Front Burner - Is Biden's $1.9 trillion stimulus plan a one shot deal?

Episode Date: March 15, 2021

What can nearly two trillion dollars in a COVID stimulus package do for Americans who have been crushed by COVID-19? And could those supports morph into more permanent change? Today, CBC's senior news correspondent Paul Hunter explains.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson. U.S. President Joe Biden signed into law late last week a $1.9 trillion stimulus bill. It's called the American Rescue Plan, and it's being billed as delivering more help to poorer families than any other piece of legislation since the New Deal.

Is it a one-off, or will the Democrats move to try and permanently address the inequalities this pandemic has exposed? Paul Hunter is the CBC's Washington, D.C. correspondent, and he's here with me now to explain. Hey, Paul, how's it going? Thanks so much for being here. Hey, it's my pleasure, Jamie. Great. So, Paul, now that Trump is gone, for you as a Washington correspondent, I imagine your day is a little more predictable, hey? Like, dare I say more boring? Is that fair? you know, bleach in the bloodstream to combat COVID. Yeah, we had Dr. Seuss, we had Neanderthal, but, you know, drama is mostly gone, right? I mean, even the White House briefings are, you know, full of information. You know, I've always thought the role of a White House press secretary was when asked a question to have your lips move and noise to come out and some kind of

answer to emerge, but to not be on the news that night. And, you know, that's a lot of what's happening now. I mean, there are no verbal battles in that room. Information comes forward, but it's information. I mean, I'm not going to say it's all 100% truth, but the sense is there's more truth now than there, you know, there was before because basically the tone, it's just calmer, you know, it's weird. They have these things, you know, there's a pool of reporters who, who watch the president's every move at the white house and they send out emails to the rest of us because not everybody can be there all the time. And so they, you know, um, if, if Trump's motorcade was going somewhere and there were demonstrators out on the sidewalks, they would write to everybody and say,

this is what was written on the placards as people shouted at him or things like that. But they had one for Joe Biden last week. It was like one sentence. It was, you know, the Marine One helicopter landed on the South Lawn. You know, President Biden emerged and walked across the lawn into the Oval Office quietly. That was it. It's like there was no chopper talk. There was no there was no histrionics.

There was no nothing. It's just walked across the lawn quietly. So it's very uneventful. It's different now, Jamie. Speaking of Trump, I know that he has been relatively quiet, but he also has popped his head up a few times at CPAC via a release last week to tell us that no one should forget the vaccines are because of him. I know that you're in Washington. That's just one part of the country. But are people there paying attention to him?

Well, that's a good question. I mean, I said on election week that the thing about presidents is that when you leave the Oval Office for the last time, the world stops caring what you think or do because you've lost the reason that we cared, which is the power of the office itself. And that's true with Trump to a degree. He's not president. So why should we care? And yeah, I mean, the CPAC speech didn't really have any big news in it other than him teasing a potential run in 2024. Who knows? I may even decide to beat them for a third time. OK? You know, but I've got to say the broader view is is a kind of weariness on him. It's it's one of the reasons Biden won. People were and are tired of Trump. I think

ears perk up when they hear about ongoing investigations into him and his actions. So there's that. But it's safe to say Trump is no longer a part of every conversation the way he was every single day of the past four years, at least, Jamie, not for the moment. Right. So I suppose then this is a good segue for us to move on from talking about him in this conversation. And maybe we can focus on the first two months of Joe Biden's presidency. And first, I think we have to talk about what's top of mind for just just about everybody, which is the vaccine rollouts. And things are going pretty well over there, hey?

Yeah, you know, I'm registered for a vaccine. I don't have one yet. But it feels like a wave of vaccine is coming and that the end is near on COVID. I mean, who knows, right? But that's what it feels like. I mean, the U.S. is now in line for more vaccine to vaccinate everyone who needs it more than enough. in the country eligible for a shot in the arm by May 1st and a kind of, as he put it, return to normal by July 4th, right? I mean, that doesn't mean no masks or no social distancing, et cetera, but, you know, family get togethers can happen sort of normal. This is, I mean, Americans wanted to hear this. Canadians want to hear that kind of thing, right? But that big, you know, $2 trillion relief package last week, it brings money. You know, we talk about the $1,400 in people's pockets, but it brings money to, you know, expand mass inoculation centers. It would allow dentists and veterinarians to start administering vaccines, right? It's going to put more pharmacies online to administer vaccines. It's going to grow testing in schools. They're even going to make a, I think they're calling

it like a find a vaccine website so people know where to go. I mean, it really feels like it's happening here now. And speaking of this $2 trillion, $1.9 trillion aid package, you mentioned the money, the $1,400 checks that people are getting. Can you tell me a little bit more about what's in it? Yeah, well, the checks are no small deal, right? Turns out they're very popular for politicians. And are they going to everybody? Effectively, everybody. So it's a lot of money going out just as checks.

Not every single person, but effectively throughout America. First, those stimulus checks. Up to $1,400 for about 90% of households. The full amount for individuals making up to $75,000 a year and phasing out at $80,000. But, you know, more broadly, you know, this is about helping people in need, middle and low income earners. And so in that one point nine trillion dollars is money for child care, child tax credits, money for schools. None of this is aimed at the wealthy specifically. I mean, and here's the thing, for example, about child tax credits.

They're hard to reverse by future politicians. But the thinking is that it'll shape the U.S. for years to come because it'll be hard to undo. Right. What politician wants to sort of reverse a child tax care credit? So Biden's message in selling this, which he's going to be spending the next few weeks doing, by the way, he wants to tell Americans that government help is actually good for you, that this is good. I mean, don't listen to those who say government isn't here to help. It is. And that's the underlying aspect of this whole relief package. And the thinking is it could, in its own way, change the country, a country that is all about,

historically, all about less government, right? Lower taxes, less government intervention. Biden is saying with this package that government intervention is a good thing, and especially, it's especially needed for, you know, lower income earners who haven't been helped by government in a way that they should have been for generations. being helped by government in a way that they should have been for generations. Right, right. I know this package is helping to bail out, you know, roughly 185 union pension plans that are on the verge of collapse, aid and debt relief to disadvantaged black farmers. And you mentioned this child tax credit. The gist of the new policy is an increase in the child tax credit of up to $1,000 per child and then an extra $600 on top of that for children under the age of six.

children out of poverty, right, Paul? Like this is giving thousands of dollars back to parents who have children so that they can put that money, you know, back into their pockets, right? It's hard to quantify the myriad ways the pandemic has, you know, eviscerated the financial well-being of so many Americans. And that, again, is the key part of this package. You know, the headline, again, is the $1,400. But it is all these other aspects that are just aimed at making getting life closer to normal. And at the same time, focusing, unlike a lot of previous such packages, let's forget about the wealthy for a moment. Let's just target and let's aim and let's try to help those who need it most, middle and lower income earners.

I wonder if you could compare and contrast for me this package with a stimulus package that the Obama administration passed when he came to office in 2009 in the midst of the financial crisis back then. I suppose the biggest difference is that this is almost double the money. That was like $787 billion. But what are the differences and the similarities here? Yeah, well, I mean, that was a lifetime ago and a blink ago, right? But, you know, I think people may, if it's possible, have forgotten how scary that was, right? And so Obama came up with this giant package that he had to battle to get through Congress. He did. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act that I will sign today is the most sweeping economic recovery package in our history. And, you know, Joe Biden was there for that.

He was vice president, of course, as were others in the current Biden administration. And they learned lessons from what happened after it was passed. And that is that if you don't tell people what you've done for them, they might not realize it and they won't reward you at the ballot box. Another example is Obamacare, for example, unpopular in a lot of places because nobody realized the benefits they were getting were a result of it. Obama wasn't the best salesperson in that way. And so after his relief package came out for the financial crisis, he went around to factories and things like that, but he didn't, it was as if his heart wasn't in it. And I know that sounds facile because he was trying, but he wasn't the best at it. And the Biden people understand that. And so he, you know, Kamala Harris, others who've been, you know, kind of the peekaboo administration in a way so far

in this term, early days, they're heading out the door effectively now and are going to be highly visible the next several weeks underlining, we did this for you. Because fact is, you know, we talk about the midterms all the time, but the campaign for the midterms is on now. And if you don't tell people what you've done for them, they won't know. And so the biggest contrast probably, besides it's more than double the amount from 2009 when that got passed, is they're going to let people know that they did this for them. You got to tell people in plain, simple, straightforward language what it is you're doing to help. You've got to be able to tell a story. Tell the story of what you're about to do and why it matters.

Because it's going to make a difference in the lives of millions of people in very concrete, specific ways. Right. So you see this as sort of like a PR campaign. That's interesting. I think it's worth mentioning that while this bill has really been lauded, especially the child tax credits, as you mentioned, it's going to be difficult to pull back after a year. So it might even become permanent. A lot of people want to make it permanent. This bill is is not without its critics. Biden campaigned on a $2,000 stimulus check that was then whittled down to 1400, though they will say that the $600 checks that Trump sent

out add up to 2000. And also, I think importantly, this bill, a lot of people wanted it to include a $15 minimum wage, and it doesn't, right? Yeah, and I'm not convinced that the $15 minimum or the push for the $15 minimum wage won't come back. But yeah, it disappeared in this one. The problem, the challenge Biden faces is he's tugged from the left, from the more progressive side who want more of that kind of stuff while needing to be mindful of those in the so-called middle that don't want to go too far. And Biden knows that what Biden really wants is Republicans to come on side with things, right? And, you know, he didn't really get that with this. But there are limits on that. And if you force stuff through now, Biden knows, you're going to make a lot of people angry and you're going to have

good luck then getting support further down the line. So he'll come back. He'll say that, look, we did what we could. You can aspire for certain things. Let's take what we got. This is a huge amount of money for a lot of people. There will always be, you know, Democrats, critics of Biden who say you should have done more. Now's the chance. Obama didn't go far enough in his early days, they'll say. And that was another lesson. And but Biden will say you've got to be pragmatic at the same time. We got a lot done. This was a huge package, right? Maybe we didn't get to $2,000, but we got $1,400. And let's, you know, we live to fight another day. And that's, you know, when I come back to the $15 minimum wage, that will return, goes to thinking, wasn't here, but, you know,. What else is the Biden administration doing outside the stimulus package to address inequities, to try to reshape the country? I mean, and it's a long list, right? It includes gun control. It includes movement on racial injustices broadly. It includes, you know, making real progress on fighting climate change, on improving health care, on raising that minimum wage, you know, and, you know, what, you know, but one holdover from the Trump days is that partisan divide on Capitol Hill. I mean, Biden controls Capitol Hill,

but just barely. And these things are often easier said than done. Biden will be pushed hard to be as progressive as possible on that, to do more, to do it faster, but that can irk even, you know, those moderate Democrats, so he's got to be careful. But look, Biden has surprised everyone so far, right? To go back to the campaign, Joe Biden was too old.

He was too moderate. He was Sleepy Joe and he just got the biggest relief package in memory out the door. We underestimated Trump in a variety of ways. I mean, it could be that people have underestimated Biden because he's, I mean, it's still very early days, right? But he got stuff done. And so that's to his credit. In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem.

Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. Talk to me a little bit more about some of the issues he's facing in his own party. You know, you mentioned

that he'll come up against other Democrats as well. And I know that this is already happening when he moved on climate change. He used his executive authority to curb fossil fuel development on his first day in office. That's why I'm signing today an executive order to supercharge our administration's ambitious plan to confront the existential threat of climate change is an existential threat. And other Democrats haven't been so thrilled with this. And so how could they throw a wrench in this? that because he controls the House of Representatives, because technically speaking, he controls the Senate with, you know, it's tied, but Kamala Harris gives him the win,

and obviously they control the White House. And so therefore it's easy street. But it isn't. You know, there's all this talk about moderate Democrats. These are people that aren't necessarily, you know, 100% behind uber progressive legislation. And the reason for that is they got to get reelected themselves in states that aren't necessarily as progressive as, let's say, they are in California or New York or other sort of leftaning places. And those Democrats will vote against Joe Biden. And so that's the tension, right? Joe Biden has to find a way to satisfy those on the, what you would call the far left, and those in the middle in his own party. You know, they don't whip votes on Capitol Hill the way we do on Parliament Hill. You don't have to stand by the leader. And Joe Biden knows that.

It's a problem for every president, right? There's no guarantee that everybody in your party is going to vote for you. And the whole idea is for those, you know, from those politicians is to make sure their people in their states, you know, are satisfied. You know, Paul, I would love to get your thoughts on this. You know, as we've talked about, COVID has put this magnifying glass up to inequities. And as you mentioned, you know, the stimulus bill is very popular among Americans. And do you think that that's a good gamble by the Republicans that people will sort of forget about this once COVID is over? Or do you think that there has been an actual shift here in attitudes from

many Americans and that they do want more ambitious policies aimed at addressing these inequalities? I think most Americans want change on a number of issues in this country. want change on a number of issues in this country. And that includes, for example, progress, real progress on fighting climate change, real progress on the racial divide, real progress on gun control. If you look at almost any poll on any of those three issues, for example, and you'll find a wide majority of Americans are in favor of change that bafflingly to so many people still meets with resistance on Capitol Hill. That speaks to lobbying by special interests on any of those issues. Well, certainly on climate change and gun control. And I think, you know, I think Americans are frustrated with that. And I think that was borne out in the 2020 election when they, you know, had a chance to vote for normalcy was part of the

billing with Biden. Will they forget about what the Biden administration is doing for them right now when they go to the polling stations two years from now in the midterms or four years from now at the next presidential? I don't know. And it has bedeviled administration after administration on what direction to push this country

and how far to push it and how fast. All right, Paul Hunter, thank you so much for this conversation, as always. My pleasure, Jamie. All right. So before we go today, drug maker AstraZeneca has responded to news that authorities in Denmark, Norway and Iceland have suspended the use of the vaccine over blood clotting issues. Austria stopped using a batch of AstraZeneca shots last week while investigating a death from coagulation disorder. Ireland has also suspended the vaccine out of, quote, an abundance of caution. Canada has not suspended the vaccine.

The drugmaker said in a statement that after a careful review of all available safety data of more than 17 million people vaccinated in the European Union and the UK, the vaccine has shown no evidence of an increased risk of blood clotting issues. That's all for today. I'm Jamie Poisson. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow.