Front Burner - Is Trump any closer to ending the war in Ukraine?

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

Over the last few days, US President Donald Trump has hosted a series of high-stakes talks to further the effort to end the war in Ukraine.First, on Friday, there was the summit in Alaska — Russian president Vladimir Putin’s first time in the US in nearly 20 years. Then on Monday, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky arrived at the White House for his first time since his brutal confrontation with Trump in February. This time, he was accompanied by a group of European leaders, including French president Emmanuel Macron, UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer and German Chancellor Friedrich Merz.Land swaps and security guarantees were all discussed — but are we any closer to actually seeing an end to the war in Ukraine? What is Ukraine being asked to give up in exchange for peace? And where do things stand with the war now? We’re joined by Francis Farrell, reporter with The Kyiv Independent. For transcripts of Front Burner, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/frontburner/transcripts

You know, shopping for a car should be exciting, not exhausting, and that's where Car Gurus comes in. They have advanced search tools, unbiased deal ratings, and price history, so you know a great deal when you see one. It's no wonder Car Gurus is the number one rated car shopping app in Canada on the Apple app and Google Play, according to AppFollow. Buy your next car today with Car Gurus and make sure your big deal is the best deal at car gurus.ca. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S.ca.cair-Gurus.cai. This is a CBC podcast. Hi, I'm Jonathan Mopozy, filling in for Jamie Poisson.

Over the last few days, U.S. President Donald Trump has hosted a CERALDINE. series of high-stakes talks to further the effort to end the war in Ukraine. First, on Friday, there was the summit in Alaska. Russian President Vladimir Putin was invited onto American soil to discuss a possible ceasefire. He received a warm welcome. Again, Mr. President, I'd like to thank you very much. And we'll speak to you very soon and probably see you again very soon. Next time in Moscow.

Oh, that's an interesting one. I don't know, I'll get a little heat on that one, but I'll get a little heat on that one. I could see it possibly happening. Then yesterday, Ukrainian President Vlomir Zelensky arrived at the White House for his first time since his brutal confrontation with Trump in February. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III.

You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. And this time, Zelensky showed up with his major European allies and things seem to go more smoothly. But I believe a peace agreement at the end of all of this is something that's very attainable and it can be done in the near future. But are we any closer to actually seeing an end to the war in Ukraine?

What is Ukraine being asked to give up in exchange for peace? And where do things stand with the war now? I'm joined today by Francis Farrell, a reporter at the Kiev Independent, who's been watching all this from near the front lines in eastern Ukraine. Well, Francis, thanks so much for staying up late and agreeing to talk with us. Yeah, good to be here. Hello from eastern Ukraine. I want to start by talking about the U.S. Russia summit that happened in Alaska on Friday.

Now, heading into that summit, Donald Trump had threatened, quote, severe consequences for Putin if he failed to agree to a ceasefire. But once the summit came, there was like barely any mention of a ceasefire. So what did come out of that summit on Friday? Yeah, it's a good place to start, actually, because you're very right. We felt this rhetoric from Trump in the weeks leading up to the summit really turn against Russia and really back Ukraine. It seemed like the man had finally come around to the understanding that Russia was the main barrier to peace. The main reason the killing was continuing. But 5,000 Russian and Ukrainian kids a week are dying.

And that's not mentioning the people that are dying. Also in towns where, you know, he's lobbying missiles, he's got to make a deal. It's too many people are dying for no reason whatsoever. So you would think, based on common sense, you would think he'd want to make a deal. We'll find out. And that was the result of a huge amount of effort across many months from European leaders, from, you know, Ukraine, which had bounced back pretty well diplomatically after the Oval Office meeting in February, you know, focusing on this idea of a ceasefire, even if that, you know,

didn't mean immediately a sustainable peace for Ukraine, but just really, you know, getting Trump on board. And, you know, in that context, the idea of Trump, in theory, meeting Putin, wasn't necessarily a horrible thing, almost. It needed to happen for Russia to stop, but Trump needed to come into that meeting with that very strong conviction. And instead, we saw the opposite. We saw that, you know, after Whitkoff's meeting and after, you know, Putin very cleverly, I would say, readjusting his demands to include handing over the rest of one. rather than four, and promising that that could be a peace deal ready to go, not just a ceasefire, but a complete peace deal.

You know, and some smart flattery here and there, proposal of a meeting, a big, kind of a big showy meeting. That was enough, unfortunately, for Trump to seemingly forget about all the effort that had been put in over the last months, forget about a ceasefire. He was obviously seemed very cheerful at the opportunity to bring Putin to Alaska. Vladimir Putin hasn't just been brought in from the cold. He's been given the warmest of welcomes, just watching the images of Donald Trump clapping as President Putin was walking towards him. Donald Trump clearly couldn't wait for that handshake.

And then we saw the very warm handshake patting on the arm, patting on the hand, the walk down the red carpet, the two men getting into the limousine together. And coming out of it, the rhetoric changed. It was suddenly that, you know, going against all these ideas of a ceasefire, the idea of severe consequences, as you mentioned, completely went out the window, and it was a real setback. You know, people say there were no results from that Alaska meeting, but the result was, you know, Trump doing a bit of a 180 and forgetting about the ceasefire, forgetting about

consequences, and instead basically seeming to plan to bring Putin's demands, which remain completely unacceptable for Ukraine, back to Ukraine, and threaten Zelensky that he has to agree with it or else. He was just writing on social media in the last little while and said President Zelensky of Ukraine can end the war with Russia immediately if he wants to or he can continue to fight. Remember how it started. No getting back Obama. given Crimea 12 years ago without a shot being fired. And no going into NATO by Ukraine. Some

things never change. Big day at the White House. And then, you know, so over the weekend, Trump seems to pick up on this, on this demand by Putin for territorial concessions. And that seemed to put a lot of pressure on Zelensky heading into Monday's meeting in Washington. How do you read that situation? Like what was Zelensky entering into when he walked into the White House today? Yeah, I cannot imagine how daunting it must have been for him. I was commenting to a colleague today that him sitting in that chair at the Oval Office with a very similar setup just must have given him PTSD. It's important, I think, you know, now moving from the Alaska Summit to,

what's going on in Washington with Zelensky and the European leaders, it's important to understand that at least I think in the view of those who see what's going on in this war, including myself, is that this is not yet a real peace process. What is going on at the moment is a competition between Europe and Ukraine on one hand and Russia, on the other hand, a battle for Trump's final decision, which is between two very unattractive options in his mind. On one hand, he could understand that, again, Russia is the biggest barrier to peace. Russia will only stop when they feel pressure, when they feel like they need to stop because they inherently want so much more of Ukraine. They want to.

end the idea of a strong independent sovereign democratic Ukraine. And he needs to take active steps, economic pressure, rushing more aid to Ukraine, saying the right things on the political stage to get Putin to even consider stopping, whereas Russia is very happy to play for time. They want to turn Trump, of course, against Ukraine and the Europeans at every stage. of the way. They want him to cut Ukraine off. But they're also happy with him stepping away quietly from the process. And they're also even happy with what's going on now, which is this kind of merry-go-round of listening to Ukraine, listening to Europe, then going back and listening

to Russia again, talking a lot, but not achieving anything while Russia advances on the battlefield. Let's talk a bit more about the meeting Monday in Washington between Trump and Zelensky. Now, and just to timestamp our conversation, we're talking a little after 4 p.m. Eastern, so the meetings are still ongoing, as you said, Francis. This is the first time that the two leaders have met in Washington since that outburst. in the Oval Office in February. This time, Zelensky showed up in Washington with a group of European allies,

including French President Emmanuel Macron, UK Prime Minister Kira Starrmer, and German Chancellor Friedrich Mears. What difference do you think that made showing up in Washington with a group of European allies? I think it makes a huge difference. I think, you know, again,

the level of patience and the level of coordination and the real smartness of the diplomacy from the Europeans, with everyone kind of playing their own role from Macron and Stama, who have said the right things to Alexander Stubb from Finland, who likes to play golf with Trump and speak to him on that level, to NATO Secretary General Ruta, who just flatters him at every occasion and called him Daddy at one point. They've had a vague fight, like two kids in a school,

yard. You know, they fight like hell. You can't stop them. Let them fight for about two, three minutes. Then it's easier to stop them. And then daddy has to sometimes do strong language. You have to use strong language. Every once in a while, you have to use a certain word. They've all worked so hard for this. And now their presence means a lot. It means that it's too much, it's too much weight, it's too much diplomatic weight for for Trump to to be able to almost violently, like, turn on Ukraine as, as he did back in February. It still doesn't mean they can push through another 180 and another positive outcome.

But I think Trump is probably feeling a bit boxed in at the moment in the sense that he loves, he loves the attention, he loves the flattering from every single party in this. and he is not ready to take the active steps to ruin those relations with either side. It felt easy back in Ukraine where Zelensky was a small man with no cards and no suit back in February, and it was easy to embarrass him and shout him down. But with all of this European presence, he can't do that. You mentioned theater and earlier, Francis, you mentioned the office. optics of the Alaska summit, I want to get your take, if you can, you know, even because we don't

know yet really what the outcome of the meetings are at this stage. We do have some images, though. We have images of Zelensky in the Oval Office wearing different attire than we're accustomed to seeing him. He gave a letter to Trump from his wife, Elena Zelenska, a letter meant for the American First Lady, Melania Trump, there seemed to be some level of joviality of laughing. How would you decipher the optics coming out of the White House at this stage? You know, when I was thinking about optics, I was looking more closely at the way Trump was reacting to the Europeans when they talked about different things. You know, he was always very happy to hear the flattering words, but any time, whether it was Mertz or Macron, tried to point

towards a ceasefire, you know, mentioned the importance of a ceasefire first and a peace deal later, which was the whole plan that Trump had been on board with, you could see him kind of turn away, kind of frown, you know, I think with the understanding that, yeah, for that he needs to actually step in, play an active role, put pressure on Russia, and that's the last thing. he really feels like doing at this point. So we'll see if anything comes out of it. I think it's important to identify what was actually being brought up in the, even the public kind of roundtable with the Europeans.

You could see that everyone was very careful with what they were saying. Yes, they mentioned the ceasefire. Yes, they stood up for the importance of that. But at the same time, you know, they were really focused on praising Trump for wanting to organize a trilateral meeting with Putin and Zelensky. And President Trump will try to organize such meeting and he said that he will come or not come. Ukraine will be happy if you will participate. If you both want me there, I will be there.

Yeah, thank you. And I think this is very important. Which is very interesting to see if Russia will agree to that. They haven't really said anything about that while Zelensky has said he's up for it. But not only that, but now focusing on this resurgence of the topic of security guarantees. So they're taking the lead. They're taking Trump's lead, trying to keep him on board, not really focusing as much on the ceasefire. They heard America mention security guarantees.

Okay, that's great. Whether it's realistically possible or not is another question. What would those security guarantees that are being discussed, what would they look like? What would that entail? It's a great question, and it's an especially interesting question after security guarantees haven't actually been on the table for months, because from the Ukrainian, the European side, the focus has been on the ceasefire. And now suddenly, when Trump has been brought around by Putin, to the idea that, no, we need to sign a

complete peace deal now, suddenly they're back on the table, I think, because of the understanding that they were one of Ukraine's main demands. It's important, I think, here, not to speak in vague terms about negotiating peace, freezing lines, seating territory, but instead about a simple idea that for peace to be achieved in the short term, Russia needs to stop, but for peace to hold in the long term, Russia needs to have a good reason not to invade again because we know that the full-scale invasion started with an attack on Kiev and plans to take Odessa and Harkiv and other big Ukrainian cities, maybe even the whole lot. So it needs to be something pretty serious to deter Russia from attacking again. They've militarized their whole country, their economy, their training

young generations for war. And so what could these be? And from the start, Ukraine has focused on NATO membership, which makes sense. These are the strongest security guarantees that Ukraine could possibly have, Article 5. But Trump has said, including just this morning, I believe, on truth social, that that wasn't going to happen. There's also been talk of European boots on the ground. That's what the coalition of the willing was initially founded to discuss. But in a way, that's also a bit of a delusion in the sense that European boots on the ground would be a strong deterrence against a Russian second invasion. But for that, Russia needs to agree to stop in the first place, for that ceasefire to happen.

And they have said very openly that there's no way they will accept European boots on the ground as part of a ceasefire. And so what we've got in place of those things is something that is so far extremely vague and probably not really grounded in reality. You know, parts of the US team have mentioned Article 5 style guarantees that are not actually backed on paper

by the US and by Europe, but that sounds like something similar to the Budapest's memorandum signed, including by Russia and by the U.S. in 1994, where all parties signed a piece of paper respecting Ukraine's territorial sovereignty. And sure enough, that piece of paper meant absolutely nothing when Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 and then the full-scale invasion in 2022. You know, shopping for a car should be exciting, not exhausting.

And that's where Car Gurus comes in. They have advanced search tools, unbiased deal ratings, and price history. So you know a great deal when you see one. It's no wonder Car Gurus is the number one rated car shopping app in Canada on the Apple app and Google Play, according to AppFollow. Buy your next car today with Car Gurus and make sure your big deal is the best deal

at Cargooros.ca. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S-C-A. Car-Gurus.cai. At Dejardin Insurance, we put the care in taking care of business, your business to be exact. Our agents take the time to understand your company

so you get the right coverage at the right price. Whether you rent out your building, represent a condo corporation, or own a cleaning company, We make insurance easy to understand so you can focus on the big stuff, like your small business. Get insurance that's really big on care.

Find an agent today at Dejardin.com slash business coverage. I want to spend a bit of time talking about the territorial concessions that apparently Putin has proposed to Trump over the weekend. What regions is Russia eyeing and why do they consider them so valuable? Yeah, so until now, including through months of failed peace talks that never got anywhere, Russia's minimum demands remained the Ukrainian withdrawal from all of four regions, which Russia illegally annexed or claimed way back in September 22, They conducted these sham referendums at gunpoint in regions that they didn't even fully control.

And since then, these regions are now in the Russian constitution as parts of Russia. And that was the minimal demand that Ukraine would leave all of these regions, recognize them in Russia as Russian. And this included huge territory populated by still millions of people living in a free Ukraine. This included territory on the western bank of the Nipro River, which Ukraine liberated. back in 2022. So Luhansk region in the Far East, he already basically, Russia already basically completely occupies. And then there's the key one where I was today, Dernetsk region, where Ukraine still holds

about 25 to 30 percent of that territory. About 250,000 people are still living here, large cities, some of them striving. And in that way, Putin has seemingly conceded, seemingly reduced his demand, seemingly showed how willing he is for peace in Trump's mind. And if Ukraine will only just hand over this tiny parcel of land in this one region, then that's it. There can be peace. Russia's ready. But in actual fact, this still amounts to capitulation for Ukraine. Firstly, on a constitutional level, it's not possible, according to the Ukrainian constitution,

on a moral level, because we're talking about the handover of hundreds of thousands of people into Russian occupation with the torture, the police state, the deportation of children that comes with that. On a military level, Russia has been moving forward, but this is still a huge amount of territory with big cities that Russia would lose huge amounts of people and equipment trying to take and just handing it over would leave the rest of Ukraine defenseless against a new Russian push. And all this, in exchange for what? In exchange for a promise that Russia will not go further.

And so, you know, it's very tempting in the theater, of peace, I think, in Trump's mind. But here on the ground, here in Ukraine, it's completely unacceptable. And I can say with pretty strong confidence that if, you know, the country's behind Zelensky now and really hoping he will represent the country as best as possible at these negotiations, if he were to decide in a moment to hand over all this land into Russian occupation the country would explode in the there would be unrest there would be calls of of betrayal of capitulation because that is what it would be the military has been in a very difficult fight they understand that it's not getting easier but having you know lost so many

people fighting for these these fields these cities in eastern Ukraine just handing over the rest of it is something that they simply would not stand for you know you were out there on the front lines quite recently, I think up until today, even Francis. How closely are the troops out there following what's happening in Washington and Alaska? Are they pinning any hopes on these talks? Yeah, it's an interesting question. And I must say I've seen an uptick of foreign media teams out here in eastern Ukraine in recent weeks, and especially in the last week, asking this exact question, getting that sound bite out of the soldiers. But in reality, you know, they see it in a very different light than we do. Of course, there is nothing they want

more than peace than the ability to go home to their families. And in most cases, return to civilian life. They are exhausted from many years of full-scale war. But at the same time, they understand that for now there is no other alternative than to keep up this fight, because if they let go, then they could lose everything, their whole country. And when it comes to watching the peace talks themselves, you know, those who are perhaps a little bit more vulnerable to the emotions of the news cycle might really get their hopes up, but most people have this very laconic understanding. they say we see absolutely no evidence of Russia intending to stop any time soon.

They're going forward with more momentum. They're advancing their tactics. And if we don't hold them here, then they'll eventually come to wherever my home is, whether that's central, southern, even western Ukraine. That understanding remains pretty clear. Francis, thanks again so much for coming on the show. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. That's all for today. I'm Jonathan Mopensi, in for Jamie Poisson. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

For more CBC Podcasts, go to cBC.ca slash podcasts.