Front Burner - How Thunder Bay police fail Indigenous people

Episode Date: December 14, 2018

"When the agency that's supposed to protect you is also an agency that you fear, there is really little place for you to find shelter," says Jorge Barrera, a reporter with CBC's Indigenous Unit, in relation to a disturbing new report about the Thunder Bay Police Service. Ontario's police watchdog Gerry McNeilly says "systemic racism" exists at an institutional level inside the police force. And the consequences of this racism are so severe that he's recommending nine cases involving the deaths of Indigenous people be re-opened and re-investigated. Today on Front Burner, we look at how Thunder Bay Police failed Indigenous people.

My name is Graham Isidor. I have a progressive eye disease called keratoconus. Unmaying I'm losing my vision has been hard, but explaining it to other people has been harder. Lately, I've been trying to talk about it. Short Sighted is an attempt to explain what vision loss feels like by exploring how it sounds. By sharing my story, we get into all the things you don't see

about hidden disabilities. Short Sighted, from CBC's Personally, available now. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Jethro Anderson, Curran Strang, Kyle Morisot, Jordan Wabas. These teenagers are among Thunder Bay's seven fallen feathers. Seven young people from remote communities who came to the northern Ontario city to go to high school. None of them live long enough to graduate.

This week, Ontario's police watchdog recommended that these cases be reinvestigated, along with at least five other deaths of Indigenous people. The recommendation, it came as part of a scathing review of Thunder Bay's police force. They failed on an unacceptably high number of occasions to treat or protect the deceased equally and without discrimination because the deceased was Indigenous. The report says systemic racism exists throughout the force,

but stories of abuse and intolerance, they're no surprise to local Indigenous people, many of whom have been calling for help for years. To me, it almost felt like they didn't want to deal with it. It's almost like, OK, she just froze. I'm hurt, frustrated. I want to know. Today, I'm talking to a colleague who has been covering these cases for a long time about how Thunder Bay police have failed Indigenous people.

People have fear in this city. They talk about looking over their shoulders. You know, they hear about human trafficking. They hear about gangs. So that fear is real. That's today on Frontburner. My name is Jorge Barrera. I'm a reporter with CBC's Indigenous Unit, and I'm in Thunder Bay. I'd like to start with the review's findings. What are some of the biggest takeaways for you? Well, this report, so many takeaways.

I mean, it's a really devastating report. I think the biggest thing that came out of this is the reopening of the nine cases. You know, these are deaths that, for the families of the victims, are deaths that are still real, are still open for them, because they have so many unanswered questions. And reopening these cases for them who live with you know this loss every day brings up mixed emotions for them. The mother can come to Thunder Bay. She gets panic attacks like she hyperventilates. She has to be on medication just to come into this city because this city represents death and fear and hate. But I spoke to one family member about this very issue and they said, you know, if this thing is done right and if it's done properly, then no matter if the answers to

our unanswered questions are what we expect or want, that will bring closure because what really hurts is just not knowing. So I think that's, you know, the biggest thing about this, the biggest immediate impact. The other findings of this report into Thunder Bay Police and these allegations of systemic racism was that it found that there was systemic racism at the institutional level, but that racism also extended all the way down to the frontline officers. The fact remains that investigations were too often handled differently because the deceased was Indigenous. And there's some striking excerpts from interviews with officers,

including the report and and you know the police watchdog said that you know these attitudes were not just a few bad apples it was more than that and that they bordered on hostility. Can you tell me about some of those excerpts? Yeah there is one officer that was interviewed that said how he thought all reserves should be abolished and why do they have to be different. Another one talked about how he goes to one neighbourhood and he talks about seeing their kids hanging out, hanging from trees like monkeys.

Another officer openly admitted that, yep, after decades of policing, I am biased after all I've seen. So, you know, that's shocking to hear that these officers who, who are working in a city of a hundred thousand and has a population of about 15,000 that are Indigenous have these stated and pretty blunt views that they're not afraid to share about Indigenous peoples. that they're not afraid to share about Indigenous peoples. And, you know, it says, you know, a lot about what Indigenous people have been saying in the city for a long, long time. And this is not just about death investigations, right?

This is about the daily interactions with police. I recommend that Thunder Bay Police Service leadership publicly and formally acknowledged that racism exists at all levels within the police service and that it will not tolerate racist views or actions. Jorge, can you paint a picture for me of what life is like for Indigenous people in Thunder Bay? Well, one thing we have to understand is that Thunder Bay is the service center for, you know, about 49 Northern First Nations communities. I mean, there's two main service centers in Northern Ontario, and there's Sioux Lookout and Thunder Bay. And in these communities,

there's not a lot of services. If you need to go for health checkups, if you need to go for counseling, if you need to buy a car part, all these things have to be done in Thunder Bay. And if you, you know, the biggest thing is if you want to go to high school, you have to go to Thunder Bay or Sioux Lookout to get an education. So people have to go into the city and when you go into a city that you believe that there is already a pre-existing hostility, people have fear in this city. I mean I've spoken to youth who attend the high school for First Nations students here and they talk about fear in the city. They talk about looking over their shoulders. They talk about their fears on the bus, on the city bus. You know, they hear the stories. They hear about human trafficking. They hear about gangs. So that fear is real. And when the agency that's supposed to protect you is also an agency that you fear, there's really little place for you to find shelter in many ways. I mean, that's been this way for decades. I know Thunder Bay has the highest preponderance of reported hate crimes against indigenous

people in the country. Yeah, I mean, you have cases of people throwing stuff at people just because they're indigenous. at people just because they're Indigenous. I mean, the biggest one is the Barbara Kentner case where she was hit by a trailer hitch from a moving car, right? Now there's someone who's been charged in connection to that and they're going into trial. That's reality. I was at a vigil like about three weeks ago

for a woman named Ashley McKay who was murdered, and there's three people charged in connection with her death. And there was a preacher in her message. She actually said, you know, even if the city doesn't care, like the idea that Thunder Bay doesn't care as a city about you is something that is part of, you know, the fibers of how people feel about this place. Not that there isn't good people,

or there isn't strong community, but it's more than an undercurrent. The river system in Thunder Bay, I understand it has the name the River of Tears. And can you elaborate on that for me? Yes, there is one stretch of water known as the McIntyre River. That's the river that's called by some, I mean, it's actually a somewhat controversial issue here in the city. Not everybody agrees with the name, but it, you know, called the River of Tears because that, you know, that's the place where Stacey DeBunkey was found, where there's been a lot of deaths. So can you tell me about Stacey DeBunkey? I know that people have been talking for years about a fractured relationship between the police and Indigenous people in Thunder Bay. But this one case, the case of Stacey DeBungie, is what sparked this report.

So Stacey DeBungie from Rainy River First Nation was pulled from the McIntyre, also called the Neibin McIntyre floodway. He was pulled from the waterway in October of 2015 and Thunder Bay police issued a press release before they even received the autopsy results saying that there was no foul play suspected in the death. Brad DeBungie never believed what police told him that his brother Stacy drowned here on Thunder Bay's McIntyre River after passing out on the riverbank. I was up against a brick wall and they wouldn't answer my questions and this and that.

Everybody just being put aside like lives don't matter or whatnot because they're Indians and Native people and this and that. So the First Nation hired a lawyer and they got a private investigator to review the case and they found some serious problems with the way the police handled the case. And so the family really pushed to have this case reviewed and they took it to the Ontario's independent police watchdog the OIPRD and and they you know the the review is what triggered this whole

thing and and the OIPRD's review on the Bungie case was released earlier this year and it found that there was neglect of duty on the part of Thunder Bay police in dealing with in investigating this case. An independent review has now backed up the findings of a 2016 private investigation saying there was no basis to affirmatively rule out foul play and that investigators premature conclusion may have been drawn because the deceased was Indigenous. And so that that community the leadership there and the Bungies family, you know, they played the pivotal role bringing all of this to light, in my opinion.

And I know of those 37 cases that the Office of the Independent Police Review Director reviewed for this report, nine of them, they're recommending reinvestigation or reopening these cases. We talked about four of them at the beginning of the show, four young people who are part of the Seven Fallen Feathers.

There's also the case of Christina Gleidi that is being recommended for reinvestigation. Can you tell me about how Christina's death was investigated? Well, this is a case that I've been working on for a couple of years. It's one of those stories as a journalist that just sort of sticks with you. Christina was a mother. She was 28 and she was found basically clinging to life on the gravel by a train bridge that crosses the McIntyre River on March 29, 2016. And she died in hospital. And the Thunder Bay Police concluded that it was just a case of accidental hypothermia.

When she was found on her jacket, in a t-shirt with two layers of pajama pants, and in her sock feet, one boot was nearby, the other boot was beneath the bridge her toque was was lying next to her as well her jacket was wet you know they found an open can of cranberry ginger ale in one pocket a spoon and a slip of paper which was a clothing request form for a local shelter in the other pocket she had no other ID except for that piece of paper that said, in handwritten, Chris Glee. And police actually talked to a man who actually came forward

and said he was with Christina on her last night on Earth, basically. And he said that they had intercourse and they were looking at the stars and when he left, she stayed back on the bridge. She was just sitting on the tracks, just like looking up at the stars. But he said as he left her, he saw people walking towards her. Now, Thunder Bay Police, you know, the interrogation of this individual was critiqued by this report. They said that it was, they didn't really try to probe anything, that even though there was red flags in the interrogation, because the individual volunteered that he did not have an argument with Christina that night. And that he just came to police to

quote clear his name the thing is is that this individual's DNA was in an offenders registry and given what he said had transpired that night they would have had his DNA and they would have been able to run it and find that out but that was never done they also were told that there may have been a third person with them that night as well and that lead was never followed up. On top of that there was some fresh bruising on her body that was never really you know looked at it closely but her family has always believed that there was something more we her I spoke with her mom I took

I went with her mom to the spot where where she was found a couple years ago and her mom was was staying at one of the shelters she's had a difficult life she does drift in and out of shelters. I saw her yesterday. She was actually in the hospital when the press conference was held. She just had her foot amputated because of an infection, but she was smiling about the fact that the case was, was going to be reopened. And she said, you know, I just want want to know the truth it shouldn't just be left like that and I spoken with her sister who lives in a in a northern First Nation Kingfisher Lake First Nation she's been pushing you know to have this this case reviewed spoke with another sister who

lives in Winnipeg Thea and she says that she's heard rumors from Thunder Bay that there's more to this story than the Thunder Bay police concluded. Now that's been like a couple years past, now people are talking. The truth is starting to come out. Do you think the case should be reopened? Yes. I think so. Would you trust the Thunder Bay police to investigate it? I'm not too sure about that. And they're

finding solace and they're finding renewed hope in this report and this calling for a reopening of that case that the family is still carrying because of these unanswered questions. It took our heart away. Like my little sister, I just have to keep on, like with my daily life, I pray. I pray to God that somebody will speak up and say something.

Jorge, we've talked about some of what the report has found around officers' attitudes. Yes. And we've also talked about some specific findings around police work. So police not interviewing or following up with witnesses or persons of interest, a poor collection and management of evidence. Is there anything else that the report found when it came to the behavior of the police that you think is important to note here? I think the one thing that really, you know, jumped out at me was some of the excerpts from those interviews with the police officers.

That's one. And, you know, the basic finding that it's like Indigenous victims and their families, and this says it in this report, were treated differently because they were Indigenous. They were discriminated against because they're Indigenous. Can we talk about the police response to this report? How have the police responded to the review? Well, it was interesting. So right after, so the Thunder Bay Police got this report 24 hours in advance my understanding that's my understanding and so the the Thunder Bay Police Chief issued a statement like right shortly after the public

release and in the statement there was no mention of racism it only used the term systemic barriers racism. It only used the term systemic barriers. The Thunder Bay Police then basically updated their statement and in scrums with reporters that the police chief actually said systemic barriers and racism and that they're going to take time to review this report. I have acknowledged and will continue to do so that barriers do exist within the police. No, I'm, let me talk. There are barriers within the policing service, but also systemic racism, yes. And this is something that is dear to me. And it's not something that, thanks for the report,

we're done. It's something that is very important that we need to analyze, look at and say, all right, here's what we've done so far. How do we keep going? What does that look like? And what about the police board, the police board that oversees the police service? How are they responding to this? Well, there is a report coming out that was led by Senator Murray Sinclair. That's supposed to be coming out on Friday. And bits of that report have already have already leaked out my like my colleague Karen Pauls is reporting on it and his Sinclair's findings you know say that this this police services board is disengaged from the from the actions of the Thunder Bay police it's to call for basically removing the board

and having an administrator in place for the interim until things can get sorted out with this board. I mean, it's a pretty scathing indictment of the way that this police board has acted. And over the years, like this police board has been one of the strongest defenders of the Thunder Bay police in the face of constant, constant criticism and persistent allegations of systemic racism that in this report are proven. What about the mayor or other levels of government? How have they reacted to this report? So there's a new Thunder Bay mayor, Bill Morrow, who took over from Mayor Keith Hobbs. And Keith Hobbs, who's a former longtime Thunder Bay police officer, is facing extortion charges. And that's going to trial. But the new mayor, Bill Morrow, is saying Thunder Bay has problems, but they're not any different than any other community. And he's quoted in the local press today saying that people should remain cautious

and quote to take a little bit more time here, step back, review the report. Hopefully those families will see this as the beginning point of some change that may result from the recommendations of this report. From this point forward, we just need to just take a pause for a moment, allow the Chief an opportunity to do her work. I do understand that Mr. McNeely has drawn some very serious conclusions and made some very serious recommendations. I mean, that's a far cry from what, you know, the report was calling for, which was a complete acknowledgement that there are issues. Here's another quote in the local media. I know from time to time when I say that there are people who are not happy when I say it's true, we have our issues, but it's true

that all communities have similar issues. So there's this still, this argument that, hey, There's this still, this argument that, hey, things in Thunder Bay, there are issues, but we're no different than any place else. But it is different here. Because of Thunder Bay's population that they have, in proportion to the problems that it has and faces and the repeated and constant and historical evidence of bias policing, of racism, there is something different about Thunder Bay. Can we talk a little bit about some of the other recommendations in this report? So we've talked today about the main recommendation of reopening these nine sudden death cases.

What about some other recommendations that have come from this massive review? I mean, one of the important things about the reopening of the cases is that they want a multidisciplinary team, a unit to investigate these cases. And then none of the officers who were involved in the original cases can be part of these investigations. And they've also said that they have a man, they should have a mandate to look at all cases and determine whether more need to be reviewed. Some of the other recommendations, you know, include things like having police officers wear name tags and body cams, increased anti-racism training and psychological screening, better coordination and communication between

pathologists, coroners, and investigative officers because there was a constant breakdown in the communication between these different practices and their different duties and what and the information from one didn't always get to the other. They also called on the Thunder Bay Police to actually establish a major crimes unit which it didn't have and to beef up its staffing of its units that deal with these types of cases. Is there a sense in Thunder Bay right now that any of this will get done?

That's a good question. Yes, there is a belief that, and this is part of the messaging that's coming, that this is a new beginning, right? The mayor is saying that, the police chief was saying that, and I think that people want something to happen, to change, and I think that they're going to hold the authorities to that change. I mean there's already talk about creating support groups for families of the victims whose cases are going to be reopened so they can have legal representation and monitor. You know this thing is getting national attention. The provincial government has to also keep an eye on this and they have a responsibility to this as well. The federal ministers have also expressed that they're aware of what's going on.

We are dealing with racism in many other institutions, not just policing. This is something that we need to name and deal with as a country. So there's a lot of layers of power that do have varying degrees of responsibility to ensure that what is called for in this report happens because it has to happen. It's been called a crisis. It's been called an emergency. And these are real lives.

These are real people. This is a place where colonialism is still an open wound. Jorge, thank you so much. Thank you. Earlier this week, the body of another Indigenous teen, Brayden Jacob, was found in a park in Thunder Bay. The 17-year-old from Wabukay First Nation was in the city to get medical help, his family said.

That's all for today. FrontBurner comes to you from CBC News and CBC Podcasts. The show is produced by Chris Berube, Elaine Chao, and Shannon Higgins, with help from Alina Ghosh and Robert Parker. Derek Vanderwyk does our sound design. Our music is by Joseph Chabison of Boombox Sound. The executive producer of FrontBurner is Nick McKay-Blocos. And I'm your host, Jamie Poisson.

Thanks for listening. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog. She names it Gay Girl in Damascus. Am I crazy? Maybe. As her profile grows, so does the danger. The object of the email was, please read this while sitting down.

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