Front Burner - Lifting the Leafs’ losing curse

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

In a record-breaking 2021-22 NHL season, Toronto Maple Leafs superstar Auston Matthews scored more goals than any other Leaf in history, and the team finished with more wins than in any other season. But for some fans, those accomplishments will only make the loss even more painful if the Leafs can’t succeed in the playoffs. The Leafs haven’t won the Stanley Cup since 1967, and haven’t won a single playoff series since 2004. Toronto is now tied 1-1 in its first-round series against the defending Cup champions, the Tampa Bay Lightning, after one decisive win and one wildly uneven loss. Today, a staple of the Maple Leafs fandom joins us to explain the modern history of Leafs losses, and why his growing frustration has given way to greater optimism than ever. Steven Glynn — better known as Steve Dangle — is the host of a podcast, Sportsnet live streams and a YouTube channel that’s been reacting to the Leafs for 15 seasons.

In the Dragon's Den, a simple pitch can lead to a life-changing connection. Watch new episodes of Dragon's Den free on CBC Gem. Brought to you in part by National Angel Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. This is a CBC Podcast. Hey, I'm Jamie Presson. Well, it's spring again. And as any Toronto hockey fan can tell you,

spring is the time of year the Leafs fall. Memories of excellence on ice. Memories now faded, almost forgotten. And in their place, mediocrity. Are you disappointed in the Leafs? Not really. Why is that? I didn't have great expectations for them in the first place. This report about the Toronto Maple Leafs sounds like it could be from last year or really any other year going back decades. But it's actually from 1984. any other year going back decades. But it's actually from 1984.

The Leafs didn't make the playoffs and fans were lamenting this 17 years without a Stanley Cup victory. A few weeks ago, a group of Toronto hockey fans, so frustrated by their team's performance, formed the We Hate the Leafs fan club. We're going to trade the entire team to the Soviet Union for the Soviet team. We're going to call them the Toronto Mollie Leafs.

Little Leafs in Russian, I think it's kind of neat. Well, it's been 55 years now without a Toronto Cup, the longest-running championship drought in the NHL. These days, the Leafs make the playoffs regularly and suffer routine humiliation. In the series, empty net, Tyler Toffoli scores, and it's 3-0 Montreal, and they'll punch their ticket to Winnipeg. humiliation. But stop me if you've heard this one. This year is supposed to be different. The Leafs lit up back-to-back cup champions Tampa Bay 5-0 in game one of their first round series. game one of their first round series. At a Toronto bar called Toby's, a man dedicated his karaoke performance to Leafs assistant captain Austin Matthews and sang this.

You're just too good to be true. Can't take my eyes off of you. But Wednesday night, the Leafs failed to complete a comeback in a 5-3 loss. And they're going to take the series back to Tampa Bay. Dead even. For some Leaf fans, this cycle of excitement and regret is getting unbearable. And even fans' famous willingness to believe the Cups coming every year is being tested. Why should I? Why should I pay attention to detail when the team I watch is a Toronto Maple Leafs?

Existence is an embarrassment! So today we're talking to a staple of Leafs culture. A guy who hundreds of thousands of fans have watched yell about the Leafs going back 15 seasons now. have watched Yell About the Leafs going back 15 seasons now. Stephen Glynn is better known as Steve Dangle, the name that's on his hockey podcast, YouTube channel, and Sportsnet livestreams. I love you baby And if it's quite alright I need you baby

To warm the lonely night I love you baby Trust in me when I say. Hey, Steve, it's great to have you. It's great to have you, Stephen Glenn. It was nice to be introduced that way. I felt like I was in trouble, though. I felt like I was back in school.

So let's start with the question that everyone wants to know the answer to, even if most of the country wants the answer to be no. Are the Leafs going to win the Stanley Cup this year? Yeah. Yeah, they are. And here's the thing. I don't care about anyone listening to this podcast who hates the Leafs. You think you hate the Leafs?

I cheer for them. I'm a Leafs fan. I hate them way more than you ever could. And I never say they're going to win the cup, but I just, I have this funny feeling this year. I had a vision. I think it's going to happen. Tell me a bit about this vision. Oh, it's very vivid. I was walking in Oshawa where i live pause for laughter how dare you oshawa's a lovely place uh but it was a beautiful sunny day i was walking my dog iggy who is named after jerome mcginla who assisted on the gold medal winning goal in vancouver when sydney crosby wanted the puck, he shouted Iggy. My dog is a golden doodle, golden goal. It goes together perfectly. And I was just thinking about how much last year hurt, how much that series lost to Montreal hurt, how much it damaged the psyche of this Leafs fan base and me, frankly.

And I was thinking about how I would handle it if it happened again this year. And then I just had this vision of me live on broadcast, because we do a broadcast on Sportsnet's YouTube channel for every game. And it's the Stanley Cup final, and I'm celebrating a Leaf win. And I'm in tears because I can't believe it. And I've never had that vision before. It's always, you know, them crying on the bench, tail tucked between their legs.

They lose 5-1. It's always to Boston. Leafs lose 5-1 in Game 7 to the Boston Bruins. To the Boston Bruins. To the Boston Bruins. To the Boston Bruins. You couldn't even let me have the fact that it was 4-1. You had to make a 5-1 with a second left. You couldn't even let me have the fact that it was funny.

I don't know why in the dreams it's always to Boston. The biggest house in Oshawa belongs to my therapist. But this year, I see it going the Leafs way. I don't want to be a downer here but like uh can you understand why a leafs win sounds crazy to so much of the country uh wednesday night they they took a pretty hard loss of course oh listen absolutely again no one could possibly hate the leafs more than than leafs fans uh, you know, no one knows the failure more. And

over the last 15 years, I've become an encyclopedia on them. And I remember them all in alarming detail. And let me tell you, I wish I didn't. I wish I couldn't. So take me through some of those moments now. Help me do the history here. They haven't won the Cup since 1967, but they haven't won a playoff series since 2004.

So what have been the most painful playoff losses for you to watch? Well, even going back to 2004, I remember at the 2004 All-Star Game in the shooting accuracy competition, Jeremy Roenick went four for four on the targets. And I remember getting this funny feeling in the moment. I go, that guy's going to ruin the Leafs somehow. Sure enough, in their second round series in 2004, Jeremy Roenick, game six in Toronto in overtime, snipes it.

And here's Roenick, giving it to him, and with a body, Roenick with a pass. Roenick to Shea, he's down! He's down! Jeremy Roenick's down! Little did we know, be the beginning of over a decade of torment. I was in Maple Leaf Square for Game 7 in 2013. Heartbreak for a young team that pushed the Bruins to the limit.

In fact, had a 4-1 lead in the third period of Game 7. I was there when they blew that lead. I was there when they lost in overtime. But for the Matthews and Marner era, for the next generation, it's gotten worse year after year after year I was at game six in 2017 when they lost to the Capitals and the Leafs weren't supposed to be there they weren't even supposed to be in the playoffs and they were playing with house money the whole time fans cheered and and uh gave them a standing ovation as they left the ice after their season had been ended. Because the feeling was this is only going up from here.

2018 against the Boston Bruins. They're down 3-1 in the series. They come back. They're leading, heading into the third period. Kasperi Kapanen scores arguably the most beautiful goal of his career. Now there's a foot race. Kapanen trying to get position on Marchand. Kapanen alone scores!

And guess what? They blow another third period lead to the Boston Bruins. 2019. Arguably, the tables have turned. The Leafs play in the Bruins again, but the Leafs, I would say, are favored in this series. They look like the better team in this series. They have like the better team in this series.

They have a 3-2 series lead. History repeats itself. The Boston Bruins beat the Toronto Maple Leafs in Game 7 again. They blow a chance to win it on home ice, and then they play their worst game of the series against Boston. Just before the pandemic, the Leafs lose to one of their own employees in net by the name of David Ayers. Last night, 42-year-old David Ayers, a married father of three with a day job, made his NHL debut. The Toronto Maple Leafs were facing the Carolina Hurricanes

and Ayers was the emergency backup goalie on site. In the second period, the emergency came. The Hurricanes, up 3-1, were suddenly down their two goalies with injuries, and Ayers was called in. And then there's a shutdown. We trick ourselves into thinking somehow this team is going to, you know, come out of this as a new team. They lose to Columbus. They blow a 3-0 lead.

They overcome a 3-0 deficit just to let us down in game five. They're hot, then they're cold. They're yes, then they're no. They're all the things Katy Perry warned us about. And then last year against the Montreal Canadiens, that was the most traumatic of all. Because what I kept saying, I looked at the whole big picture and I went, I don't know what I'd change.

I think this is the best team they've put together in a long time. Obviously, you know, something horrible happens to John Tavares. But they start writing this magnificent story where they overcome the odds. And after losing game one, through all of that, they win three straight. Game four is this immaculate work of art for nothing victory. And I don't know why they lost the next three games, but they sure did. Yeah.

Two comebacks that were for not followed by game seven. Once again, being their worst game of the series. They lose game seven. And so you come here to watch me freak out. You come here to watch me lose it. Right? That's what you're here for. You're here to watch me lose it and you're here for answers.

What is wrong with this team? Last year, this was a... Is that agonizing enough for you? It is. I can hear it in your voice. is that agonizing enough for you it is i can hear it in your voice it it it is agonizing and and like do you think it's fair to say that it's become a lot harder for fans to swallow these these losses in recent years than previously the montreal one was bad what we saw last year was a leaf team that dominated the Canadian division and basically the conclusion that I came away with after losing to Montreal and the conclusion that a lot of fans came away with is oh so the regular season just doesn't matter

like there's no point watching um last year was a 56 game. Then for the first time in two years, we get to prepare for a full 82-game season. And for the first couple months, it was difficult for myself and I'm sure difficult for a lot of Leaf fans to talk themselves into watching this team 82 times just for it to potentially not matter when the playoffs roll around. Yeah. Yeah. Fans are excited again now, though, like really excited. The crowds at Scotiabank were going wild in game one. Even Coach Sheldon Keefe commented on it. So what do you think it is about Leafs fans that allows them to like suffer these really gutting losses and question the point of this whole thing

and then keep getting excited for the playoffs the next year? Ah, I think Leaf fans have this terrible reputation throughout the league. And I mean, listen, there's more of us than any other fan base. You're going to get good. You're going to get bad. It doesn't surprise me that the bad sticks out.

But I mean, when you think about it, aren't we the most adorable bunch of puppy dogs in in the entire league in and in sports the fact that we're still here you know the the fact that we still have this optimism no matter how many times we throw a temper tantrum and say i'm never coming back we always come back you know give the Leafs credit this season they gave fans a reason to believe I after last year I don't think fans would necessarily be back and ready to believe in this team winning had the team not look so good um they look even better than last year and just as luck would have it as fate would have it as as cruel Leaf fan fate would have it. They get to take on the back-to-back reigning Stanley Cup champions

in the first round. It's like facing the final boss in a video game on level one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a tough one. I'm going to go. Capital Organization, empowering Canada's entrepreneurs through angel investment and industry connections. Hi, it's Ramit Sethi here. You may have seen my money show on Netflix. I've been talking about money for 20 years. I've talked to millions of people and I have some startling numbers to share with you. Did you know that of the people I speak to, 50% of them do not know their own household income? That's not a typo. 50%. That's because money is confusing. In my new book and podcast, Money for Couples, I help you and your partner create a

financial vision together. To listen to this podcast, just search for Money for Couples. I want to talk to you about why you think this team could win this year. But first, why do you think it is that the Leafs have not been able to eke out a cup here? I've heard explanations like the Leafs fans put way too much pressure on the players to win or that the franchise is always insanely profitable. So they have no incentive to win a cup. And what do you make of those arguments? Yeah, I think both those arguments stink. And I wish people would stop making them because first of all, there's too

much pressure as opposed to the tremendously easy careers of Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Tom Brady, Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, all these greats from all these other sports. Gretzky won four cups, and no one ever wrote about him. No one ever interviewed him. He wasn't in any commercials, was never asked for an autograph ever in his entire career what on earth are people talking about with the pressure it's impossible

to dismiss it outright like last year in game six we saw a very visibly nervous mitch marner who thankfully is off to a good start in the series against Tampa. Pressure is definitely a thing in professional sports, but the idea that it is stronger here in Toronto is bizarre. Are Raptors fans not some of the most passionate in the entire NBA? Yes. And the Raptors found a way to get through it. The other narrative of, well, they don't need to be. Yeah, people will go anyways.

Yeah, people will go anyway they'll spend more are you all joking me yes okay let's pretend it's the unsinkable ship and and they make money anyway they'll make exponentially more well tickets are already three hundred dollars there'll be a thousand there'll be be 2000 for the Stanley Cup final. People will be willing to remortgage their house. They'll go into financial peril to be there. I've already told my wife I will be one of them. If the Leafs go to the Stanley Cup final,

which would involve me quitting my job, by the way, I wouldn't, you know, I have to cover these games, but no, sorry for the Stanley Cup final. I'm blowing it all off and i gotta go i'm sure your wife is thrilled about that yeah and my boss is finding this out live no you'll have to you'll have to like padlock my house in oshawa to to get me to not show up to this thing oh man oh yeah the the Leafs are satisfied with only making some money if there's one thing that rich corporations are known for, it's settling for some money instead of more. If it's not that the franchise is profitable no matter what, and if it's not the fans putting so much pressure on the players, what is it then? You know, people talk about the Leafs being literally cursed after 1967 when player Larry Hillman hexed the team over like a salary dispute.

Well, I cursed them because I had won four Stanley Cups with Tommy Beliefs in six years and felt I deserved to give a pay raise. I said, until I get paid, I'll just leave the curse on them until they pay me. Why can't they win? I think this is where the psychological torture comes into it. I'm glad we're getting to the root of the issue.

For a number of years, like with the introduction of the salary cap, we have reduced the disparities between team payrolls to a level that should not make a competitive difference. Each team has a hard salary cap. There's an individual player salary cap. No player can make more than a certain percentage of what the cap is when he signs his contract. And then there's a rookie. The Leafs were very poorly prepared for that adjustment. Heading into the 2004 lockout, they were going for it.

They were spending all the money. They were an old team. They were getting rid of draft picks. They were getting rid of prospects. So they were in a bad place. They were ill-equipped for the salary cap era and lo and behold they didn't make the playoffs for nearly a decade and i don't think that's a curse i think that's pure ineptitude they weren't very good at running

a hockey team um and there were many years where we tricked ourselves into thinking they were okay the truth of the matter is we weren't used to the Leafs being bad. Used to them not winning, sure. Like not winning the championship. But the 2014, 3, 2, 1, 2000, even 99, when they go out and they get Curtis Joseph. That was a beautiful age of Leafs hockey. They won a number of playoff series, overtime winners, deep runs. They went to the conference final in the, in the final four twice.

We were not used to seeing this team this bad. And it took a while for the Leafs organization to figure it out. And what I think they learned in that process, ironically to the last question, is that fans spent less money on a team that was crap. Fans spent less money on a team that was perennially in the basement. And the worst thing you can be in the National Hockey League

and the worst thing you can be in sports is bad by accident. The Leafs were bad by accident a lot. When they were bad on purpose, when they were tanking to get better draft picks that gave birth to Mitch Marner and Austin Matthews, fans were on board for that. They understood that. It was the years before where they were bad by accident that it was brutal. It's just been these past two or three years where this young core was supposed to sort of be coming into their own. It's only in the last couple years you can talk about a potential curse, them feeling cursed. Last year against Montreal, certainly felt cursed. All the years before it, it just kind of felt like they were bad.

So then tell me why this year will be different. A lot of recent Stanley Cup winners did not win the Stanley Cup until they weren't supposed to the tampa bay lightning included they were supposed to win the stanley cup in 2019 first game against the columbus blue jackets that year they leave the first period up three nothing they are the definition of fat and happy. Guess what? Blue Jackets come back, win that game, sweep the series one, two, three, four. The Tampa Bay Lightning are humiliated. They're getting made fun of at the NHL awards for winning all the individual awards, but not winning a single playoff game. Shout out to my Tampa folks.

They tied the most wins in a regular season with 62. And then they followed it up by tying the least wins in a regular season with 62 and then they followed it up by tying the least wins in a playoff with zero but hey that's what i like about them win or lose they set records the lightning have not lost a round since so is it so far-fetched that this team that hasn't won a playoff series in its current iteration would beat the back-to-back Stanley Cup champions? It's hockey. This is the most ridiculous sport in the entire world,

and we love it for it. Why not this year? And so, and I know you don't want to, I know that you don't want to think about this, but just before we go today, like, what if they don't want to think about this but just before we go today like what if they don't win you know what do you think happens to the leafs fan base well the leafs are going to win but for for this thought process i'll i'll humor you this is going to be a tough one like i don't envy this management group again fans like to think they have all the answers many times over the years i've had all the answers in my humble opinion you know this year i don't know what i

would do like let's say the least play a hard-fought seven game series against the reigning stanley cup champions that they lose by one goal oh boy that's it's a tough decision to blow up that entire roster because of one lousy goal it really does feel like with Marner's 97 point season with Matthews and his 60 goal season the first in Leafs history it sure does feel like not only are they playing their best hockey right now, but their best hockey is also ahead of them. But again, this is why this is just me humoring you. This is a thought exercise. They're not going to happen. It's not going to happen.

It's not going to happen. And so just look, like, you know, you're such a huge fan. I've seen the heart monitor that you wear when you watch the games. Tell me what it would mean to you if the leafs win a stanley cup man oh man i think oh boy probably be the happiest summer in my life i would have zero bad days ever and it'd be nice just um for a little bit of social media spring cleaning like no more 1967 jokes you know sweep all of those out it's just i want to be able to look back at positive memories and not have to go yeah but they lost like bat flip with jose batista so good that's so good the kawaii shot is this the tiger

well the kawaii shot's interesting because i remember that going in and seeing that famous photo afterwards of you know kawaii in the in the full squat waiting to see if the ball goes in and i remember being like this could be one of the most iconic photos in toronto sports history but they have to win because if if i see them win but it's before a loss i'm gonna i'm gonna remember the win and then i'm gonna remember the loss i don't want to remember the loss i want a completely untainted championship run with a happy ending. Wouldn't it be nice Leafs Nation for a happy ending? Oh, I hope you get it, man. I hope you get it. Um, thank you so much for this, Steve. This is great. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, that is all for this week. Front Burner is brought to you by CBC News and CBC Podcasts. Our producers are Simi Bassi, Imogen Burchard, Andrea Balmare, Ali Jain, Sam Connick, Katie Toth, and Derek Vanderwyk. Our sound design this week was by Mackenzie Cameron, Noor Dean Korane, and Sam McNulty. Joseph Shabison wrote our music. The executive producer of Front Burner is Nick McKay-Blocos. And I'm Jamie Poisson. Have a great weekend, and we'll talk to cbc.ca slash podcasts.