Front Burner - 'I don't know if I can do this again,' says Everest climber as death toll hits 11

Episode Date: May 29, 2019

Elia Saikaly has climbed Mount Everest eight times. He's reached the top three times. But after his most recent climb, Saikaly is wondering if he can ever go back again. He was one of many climbers caught in the 'traffic jam' at more than 8000 meters elevation - and the deaths he saw along the way made him ask himself if the suffering is worth it. Today on Front Burner, Ottawa-based filmmaker Elia Saikaly on his latest Everest climb and what he thinks can be done to prevent more deaths.

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Uncover bomb on board. Investigating the biggest unsolved mass murder in Canada. CP Flight 21. Get the Uncover podcast for free on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts. Available now. Hello, I'm Jamie Poisson. Maybe you've seen the same picture I have. Dozens of people wearing bright red and orange gear in a long snaking line

on the summit of Earth's highest peak, Mount Everest. The climbing season only started a few weeks ago, but already 11 people have died. Last week's tragic events pushed the total number of known deaths on Mount Everest past 300. I think maybe there should be a limit on how many people go up each day. It has become a death trace there. You will see this just increases the people who come next year to want to try the same. Today on FrontBurner, the story of one climber in the crowd. What he witnessed and what he thinks could be done to prevent more deaths.

So the beginning of that day actually begins at 9.30 p.m. the night before. So you've got a headlamp on your head. It's 8,000 meters above sea level. You're breathing supplemental oxygen. It's minus 30 degrees outside. And the minute that you step out of your tent and you look up at the summit, what you see are dozens and dozens and dozens of headlamps all heading up towards the top of the world. So this is Elias Akali. He's an Ottawa-based climber and documentary filmmaker. He's made the trip to Everest eight times now and was there last week.

He told me about his team's final push to the summit. So that's the very first thing that I saw when I stepped outside the tent. And what did you think when you saw all those dozens of headlamps? Oh boy. There were certainly signs, you know, we knew that over 250 people had departed for the summit the night before. And, you know, we're working with an expedition company. They're very conscious and very responsible in their approach. And they were very aware of who was moving when, and they positioned our commercial team. And just for some context, I was filming a documentary on four Arab women from Oman, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon.

I was a little emotional on the plane because it hit me that it's actually happening. And so they were very conscious of who was moving up the mountain. conscious of, you know, who was moving up the mountain. And they positioned us on the day that was going to be slightly less busy, where the weather window itself was going to be, you know, a little more safe, a little more comfortable for everybody and less windy. And what is that journey like for you when you start that climb? I'll be honest with you, it was very alarming. You know, the minute that our Sherpa team, and of course they know this mountain better than anybody. As soon as they saw those very long lineups, they kind of panicked and they moved our team very quickly out of camp. So, you know, I actually had to stop myself, you know, about 15 minutes in. And actually, you know, there's this self-talk going on saying, okay, you know, get it together.

Because we just left so quickly because we didn't want to get caught in those very long lineups. So it's not the best way to start your summit climb, obviously, but that's how it began. Okay. And then when you actually start the climb to the summit, what kind of things are you seeing? You're in the dark, you've got a headlamp on your head, so you're not seeing a whole lot. Everybody clips into the safety lines. Everybody uses those fixed lines. You've got something called an ascender, a Jumar, that essentially you clip into that fixed line and then you're part of the lineup. So, you know, once we sort of got going, immediately a climber was being brought down by two Sherpas. And at first we weren't sure what was going on. And I later learned that that was a deceased climber you know that

person had lost their life and i mean this is 20 minutes into the final climb right so very alarming you know within you know 45 minutes or so you know we're sort of chugging up that fixed line. You're climbing towards, you know, what they call the balcony. And there was another climber that was being carried down. And, you know, you hear these stories about people whose brains are starved of oxygen and they start behaving very strangely. And so this person was yelling and sort of screaming and laughing. And I can handle a lot. I've seen a lot.

Unfortunately, you know, I've seen things I can't unsee. And I was more concerned, honestly, with my team than I was for myself because, you know, most people don't have the tools to deal with seeing the unseeable. And at this time, what's happening with your team? What are they saying? You know, there's not a lot of communication going on because you've got an oxygen mask on your face, right? You know, you're kind of sounding like this and you're a bit of a Darth Vader, you know, sort of in your conversation. So unless you pull that mask off and you stop the line, it's very difficult to have a conversation. But through observation, we had an incredibly

strong team. You know, this team of Arab women were very well trained and they all had amazing Sherpa support. They all had maximum oxygen. So they were strong and we were passing people. And we probably passed 40 to 60 people that night, you know, heading up towards the summit, if not more. And they were incredibly capable. And it just kind of blew my mind, to be honest with you. What else are you encountering on your way to the summit? Within three hours or so, maybe a little bit less of leaving Camp 4. You know, the most difficult thing that I saw was the deceased

climber that was attached to the safety line. And it, it was, it was very disturbing. It was very disturbing. You know, there was no way of knowing what had happened exactly. You just kind of put the pieces together and, you know, this person was upside down, um, you know, sort of head down towards camp four. Uh, you know, somebody had obviously secured them to the anchor. So the body didn't, you know, slide down the mountain and you don't want to get off that line because if you fall, you're probably going to die. So anybody who had the ambition of heading up towards the summit had to, had to step over that, that, that human being. So it's, you know, and, and you're, you just,

your mind is not functioning properly. You're not able to process information the way you do at sea level when you're well oxygenated. So it was very confusing. Everything was happening very quickly. And, and unfortunately we had no choice, but to keep moving. Do you know now who that person is? I don't know who that person is, no. And currently, you know, there are reports of 11, you know, deceased climbers on Mount Everest. British climber Robin Fisher died yesterday from what appeared to be altitude sickness. Supposedly, this is how it would work. Utah climber Don Cash also died during descent. The last message that he sent to me personally, I love this.

He said, I feel so blessed to be on the mountain that I read about for the last 40 years. You know, my fear is that that number is going to rise as more information comes out. But at the time, there was absolutely no way of knowing. And just, you know, again, for context, you got to get out of there. Your body is dying above 8,000 meters, and you need to just get down as quick as possible. And, of course, you have so many questions. But everybody's wearing oxygen masks, and like you said, they're in red and orange and yellow suits. So it's very hard to tell who the team members are or who you should talk to.

And people are just trying to survive up there. So once you get up to the top, what was it like this time around? So there are a couple of sort of iconic positions on Everest. The first one is called the Balcony. The second sort of iconic position is what's called the South Summit. And once you reach the South Summit, then you're on the final ridge that leads to the summit itself. And once we reached the South Summit, I mean, it was spectacular. Like it was a scene literally sort of right out of a fantasy film where the sky opened up,

the sun started to rise and burn away the clouds and the mist started to disappear and there were pink hues and blue colors. And it was exhilarating at that point, to be honest with you. It was a little harrowing because, you know, Hillary step, people are sandwiched together like sardines in a can. And there's one safety line. And if the person at the front of that line is tired or exhausted and moving slowly, there's not a whole lot you can do. And it's sort of one of those positions where it becomes a bottleneck. And there's not a whole lot you can do. You just got to make sure sort of one of those positions where it becomes a bottleneck and, um, there's, there's not a whole lot you can do. You just got to make sure that you don't freeze, that you don't get frostbite and you're, you're really relying on the person

ahead of you to sort of do the work and get themselves beyond that position so that you can actually get to the top of the mountain. And at the top of the mountain, are there a lot of people there? There are a ton of people there. Um, but you know, I remember this moment, one of our ladies named Nellie from Lebanon who lives in Saudi Arabia. I remember, you know, she sort of pulls her mask off and I'm always at the front because I'm the cameraman. And she said to me, she said, Elia, how far is the summit? And I sort of laughed and I pulled, you know, I pulled my own mask off and I said, Nellie, do you not see like the 60 people there in colored outfits and down suits, you know, standing on top? That's the summit. And so it's like we were there before we knew it.

And it was pretty amazing to see all of them reach the top of the world ahead of most people. Right, right. Right. I understand that among those who have died on the mountain this year are actually some Sherpas, some of the local guides. Yeah. There was a Sherpa that was a friend of two of our women from Saudi Arabia in Lebanon. And it was terrible. You know, he, he, he, he fell. We watched the helicopter fly in at 7,000 meters above sea level and airlift him out by long line. And, you know, I've seen that before and, and, and you never get used to it. It's incredibly

difficult, but for somebody who has never seen that before, you know, you're seeing a lifeless body hang a thousand, 2000 feet above you by helicopter. It was devastating. You know, like those guys have a hard enough time as it is. And immediately, you know, you just, there's just so much empathy and sadness and you think about their children and their, and their, you know, the wife, what are they going to do? And, you know, it wife, what are they going to do? And, you know, it was a very difficult moment.

Right. I have to say, I lived in Nepal for a couple of months, a few years back. It is an incredibly magical place to be. And I met many local guide Sherpas who do this for a living at great risk to themselves. And often the Sherpas that do this are the primary breadwinners for their families. That's right. Yeah. And, you know, I always say to people, I love the mountains.

I love Nepal. But, you know, what keeps me going back, and I've been there 15 times or so at this point, the people are what keep me going back. Everest is a goddess. Everest is a mother of worlds. Please keep it, keep mountain is clean. I love the mountain. World people must love mountain. I want to talk to you now about the issues that have been raised around just the sheer number of people that are climbing Everest and what may have happened in the last week. But first, do you think that the local Sherpas are being put in danger here?

It's a great question. When we look at our Sherpa team, as an example, our Sherpa team, we had over 28 Sherpas on the team, and they were responsible for actually fixing the lines to the summit. It's an important job. They take a lot of pride in this. And the company that I chose to go with and that our team chose to go with, we made that decision because they're responsible, they're ethical, and we know that they take very good care of their Sherpa team. And I always tell people, if you're paying $35,000 as opposed to $65,000, I mean, what do you think is happening?

I mean, people are obviously getting underpaid. Things are far less organized. The quality of service is lower. The standard of food is lower, tense organization, et cetera. And that trickles right down to the Sherpas, to the people that make all this happen who are the true heroes. And I just encourage people, really think that through, right? Because you saving a little bit of money is jeopardizing your own life. It's jeopardizing your own safety, the safety of your team members,

and the safety of the people that live in this country that make all this happen in the first place. And what would you say some of the other issues are that would have caused or would have contributed to all these deaths that we've been seeing? So what I'm observing is that, you know, there's a blame game going on. And obviously, you know, the lineups, the traffic jams, whatever you want to call it, are being blamed for everything that's gone on. And the reason I don't agree is obviously, first of all, there's a problem. There are definitely too many climbers. So, you know, I do believe that, you know, the

government of Nepal should cap the number of permits that they issue. Nepal has rejected calls to limit the number of climbers, issuing a record 381 Everest permits to foreign climbers this season. There's too many people up there, which obviously needs to be addressed. And then they get stuck in a queue, and then if they have, like, a bad risk management. You only have a limited supply of oxygen, and if you're tired, you're tired. I think a large part of the problem is the lack of experience. It's people that are not taking summiting Everest seriously enough.

You know, as we were climbing to Camp 4, climbers were just out of shape. Climbers were exhausted. Climbers did not have enough supplemental oxygen. Climbers did not have enough Sherpa support. But a large part of it comes down to the inexperience level. And you saw that just in the mere fact that most people were too tired or incapable of even passing other climbers. And that comes down to experience. It comes down to leadership, the guides, the Sherpas, and the climbers themselves. So I think, you know, once that's addressed, I think that that is going to resolve a lot of the issues here, coupled with, you know, what you mentioned earlier about choosing more responsible companies and not trying to save some money going with the wrong team.

Nepalese officials told the Washington Post it's not as much about the number of permits as it is about the kinds of climbers getting them. They say they'll decide how to move forward after this year's expeditions are done. How do you think that could actually be addressed realistically? I think through the limiting of permits, through having a prerequisite of having climbed an 8,000-meter mountain before attempting Everest, and actually enforcing that law and that rule. And I'll tell you, year after year, if you pay attention, the Nepal government does make up these new rules and these new laws. The problem is that they're not enforced. I mean, would it be fair for me to say that the incentives to do this are probably not super high?

The government gets $11,000 per permit. You know, Everest looms large over this country. It certainly drives a lot of dollars into the economy, much needed after this country was devastated by an earthquake just a few years ago. The powerful 7.9 magnitude earthquake struck just before noon local time. Damage has been described as massive and widespread, with reports of roads destroyed, houses collapsed and centuries-old temples levelled. Yeah, I mean, Nepal needs the tourism, absolutely. I don't know what would happen to the Khumbu region of Nepal

or the Annapurna region of Nepal and, you know, all of the business owners and people that rely on industry in order to, you know, feed their families and put their kids through school. After all you've been through, after everything you've seen, will you do it again? It's an interesting question. I'm not sure. I was really turned off this year. It broke my heart, you know, seeing the loss of life up there. And, you know, you ask yourself, okay, you know, here we are, we're trying to do something incredibly positive. We have these four women, we're making this film,

but are we contributing to the problem by being there? And so, you know, my answer to myself was, I mean, I guess I am. I don't know. You know, I was climbing up there. And so, you know, my, my answer to myself was, I mean, I guess I am, I don't know, you know, I was climbing up there and I just, uh, I kind of quit after the earthquake, you know, in 2015 and said, you know, I'd probably never climb again. And then I came across this incredible project and I thought, okay, this is, this is worth it. Um, but when I was up there, I just thought, I, I don't know if I could do this again. Aliyah, thank you so much for this conversation. My pleasure.

So yesterday, I mentioned that a group of international politicians were gathering in Ottawa this week to discuss the role big tech plays in infringing on privacy and undermining democracy. One exchange really stood out from those hearings on Tuesday. It was about a video of U.S. Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi doctored to make it seem like she's drunk and unwell. Facebook wouldn't take it down, but it did make the video appear less often. Conservative MP Peter Kent asked about it because he wanted to know how Facebook might deal

with fake videos in the lead-up to the Canadian election. Here's his exchange with Facebook's representative in Canada, Kevin Chan. It's false. It's not the truth. Does Facebook still defend the concept that it doesn't have to be truthful to be on your platform? Well, sir, I understand where you're getting at. I do think that if you'll permit me,

the way I would like to maybe talk about it a bit... Yes or no would work. Yes or no would work. That's why we're here. We would welcome basics, safe... So this is a learning experience for you? To welcome basics... Mr. Kent. Basic, safe... That's it for today.

I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks for listening to FrontBurner. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts. It's 2011 and the Arab Spring is raging. A lesbian activist in Syria starts a blog. She names it Gay Girl in Damascus. Am I crazy? Maybe. As her profile grows, so does the danger.

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