Front Burner - Inside Iran as peace talks continue

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

Margaret Evans is CBC’s Senior International Correspondent. She just returned from a week-long reporting trip in Tehran, speaking to Iranians on the ground about the impact of the war and the preliminary peace agreement.In a Canadian exclusive, CBC News reported from Iran with permission of the country’s government, who put restrictions on journalists but have no say over what we decide to publish or broadcast.For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

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This is a CBC podcast. Hi, I'm J.B. Poisson. Encouraging progress. That's how mediators described the first round of peace talks between the U.S. and Iran this week. And there is a lot to make progress on, like enforcing a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah and Lebanon, which at a minimum would keep the strait of Hormuz open to shipping traffic, and letting U.N. nuclear inspectors back into the country, which the U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance says Iran has agreed to,

and the Iranians say there's no clear schedule for. Today I'm talking to my colleague Margaret Evans, CBC Senior International correspondent. She just returned from a week-long reporting trip inside Tehran, a place that is very difficult for international journalists to enter. In a Canadian exclusive CBC news reported from Iran with permission from the country's government who put restrictions on journalists, but have no say over what we decide to publish or broadcast. Margaret, hey, it's great to have you on the show. Thanks for being here. Oh, it's nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

So obviously, as I mentioned, it is very difficult for journalists to get into Iran right now. And just can you tell me a bit more about how you did it and what that was like? Yeah. Canada hasn't had diplomatic relations with Iran since about 2012. And that makes it even more difficult to get visas, really. We did get one last year, as did our call. leagues at the Globe and Mail. That was before the June war, if you like, but when Israel and the United States launched attacks against Iran. And since then, we've been given one. You basically have to apply. They do let Western news organizations in sometimes just one or two at a time.

And you basically have to agree to use a local media company, which deals with the foreign and the cultural ministries and they approve the visas. And those local media companies essentially become responsible for your conduct. So they act kind of as minders. And just can you tell me more about what that's like? Like once you get into the country, like what that relationship is like and how you travel around with them. Yeah. You basically put your requests for officials through them, they assign you the driver that you're with. They assign a government-approved translator. We do have checked the translations and haven't had any issues there. But it's basically like moving around with a shadow, that's for sure. And the assumption is that, you know, you're being

monitored. And do they put restrictions on you, like who you can talk to, where you can go, etc. Well, like I said, yeah, I mean, you have to put some your official requests through them. You know, we did go to a cemetery on the outskirts of Tehran one Friday, and we were allowed to go to one part of the cemetery, which is where Iranian government or military were buried and their families. We asked, can we see some of the graves of the people who were killed in the January protests and, you know, get a vague answer. another colleague who'd been earlier in earlier, a few weeks earlier from a British media organization, said they were denied permission that there was a section. So that's the way it works. Yeah, you can't go everywhere you want to. That said, we did go out a lot and try to talk to people. So you can talk to people. It's just you have to be aware all the time of their safety as well because,

And that's the real problem for journalists is that it is a country where people can have serious consequences for speaking against the government line. And our minders didn't interfere to that degree, but you have to be aware of it in terms of where are they? Are they listening to this? Is there somebody else listening to this? Because, you know, we had an incident where our videographer, Liza Salle, was filming some billboards on a square. and she was stopped by a plain-clothes policeman. And, you know, three others quickly appeared. You wouldn't be able to spot them, you know, unless you were an expert in the crowd.

So there are other listeners and other watchers. And basically, we were held until they could verify that we had our permissions, which the local media company with us was able to sort out for us. But that's the kind of atmosphere that you're working in. You have to protect the people who are talking to you as well. Yeah. Were you able to speak with people who are critical of the regime? And if so, like, what did they end up telling you?

Yeah, we were. As I said, we did go out and talk to sort of do a lot of voxpops. We met a number of women who were not wearing their headscarves. That's something that when we were there last year, we noticed this was a trend. that more women were not wearing their headscarves. And this time absolutely multiplied the number of women, not only without their headscarves, but without even wearing them around their necks

in case the morality police asked them, it's been against the law to go without a headscarf for women since just after the Iranian Revolution in 1979. We talked to lots of women about that. You know, in the past, those women would be faced with, potentially jail, certainly fines. The authorities don't seem to be restricting that in the same way they have in the past. And critics would say that there's a reason that they want to present an image of a more benign regime to the outside world right now. And we certainly, I met one woman on the last day,

and not with a camera. Many people will not speak to you on camera. But just with my iPhone recorder, talked to her privately through the interpreter. And she just said, you know, people are afraid to talk. And she said what she wants is to see accountability for the thousands of protesters. Her words, thousands of protesters killed in January demanding change. So she spoke openly about wanting that. But not very many people, she didn't want to give her name. And not many people would speak openly about.

those things, the people who are opposed to the regime and who have, you know, for decades been campaigning for an end to the Islamic Republic. Just on your point that the regime, that the current government there is trying to project a bit of a different image. Like I remember last week we spoke with Valley Nassar, an expert John Hopkins that we've had on the show several times. Well, really, since the start of the war. And he was making the argument that the leadership is communicating this kind of image of Iran that's rooted now more in nationalism than religion. And I suppose the headscarves would like fit into that, right? And that there's really been this rally around the flag effect since the war began. And I just wonder like if you would agree with that assessment and, you know, if it's in line with what you witness there. Well, I'm not sure that they would be actively signaling an end to the headscarf rule or being wanting to. It's sort of maybe more subtle messaging because they have to think about the messaging to their own base as well. And of course, this is a country of more than 90 million people. And there are many supporters of the Islamic Republic who wouldn't be too happy with that. I also would be cautious about the rallying around the flag comparison in the way. that we might understand it from the West, people could be, you know, against, they could be

supportive of the government in its defensive stance towards the attacks by Israel and the United States without necessarily supporting the regime. And we certainly heard that, that, you know, this was an unprovoked attack in their minds, many people. And, and they'd don't, you know, even with speaking with members of the diaspora, Iranians living abroad, there was a lot of division there about whether this was helpful or not. They didn't like to see the infrastructure of the country destroyed the things that people need to survive in Iran. So it's not a simple rallying around the flag.

I would say that in the imagery that I saw, and a lot of the communication and the messaging in Tehran, at least, are. permissions were only for Tehran, is communicated through these huge billboards that they have everywhere. And that is usually, you know, you will see the founder of the Iranian Revolution, you know, Ayatollah Khomeini. You'd have Ali Khomeini, of course, the last Supreme Leader who was assassinated. And then his son, Moshtaba, the new Supreme Leader, you know, pictured together now. In addition to that, you're seeing an insertion. if you like, of the Iranian flag more often. It's not just these religious figures quite often

depicted in, you know, in afterlife. And one image in particular that sticks out in my mind was Ali Khanini, senior passing the Iranian flag through a doorway to his son, Mushtaba. So I think that there, there is a sense of that kind of nationalism coming to the fore and potentially the current regime, the new regime, kind of saying, this is, you know, because there's also a pride that's taken place amongst people that Iran has managed to resist. There was great offense taken by when the U.S. President Donald Trump said that he was going to wipe out a civilization, that he would return Iran to the Stone Age. Let's take a look. He says a whole civilization, we'll die tonight, never to be brought back again. He goes on to say, I don't want that to happen, but it probably will.

This is a sophisticated centuries-old civilization. And I think that the current regime has certainly picked up on that outrage and the pride that people feel that, you know, that Iran didn't just buckle. But again, as I've said, you know, it's so nuanced and the different desires of different parts of the population are so different. You have to take pretty much everything with a grain of salt. If you sold somebody a loaded gun who you knew was in a vulnerable state and they shot themselves, I think it is murder. Just because you're using the internet doesn't mean you get away with murder. I'm Damon Fairless, host of Hunting Warhead. This season, I take you inside the business of suicide, and the places desperate people go when they can't find what they need in the real world. Hunting the Suicide Salesman.

available now wherever you get your podcasts. We reached an agreement with Iran that achieves everything we set out to accomplish everything and much more. So you were there after the preliminary agreement to end the war was reached. Since then, it has really gotten off, as you know, to a shaky start. Israeli air strikes continued in Lebanon in the days after over the weekend. Iran was claiming they had closed the strait of Hormuz again. Trump threatened to attack Iran again unless they, according to him, reigned in their proxies in Lebanon. But just like when you were there, what kind of reactions

did you hear from people about the agreement at the time? Like what was their overall kind of sense of it? I think that they were really confused because exactly what you've described was actually going on before the agreement was reached as well. You know, to the point that, you know, you had Donald Trump threatening to renew air strikes and people kind of leaving Tehran fearful that, you know, that the war was going to start up again because it was in a ceasefire mode, but although with, you know, various breaches in both directions. Yeah. And there was this, yes, we have a deal. No, we don't. Yes, we do. No, we don't. It is going to be signed. No, it isn't. There's an electronic

signature. Well, that's not good enough. And this went up on all the way up to the announcement of the agreement. So, you know, people, I think, met it with a great deal of skepticism. And of course, that's being borne out, as you mentioned. If there is to be peace between us and the U.S., he says, America needs to respect the Iranian people and acknowledge its mistakes. At the same time, the Iranian government that exists now, at least the public face of that government,

so the foreign minister Abbas Arakchi and the president, Masud Pezeshkian, are really trying to sell this agreement to the public. Iraqi spokesman Ishmael Bakai gives a weekly briefing. Given that strand, why should the United States believe that you will be able to sell this deal

to the Iranian people? Thank you. Our people as a historic nation have demonstrated their unity, he said, and also trust their decision-makers. So that's a measure of their design. desire for it to happen, although you've also had a message from Mostaba, Hamenei, the new Supreme Leader, saying he didn't approve of the agreement.

And so confusion is the name of the game. I should point out, since we've mentioned him a couple of times, the new Supreme Leader has yet to appear in public. So he communicates through statements or messages from, you know, read by other officials. So I think they're in this position where Pazashkian and the foreign minister could potentially be the fall guys if the agreement doesn't go ahead. But I guess your question was about ordinary people. People are tired. People are tired.

And I think they want to believe that the agreement could restore order, could improve their economic situation. But again, also then you have that constituency of the opposition who were, you know, those protests were very, brutally put down in January, and we're still seeing some of the people accused of leading those demonstrations arrested, and some of them are facing execution, some have been executed. For people who are opposed to the regime, the fact that this agreement might go ahead, is it going to be a disappointment because it points potentially to no chance for them to change. Yeah. This is a bit of an aside, but I wonder if I could ask you why it is that you think that the news

Supreme Leader has not appeared in public. Well, I mean, he was apparently reportedly, a number of news organizations have reported that he was injured quite badly in the same attack that killed his father. The real conspiracy theories, Sarah, as you will, you could find some people who say, is he actually alive? But there are others who say, well, he's basically just recuperating, recovering for from this terrible attack or the injuries he's sustained. I really don't know.

He, you know, it sounds a bit wizard of Ozish, if you like to put it in an old-fashioned Western kind of construction. But, you know, nobody knows. Since the agreement, many experts have basically said that this is a victory for Iran, right? For example, that Iran isn't being asked to give up parts of its military forces, that it's getting a lot of economic benefits upfront before giving anything up, that it leaves the door open for possible fees to travel the Strait of Hormuz in two months. And the nuclear question, which was the stated reason the U.S. went to war, is largely being pushed to further kind of technical talks down the road. And I saw this weekend, you know, Iran was reiterating as kind of longstanding promise to not make a nuclear weapon, but but it is also doubling down on not wanting to give up what it sees as this right to enrich uranium. And just, you know, in the aftermath, when you were there speaking to people, was there a sense on the ground that this was a kind of victory for the Iranian regime for the government?

Yeah, I think a lot of people do. I think I, as I said, said earlier that there is a sense of pride that I think many Iranians would say that that the outside world in the West in particular expected Iran to crumble early on. People in the Middle East would say they're not surprised that Iran and Iranians are extremely seasoned and skilled negotiators and that this is what they would have expected to happen. So I think many ordinary Iranians would see it as a success. And Iranian analysts as well, if you look at what it looks like what's going to happen is basically Donald Trump is, you know, is not going to get potentially, he might get the same as what as the sort of the old agreement, the old

nuclear agreement that existed before he pulled out. And what other people would tell you on the ground. I mean, more than 3,000 people, Iranians were killed in the U.S. Israeli air strikes. Enormous damage to the country. We weren't allowed to film a lot of it because a lot of it was, you know, they were considered were told. They were considered sensitive sites, police stations, or things like that. But people also lost loved ones. People in the military, there is conscription in Iran or people who, you know, simply happened to live in a building that was targeted, you know, for assassination, for, you know, somebody else lived in it for reasons unknown. People lost loved ones.

And they ask, and many people ask, what was the point of this war? Right. And it happened. And a few months later, they're seeing potentially peace, but they are missing a mother, a father, a children. And of course, we all remember the dreadful attack on the school in Minab when more than 100 children were killed. Those scars are deep in the hearts of Iranians and not just those who, support the regime, but those who oppose it as well. And then as you've already talked about, this is a population that also went through that

brutal crackdown at the beginning of the year with just so many protesters killed. And just like when you speak to people there, what do they hope will happen in their country now? Well, a lot of people talked about the economy. You know, you would meet people who would say, or our family has. made a decision actually before the war, even before the protests to, you know, inflation was so out of control. The government would blame it on sanctions, decades of sanctions. People were making decisions. They're saying, we can't afford to eat meat anymore. So we're just going to choose vegetables when we're shopping, that kind of stuff. Shopkeepers would talk about, you know,

prices were rising so quickly that they would raise their prices in anticipation, just not to fall behind the rate of inflation. So, you know, there's that. In terms of people who support change, I mean, there was a lot of despair. Met a couple of young women, say 16, 17, talking about not really knowing what their future would be like. There's a period of calm and peace,

and then right after the war starts again, says Bahran. a 17-year-old who also points to economic woes and skyrocketing prices. We're so concerned about whether we're able to afford our ordinary lives now or in a week from now, she says. And a couple of these young women talked about their dreams for the future, and these two women that I'm thinking about weren't wearing headscarves. They talked about the sacrifices that were made during the protests. you know, one woman used, which she said, we're just all kind of watching our dreams fade away. You know, look at us. We don't look at us and see our smiles and things like that. We're actually

unhappy. Everyone in Iran is unhappy, one of them said, and said she had, she didn't feel like she had a lot left to live for. She had nothing left to lose. So she said she was going to live her life the way she wanted to live it. And that's why she was not going to wear a headscarf. I think you've been four times, right, to Iran on reporting trips. And you mentioned that the last one was last year. Like, what struck you the most this time around compared to your other trips besides sort of the physical destruction and the aftermath of the war? It was the fact that so many women were going without headscarves. And it wasn't just in Tehran.

We were in Tabriz, other cities. it was right across the board. More women were wearing, we were driving scooters, which is not normal, or not the norm, I should say. That was the biggest change.

The thing is that it's very hard to answer the question because there's no doubt that these past two wars and this one that began in February in particular, they are changing Iran and it's very hard to predict what the outcome of it is going to be. I mean, I'd say that most people are expecting that, you know, the hardliners in a cast that is already sort of full of hardliners, the real hardliners will come out on top on this. And that once things normalized with the Americans, if they do, that potentially you'll have an even more restrictive regime in place.

And so if I cast my mind back to, say, before, last year, I was there in 2009, which was another time where there were, a lot of protests, a lot of optimism about potential change and direction for Iran. And they called it the Green Revolution. And those protests were put down as well. So I'd say, you know, sadly, one of my lasting impressions on this trip is that the drive for reform or for hope, you know, the reformists come up a bit in a cyclical way, but they are always put down. and to the point where a lot of analysts would say there's no such thing as a reformer anymore in terms of the government, you know, the corridors of power. Oh, I did speak to a couple of people who said, that's not the case.

You know, change will come. It's just how it comes. And then you get into another debate in terms of the opposition. Does it come from the outside? Does it come from the inside? Is there the power, the strength of the protest movement to, revive again. And then there are those people who say, what was Donald Trump doing saying he was going to change the regime? Because some people believed that that would happen on the opposition side.

And I think on the reform side, just to give them their say as well, a lot of the people that we met, we went out to these night demonstrations that were pro-government night demonstrations in Tehran. And they were happening sort of from April on. We are at what's known as a night demonstration in Tehran. People come out to chant their support for the government and in many cases their hatred for the United States, for Israel, and for the bombing campaign that they have endured. But also, the closer that the United States and Iran got to a deal, the more unhappy, the hardliners within that hardline movement were. You saw extraordinary scenes of people demonstrating against Abbas Arakchi, for example. the foreign minister, calling him a traitor, even for contemplating negotiations with the Americans.

And many, of course, many supporters of the Islamic Republic, they want to see revenge for the assassination of their religious leader. Margaret, this was fascinating. Thank you so much for this. Thank you for all of your work. And thanks for making the time to do this with us. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

All right, that is all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. and thanks so much for listening. Talk to you tomorrow. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca.ca slash podcasts.