Front Burner - In Brief: How does COVID-19 affect kids?

Episode Date: May 5, 2020

As the world continues to socially distance - a few countries are easing restrictions for children. But, it’s still unclear how COVID-19 affects kids. Some doctors are raising concern over a mysterious illness in a small number of children, which could be linked to COVID-19. Meanwhile, public health experts in Australia say kids may not be superspreaders after all.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hey everybody, Jamie here. This is FrontBurner, our nighttime edition in brief. Hey everybody, Jamie here. This is FrontBurner, our nighttime edition in brief. Starting on Monday, many elementary and preschools in Quebec are slated to reopen, with the greater Montreal region following the week after that. Quebec is the first province in Canada to make this move, although it's worth noting there are going to be some rules around it,

including a max of 15 students in classrooms. There are still a ton of questions around how COVID-19 affects children, but this week some new studies popped up. One deals with just how contagious children are, the other with a mysterious and perhaps related illness some kids are developing. Infectious disease specialist Dr. Isaac Bogosh will be here to talk about what we can learn from this new information. But first, some headlines to get you caught up. French doctors say new evidence shows the coronavirus may have been in France weeks before previously thought. Doctors at a Paris hospital say a patient admitted

in December was infected with COVID-19, well before the cases were first diagnosed in France or Italy. On the vaccine front, Pfizer and German pharmaceutical company BioNTech announced they've started human trials of a vaccine in the United States on Monday. If successful, the vaccine could be ready for use as early as September. And here at home, a new number for related deaths that have happened in long-term care facilities, 62%, and this is according to a new report by the International Long-Term Care Policy Network. The group says this is the highest proportion of coronavirus-related deaths in long-term care facilities among 13 countries that are officially reporting the data. And finally, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau unveiled a $252 million aid package this morning aimed at helping farmers and food processors, including the hard-hit meatpacking industry, navigate the coronavirus pandemic. All right, back to our main story, kids and COVID-19.

Dr. Isaac Bogosh is here. Hi, Isaac. Thanks so much for making the time. Anytime. Happy to chat. Okay, so I want to talk to you today about this study that came out of Australia this week. You know, conventional wisdom tells us that children are super spreaders, right?

Like that there are these petri dishes of germs. They touch their noses, their eyes, their mouths, and then they touch each other. They touch other people. But now there's this study out of this one state in Australia that suggests that children may not be such primary drivers of COVID-19 spread in the schools or the community. And the study showed that there were 18 confirmed cases in 15 schools, but that they resulted in only two additional transmissions among 881 close contacts. So what do you take away from these findings? Yeah, certainly those are very interesting findings. And, you know,

if this pans out, and certainly if this is replicated in other settings, you know, this would be a good news story. I mean, we could sort of harness that and think that perhaps we could start to send kids back to school or back to daycare or even to summer camps and hopefully have very little impact or negative impact of that. And, you know, I think anyone who is a parent might breathe a sigh of relief when they hear this because they think, oh, God, you know, it's hard enough to have a full-time job and then teach your kids at home at the same time. And it'd be nice to get the kids out of the house and have some physical activity. But I still think that we have to have a little bit of caution when we hear this result. And certainly, it may very well pan out that kids are less susceptible to getting

this infection. That may very well be true. It also may pan out that kids are just less efficient at spreading this infection compared to, you know, older people. That also may very well be true. But we would need to see a larger burden of evidence before I think we make major policy decisions that could have a significant impact on the health and well-being of larger communities. Why do researchers and experts think that kids could be less susceptible or less efficient at spreading this? Like, what is it about kids? Yeah, I like how you pointed out earlier that this would be counterintuitive to anything we think about with infectious diseases, because usually, as you point out,

kids are the petri dishes. Yes. And they're just filthy. You just send them to daycare and you're just sick all the time, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But, you know, there might be something about this virus. And, you know, I'm speculating here. I don't have a real answer and I don't think anyone else does. But there's theories about how this virus gets into the cells and the certain receptors that are on lung cells and cells in the back of the throat that might help the virus get in. And perhaps kids just don't have the same amount or the same proportion of those receptors. So kids truly may be less susceptible to this. I still think it's extremely important to point out that kids can get infected with this virus. We know that.

It's not that kids can't get this virus. They might be less likely to get this virus. And it's not that kids can't transmit this virus to others. Of course they can. But it might be, and being careful with my words, it might be the situation that kids are less efficient at transmitting this infection. And then we have to stop and take a step back. Let's just say that that's the best case scenario. If you put a thousand kids together in a school or you put,

you know, a bunch of several hundred kids together in a summer camp and the virus is introduced, there still will likely be some kids that get infected. There still will likely be some kids that are transmitting this infection to others. And that is still a scenario where you may be able to amplify this virus, maybe even a little bit, maybe not as much as we thought. And the issue is when those kids come home, they can infect their mom or dad. They could or worse, they can affect their grandmother or grandfather and they can start another chain of transmission in the community. So I think before we start to get kids clustered together in large groups like in schools or in summer camps, we have to be very careful about how we digest the current data that's available. And if there is a scenario where kids are going to get together in schools or in summer camps, I still think, based on what we know as of today, they

should still be doing things like practicing physical distancing and practicing impeccable hand hygiene. Easy to say, hard to do, and especially hard to do when we're dealing with kids. So this is what I wanted to ask you about, because let's talk about Quebec for a second, which is really the first province to make moves on this issue, right? Elementary school students are going to go back to school as early as next week. Montreal will follow, daycares as well. And they are putting some rules in place, you know, 15, max 15 students per class. They're talking a lot about hand hygiene. They're talking a lot about, you know, not congregating in like lunchrooms, etc. And so do you think that Quebec is putting in the right restrictions here or perhaps moving a little too hastily?

I think they're doing both. I think they're doing this too hastily. I think they're doing this too hastily. And I think that given the burden of infection in Quebec right now, we know that it is, you know, of all the provinces and territories, this is the epicenter in Canada, especially in and around Montreal. I think they're just doing it too soon. And I think you would want to introduce these measures later on when you have a lower burden of infection in the community settings. Now, I appreciate that in Quebec, a lot of those numbers are driven by long-term care facilities, but that's not to say that there isn't transmission outside of those long-term care facilities as well. So I think it's too soon, and I think they should wait until the community burden is decreased. In the same breath, you know, if they are going back to school, you know, it is extremely important to take some precautions. And it sounds like they are taking those precautions. But I think it would be important to take those precautions and apply those at a later date. And, you know, I just don't think we know enough about this. And I think it's to really do it at this point in time, especially

in the context of having the numbers of cases that Quebec is showing. You mentioned before, you know, of course, kids can get this. And so let's even take at face value right now, even though we don't have all the information that, you know, kids are less susceptible to getting this, they're less efficient at spreading it. But the ones that do get it, I want to talk about what happens to them. And what we do know is that there does seem to be a small number of children that can get severely ill. And now doctors in Europe and New York and even in Quebec are concerned about an increase in the number of children with a multi-system inflammatory state requiring intensive care,

symptoms that are in line with something called Kawasaki disease. And what exactly is this disease and what could the link be to COVID-19? This is really interesting. And certainly, I think it's a good idea to touch on a couple of things. One is that, you know, of the kids that do get infected, as you point out, the vast majority of them actually have a very mild illness. And most kids do just fine. In fact, most kids have a much more mild course of illness compared to adults. But of course, that's looking at the 30,000 foot view. And there will be the odd scenario where a child has a severe infection.

And sadly, there's even cases of children child has a severe infection. And sadly, there's even cases of children succumbing to the Zola. Luckily, that's rare. Of course, it's tragic, but it's rare. Now, in the UK and more recently in Quebec, we've heard about a small spike in the number of something called, as you point out, it's called Kawasaki's disease. This is a really interesting disease. Not a lot is known about it. It's not quite clear what causes it, but it's a really an inflammatory condition that's characterized by fevers, by swollen lymph nodes, and by inflammation of the blood vessels, like the large blood vessels, including inflammation of the heart. And if it's identified early enough, it certainly can be treated. But, you know, the question is, is there a link to COVID-19

infections and Kawasaki's disease? Now, certainly, if there was a link, it would still be a very rare complication because the numbers of cases of Kawasaki's disease are rare to begin with. And, you know, of course, we're in the middle of a COVID-19 pandemic. So it might be easier to draw associations between A and B in the context of a pandemic when an association doesn't actually exist. But it certainly does raise eyebrows. And even though there are still a rare number of cases of Kawasaki's disease, I think some people are looking into seeing if there is an association between a COVID-19 infection and Kawasaki's disease, I think some people are looking into seeing if there is an

association between a COVID-19 infection and Kawasaki's disease. But listeners shouldn't come away from this thinking, oh my God, if my kid gets this, they're going to get Kawasaki's disease. That's not the case. I think Kawasaki's disease with or without a COVID-19 pandemic is still going to be an extremely rare event. I think, you know, I feel like maybe parents will get some sort of comfort from the first study, the study out of Australia, and we still don't have enough information on how infectious children are and susceptible. But, you know, this seems like it could be quite alarming for a lot of parents. You know, what should they be looking out for? Well, I mean, like anything else,

I think it's important that parents ensure that their kids also practice physical distancing measures. And of course, it's tough when it's nice outside and they see their friends riding their bikes and they want to go, you know, play in the park with their friends, but they really still should practice physical distancing measures as well. And that's for a couple of reasons. First, you don't want your kids to get this infection, even though children will likely have a very smooth ride and many might not even know they're infected. The likelihood that they have no symptoms or very mild symptoms is very high. But of course, you know, we know that's not the case for all kids. And certainly in the rare scenario, kids can have a more serious infection. I think what's more concerning is if kids do have this infection, and especially if they're not aware that they're feeling unwell,

they can bring this infection home and infect others who might be more predisposed to having a serious outcome. I think we've got to be very careful about kids as a possible nidus for infection in other settings. You know, if a parent sees it, has a child, of course, during the course of this epidemic in Canada, if a child is having fevers or develops a cough or has, you know, some achy muscles or some chills, it would be a very wise idea to call the local public health line and just see, you know, where the nearest testing center is to ensure that a test is done in a quick manner so you can rule this in or rule this out. Okay. Isaac Bogosh, thank you so much. Anytime. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection.

Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. All right, that's all for today. Thanks so much for listening to FrontBurner. Stay tuned tomorrow morning. We're going to take a deep dive into sexual assault allegations against presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden.

Talk to you tomorrow.