Front Burner - Life under lockdown in Shanghai

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

For weeks, most of Shanghai’s 26 million residents haven’t been able to leave their apartments, due to a strict lockdown meant to curb a massive COVID-19 outbreak. There have been reports of food and medicine shortages, of unsanitary conditions in the city’s giant quarantine facilities, and of authorities forcibly separating parents from children who test positive. All of which is leading to rare public displays of anger against the government. Today, Reuters reporter Engen Tham joins us to explain what life has been like in Shanghai, why China is sticking to its “dynamic zero COVID” strategy, and where things could go from here.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hi, I'm Allie Jaynes, in for Jamie Poisson. So last week, a man in Shanghai shot this video of people screaming from the windows and balconies of their high-rise apartments, which they were banned from leaving, even for essentials like food and water. Another video circulated on Chinese social media of a drone flying between buildings,

broadcasting a woman's voice telling residents to comply with COVID measures. Control your desire for freedom, she says. Do not open the windows to sing. Like many places in the world, Shanghai is dealing with its highest COVID case counts ever, fueled by the spread of the Omicron BA.2 variant. But unlike most places in the world, the city is maintaining a strict COVID zero policy, which, since March 28th,

has meant extreme lockdowns. Well, if you think Wuhan 2020 was bad, welcome to Shanghai 2022. This has been like no other lockdown. First, for four days in the eastern half of the city, Pudong. Then in the western half, Puxi. Then, last week, as cases continued to explode, the government locked down all of Shanghai's 26 million residents. There have been reports of shortages of food, water and medicine, of unsanitary conditions in the city's giant centralized quarantine facilities,

and of authorities forcibly separating parents from children when they test positive, which is all causing some rare displays of public anger against the authorities. On Monday, city officials announced that the lockdowns would be eased in some areas. But for most residents of China's most populous city, when they'll actually be able to leave their homes, remains completely unclear. Today, I'm speaking to Angin Tam, a Reuters reporter in Shanghai, about what's been happening in the city, why China is sticking to its zero COVID strategy, and where things could for being here.

You're welcome. It's my pleasure. So for starters, I just want to understand what these lockdowns over the past couple of weeks have actually looked like. Like when we say people have been banned from leaving their homes, what does that actually mean? So, I mean, there are very different levels of lockdown here now in Shanghai. So, you know, most of us now, we cannot leave our apartment. So other than to go downstairs for testing, and some of this testing happens inside the compound some of the testing happens outside the compound but most of the time we're restricted to being in our apartment but more recently there's been a couple of incidences where people have been sealed into their actual apartments and this is not widespread but it's the case that in certain districts within Shanghai

you know people have woken up to find sort of metal chain across their door or to find like a piece of paper stuck across their door so they can't actually leave. You shut in, there's like a paper barrier keeping you from exiting, going to the food market where you are right now? It's a piece of paper.

Yeah, well, for one, the food market's not even open. The folks who work at the food market are also locked down. But yeah, I can't go outside that door. There's a seal. If I do, physically I could do it, but I would break the seal. And there's repercussions for that. You have to have a community worker escort you to pick up food deliveries,

if you're lucky enough to get them, and to get the government distributions if they happen to come. It's bizarre. I mean, what does that mean in a practical sense for, you know, how people have been able to get things like food or bottled water or medicine? So that has been a major, major challenge for a lot of people here. Some of the large compounds with people who are more well-organized, they've organized people within the compound to kind

of volunteer on a voluntary basis to distribute food when it comes so a lot of them have been group buying but for people in small lane houses or people who live in a block of flats where there are not that many families it becomes virtually impossible so and even then, even for larger group compounds, sometimes they make a large order for bread or they make a large order for rice or some vegetables and it just doesn't turn up because the logistics fails or communication fails and people just don't get their food. It's not so much that there's not enough food in the city,

it's not having enough delivery drivers to get it to people. So the food might be in warehouses, but it's not getting perhaps one or two kilometres down the road to people's doorsteps. That's because all the normal delivery drivers are, by and large, locked down at home. So most of the time people are waking up in the morning and they're relying on apps and what what you do is you wake up at 5 or 5 30 in the morning and then you put a bunch of groceries into a shopping basket online and then you wait until a certain time and then you just like repeatedly click on the buy button but the thing is so I you know

sometimes people do manage to purchase gifts individually for themselves but it's actually really really rare you know I spoke to a friend today who said one of her friends was so hungry that despite the lockdown you know like you really can't go out of your house you know so there's very very strict rules in place but her friend was so hungry that he just you know he just ran out of his flat to look for food because he was so hungry can i ask what the lockdown has been like for you and for your family so i'm one of the lucky few. So I live in the western part of Shanghai. We went into lockdown later than the eastern part of Shanghai. So I actually had a couple of days to prepare. You know, I was walking around Costco with huge slice size of beef over my shoulders

and I'm relatively small. So I got quite a lot of looks. But's been you know I really stocked up but there are certain things you can't stock up on we completely ran out of fruit after a couple of days and for five days I was on those apps like trying to buy some of the fruit and I really wasn't able to so we were down to like one apple and you know me my husband my mom um you know we were all just like we should really just leave the apple for my son because you know he's he's a three-year-old and he needs the vitamins so that's not something that you would ever anticipate facing yeah as you know like especially in somewhere like Shanghai where you normally have access to like absolutely everything or at least most people do. Yeah, absolutely.

This week, city officials announced that they would be easing some of the lockdowns. What does that actually look like in practice um yeah so they sent out a list with three different categories of compound and each category had varying restrictions on the freedom of movement so the most restrictive is you're locked back in your apartment and you can't go out and the second was slightly more free and then the third you supposedly could leave your compound and then walk around in your most immediate area so it was determined that my compound for example was on that list I was told that list. I was told that this morning.

I was told, oh, you can now go to the park, which is just opposite our building. So obviously we're super, super excited. You know, my son is three years old, you know, and it's just been a little bit difficult with him sort of cooped up in the apartment. I can imagine. And so I was told that we were all ready and we were all wearing you know our outdoor clothes prepared to go out for this big event and then we were told actually no

can't go anymore you know it also happened to other people i know where yesterday for example they were told they could go out so they went out did some shopping and then in the morning they got up and were told they could no longer go out. So I feel like the whole easing is a little bit of a mirage for most people. And am I correct in understanding that basically if you're a compound or if you're, I guess, what Chong has called prevention areas, or if the area that you live in has one positive case, that it could be locked down again for two weeks, no matter what? Yeah, you're absolutely right. So like if they're in your compound, if one person gets it, then your lockdown is of the strictest level.

So you're not allowed to leave your apartment for additional 14 days from the day that the person was diagnosed. And so, you know, in some of my friends compounds in Pudong, you know, these are compounds with hundreds and hundreds of people with each building with like, you know, many, many floors. So every single time you have a new diagnosis the clock starts again so it's set up in a way that can mean that you will be quarantined for a very very long time so I mean that's what life has been like like for people who are at home in various stages of lockdown. These are people who haven't tested positive. What happens if you do test positive? So if you do test positive, you will get a call from someone who works for the health authorities.

And then you'll be told within a short period of time that you have to leave your flat. So at the moment, you know, every time my phone rings, like I get a heart attack because I'm like, oh, someone's going to call me and then just forcibly remove me from my family and my home. So then you get told you're taken away to a quarantine center now initially the quarantine centers were hotels so the conditions were actually you know fairly reasonable but now because of the flood of cases like there are thousands of new cases um every single. So now they have converted, you know, huge stadiums and exhibition halls and sometimes even like run down sheds and schools into quarantine centers. Dozens of quarantine centers have been set up to house those who test positive, including the majority who have mild or no symptoms.

including the majority who have mild or no symptoms. Videos circulating online show poor living conditions inside hastily constructed facilities. So, you know, there are the conditions in some of these places are very run down, unhygienic. You know, some people who I've spoken to who have been in there say, you know, it's inhumane. There's like, there are, you know, videos of some of the places where there's like rubbish everywhere. You know, there's seven toilets to hundreds of people. You know, there's no medication

given out. You're pretty much, you know, in the wild, apart from the fact that you're in the world with hundreds of other sick people. But, you know, there are also some instances of people from Shanghai being bussed out to nearby cities. There's actually, you know, footage of people being bussed out to Ningbo, for example, where the hotels are of five-star quality. So it's really the luck of the draw but you know there are instances where people are getting on buses and transferred from one horrific center to another horrific center to another horrific center so I obviously most of us are just incredibly fearful of getting

that call or getting COVID and I think you know most people would agree and I've spoken to a lot of Chinese people about this but most people are afraid of what happens to you if you get COVID, not COVID itself. Like the fear is not of the virus, the fear is the implementation of the policies surrounding the virus and where you might end up where you might end up stuck for like, you know, over a month. And I mean mean, you've reported too, in terms of these centres, you've reported on children who were being separated from their parents. Even in some cases, I guess, if both tested positive. Can you tell me about that?

Yeah. So initially what the government was doing was they were separating children from their parents forcibly if the child had COVID. And this is even if the parents had COVID as well. So I was reporting on it for a number of weeks. But then it actually came to light more when someone was circulating video footage of one of the centers and in that center it's like you know there were three babies to a bed one baby had like cloth over its face you know the crying toddlers walking up rooms and we were able to verify that footage and that caused a huge uproar,

as you can imagine, because it's just such a violation. You know, some psychologists have like stood up and spoken about this and they're like, you know, some of the kids have come back. They have nightmares, you know, they're just crying all the time. You know, they won't leave the side of their mother. So as you can see, you know, they won't leave the side of their mother. So as you can see, you know, there's a huge uproar because it has such a huge, hugely damaging effect on both the children and the parents. You know, in some instances, you know, the parent would be

calling the hospital, they wouldn't hear about their child for hours and hours on end. And you've got to bear in mind their child is sick, you know, and they're really young. So this is children as young as like three months, like two years, three years, four years, you know, and it's just, it's horrific. And I mean, I understand that last week after a widespread outcry about this policy, Shanghai authorities relaxed this a little bit.

To make exceptions for kids needing special care under the condition that the parents wear masks and dine at a different time than their children. For children with special needs, we're accepting applications from their guardians, who, with a full knowledge of potential health risks, can accompany their children after signing a letter of commitment. But it's still happening at some level, right? Yeah, it is. I mean, so that's been a really great thing, is that they are, to some extent, listening to what people have to say.

They relaxed the rules rules and then they said positive parents could accompany positive children. This is all happening in the Dragon's Den. A simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization. Empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. through Angel Investment and Industry Connections. That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples.

the world are dealing with Omicron breakouts in a really different way. Like here in Canada, for example, virtually all provincial COVID rules have been lifted. You know, a lot of experts have said that at this point, like with all the vaccinations we have, with treatments, antiviral treatments we have, they no longer feel that, you know, really severe restrictions like this are worth it. But why do analysts think that the Shanghai government is still pursuing this really restrictive zero COVID strategy at this point? I mean, I think an example of why they might be still pursuing the strategy is Hong Kong, because Hong Kong had quite a high death rate, especially among the elderly in elderly care homes. And currently in China, the vaccination rate for over 60s is around 80%.

And so I think they fear that the cost, the human cost, would be too severe a burden to bear. The government is defending its heavy-handed approach. The dynamic zero-COVID policy does not seek zero infection. It aims to discover and hold infections to prevent a large-scale resurgence. This is a scientific approach, and if we can make good use of it... And also that their health facilities would not be able to shoulder that sort of cost should elderly people get COVID. I mean, something that I have found really shocking when reading up on this story,

actually, is that as far as I can tell, the Chinese government doesn't have a mandatory vaccination policy, the Chinese government doesn't have a mandatory vaccination policy, which, considering how willing they've been to impose these really severe lockdown policies, I just found really surprising. I mean, has that, you know, has mandatory vaccination even been talked about, like as a possible option? I mean, it's definitely not a national mandatory vaccination system right now. At the moment, it's still by choice. I mean, the government has been attempting to encourage people to vaccinate. So they're giving out, you know, bags of rice or other forms of incentive to encourage the elderly to vaccinate.

But, you know, analysts have commented that it has been a little while since Wuhan in 2020. And that it would really, really help the country to be vaccinating elderly people as a matter of priority. I mean, I saw a report from Bloomberg from March 18th that at that time at least said only 51% of Chinese people aged 80 and over have received like two or more doses of a COVID vaccine, which like compared to Canada, for example, you know, 99% of Canadians in that age group are vaccinated and like 89% of the overall population in China is vaccinated. So they're way lower than other groups, which I find shocking. But I mean, throughout the pandemic, President Xi Jinping has really touted the successes of China's, what they call the dynamic zero COVID strategy.

And until recently, it did seem to be containing the virus really well. But, you know, now the country's seeing more than, I think, 25,000 new cases a day, which, I mean, I should just note that's relatively low compared to a lot of countries. But for context, China's reported less than 100 new cases a day for most of the pandemic. So, I mean, clearly the COVID zero strategy isn't working to contain the virus as well as it used to. So what have we heard from officials about why they're still sticking to that policy? I think, you know, what the officials are still saying is they are maintaining that it's still too dangerous for the population for it to be allowed to run free. You know, they are still maintaining that the position that they're taking is correct

and that the costs are worth it for the benefit of the population at large, even though there has been discontent about the implementation at a local level. I mean, prior to these Shanghai lockdowns, what sense do you have of how much public support there was for these policies? I think prior to the Shanghai lockdown, there's actually a lot of support because, you know, people could move around China freely. There's very little disruption in Shanghai. And the government did a really, really good job of actually keeping COVID at bay.

So, you know, we were out eating when my friends in London, for example, were locked down. They couldn't see their families. So initially there was a lot of support. And actually, I think that the actual zero COVID policy and its implementation actually did really encourage support among the general populace for the government. Like I feel there's increased patriotism and support for the government. and support for the government but now I think that because of Omicron and how transmissible it is and the quarantine centers the child separation you know the lack of emergency care for people with very serious ailments like cancer dialysis for certain patients who need it there's definitely more people saying that,

you know, questioning the policy and questioning whether it should change. I mean, I found it quite striking actually seeing some of the, what seem like really open expressions of anger with these policies and with authorities, you know, at least in Shanghai. I mean, we started this episode with that video of people screaming from their balconies. But, like, I've seen, you know, social media posts of people expressing a lot of anger. I've seen videos reported in some places of, you know,

people protesting in the streets. People in Shanghai are losing their patience with the city's strict coronavirus lockdown. Videos posted on social media show residents protesting against restrictions on their freedom and complaining about poor access to food and essential services for the elderly. How rare is it to see this much public outcry against what the government is doing in China? I mean, so, you know, I've been here for almost a decade now. And in the entire time I've been here, like I've never seen this level of discontent.

I have never seen public protest. I have never seen people circulating so much anti-government rhetoric. But even then, you know, even now, there is a crackdown on circulation of this kind of material. So very often, you know, something will be posted at night only for it to disappear in the morning. So the government sentiment is still very much maintain social stability. And of course, any sort of protest would undermine that. Mm hmm. And just finally, I mean, most scientists at this point agree that COVID is here to stay in some form or another, which, of course, runs in really direct contradiction to a COVID zero policy.

Is there any indication of how authorities, whether in Shanghai or across China, are going to resolve that contradiction? Not at the moment. So, I mean, there are outbreaks happening now all over the country. There's one very small area in Beijing, which has been locked down, you know, and earlier this year, Shenzhen, which is a very large city, was locked down. And now there are reports of Suzhou,

which is a very small city outside of Shanghai. There are reports of panic buying there and shopping centres being shut down. So it's obviously here in the country. And I mean, I suppose they could keep shutting down the cities as the numbers go up. But I mean, that has a very serious impact on the economy. So it's a question of how they weigh that up. But they haven't provided a very clear framework on how they're going to move forward at the moment it's still very adamantly zero COVID.

Ang and Tam thank you so much I know it's it's late there and you have to get up early to yet again try to get more groceries so I really really appreciate it. Sure I'll talk to you later. One more bit of news before we go today. The U.S. has also ordered all non-emergency consular staff and their families to leave Shanghai because of the COVID outbreak. The State Department also advised all Americans in the city to have, quote, a sufficient supply of money, medication, food, and other necessities for your family in the event of sudden restrictions or quarantine. That's all for today. I'm Allie Janes, and for Jamie, who will be back tomorrow, thanks so much for listening.