Front Burner - In Rome, Indigenous delegates push for papal accountability

Episode Date: April 1, 2022

This week, First Nations, Métis and Inuit delegations from Canada travelled to the Vatican to share stories of the impact of church-run residential schools on their communities with Pope Francis and to call for an official apology from the very top of the Catholic Church for abuses committed at the schools, up to 70 per cent of which were run by the church. They got one. Pope Francis apologized on Friday for the conduct of some members of the Roman Catholic Church in Canada's residential school system. "It's chilling to think of determined efforts to instill a sense of inferiority, to rob people of their cultural identity, to sever their roots," he said. "This is something that unfortunately, and at various levels, still happens today — that is, ideological colonization. "All this has made me feel two things very strongly — indignation and shame." Journalist Brandi Morin joins us from Rome after listening closely this week to Indigenous leaders, youth and religious figures. She explains what delegates hope these meetings will lead to — and why they are only the start of reconciliation with the church.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. You're hearing the sounds of Métis fiddlers playing in St. Peter's Square in the Vatican City in Rome.

They're among nearly 200 Indigenous people who traveled to the Vatican this week, as Pope Francis weighs calls for an official apology from the very top of the Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church is the only one that hasn't apologized. This is something, is an important step. That institution operated more than two-thirds of Canada's residential schools. The Pope took private meetings with Métis, Inuit, and First Nations delegations this week. And as this episode is released, he'll be meeting them all together and live streaming his responses to what he heard. Today, we're talking to Brandy Morin. Brandy is a Cree, French, and

Iroquois journalist from the Treaty 6 territory in Alberta, and she's in Rome today covering the visit for Al Jazeera English. Hi, Brandi. Thank you so much for joining us. Tansi, thank you for having me. It's such a pleasure. So I want to start here. You and I are speaking on Thursday afternoon. And as I mentioned in that introduction, the Pope

will have a public meeting with delegations by the time this episode is released. And I imagine whatever happens, it will be making headlines back home. And going into Friday, what were people expecting from this final and public meeting? You know, I think that there is, I guess, kind of mixed expectations from the delegates that I've spoken to. You know, many of them are hopeful and feeling very optimistic, you know, of them are hopeful and feeling very optimistic, you know, about this meeting. Others aren't so sure. I mean, there is just a lot of mistrust, you know, between, you know, the church and, you know, Indigenous peoples and the track record isn't very good. So there was a number of different asks that the delegates of the Métis, the Inuits and the First Nations had for the pontiff.

And, you know, one of them was for him to come to indigenous lands in Canada and give an official apology. So perhaps they are anticipating that he may provide a response to that, you know, Friday. Let's talk a little bit about the private meetings that led up to Friday. The Pope met with about 30 people in three separate Indigenous delegations, the Métis, Inuit, and First Nations delegations. And as I understand it, an important part of these meetings was for the Pope to meet residential school survivors. And one of the people the Pope met was Norman Yacolaya, a former chief of the Dene Nation, who is also a survivor of residential schools. And you spoke to him before he went into that meeting. And can you tell me about what he wanted the Pope to hear?

Yes, so Norman, he, you know, can be seen, you know, throughout this whole week, you know, smiling and laughing, you know, with everybody, you know, in the delegations. In residential school, you want to live. You want to go see your mom and your dad. And to be positive is a good thing. That's what our elders tell us. And when I heard a little bit of his story, I was actually pretty stunned at how positive he is considering the things that he went through. When you're hurt, especially in sexual abuse, especially a young boy, now a man you don't talk about, that's a lot of shame you carry.

He was taken from his parents when he was just five years old and forced to stay at the residential school located in Inuvik until he was a teenager. And he spoke about the price that he had to pay as a survivor, the price that his mother and all mothers had to pay for sending, you know, for their kids having to go to residential schools. But he was optimistic and hopeful, you know, going into this meeting and expressing how he was just happy to be here and happy to be alive another day because he made it out alive of the residential schools. And he says, you know, I thought this was a golden opportunity to come together as indigenous people from all over Canada, people from all over Canada, as the brothers and sisters from the Métis and the Inuit, to come as a united voice to come and make peace with the Pope, and to listen to him,

and him to listen to us. But he also said something that kind of stunned me, given that he was raised in this institution, this religious institution that perpetuated so much violence against him. And yet we are here in Rome with this holy place, the Vatican, for the Catholic religion. He said to me... On Matthew 7, 7, ask and you shall receive what we have asked the Pope. Now he's, we received his invitation. Now we're going to knock on his door and it shall be open to us. You also heard from a young person coming out of one of the meetings and what did, what, what did someone of a different generation have to say to you?

Yes, absolutely. So Taylor Ben-Tezcoza is a member of the Fort Nelson First Nation, and she's an official youth delegate with the Assembly of First Nations who traveled here to Rome to take part in that meeting. and she had the opportunity to address the Pope, she shared with me that just before when they were being led into this room at the Vatican to meet with him, that they had to walk through a really long hallway. And she said, as I was walking each step I took, it was like I knew that someone was with me, helping me, and that my ancestors were with me. And she said it was just like a really kind of sacred moment to her. And then she said when they were in the room with the Pope that he seemed to acknowledge and be responsive to what they were saying.

to acknowledge and be responsive to what they were saying. But I also want to note that she pointed out that this isn't just some checkmark regarding reconciliation. She said this is just another step, and when she goes back home, that's what's going to matter most when they go home to continue to hold the Catholic Church accountable. accountable. So one of the main requests is, of course, an official apology from the Pope. This is, I believe, number 58 out of 94 recommendations in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission seven years ago. And so it has been a very difficult task to try and get an apology from the head of the Catholic Church. I hear Indigenous people talk about how they would like the Pope to come to Canada and apologize on Indigenous soil.

Along with their own call for an official apology to be made in Canada. We are hoping that he will come to Canada and apologize to all those families that he needs to apologize to for all the wrongdoings of the past. Why is that so important? This is where the injustices took place. where the injustices took place. You know, some of the leadership here in the delegations told me that if the Pope made an apology here, it would not matter.

It would not count. That it needs to happen on Indigenous, you know, soil in order to be meaningful, in order for the people and the families, the generations that have been affected, you know, can be there to witness. So now let's talk a little bit more about other calls for action, starting with the Métis National Council's president calling for unfettered access to church records. So what would that do? Church officials in Canada, you know, were telling Indigenous peoples that the missing records were here. Evelyn Corkmass is searching for a part of her residential school

history that could be hidden thousands of kilometers away. These documents do not belong in Rome. They belong here. Nobody seems to know, you know, where these missing records are. And I think that if they were found and if they were released, it would just provide that truth, that accountability, that transparency, you know, as to what occurred. And I think for a lot of people, that's really crucial, you know, in this journey of healing. And I know as well, the Inuit Tapirite

Kanatami, the group representing Inuit in Canada is asking the Pope for help also to send a priest back from France to Canada. And can you tell me about him and what the request is there? There is a Oblate priest named Johannes Rivoire who is accused of sexual assault against numerous Inuit children that happened about 47 years ago. The warrant for Father Rivoire was issued in 1998. Documents obtained by CBC under access to information show the government stayed all charges in 2017,

but the alleged victims and their families were never told. He's now 93, but since the 1990s, he has lived in France. He has never been tried on charges in Canada because France does not extradite their French nationals. The RCMP issued a new arrest warrant for Johannes and, you know, he's accused of these crimes. So Natan Obed, the president of the ITK, you know, asked Pope Francis to intervene because he believes that Pope Francis would have the power, you know, to be able to circumvent these, you know, government laws in order for this priest to stand trial in Canada or in France? We ask that the Pope speak with Father Revoir directly and ask him to go to Canada

to face the charges that he is up on in Canada. And if Father Revoir is not agreeable to that, if the Pope would do all that he could to work with the French government to ensure that either extradition can happen or that Father Revoir can be tried in France. And he shared with me how the Pope told him how he shared how sexual abuse within the church is unacceptable and how he never wants to see sexual abuse again by the hands of anyone related to the church. And Natan told me that he was taking this very seriously. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization.

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That's not a typo, 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. And I just want to note before we go on that this priest, Johannes Revoir, he did tell the Parisian newspaper Le Monde that he is not guilty of the crimes that he has been accused of. We've also been hearing people on the trip say it's time to repatriate indigenous artifacts. And can you tell me about that?

Yes. So I briefly attended a tour with the delegation the other day at the Vatican Museum. And after a little bit, I kind of wandered off on my own and unknowingly into an area that was holding and preparing these artifacts to be on display to the public. And I was actually really surprised and shocked. Inside the Vatican, Indigenous delegates saw parts of their own ancestral past under glass. Precious items like this Gwich'in baby belt from Yukon River, these beaded moccasins from B.C., and these Cree-embro embroidered gloves from northern Canada.

When the rest of the delegation reached that part of the museum, it was pretty disturbing for a lot of them to see, you know, these, a lot of them were ceremonial items and, you know, artifacts belonging to their ancestors and, you know, symbolic of the, you know, the ravaging of Indigenous lives and land that was done and, you know, taken. A lot of them would like them to be repatriated. And from what I understand, again, Natan Obed, you know, met with a curator of the museum that day. He requested after, you know, viewing these items about the possibility of repatriating some of these items. And he said that the curator was actually, you know, in favor of looking into that. So that would be very significant.

And it's needed. That is a part of reconciliation. This story is also challenging for Indigenous Catholics, right? And I know too that last night you spoke to an Indigenous priest from the United States who flew to Rome for this, right? Maurice Henry Sands. This is an important step towards being able to heal and it's also an important step in which the truth is being acknowledged and the truth is being... Can you tell me a little bit about that conversation and what he had to say? Yeah, so I was fascinated to learn that he was here. I just found out a couple of days ago that he flew in from Washington where he is a full-time priest.

And he's originally from a First Nation in Ottawa and one just across the Canada-US border. So he has been a priest for probably about 20 years now. And I just was intrigued about how he was able to, you know, operate as a priest given the violence that was done, you know, by the church towards Indigenous peoples. And he shared with me things that he was taught by his elders and by his parents in regards to forgiveness. You know, that's the way that we're going to be able to heal, that's the way that we're going to be able to move forward and pass our way to not allow anger and hatred to consume us. And he said that he felt that you know God called him to work you know as you know to serve to serve in that capacity And he also called for justice. He wanted to be here to witness this historic event and to support the Indigenous delegates here.

So I know that this is historic, and I know it's very monumentally significant. Brandy, I know your grandmother was also a Catholic and a residential school survivor. And I wonder what it's been like for you covering this story this week. It's been exceptionally difficult. I do this work all the time, and I wasn't expecting it to be as difficult as it is. I've been in tears multiple times, and I'm just trying to—

I want to do the best work that I can do as a journalist, but at the same time, I just, I feel everything that's going on here. I think of my family. I think of the survivors that I've been covering their stories for so many years. And it's all, you know, come to this really important, significant moment, this apology. It's simple, but it's so huge. And there's so many survivors that have been wanting to hear those three simple words, I am sorry, for so many years. And they're dying out every day. Dr. Wilton Littlechild told me that right now, four residential school survivors a day are dying and that they're

going to their graves without feeling and knowing that justice, without hearing those apologies. And that that's all they've been asking for. This is historic, but I think that the experience for everybody is a wild ride of up and down. And it's going to be something to remember, something that we're all going to be, I think, finally taking in when we get home. Thank you so much for everything, Brandy. You're welcome. Take care. Hi, hi. We'll leave you today on the sounds of a scene Brandy filmed on Thursday. The First Nations delegation blocking traffic as they walk through the streets of Rome on their way to meet

the Pope. The National Indian Residential Schools Crisis Line is available 24-7 to provide support to residential school survivors and others affected. The number is 1-866-925-4419. All right, that is all for this week. Front Burner is brought to you by CBC Podcasts and CBC News. Our producers are Simi Bassey, Imogen Burchard, Lauren Donnelly, Ali Janes, Katie Todd, and Derek Vanderwyk. Our sound design this week was by Mackenzie Cameron and Nourani Karane and Sam McNulty. Joseph Shabison wrote our music. The executive producers this week were Ali Janes and Imogen Burchard. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thank you so much for listening to Fred Berner and we'll

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