Front Burner - Habs vs Leafs: A short history

Episode Date: May 24, 2021

As the Montreal Canadiens and Toronto Maple Leafs face off in the Stanley Cup playoffs for the first time since 1979, CBC Montreal reporters Jonathon Montpetit and Antoni Nerestant break down the historic rivalry between the two teams.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC, Hockey Night in Canada. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. Hockey Night in Canada welcomes viewers from coast to coast of Maple Leaf Gardens as the Montreal Canadiens are here the Habs and the Leafs faced off in the NHL playoffs.

Much has changed since then. Maple Leaf Gardens and the Forum are barns of the past. The National Hockey League now has more than just 17 teams. And helmets are mandatory. But there is this one constant. The legendary and very enduring rivalry between the Montreal Canadiens and the Toronto Maple Leafs. The Canadians would not be the Canadians without the Maple Leafs.

The Maple Leafs would not be the Maple Leafs without the Canadians. I like the Red Sox, Yankees, I guess. As a Habs fan, I'm kind of in admiration of Toronto fans who continue to cling to hopes. This week, for the first time since 1979, the Leafs and the Habs are facing off in round one of the Stanley Cup playoffs. So today, I'm joined by two fans and two friends of this podcast to explain why people have been waiting more than four decades for this series. John Montpetit and Anthony Naristan are both CBC Montreal reporters.

Hey, Anthony. Hey, John. Welcome back. It is great to have you both. Hey, Jamie. Glad to be on. Hey, Jamie. So look, before I get dragged for bringing on two Montreal reporters to talk about the Leafs and the Habs, I just want to establish allegiances here. Anthony, who are you cheering for this week? No question. Go Leafs, go. Okay. And like, as a French speaking Montrealer, it's kind of a brave thing to admit being a Leafs fan, right? And I understand you're like a lifetime Leafs fan. Like, since I was nine years old, basically, like late 90s is when I started becoming a Leafs fan, and it hasn't changed since.

It's not easy being a Leafs fan in Montreal. All your friends look at you like you're a weirdo. They're wondering why you cheer for the blue and white, but that hasn't deterred me in any way. It's still Go Leafs Go. It hasn't been a smooth ride, but here we are in the playoffs with a chance to knock off the Canadiens. So that should be fun if we get a chance to do it. John, tell me then how different things were for you growing up in your family. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't have the same kind of personality flaw that Antony has.

I support the correct team, the Montreal Canadiens, and I've always supported the Montreal Canadiens. And I've always supported the Montreal Canadiens. I think, you know, for me, I'm just a relentless homer. Whoever the home team is, I support them regardless of how good or bad they are. And, you know, lately hasn't always been the best teams that the Habs have fielded. But yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, I grew up in a family. My great-grandfather played for the Montreal Canadiens. And so I grew up just kind of surrounded by the lore of the Montreal Canadiens,

you know, surrounded by, you know, my grandparents, you know, or my father or my mother just telling me about, you know, the great teams of the 50s and 60s and 70s, you know, the exploits of Gila Fleur dashing down the wing with that hair, and it was great. And then, you know, then, of course, you know, I was 13 when the when the Canadians won the Stanley Cup in 93. And so that was, you know, a huge deal, a huge deal in my life. And now a 24th Stanley Cup banner will hang from the rafters of the famous forum in Montreal. The Canadians win the Stanley Cup. Look, these two teams are Canada's oldest in the league with 100 years of history each.

And part of the reason, you know know i think this series is so exciting is that of the 15 times that they've met in in playoff series the winner has gone on to win the stanley cup every time except for once in in 1925 right john that's yeah that's right i mean that's right and and usually it was the montreal canadians going on to win the stanley cup we should just maybe note that right i i i maybe worth noting here uh uh the the canadians going on to win the stanley cup we should just maybe note that right i i i maybe worth noting here uh uh the the canadians have won the stanley cup more than any other team 24 times right the leafs second with 13 but this all happened a very long time ago right anthony john who's the better team now like i know you like to live in the past but who's the better team

right now well as you know antonio i i like to take a macro view of these things i don't know why you need to abstract to this one particular moment with the macro view here it's it's undeniable that there's one team that's superior than the other um okay okay and we're gonna get there we're gonna get there but first let's let's talk a little bit more about the history of this rivalry some of which has been immortalized in canadian lore like the tragically hip song 50 mission cap and anthony tell me tell me a bit about that yeah uh i've heard that story countless times i'm sure a lot of people have um bill barilko who scored the game winning goal goal, the cup-winning goal actually in overtime against the Habs back in the early 50s, I think it was 1951.

His plane disappeared on a fishing trip, and that tragedy tragedy sort of been immortalized in the song by the Tragically Hip a song called 50 Mission Cap and the Leafs adding to this story is the fact that the Leafs didn't win another cup until 1962 you know that's a pretty crazy story that just adds to the lore and just the appeal of this rivalry, even if these are two teams that haven't played a lot. And that's actually a song that played a lot during Game 2 of the Leafs and the Habs in this series. So pretty, pretty cool story. Right, right. I know Gord Downie apparently took the lyrics literally from a hockey cart.

John, I also have this book in my kids' room. It's called The Hockey Sweater by Rock Carrier. And I know there's an animated version of it as well. And talk to me about this very famous book. Yeah, I mean, so this book, it's about a young boy who's a Montreal Canadiens fan and growing up in Quebec. Two events were mandatory.

The mass on Sunday and the Saturday night hockey game. And he's particularly obsessed with Maurice Richard. His mother has kind of determined that his hockey sweater is a bit tattered. And so she writes to the Big Bad department store in Toronto to ask for a new hockey sweater, a new Montreal Canadian sweater is obviously what the boy wants. But lo and behold, what comes in the mail is this horrendous blue and white thing bearing the Maple Leafs logo.

All my friends wore the red, white, and blue sweatshirt. And besides, the Toronto team was always being beaten by the Canadians. And this poor kid, he has to go. He has to go to play on the local rink. Everyone else is wearing the Montreal Canadiens sweater. Everyone else is the number nine for Morse Richard. And this poor kid has to play with the Maple Leafs sweater. And, you know, he's ridiculed. He experiences, you know, social injustice and alienation because of the Maple Leafs sweater that he's wearing. And he gets angry. He gets so angry, he breaks his stick on

the ice. And the priest, who's also the referee, banishes him and says, you know, you gotta go to the church and you gotta pray for forgiveness. The book ends with the boy in the church praying, ostensibly praying for forgiveness, but the last lines of the book are, I asked God to send me right away

a hundred million moths that would eat up my Toronto Maple Leafs sweater. Let's get into other specific moments here. So it's been 54 years since the Leafs have won a Stanley Cup, not to rub it in, which was against the Montreal Canadiens. And Anthony, bring me back to that 1967 finals for a moment. The Leafs, you know, they were underdogs in that series. They had a lot of veteran players, if not to say older players, that would pass their primes. And the Canadiens just had this really great team.

They were a machine. And I think the Leafs were pretty far back of the Canadiens in the standings and the Leafs won that series 4-2. But just to give you an idea of how good the Canadians were, there are two wins. I think there were like the blowout wins, six to two wins. But the Leafs found the way to win the series, including a game winning goal by Bob Pulford in double overtime. So I've heard that story many times because unfortunately, that's not only the last time the Leafs won the Cup, but it's also the last time they went back to the finals. And I could be wrong, but I think the Canadians have won 10 Cups since then.

And that's just a wide gap. And really, to me, it kind of explains like Habs fans, they like to rub it in, those 24 cups. But it's not just the 24 cups. It's 10 cups since the last time the Leafs have even been back to the finals. And when people bring that up, there's nothing. There's really nothing I can say. Right, right. This was like the last dynasty.

We're talking about players like Johnny Bauer and Dave Keon, Tim Horton. These were legends in hockey. Since then, I know the Leafs haven't won a cup, but they have played the Habs twice in the playoffs, the last being in 1979. And take me through what happened then. It didn't go well for the Leafs. I believe the Canadians just completely destroyed the Toronto Maple Leafs in that series back in 1979. The Canadians win it at 4-14 of overtime with Williams in the penalty box. The Leafs are furious with the official.

And they just casually went on their way to winning a fourth straight Stanley Cup. And just going back to what I said, the least I've won since 1967, and the Canadians were just collecting rings one after the other through the late 60s, 70s, and even getting some cups in the 80s and 90s. So the Canadians team of that era is really considered one of the best hockey teams of all time like when you consider winning the cup in 76 77 78 79 and only to kind of be followed by those uh those islander teams in the 80s uh i mean it's it's undeniable that it kind of just

you know widened the gap between the two franchises the leafs and the canadians uh and yeah it didn't go very well for the Leafs. Right. And John, like we talked about the Toronto dynasty in the 60s, but this is the Montreal dynasty. And, you know, I don't want to get nailed for saying this because I don't follow a ton of hockey, but my understanding is this is one of the biggest dynasties in all of sports, right?

Yeah. I mean, I think there's amongst hockey aficionados, those Canadian, Montreal Canadian teams, particularly of the late 70s that, you know, Anthony was mentioning, one of those four cups, are acknowledged as probably the best hockey teams that have been put together in the history of the game. And, you know, he's like, you know, Guy Lafleur, Steve Schutz,

Serge Savard, Ken Dryden and Nets. I mean, look at the list of players and basically the whole roster ended up in the Hockey Hall of Fame. And, you know, and that's just the most recent Canadiens dynasty. And like, I think it's pretty special, I think, in sports for any time a club can kind of put together multiple dynasties. Let's move to the 90s now. And so a really exciting moment for the Habs here, which we'll get to in a moment. But first, it was preceded by a massive upset for the Leafs. Tell me about the big moment when Wayne Gretzky

foiled the Leafs' chances of playing the Habs in the 93 finals. Yeah, I mean, Wayne Gretzky, the greatest player, widely regarded as the greatest player of all time, went head-to-head with Doug Gilmore. And that high stick from Wayne Gretzky haunts Leafs fans to this day. The high stick in overtime in Game 6. The Leafs were leading the series 3-2. They're one goal away from getting to the Stanley Cup Finals to play against the Montreal Canadiens. And I believe that was a milestone year for the league.

I think it was like milestone year for the league. I think it was like the 100th year and it would have just been this special moment to have the Leafs and the Habs play for the Cup and after the Leafs took a penalty, referee Kerry Fraser, he missed like a blatant high stick. Gilmore's cut, it comes back out, Gilmore gets it and there's where Gretzky's stick came up and hit Gilmore. So instead of the Leafs getting a penalty, Gretzky scores the game-winner moments later. Oh, the time gets it back center. They score.

Gretzky scores. Leafs still had a shot to win the series in seven, but, you know, they didn't. Gretzky had a huge game, and it was the Kings, the LA Kings versus the Montreal Canadiens, which is not as special as the Leafs and the Habs. I'm sure John didn't mind that the Leafs didn't make it to the Kings, the LA Kings versus the Montreal Canadiens, which is not as special as the Leafs and the Habs. I'm sure John didn't mind that the Leafs didn't make it to the finals at the time, but just a huge blown opportunity. And honestly, the Leafs haven't had that peak moment, a moment where it really felt like they could win the Cup since then. Growing up in Toronto, I can't even, so many people I know talk about this moment all the time. John, the Habs then go on to win the Cup, right?

That is right. And it didn't really matter if it was going to be the Leafs or the Kings. The Habs were destined to win that year. I mean, that was such a special team. They won just a series of games in overtime. They were undefeated, I think, in overtime during that playoff run. And I feel sorry for you guys. There's always some kind of complicated excuse that Leafs fans have to come up with

to explain why they didn't win this year or why they didn't win that year or how they blew that lead or how that series suddenly went wrong. My sympathies to you all but uh yeah 93 was uh was a really really great time and uh i'm unlike anthony i'm you know i'm thankful that i have a living memory of the montreal canadians winning the stanley cup anthony do you want to respond to that i feel like i feel like you should get to respond to that well for one even though i don't want to just live in the hypothetical past, but I'm sure many Leafs fans feel that they would have beaten the Montreal Canadiens. That was a really good team with Doug Gilmore and those guys.

So the Canadiens, as is often the case, get a lucky break and end up facing a team that was less of a handful than the Toronto Maple Leafs. And even though I've never seen the Leafs win a cup, I do believe I'm convinced, John, that the Leafs are going to win a cup before the Montreal Canadiens. Okay. So I know obviously rivalries are really common, right? Like it's not just the Leafs and the Habs. But I wonder historically, has there been more going on with this rivalry beyond hockey? Yeah, I think there's no question.

The team was founded, it was kind of founded on this idea that it would be a home for French-speaking players. And that's always been at its heart. But I think especially in the 1950s, you have the Richard Riot in 55. There's this idea that the Canadians embody not just a hockey club but like you know the aspirations of the quebec people and um and because at that time the power of montreal is being sapped to the advantage of of toronto and then toronto feels this uh you know has a hockey team that montreal you know beats continually um i think, I think helps kind of reinforce the intensity of that rivalry between Montreal and Toronto.

And Anthony, I wonder if you have anything to add there, why you think this rivalry has persisted and has persisted as one of the most passionate rivalries in sport, despite the fact that these teams actually don't play each other very much, right? Like, because the way the league has been set up now, they don't actually play each other a ton. I think one thing, if I look back at, like, my personal experiences, is the fact that a lot of people in Montreal feel as though the Leafs get too much attention on the national level

when it comes to coverage. So, you know, there's also, like John said, there's this social political undertone to this rivalry where there's a rivalry between the residents in the two cities. It goes beyond hockey. So the fact that, you know, they both have hockey teams, it's naturally going to spill into the sport like there's just this this this competition constantly between Montreal and Toronto two distinct cultures that in a way are perceived as representing two languages in Canada and it doesn't matter that they haven't played in a while it's it feels like Habs fans if the Habs are doing bad they're looking at the Leafs and the Leafs are doing worse they'll be like well at least we're not as bad as the Leafs and vice versa.

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present. And so tell me, in 2021, how do these two teams stack up against each other? I'm going to be a bit more humble than John. And the only reason I'm going to do this is because as a Leafs fan, I'm scarred. They haven't been to the playoffs since 2004. So even though on paper, this is a complete mismatch, the Leafs are way better than the Montreal Canadiens.

They played 10 times this year because of the whole situation with COVID-19 and having border restrictions and having this all-Canadian division. They played 10 times and the Leafs have won seven of those. It's not even close. The Leafs should win this series, and I expect the Leafs to win this in five or six games, tops. All right. John, I'll let you respond to that.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think the essence of the Toronto Maple Leafs is to lose. I mean, in order for them to win, they have to kind of reverse this kind of their fate, and that's difficult. Of course, as a person of filled with goodwill i i wish them luck on this endeavor but um do you feel like you don't it doesn't sound like it at all but whatever you know as much as i'd like to argue with antony i think he's right the you know the toronto has a has a just a really strong team canadians they outperform in playoffs

they often have a kind of a middling team heading into playoffs. And there's something that the vibes of the city that they can channel and kind of beat expectations. They did it last year. And I fully expect them to do it again this year. And, you know, I've already pre-ordered Kleenex for Antony, which I plan to send his way because, you know, I think it's going to be a couple of, you know, some tough games ahead for him. And talk to me about what you saw in game one and game two. Did that play out that the Canadians, you know,

do better in the playoffs? Well, game one, definitely. I mean, the kind of a rope-a-dope win by the Canadians, you know, two breakaway goals. You know, that just beautiful goal by Paul Byron on the breakaway. Gets there, down, scored! What a brilliant goal by Paul Byron, shorthanded. I think game two, you know, obviously, you know, Toronto as the financial and political centre of Canada, You know, obviously, you know, Toronto as the financial and political centre of Canada, clearly the refs were paid off and kind of ensure that the Leafs win. Paul's shooting rebound scores!

Austin Matthews back from Marner. And it's Sandin scores! Her foot with an empty net. And he will finish. And 15 makes it 5-1 Toronto. The series moves back to Montreal now. And, you know, again, you know, Canadians can kind of like, you know, count on those ghosts. You know, they used to call the ghosts of the Montreal Forum.

You know, hopefully there are a few still lurking at the Bell Centre. And, you know, a few lucky bounces. And this is a whole new series. Right, right. And that game is tonight. a few lucky bounces, and this is a whole new series. Right, right, and that game is tonight. Anthony, they did come sort of roaring back in the second game despite the fact that something really horrific happened

during the first game. Toronto captain John Tavares was struck in the head accidentally by Canadian player Corey Perry and had to be stretched right off. No, you just worry. The hit was right to the head. Oh, boy, that is scary. They're going to need the medical crew, and the officials now are calling for that right away.

He has a concussion, and he's out indefinitely. What do you think this means for the team? It's a huge blow, and beyond talking about the hockey part that was really really difficult to watch you know the Leafs were rattled uh and it showed the the Canadians I think they scored like a minute after um as far as what this means for the team of course you want that like storybook ending of win one for John Tavares but he's a major like this is a major hole in their Leafs lineup but I do think the Leafs have what it takes and they have more than enough firepower to make up for his loss Look, final question for you both. I know these teams have been playing each other more this season

just because of COVID and the way that the league is structured. So I imagine that that does help the enthusiasm going into this playoff series. But also right now we're watching all the other series in the nhl playoffs with fans in the stands in the u.s and and here the stands are empty and and given this rivalry given everything that we have just talked about uh i i imagine that if there were um fans in the stands obviously these games would be loud right like? Like they would be raucous. And I wonder how has it felt for you both watching the games with empty stands? Also like not being able to be in bars,

you know, yelling at TVs with friends or even to go out on the streets and celebrate. Antti? It's a complete missed opportunity. Like it's great that they're playing against one another, but to not have any fans either at the Scotiabank or at the Bell Centre is really, really unfortunate. It would be a completely different series.

The emotion would be even higher than it is now. After what happened to John Tavares, even though it was an accident, I do think it's going to add to the bad blood between the two teams. They're only two games in, and this is only going to get more and more intense. But if you add fans to the equation, whether it ends in five or six games, it's guaranteed to be a classic. And to just be alone at home watching the game,

it's just not the same as it would have been, you know, with Maple Leafs, Maple Leafs Square being packed or all the bars around the city of Montreal being packed and things of that nature. So it is unfortunate. And honestly, you just hope that after this series that you don't wait another 42 years or however long it's been before they play again,

because I think this is like a nice little preview big picture wise but this needs to happen more often and especially with fans in the seats john yeah i mean the bell center is a pretty loud place on a regular season night and and it just gets electric during the playoffs and so so that's obviously a necessary measure given the public health situation. But it is kind of surreal to watch playoff hockey without thousands of cheering fans. And one of the nice things in Montreal is when during the playoff time, you actually don't even need to watch the game to know that the Habs have scored. All you just need is, as long as your window is open, you will hear people cheer and honk or whatever it is.

And that will tell you how the game is going. And so it is kind of happening in this weird context, but rivalries are great for sports. And like Antonia, I really hope this is just the first series between between these two teams and i would love to see them clash again in the in the playoffs uh because anytime they face each other the tempo is higher the hockey tends to be pretty good and um you know as a fan of the game it's something you just love to see guys thank you for this i wish you both the best of luck over the coming days. Thank you.

Thank you very much. And good luck to John. You'll need it. I hope you lose, Anthony. So a big milestone re-vaccinations worth mentioning today. This past weekend, Canada officially surpassed vaccinating half its total population with one dose. On Sunday, the tally was about 21 million people. dose. On Sunday, the tally was about 21 million people. The vaccination rate is one of the reasons why the Quebec government last week announced that up to 2,500 people would be allowed inside the Bell Centre in Montreal as of May 29th. Though of course, the Leaves Hab series has to make it

to game six for that to happen. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. Talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.