened to me. It was a very, very dramatic moment on redirect.

I think people watching this trial might have been a bit surprised by, or I certainly was, by how quickly the defense's case went by. So it only took two days. They arrested on Friday. And more broadly, I wonder if you could just tell us what the defense's case on behalf of Ghislaine Maxwell has been like what has their general approach been to me what one of the most important things about the defense case wasn't unique necessarily from where it was coming from but it was unique in that this is a very very high bar to achieve The defense was trying to make Yulene likable and kind of take her away from the image that prosecutors conveyed, that she was this icy, high-flying socialite that looked down on Epstein's employees.

You know, there is one moment of testimony when his former house manager in Palm Beach said, Ms. Maxwell told me to never look obscene in the eyes. So they called two of Maxwell's former assistants who basically described her in these very glowing terms, like almost conveying that she was like more like one of them, like a working woman as opposed to like, you know, this elite figure. And so, you know, trying to make a client seem likable is not a surprising thing. But trying, I think, with, you know, this client and trying to do it in a way that to dispel like this class issue, I think was, you know, kind of interesting. Mm hmm. I heard Maxwell's lawyer started her opening argument by going like all the way back to the Old

Testament. Yes. Yes. I mean, that is basically one of the most striking things is that, you know, Sternheim alluded to Adam and Eve and how historically women have been blamed for the misdeeds of men, you know, trying to detach her and separate her from Epstein and what he did. And she shouldn't be blamed for, you know, someone else's, a man's misdeeds. But, but I also know that some of the witnesses for

the defense defended Epstein's character. And so I'm just trying to figure out how that squares with our strategy to say that, that she shouldn't be blamed for his misdeeds, right? Like, did you hear a coherent argument over the two days? And so that's another kind of interesting point is because this seems to be kind of a two-pronged thing. She shouldn't be blamed for what Epstein did, but also, you know, was there any evidence that Epstein did anything wrong?

You know, for example, like on cross-examination, asking the pilots, well, did you see any type of sexual activity on the plane with Epstein did anything wrong. You know, for example, like on cross-examination, asking the pilots, well, did you see any type of sexual activity on the plane with Epstein or underage girls? And, you know, as you said, the defense witnesses, the two assistants who testified, talked about Epstein, you know, you know, oh, he was nice. So it is interesting because there's those two aspects.

Like, well, you know, nobody said that they saw him doing anything. But also, like, well, you know, she shouldn't be blamed for what he did. So that's also kind of an interesting situation to be in. Victoria, before we go, do you have a sense of when we'll get a verdict here? You know, juries are very unpredictable. We, you know, don't know really how long this will take or how the verdict will go. deliberating because if they get the case Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning, they only have, you know, a little bit over two days or two days to deliberate before the Christmas holiday. So

her lawyers have voiced concern that, you know, jurors might not necessarily even feel pressured, but might want to return a verdict because they don't want to return to court. So I am, you know, interested to see, you know, interested to see, you know, what the timing winds up being with this. Yeah. All right. Well, it's just a bit of a waiting game now, it seems like. Victoria, thank you so, so much for this. Thank you so, so much for talking to me. I really do appreciate it. I really do appreciate it. All right.

So before we go today, stricter public health measures are taking effect in Ontario as the province reported more than 4,000 new cases on Sunday, the highest number since April. Restaurants, gyms and many other indoor settings now have a 50% capacity limit and no more than 10 people can attend indoor social gatherings. Meanwhile, Quebec reported 3,846 new cases Sunday. That's a single-day record for the province. Among the new cases there is Montreal's Mayor Valérie Plante. She announced she tested positive on Saturday. Similar new measures there go into

effect today. That is all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. If you liked this episode, please give us a rating or review on iTunes or on whatever app you listen to the show on. It really makes a difference in helping new listeners find us. You can also follow us on Twitter at FrontBurnerCBC. You can also follow us on Twitter at FrontBurnerCBC.