Front Burner - Homeless encampments, COVID-19, and Canada's housing crisis

Episode Date: August 4, 2020

Since the start of the pandemic, homeless encampments have multiplied in parks across Canada. City officials are worried about safety and sanitation, and as a result, many have tried to dismantle such camps, with varying degrees of success. That's because some residents are fighting for their right to stay. Today on Front Burner, you'll meet residents of one encampment in Toronto. And, Leilani Farha, former UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Housing and global director of the housing advocacy organization The Shift, talks to host Josh Bloch about the complexities of dealing with encampments, and why she thinks there's an opportunity now to make lasting change to Canada's housing crisis.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Like you can see, like I said, I start pulling down, but this is my little castle. I want you to meet a man named Derek Black. Derek doesn't have a permanent home,

and right now he's living in an encampment in Moss Park in downtown Toronto. He recently gave our producer Ali Janes a tour of the large tent he lives in, or as he calls it, his castle. My castle, I got my bed, which you can see is an air mattress. I'm not on the ground. I have my radio. I have everything. I have my bike.

I have my helmet. I have my cooler. I have juice. I have another tent ready to go. Generator, music, water, and everything cost me. Nobody. Everything I do down here, everything I have down here,

I pay for it. You know, so it would be unfair for the city just to throw away what I work for and all my money I spend to throw it in the garbage. It wouldn't be fair. That's what I'm fighting for. Derek is one of over a dozen residents of encampments across Toronto

who are suing the city for the right to stay in the parks. In mid-July, the city tried to dismantle the Moss Park encampment, but have since postponed any evictions. Officials were worried about safety risks and sanitation, especially given the threat of COVID-19. According to a statement from a city spokesperson, over 150 people who were camped around Moss Park have now been moved into hotels, shelters, or interim housing. But Derek and other residents say they won't leave unless they're given long-term housing. I'm not fighting for any money or anything. The only thing I'm fighting for is for everybody to

have their own keys and I to have my own key. And there are a lot of people out here who are sleeping on the ground, sleeping in the corner, you know, very, very vulnerable. So all I want for them to do, everybody to be free, no police above us, and let's live our life. The Moss Park encampment in Toronto is just one of many across the country. Since the start of the pandemic, they've popped up in Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver, Fredericton, just to name a few. The tent city that was on Port of Vancouver property is now in a much more residential neighbourhood. The camp is taking control of the city of Edmonton. Conviction orders were handed out to those living in two camps at the south end of the Disraeli Freeway.

For many housing advocates, the growth of these encampments really captures the complexities and challenges of the homelessness crisis in Canada. And right now, in the middle of the pandemic, they see an opportunity for lasting change. Today, I'm joined by Leilani Fara to talk about all of this. She's the former UN Rapporteur on the Right to Housing, and the Global Director of The Shift, a housing rights advocacy organization based in Ottawa. I'm Josh Bloch. This is FrontBurner. Hello, Leilani. Hi, Josh. So first of all, there's no national data on how many of these

encampments there are across Canada right now. But even just right here in Toronto, I mean, I went for a run this morning and passed by four different parks where people were sleeping in tents. What do we know about the number of these new encampments across the country? Yeah, well, we don't know the number. There isn't any official body responsible for counting the number of encampments across the country, which is a problem in and of itself. But, you know, most people I'm speaking with, and these are actually city officials who do care a lot more than you might think about this problem. But they're saying we cannot stop the encampments from arising. Every time we try, we'll house some people, but we're not able to house everyone.

And the population just keeps growing. So it's not good news. Tell me more about why we might be seeing an increase in these encampments during the pandemic. So shelters tend to be pretty packed places, right? So in the face of the pandemic, we know that you have to physical distance. So what shelters did rightly was they said, okay, well, we've got to separate out our beds. So you're taking, let's say, a shelter that's got 100 beds,

and you're moving those beds six feet apart. Well, you have limited space. So you may go down from 100 beds to, let's say, 30 beds or 35 beds. So where do those 70 people go? that they are housed somewhere. And also because people living in homelessness feel unsafe in shelters in the midst of this pandemic. They're fearful about contracting the virus and an encampment offers them more space, obviously, and an opportunity to perhaps self-isolate if that's what they want to do or need to do. Well, the concern about catching and spreading COVID was something that Derek Black,

who we heard from in the introduction, expressed to us as well. The reason why I choose to come to Moss Park is because of the covert. And I didn't want to take it from outside to my mom, who's an elderly lady. take it from outside to my mom, who's an elderly lady. So I decided to come out here and build a camp with my girlfriend because of the covert overfeit, Victor 2. A lot of people have it there. So I rather both of us out here and, you know, cool and free and, you know, everything. So that's why we choose here.

Leilani, what does what Derek's saying say about the way the pandemic is affecting the lives of the homeless and the precariously housed? Oh, I mean, people living in homelessness are really having to look after themselves. That's clear. Trying to navigate this, the virus and their own personal realities, which is really tough, right? So he's making tough choices. He's trying to figure out how he can stay as healthy as possible so that he can continue to see his mum, right? Those are tough choices without being provided the supports that he might need

to actually make that true and real and viable. So, for example, the first clip of Derek, he described his living circumstances. I have my coolers, I have juice, I have another tent ready to go. What he doesn't have, and I understand this about Moss Park, is clean running water, access to clean running water. That should be provided by the city. that should be provided by the city. Properly serviced port-o-lets or toilets and sanitation stations should be on site. I mean, if we're serious about ensuring as few people are infected by this virus as possible, that has to include homeless people. And that means where they've set

up an encampment, services have to be provided so that they can protect themselves. So these encampments are springing up across the country. How would you characterize the typical response by city officials? A lot of cities just try to sweep them away, evict the residents, don't engage residents in meaningful consultation. They often engage the encampment, you know, without actually having a solution and a long-term solution for the residents. They don't trust the organizations and everything else for the housing because they figure it's going to be the same thing like last time. They're going to put them in the housing.

They're going to lose all their belongings. And then after that, they get kicked out and put back out on the street. How do you feel when they come along and try and clear you out? Why? I'm not violating nobody. Seclusion, in a sense. I'm an addict, so society says this is where we belong, and so be it. Most people don't just choose to live in an encampment and, you know, if they could afford to live in a decent apartment. That's just a myth. Some people living in homelessness choose not to live in shelters. This is true and would prefer an encampment.

But that's because of the shelter system and the rules and regulations that are really not suitable for people living in homelessness. But in terms of encampments, a lot of cities, basically, their position is to remove the encampment. And that's actually contrary to international human rights law. There is a human rights way to deal with encampments. Oppenheimer Park out in Vancouver, the city of Vancouver did engage in meaningful discussions with the residents and their representatives on several occasions. In London, Ontario, the city government is allowing encampments to stay. They're not trying to evict them, and they've been providing them with basic services. And, you know, that would be a high watermark.

I want to reiterate, none of this is cool in terms of ensuring access to adequate housing for people in a way that's consistent with human rights, right? It's just, it's failing. It is failing. That being said, if people are going to live in encampments, cities really need to make sure that those encampments are as healthy places as possible, right? And that means ensuring basic services, especially in the midst of a pandemic. Well, let's talk a bit more about Moss Park specifically. The city has offered Derek and other residents of the encampment interim housing or places in hotels or shelters. And a City of Toronto spokesperson told us in a statement that since April, they've moved more than 600 people from 43 encampments to safe spaces inside. And they also stress that the move is done with dignity and a plan to support the client's

needs. They say that they have specific outreach staff who do wellness checks with people sleeping outside. But our producer Ali did hear some concerns from people at Moss Park. How secure is that? This is a man named Richard Dixon and a woman who goes by Chili who lived in the park just until recently. I have friends who are 30 year intravenous drug users. They were moved to deep Scarborough, Jane and Finch, where there's no

safe injection sites, there's no resources for my friends. So my friends have to travel to come down here to go inject drugs at the safe injection sites. This is a band-aid. It's traumatic. When people say the most stressful things in life is separations, death, and moving.

You guys move us all the time, eh? Either from this shelter to that shelter. You know what, we've also got to move to go get something to eat. We've also got to move from the fact that, hey, you guys don't want us here in this area right now, so we're going to move over there. We're always moving. Another concern we heard from Richard Dixon is about the temporary nature of these accommodations. I'm coming back to the

park. They put me in the Victoria Hotel. Don't get it twisted. I love it. It's beautiful. It's nice to have your own room key, you know, to go in, you know, your clothes are safe. But the point is missed. You don't just, that's a Band-Aid. That's just a Band-Aid, temporary fix. What happens when that lease is up, when that contract with the government is up? So you're going to take me from homeless to put me into a home to kick me out back on the street? What? That defeats the purpose of what we're doing here. Leilani, these concerns we just heard, you know, worries that some people are being sent to communities they don't know that are far away from resources and that this is just a temporary solution.

How common are they across the country? Yeah, so those are absolutely common complaints and concerns by residents. You know, what's always so amazing to me is that residents are experts in their own lives. And that's so clear. Like, what was just articulated in that clip was, we need to live close to the services that we rely upon. Right? I mean, that's just such a no brainer. And if you really engage with residents in a meaningful way, they will identify in the most modest way. That's my experience. And, you know, I was rapporteur for six years. I've met hundreds and hundreds of people living in homelessness and encampments in

many parts of the world. And my experience is that residents do know what they need. My experience is that residents do know what they need. They often have very modest and viable solutions. And I think that governments need to really listen to residents and take on board their suggestions. Well, we also heard from people who said that, you know, even though they were grateful for the food and the shelter and amenities at hotels, they were frustrated about the lack of autonomy that they had there. Here's one man. His name is Zion. The hotels, it's basically like, I don't know, it's too controlled.

It's like a jail. Like, we're monitored. You can't have people in your room. You can't have your girlfriend over. You've got to be by yourself. You've got to be locked up at 12 o'clock until whenever in the morning. You've got to be there for a bed check. They come in your room whenever they want. That feeling of not feeling free or autonomous that Zion talks about there,

is that something that advocates and government officials consider enough? No, absolutely not. You know, it gets, for me, a lot of this gets to the real heart of the matter. I actually think overall, most of us have discriminatory attitudes toward people living in homelessness, including government officials. I think in this country, there's generally a sense of like, oh, we should provide charity to people living in homelessness, that they're charity cases. They are absolutely not regarded as rights holders, right? So when we're fashioning remedies for homelessness, governments aren't saying enough to themselves, okay, like I have obligations as a government,

anyone exercising government authority has international human rights obligations to implement the right to housing. So that should be the starting point. People living in homelessness are experiencing a prima facie violation of the right to housing. There's no other way to understand homelessness, right? It's obviously just clearly a violation of the right to housing. And so they are rights holders. I have obligations as a government official. I better do something to ensure they have access to adequate housing. And that whole train of thought is not happening. I mean, it sounds like this question of not just housing, but housing with dignity is something that might not be considered. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, that's probably right. And was it Zion who said this issue of autonomy, personal autonomy, that homeless people are subjects of their own lives, that they should have a say in how their future looks, in how they emerge from this pandemic. We shouldn't compromise our values. We shouldn't compromise our humanity and our dignity.

And it shouldn't be compared to, well, at least you have, at least you have this. It shouldn't be compared to, well, at least you have. At least you have this. It shouldn't be compared to the worst of minimum. It's like a jail thing because you have to turn off light whenever they want. You know, certain things require, a lot of things require. A lot of people don't want to be told what to do. You know, they're free out here, so that's why they choose to be out here. Home is still a home, even if nobody inside. So this is theirs, and this is mine, and that's what I want.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix.

I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, Now, some people might say, well, look, you know, right now we are in this crisis situation. You know, cities need to secure safe accommodation quickly for a lot of people. And that it is necessary to put people in, to provide people with, you know, safe sanitation, beds, running water.

And even if it is a Band-Aid solution, isn't that the right thing for cities to be doing right now? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good question. And I have some sympathy for that, for sure, especially early on, like in March, when, you know, middle of March, this is hitting, early on, like in March, when, you know, middle of March, this is hitting, slamming Canada, right? And city governments were scrambling. They realized what a stay-at-home policy might mean for people living in homelessness, right? That they realized. And I think they were kind of left on their own. I think there was a lack of national level federal government leadership. a lack of national level federal government leadership. I would have expected a directive from the prime minister himself, to be honest, saying very clearly, provinces, cities, we absolutely have to protect our homeless population. We have to do something, you know,

quickly, rights oriented, you know, etc. I mean, the federal government has recognized housing is a fundamental human right. So I would have expected that kind of leadership, and that just wasn't forthcoming. Well, I want to ask you about federal leadership. I mean, to what extent do these encampments that we're seeing right now lay bare Canada's failure to address the housing

crisis prior to COVID-19. Yeah, of course. And it's the failure of the government to, the national level government, to recognize and implement housing as a human right. You can't allow homelessness to unfold to the extent that it has in Canada. I mean, the conservative estimates are 235,000 homeless people. And that's a stubborn number. That's not a number that's come down in Canada. And in some places, homelessness has increased. So absolutely, there's been a failure. The government has recognized its failure, however.

I mean, they adopted a National Housing Strategy Act last year, and that act recognizes housing as a fundamental human right. They are supposed to appoint a federal housing advocate and a housing council. And those two new mechanisms, I'll call them, could play a really significant role in ensuring that the country does better in terms of implementing the right to housing and addressing homelessness. You have written about how the Canadian government has a big opportunity now to address the homelessness crisis in Canada. Can you give me, in a concrete sense,

how do you want to see the Canadian government at all levels work on addressing this issue now? One of the things that all levels of government should be looking at is what we might call distressed assets or available assets. They don't have to be distressed. So, for example, Airbnb units that are standing idle and vacant because of lack of tourism now, as well as assets that are failing. shopping malls, parking lots. There's lots of possibilities and use those to address the housing crisis and making them available to those in need. Is that something that has actually been tried anywhere? Absolutely. In fact, just recently, both the cities of Lisbon and Barcelona have made moves in that direction. City of Barcelona Mayor Calau has said quite clearly that any unit that has been unoccupied for a year or more will be expropriated by the city and will be used for affordable housing. And I think that's really interesting. I mean,

it's a stick. In Lisbon, they're using a carrot approach with short-term rentals, not just Airbnb, but all short-term rentals. They're trying to negotiate with the owners of those units to get them to lease them on a long-term basis and at affordable rates. But, you know, if you look around the world, homelessness is growing in most countries, but there is one leading light and that's Finland. The Finnish system is financed by public funds and Finnish slot machines. And the idea of housing first is quite simple. When people are homeless, you give them housing first. A home right away instead of lots of paperwork and temporary accommodation. The only country in the world that has really reduced

homelessness and is on track for ending it by 2027, I think. So in Finland, they realized, for example, social assistance rates were too low. And that was part of what was causing homelessness. People were falling into arrears and self-evicting and then falling into homelessness. And that's something that the federal government has some control over, right? We're seeing in the middle of the pandemic how much money is available when we need it to be available. So that's part of it. So, that's part of it. Just thinking about what you've been saying, clearly these encampments are a symptom of a much larger problem across this country.

What happens if there aren't deliberate steps taken to try and address this issue in a way that you're talking about? Well, I mean, we already have a housing crisis and we had one before the pandemic. I'm quite fearful about what's to come. I'm worried about current tenants who have negotiated with landlords to pay their rent back. You know, they can't pay their full rent now, but they'll pay it back over time. I'm worried that people won't be able to do that and they will then face eviction. And all of this will just lend itself to increasing levels of homelessness, of course. But what equally concerns me is the federal government needs to recognize the connections between things and ensure that they are paying attention to the big financial actors

who have liquidity now, who are not suffering, who have deep pockets, and who could really mess with our housing market unless they're regulated properly. And that's what we saw happen after the 08-09 global financial crisis or Great Recession, as it's called. And so I'm really terrified that the government won't take the necessary action. And I think there's just not a good news story at the end of all of this if all of these different pockets and groups of people and their housing needs aren't addressed. Leilani, thank you so much for speaking with me today. It's a pleasure. We reached out to the federal government departments that oversee housing to respond to the issues that Leilani raised. A spokesperson for Ahmed Hassan, the federal minister of families, children, and social development,

got back to us with a statement. It says that the federal government provided an additional $157.5 million in funding to organizations supporting people living in homelessness during the pandemic. The funding covers expenses like PPE and renting more spaces to house people. It also mentions that the government is working on establishing a federal housing advocate's office at the Canadian Human Rights Commission. The job will involve monitoring the outcomes of the national housing strategy, something that Leilani mentioned in our conversation. Finally, the spokesperson added that, quote, we recognize that there's more to do. We're ensuring

that the government will play its role as a full partner in ensuring every Canadian has a place to call home. That's all for today. I'm Josh Bloch. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.